This is the second advertising post I’ve seen on lemmy and they were both today. I’m wondering how other people feel about it or if they’ve even seen posts like this?
Personally I’m livid and hate seeing it here. One of the things that attracts me to lemmy is the donation based, volunteer run, distributed, open access nature of it. I don’t want it to become profit driven and I really don’t want to see companies in what I belive should be a purely social endeavour. I really think making it profit driven will ruin it, if that means it stays smaller then I’m okay with that.
Now I know I can block them and move on which is what I’ve done. I’m also pleased to say that both posts I saw were heavily downvoted and I did my part too.
I’m curious if other people agree with me and don’t want advertising like this on lemmy? Also, what do people think we can actually do about it if we don’t want it around? Petition instance admins to ban advertising accounts? Then how do we define one? Can anything actually be done or do I just have to block and move on from a possibly ever increasing flow of advertising until I get bored and move on?
Sorry for the long rambling post and thanks if you read this far.
Companies will company, if there’s an open door to spam things they will. SPAM in the email realm I recall seeing a stat that it accounts for somewhere around 90%+ of email traffic, so thus all the crazy hurdles of ip lists, dkim, spf, etc.
I’ve seen accounts created on Mastodon for just that purpose. They get a warning that such is not the platform’s purpose, if ignored into the ban bucket they go. The problem is it’s easy to create accounts unless the admins want to manually review and approve every applicant. External IP blocks work to an extent, but are always going to be reactive in nature getting banned after they’ve been reported. Ce’st la’vie (or however it’s spelled)
If there’s a plus side to it, their presence here means that someone thinks the network reach is enough to be worth the effort to post something here to get some kind of return.
This is kind of how I thought it might be. Due to the way it all works I don’t think we can really do much about it and will just have to adjust I guess.
Honestly if money has to be a part of it I would rather just pay some instance maintainer a monthly/yearly fee.
Thanks for answering. What are you paying them for? To keep it clear of advertising, so bannning advertising accounts? Or something else? What about accounts on other instances, paying your instance owner won’t affect them?
You can already donate to your instance, and should if you can afford it 😊
Do you guys recommend that instance owners publish their monthly costs somewhere, vs donations earned? That could help ensuring instances are kept away from RC Cola® sponsored adverts.
Some do.
I would suggest that you censor the spammer’s company name in the screen shot. They want to have more exposure and they don’t deserve any.
Thank you! I didn’t think of that, changed it now.
I know ads are against the rules of sh.itjust.works, idk if Lemmy.world has similar rules
I saw a couple from instances with no posts this morning so I just added those instances to my instance’s block list. I don’t mind corporate accounts being on Lemmy, I do mind them posting straight up ads.
Rules are only as effective as the mechanisms enforcing them - I don’t think anyone wants ads on Lemmy instances, but removal requires moderation tools and staff (volunteer or otherwise) to review everything that’s posted.
I imagine the problem we’ll see is as growth accelerates, post velocity will outpace moderation manpower - short version, you’re always going to have to do some blocking/filtering of your own.
If it’s against the rules and people report them, then they just go through and block them as they go. I don’t think it’s a huge deal.
A report has to be reviewed for accuracy, there’s still time and resources required. It’s not as simple as just blocking every post or user that has a report submitted against them. People abuse report systems all the time.
I see your point, but I don’t think it’s at a point where it would be hard to do right now. Add mods in the future.
Sure, it’s manageable now, but it quickly won’t be if Lemmy continues to grow the way it currently is. “Add mods in the future” is kind of a hand-wave of the problem, which is that you need mods who are:
- fair and responsible
- willing to dedicate (potentially large) amounts of time and energy to moderating
- willing to moderate for free
That disqualifies a large swath of people from moderation.
Now of course, it’s possible and it’s happened before, Reddit has a huge number of dedicated unpaid mods and it’s because of them Reddit was able to grow to the platform it was.
But it’s a little more complex than “throw more people at the problem” when you need people who are incentivized by something other than payment.
The unfortunate problem is that once you remove money from the equation, power is the closest great incentivizer. And power hungry mods are bad mods.
Reddit has been doing all of this for awhile, I don’t think it’s as much as a problem as you’re making out. I’ve never seen an ad? This is the first one and it was posted.
Still better than “you’re always going to have to do some blocking/filtering of your own.” 🤷🏿♂️
Wrongly blocking people simply because a report was submitted against them, even if it’s unsubstantiated, is better than users having to do some proactive blocking/filtering?
Re-read our conversation while I ask myself if you’re arguing in bad faith, 312,.
What a shitty response to a valid question. I’ll make this easy and just block you so we can end this here.
Ideally like the nsfw option I would like a sponsored tag to filter on. Even a tickbox to avoid sponsored stuff like the hide bot posts.
I feel like “sponsored” implies that Lemmy (be it instance admins or any platform devs) are getting something out of it, which I don’t think is the case. Right now if advertisers are signing up and posting ads i see that as no different than junk mail in my email inbox. It’s garbage that benefits no one at best and actively harms the platform at worst.
And if Lemmy does decide to take advertiser dollars, they better step carefully. That’s one of the places the slippery slope fallacy actually does apply. I do NOT want the fediverse to turn into Reddit 2.0
Lemmy doesn’t have to take a cut for it to be classified as a sponsored post.
Think about YouTube with their contains sponsored content tags in videos. YT takes no cuts from hello fresh or Nord VPN being advertised in a video. YT only gets money from the ads they roll.
Yeah, that’s a good point. But in that example there’s at least a relationship between advertiser and content creator. The content creator is showing their audience an ad in return for money from the sponsor.
