- cross-posted to:
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- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
You can’t get rid of it, you can only hide it: Microsoft imposes controversial Windows Backup on users::Like it or not, the Windows Backup app installed in Windows 10 and Windows 11 is here to stay, with Microsoft calling it a “system component” that can’t be
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MacOS has had time machine for over a decade.
How is this different except for the fact it’s not our Lord and Savior Linux?
I don’t remember Time Machine backing up to someone else’s server.
iCloud does, and if memory serves you can’t remove that either. But like iCloud, you can simply not sign in.
You can always finely control what goes into iCloud and what does not.
Time Machine backups have to be opted-in if you want to save it to iCloud.
You have to enable iCloud to upload to it. I’ve been uploading to local encrypted disks for years
So the same thing here.
Who cares? Windows has included a backup app of some sort since NT. The only way this is more than click bait would be if they were forcing you to use it.
I have not used it nor have I seen prompts for it yet. But if it follows their usual pattern it’ll be very in-your-face about it and give every indication there is no choice but to use it which will be the same as required or forced for most users. It’s evil/deceitful practice in my opinion. I’m irritated every time Microsoft teams updates I have to disable and block it with Simple Wall firewall app.
It’s definitely not in your face. I’ve been using Windows 11 in some fashion ever since it was released, and I didn’t even know there was a backup app. I just ran it now to look at it, and it’s pretty tame. It syncs app installs from the Windows Store (which you don’t even need to use ever) and some settings like accessibility. I’ve long since removed OneDrive, which is what it looks as if the backup app uses to sync folders, so it’s disabled for me.
I’m not sure the backup app even does anything on it’s own, really. It seems like it’s just displaying some settings from other apps in a central location. 🤷♂️ This seems like a non story to me.
OneDrive integration in Windows reality pisses me off. I shouldn’t have to do so much modification to windows to get it to stop starting up. But then again I have some crazy bad luck when it comes to computers. I’ve worked in computers for almost 3 decades and no one reports having issues like I do. My colleagues admit that I may be cursed. Either way I think windows is pushing things a bit too much. No one should have to modify the registry or have to go through command line/powershell just to stop being nagged. The last few times I have gone into the task manager and disabled them on start up they get turned on again after Microsoft pushes an update hence why I’m using the simple wall firewall app. What is a non story for you just might not be for others. And that could be a simple thing like you being in a different update channel. I’m not sure but I think updates can also be affected by your location/geography data. Either way I don’t doubt I’m going to be shamed and told I’m a fool so…
It’s nothing like the old backup apps. They were useful this is more forced cloud spyware which at this point is the entire OS now
forced cloud spyware which at this point is the entire OS now
Apart from the entire OS is spyware
Does it automatically back things up, even if you don’t have a Microsoft account or turn it on? That wasn’t clear from the article. If it’s just a feature that a user can choose to use or not, how is it any different than anything else in Windows, or any other OS, that may or may not be used by the user?
Does it automatically back things up, even if you don’t have a Microsoft account or turn it on?
It’s optional as most things in Windows. Also if you do not use MS account where would backup be stored, how would you restore it? :)
Here are more reputable sources:
Have not used it myself, but I think most if not all of this was already available through Settings so it’s nothing new. LazyAdmin article seems to state the same.
“Reputable.”
You mean sponsored.
No, meant reputable, because 1st one is MS article and those 2 others are blogs that I have read in the past and have not had much issues with their content (also I skimmed through them)
So OP’s article is clickbait nonsense. Got it.
Maybe I should write an article titled, “Windows Has a ‘Registry’ of All the Details of Your System and They Won’t Let You Delete It,” then watch people go crazy complaining about the decades old Windows Registry.
(I guess you can delete the registry… but not if you want a functional system)
Wow that’s where you draw the line? Exfiltration! Fuck me.
I draw the line at anticompetitive design and leverage system as an excuse with all this spyware is just more indicators from Microsoft that they can’t compete in an open market.
Linux is a real alternative now to Windows with proton kick some serious ass for gamers. There isn’t a whole lot missing now from the good distros now. It’s time to start showing enterprises just how good Linux is and how that bottom line improves vastly along with privacy without the risk of OS spyware AND rent charging.
You didn’t really answer the question on if it’s on by default or not. If it’s off by default, opt-in, and it’s clear what it’s doing… then it shouldn’t be stealing any data with inactive code just sitting there. And assuming they are blocking any 3rd party backup software, aggressively pushing their backup in the OS, or doing anything like they, I don’t see the anticompetitive argument.
Cool story.
To quote Nutella himself “Defaults are the only thing that matter”.
You got to love all the ads that are now a part of windows
So? Sure you can’t get rid of it but also you don’t have to use it.
Despite what this article is trying to imply you’re not actually forced to do any backups, so Microsoft are not seeing your information. Also it’s probably be encrypted anyway, but who knows.
You don’t have to use it, so this entire article is basically a big while load of nothing.
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People do have control over their devices You have the control to not use the application.
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Lemme guess. You’re against auto-updating, too?
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Yeah? Obviously? If they roll out a update that fucks up your computer you’re out of luck. Sure you should always have recent backups but it might be more time effective to wait till all the bugs are fixed.
Not even to mention that I should have the final say in what happens with a device that I brought and own.
Sick of auto updates fucking up your solution but too lazy to do your own backups? Boy howdy to I have the solution for you!
Why should I waste hard drive space that I paid for to store a component that I neither require nor utilize? If I’m already on a machine that is pretty close to my drive limitations (and I am), why should I simply accept further reduction in my computer’s capabilities?
This was the same argument Microsoft made about Internet Explorer during the antitrust lawsuit. Yet somehow, when faced with the possibility of a forced split, they managed to find a way.
By using Windows, you probably already opted in to these things from accepting their EULA. It’s a shitty practice, but it’s well within their purview.
It’s also well within the users purview to complain about it… Also for people to figure out how to rip it out of a system as well.
I’m not trying to claim they aren’t allowed to do it. The fact that it’s legal doesn’t make it right.
What’s in the EULA? That the software is installed, what are you complaining about exactly?
If you don’t use the software it’s irrelevant.
I’m not complaining about anything. I agree with you that it’s irrelevant, just turn it off
Realistically, you’re probably not utilizing a good 90% of your operating system’s features on Windows. Is this backup crap good? No, but it’s also a drop in a bucket.
Sure, but stuff like defrag, etc. are there for good reasons, and I’ll be glad to have them if I ever do need them. Onedrive and Backup are literally only there to make Microsoft money, and having them on my system will never be of benefit to me.
It might be a preview of whats coming though, MS would conceivably at some point move to a cloud based OS completely at some point
Pretty sure the next thing we’ll see after 11 is cloud desktop, judging by the scuttlebutt
thats their plan they’ve stated elsewhere.
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You should read EULA every once in a while.
“We will access, disclose and preserve personal data, including your content (such as the content of your emails, other private communications or files in private folders), when we have a good faith belief that doing so is necessary to”, for example, “protect their customers” or “enforce the terms governing the use of the services”.
With Windows10 you already accepted that they will collect and share data. What is good faith to them remains to be seen but as a rule of hand I don’t trust them for anything. In short, yes… Microsoft is seeing your information.
Spoken like a true Stockholm syndrome Windows user.
I’m sorry I don’t care about what you care about as much as you do.
coming soon: Monthly subscription to use windows with the justification that it uses an online service in order to work
It’s been a thing for years already for enterprises
Honestly I hope, would be a big boom for Linux which I already use
This year is the year of Linux, just like every year before it.
Probably an unpopular opinion, but I don’t see a problem with subscriptions for commercial software. Fixing bugs and security issues after release is an ongoing effort that costs money, so a one-time purchase isn’t really economically viable in the long run. I honestly wouldn’t feel comfortable using unmaintained software that might contain known but unfixed vulnerabilities.
As someone who advises on and implements software at work that would be sorta ok if these companies charging several thousand a year would actually fix bugs and provide proper support. Zendesk is a pretty big display of this: feature requests lay dormant in their support pages, the only way you can get support is through a chat where the rep will point you to an article you already read most of the time, updates that ever obfuscates settings into a dizzying amount of menus in the admin panel, and so on. All for a minimum of $55 a month per seat if you want email and calling. The issue is costs are sky high for practically no value
Have you checked how much money Microsoft have recently? Their current model doesn’t appear to be a problem for them.