Anyone advertising on lemmy right now is just getting free ad space. There’s no relationship between the advertiser and the platform/content creator. They don’t give the platform money for better servers, nor do they give creators money to create engaging content. They’re more akin to a parasite than anything of benefit.
I refuse to watch/read/hear any kind of adds.
One of the reasons why reddit app is trash.
Personally I think advertisements should be banned.
Brought to you by Carl’s Jr.
Why do you keeps saying that?
'Cause they pay me every time I do.
You are an unfit shitposter. Your memes will be placed in the custody of Carl’s Jr.
Have a good life.
We fully agree, and in support of your community, we pledge to never advertise in this space.
- Hardees
I like the way /r/3DPrinting handled ads. Their mods put it like this,
“It’s okay for a Redditor to have a business and share it. It’s not okay for a business to have a Reddit account and do the same.”
Basically, does that account contribute to the community outside of their business? If so, I don’t take issue with it.
“It’s okay for a Redditor to have a business and share it. It’s not okay for a business to have a Reddit account and do the same.”
That distinction is so minor it’s useless. I block all people who post dumb shit, regardless of whether they’re a business or not.
At least there are no “sponsored” posts that can’t be blocked or downvoted. That’s the real problem. If Taco Bell wants to post “dank memes”, let them. Just don’t sticky the post so it survives based on the voting. I block the meme communities anyway.
I think when redittors give a product as a solution to a genuine problem asked about in the forums, (like use xyz software to handle your abc issue), that’s an advertisement as well and one we can all agree with having.
Maybe, and that’s a very distant maybe, if you have a solution that you know would interest people in a specific group, (like some car part deal in a car enthusiastic group), that can be put out there.
In any case, the general courtesy of mentioning your use case (owner, developer or just a user) of the product should be followed.
That’s fine, but if someone is making something actually interesting for a community I don’t see any reason why they shouldn’t be able to share it, provided that’s not the only reason they’re around. That gets harder to moderate, but if we’re talking “perfect world”, that’s what I would want.
See, I’m okay with a business having an account and offering assistance. They should not advertise or proselytize, though I think a basic announcement of a new product is in a gray area.
But how can you trust that their advice or assistance is genuine and not just subtle marketing?
I mean, it fixes the problem someone asks about or it doesn’t. If the ownership is transparent I don’t see much issue. If you ask a question about the print speed of PLA+ at 205C on a PrusaXL and @BambuOfficial replies that it’s 200mm/s (and it’s wrong) but their Carbon prints at 500mm/s, then they get DV’ed and the mod determines if they’re being a little bitch about things. Its a bit like open source - if there’s enough eyes and enough participation, someone will note the correction and flag the post as malicious/advertising/assholerly.
If @JosefPrusa replies that it’s 250mm/s currently and the next firmware that is getting released in a month will include adaptive heat profiling for 275mm/s, that’s both useful information and marketing…and probably a welcome official response from a manufacturer.
I do see your point, but I can also see how the account could be used to manipulate the consumer too, which makes me wary.
You could take that to a logical extreme and have companies providing valid product solutions to user problems, while conveniently making it seem like their product is the best choice or deal, while purposefully obfuscating or omitting other products that are actually a better choice, or even just a better choice depending on the user.
Ideally, a neutral user involved in the industry or hobby being asked about would offer general best purchasing advice based on their experience through a willingness to help people like them.
A company would have an extremely apparent incentive to only promote their products, and perhaps even leave out potential issues or caveats with their products since it’d reduce likelihood of a sale.
Again, this is all worst case, and not to say that doesn’t already happen by concealing the company rep behind a seemingly anonymous user account, but allowing companies to dilute advice with monetary incentives seems a slippery slope.
I should’ve just not typed all of this and said: conflict of interest
That’s a great example of a business taking part in the community. If they go out of their way to be helpful like that, which costs the money, I’m okay with them trying to recoup a little bit through the goodwill they put in.
Ugh, fuck ads
If you’re asking me, I’m banning all advertisers and karma-fishers on the spot.
Out of sight, out of mind.
As the instance rules? So if anyone posts an advertising post the account is banned? Or each person blocking and moving on?
I like it a lot better than the Reddit ads with locked comments
I think you have a good point. I’m not gonna generally lambaste a business/ad in the comments, but I’d like for the option to be there as a possible feedback mechanism. Bans aren’t the only tool.
Eh, I’m not 100% against them. There’s a time and a place for ads. If a 3d printer company wants to have an account, post they have a new 3d printer, and it’s in a 3d printing company, that’s an ad, but I want that one. 3d printing filament manufacturer having a sale on filament? I want that ad bc I wanna get that cheap filament. Random driving service in an unrelated community? Block and move on.
I don’t think it’ll get too bad because there’s no automated ads here. All ads/posts are manual, AFAIK. (I’m sure someone will figure out how to automate it.) If it does get too bad, then there should be something more, sure, but it’s not there yet.
I disagree, ads should be pull not push media. If I want to buy something I go to the different manufacturers website and pull all the information from them and then decide what I want to buy. I don’t need them to shove it into my face for the other 364 days of the year.
Advertising in General? F that noise.
This is a moderation problem, it should be fixed with moderation.
Every community should have rules and they should be followed.
Start with no OOC advertisements. You have a 3d printing forum and Bamboo is releasing a new printer? Maybe let them make a single post on announcement asking for what people thing and one more when it releases.
If advertisements start to happen too often, new rule of personal endorsements only with bans as a consequence.
We still need moderation tools like timed bans and shadow bans.