You’re arguing a completely different point. Windows isn’t Microsoft’s only product by a long shot, so I don’t see how their money (whatever you mean by that, specifically) is the answer here. Also, every few years there’s a new Windows version which again costs money - almost like a subscription with bigger installments at longer intervals.
I can’t wait for the eventual warning pop-ups and emails, warning me that my onedrive is almost full (70%)
You can just say no to the tool and keep using whatever local backup you have.
You joke but this
ugh ew thin clients that probably will work even worse
what do you mean by this
do u think a cloud pc (with constant server costs) shouldnt be a monthly fee?
I think this is likely the “new only Windows option” in the not so distant future. I think it shouldn’t exist.
And what will be the host from which you will run Cloud PC? Linux, macOS?
What sick moronic idiot would want a cloud pc that’s accessible via… a pc
Their primary use is enterprise not private consumers. Think of virtualized OS accessible over internet that you can manage/protect and provide for example to some random consultant. Or just provide more powerful PC on low end HW.
It’s costly though and not sure it ever gained traction because there always were alternatives like Citrix Desktops.
Maybe there’s a use case, but I’m anti-cloud and always will be. I struggle to think of a situation I couldn’t do better with in-house (or even air gapped) VMs of my own.
Anyone who watches 365 uptime knows that Microsoft’s cloud is a fragile laughing stock. They use a Twitter account because their own status portal is so laughably trash and unreliable. If you don’t believe me I don’t blame you. Here it is.
The day I trust any cloud platform (Especially Microsoft) is the day I promise to jump off a cliff.
I have a confident guess about what Microsoft runs theirs on… it ain’t Windows.
I would say windows IoT would be the most likely to be prepackaged with new systems, since it’ll likely be a rolling changeover.
I’d expect that within 5 years that pretty much all home and business PCs running windows will be thin clients
Can’t imagine it being the case, thin clients have existed for a very long time and Cloud PC is nothing revolutionary just an additional offering from Microsoft.
Not to mention private consumers will not pay subscription for OS that in long run is a lot more expensive and worse HW that they probably already have.
Still $129 for the initial license key, too
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How dare they include a backup application! Monsters.
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How does Microsoft boot taste?
A lot like your mom’s pussy, weirdly enough, but with less hair and dogshit
And they say Apple fanboys are the most annoying
And they say Apple fanboys are the most annoying
Honestly, they often still are more annoying, IMO. After all, it’s not often that you see a Windows user being snobby about their OS, generally it’s just used by default because of work or it came with their PC and they haven’t bothered changing, or gaming.
Thankfully gaming on Linux is almost better than on Windows these days, it’s exciting to see!
If you’re a fanboy of any OS you’ve lost the plot
It’s not about including, it’s about forcing, my laptop still has an HDD and when that garbage dropped I kept my laptop idle (couldn’t use it since HDD usage was rocking 100%) for like 6 freaking hours, my HDD isn’t that empty either so I don’t know what the heck my PC was doing
Definitely Microsoft at fault here and not anything else
Use local accounts only and do not login to a Microsoft account.
Edit: In my situation, I used an MS account during a reinstall and disabled backups and logged out quickly after. There are methods to still do an offline install, from what I understand.
Disabling backup is annoying, but not hard.
You could also use Linux. I mean you’re starting to hack your machine just as much as a Linux user.
Is that possible on Windows 11?
Yes. When installing and it asks for your email address just use [email protected] then type anything in for the password. It will fail then you can enter a local account.
BRB, buying thankyou.com and enjoying my several million computers.
How many emails do you think contoso.com gets daily? I’ve used [email protected] hundreds of times for random shit that will get used for 5 minutes and never again
Yes. I had to do that on my latest reinstall. I had to create a local account after the install and log out of my MS account. It really tried to force backups, which is super annoying.
Is it still possible to install Winndows 11 without network connection? It was the optimal solution for local account Windows back in the day.
I quickly tried, but I gave up as I just needed the install done. It didn’t occur to me to pull the network cable as that may have worked. If I remember what I was reading at the time correctly, it will take a bit for the option to show to do an offline install if you don’t have a network connection. (I could be completely wrong on that! It’s been a couple of months already.)
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Yes it is, at least for now. Shift + f10 to open cmd in the OOBE, then “OOBE \BYPASSNRO”
You also can’t use a work or school account, according to Microsoft:
Important: You must use a personal Microsoft account with Windows Backup. Work or school Microsoft accounts won’t work.
There is also no way to use the backup app with local storage, like an external hard drive; you can ONLY back up to OneDrive with this.
EDITED to clarify: for now, you can still back up to another drive, but it’s a different process and the “advanced settings” needed to do so are buried several layers deep.
Holy shit. Just not “no” when it asks if you want to set up backup, and keep using what you already use.
It’s less difficult than falling over.
I consider everyone still using Windows by now to be masochists of the worst kind.
Who would want to have backups of important files on a Microsoft server? Probably located in the USA, where it’s contents are free game for the snooping agencies? If you are not a US citizen (and even that is no real protection) they will hoover every byte about you “just in case”.
Not masochists, just people with very different needs, privacy concerns and overall tech knowledge than you. Not sure why this is hard to understand by some folks.
Yep. The general “I don’t care what I’m doing” crowd. Serves them well that they simply ignore the facts steamrolling them.
I think you’re the one ignoring the fact that Windows is the right OS for some people. Everyone has different needs and limitations. There’s not one OS that is the right solution for everyone, just like there’s no Linux distribution that is right for everyone.
While it might be the right OS for some people, it is actually the worst choice for the majority. And I would say that for those people for whom it is the best choice, it just is for the wrong reasons.
From my personal perspective, the right way to steer people into Linux is to highlight the key features you feel are the best. You don’t need to say Windows is bad, only that Linux is amazing. If you just tell people they’re masochists and wrong they’ll just ignore you. Have a nice day!
I think most people prioritise feeding and sheltering themselves over spending time and energy on something that doesn’t really make sense to them.
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I’m waiting for the inevitable Lemmy comment from an engineer or sys admin that tells me to install Linux.
Well I’m neither of those. I’m not a tech bro and I don’t really understand computers well or what a tick tock does. I’m just an old dude who’s been using standard desktop stuff since windows 3.1 and DOS before that.
You should install Linux unless you absolutely need either commercial architecture software or Excel for specific things.
MS is the devil and windows sucks balls. I use windows on a work machine and it is objectively worse than most Linux flavours.
Start on Mint or KDE Neon if you’re coming from windows.
As they say, don’t knock it till you try it.
I mean you seem to understand the solution but keep doing it wrong anyway
Well, it is only consequential. I mean, the guys know.
Windows has fallen billions must install TempleOS
Well have you installed Linux yet?
Got it on some stuff in the house, but my daily driver another OS in the *nix family.
Same people who already use OneDrive since that’s all “backup” means here.
Yup. $100/year for all the office apps/programs plus 1TB of backup for all 6 people in my family. Decent deal IMO since I’m paying at least that for PS+ yearly.
And here is the CEO complaining that Google uses unfair policies to push it’s apps. Fuck both of them.
You can’t get rid of it, you can only hide it
Not exactly true, there are ways you can remove system components, what they really mean is that Microsoft Doesn’t want you to and will fight you as much as possible to prevent you from doing so. The biggest barrier in doing it is that you’ll have to figure out your way through it on your own because it’s “not supported” and most people won’t give help or support for these kinds of modifications.
I’ve been on Windows since 3.0 (not 3.1) and MS-DOS, back when DR-DOS was a thing and IBM’s OS/2 was a rising star, and the joke about how if operating systems were airlines, Linux would be the one where all the passengers bring parts and tools and build it on the runway themselves.
Oh, how the turns have tabled. Today, I installed Debian 12 with GNOME DE on an old 2010 MacBook, and then installed Budgie Desktop on top of that as an optional profile. It fucking screams on 13 year old hardware, lol. I’m not even done trying out all the distros and DEs I want to try out; that’s just one. When I’m done playing with that I’ll blow it away and install a different distro instead. And I didn’t pay a penny for any of them.
There is literally no reason for me to stay on the sick, bloated advertising delivery/data collection system that is Microsoft Windows.
I’ve grown up with windows (started with windows 95 in elementary school) and have been a Linux user since 2009. Watching windows decline and the Linux desktop grow and mature has been quite the ride. I’ve been distro-hopping for years and have finally settled on Debian Testing. It does exactly what I tell it to do. It helps me accomplish whatever task I’m doing and then gets out of the way.
Windows on the other hand is the polar opposite of that. Constantly nagging you to use OneDrive. New panels and “experiences” popping up out of nowhere. Unskippable OOBEs after a major update that force you to navigate some dark pattern if you have the audacity to resist using a Microsoft account. The telemetry that you know is running under the hood 24/7. Hands and knees begging you to use Edge to open PDFs?!?! Using windows today is like using Clippy - the operating system.
Linux has come such a long way, and outside of some proprietary edge cases, I can no longer imagine using Windows as a daily driver
Yes. When I first booted up Linux Mint – the first distro I had tried since Red Hat came on a dozen or so 3.5" floppies – I couldn’t believe it. I was expecting something a LOT less developed and shiny, but no – and Mint is one of the lighter ones. That’s why I’m trying so many, including ones I already know I won’t use as a daily driver, because they’re all fully fledged, completely operable computing environments.
If it hadn’t been for MS Office I’d have done this long before now, especially when I got into a mandatory-Windows-Upgrade-and-break loop a couple years ago. But I absolutely despise the newer Office versions; they seem to break more with each release. If I have to go back to older versions to run it on Linux, that’s just one more favor the FOSS community will be doing for me.
Clippy - the operating system.
Jfc, lol. At least Clippy wasn’t all up in my shorts and sending the data back to the mothership. Gotta ask, though, given your age: did you ever get to use Microsoft Bob? You probably don’t remember all the commercials; it was Faith Ford hawking MS Bob every time you turned on the tv. But using it, omfg. You boot up into a “living room.” I shit you not. MSBob was a . . . really fucking weird five minutes, lol.
All I’ve wanted for a decade is a built-in backup solution to rival Time Machine but noOOoooO…
I had OneDrive randomly dump a chunk of my files into the website Recycle Bin so I never touched it again. (Yes I know user error is the usual thought but I would have known about dragging multiple things from different folders since at the time all my photos, documents, etc were up there.)
File History I still use but that’s janky, occasionally crashes in the Settings (this is on multiple machines with W10, haven’t touched 11) and wouldn’t backup iCloud Drive. (which I’ve since dumped too since I have a glitch support hasn’t been able to fix that results in broken sync in iCloud for Windows and rapidly ballooning logs)
I’m wondering if it’s even backing up files or just saving to cloud which isn’t a backup.
I wouldnt call it backup. It is keeping versions of a file. Its keeping deleted files for a while, in the recycle bin. But you have to use the web interface to access those. Nor can you restore entire folders in one go, like File History could. File History works still, but one cant manually run the “delete all but the latest/last month/last year” job anymore. It just fails. The restore function works (well, I havent tested it after the new patch though).
Also, cloud copying the entire Documents folder? Theres so damn much crap and cache files put there. You gonna double your internet usage when playing some games, just for the cache files that is added, downloaded, changed, uploaded again and again. I’m glad I aint on a limit, but a lot of people in the rest of the world are.
This isn’t new
Seriously, look at the link. If you want to use an external drive, for example, or a different cloud account, it’s a different process and the settings are buried several layers deep.
If the new app were like the old versatile backup tool you picture here, there would be no issue.
Wait, really? I’m currently using my university account to back up some folders to OneDrive (provided by my University), and it saved my butt last November when my SSD borked out of nowhere.
That’s what it says. From the same link as above, just below Step 1:
Important: You must use a personal Microsoft account with Windows Backup. Work or school Microsoft accounts won’t work.
I think it’s because to restore you MUST sign in with the same account you backed up with; if you drop out or get fired, you probably won’t have access to that account again. They may also be throwing back any email address with .edu, though that seems a step too far. I haven’t tried, that’s just my guess: they don’t want angry users screaming at them when they can’t get their shit back down from the cloud.
AI generated porny chick
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Tbf that’s my favourite kind of AI generated person
Could be real but filtered and low res. The lack of symmetry on the nose is unusual for AI. The teeth do look a bit weird though.
The article lists it as generated by midjourney
