Somehow, I feel like the federated network is still centralized, because there is still censorship; it’s just distributed across more servers.
I mean, it definitely gives users more rights to free speech, and I’m not worried about privacy issues. However, the removal of content and the banning of accounts are things that are diminishing my passion for sharing my thoughts publicly(on reddit).
I just dont want this happened on here but I am seeing some…
If you start your own server, you moderate yourself.
Whether others want to federate with your server is up to them.
You can absolutely have free speech, but nobody is forced to actually listen to you.
Which is good, because in the real world, every place that has “zero censorship” rapidly devolves into a Nazi invested shithole.
Ya, I agree with you that no one is forced to actually listen to me, but removing content… I mean, I was spending a lot of time writing those and looking for replies, but they just remove it before anyone sees it… That sucks.
No one is required to host your content, spread your voice, give you a platform. You really need to stop using the term “freedom of speech” here. It means something totally different. Publisher won’t print your book? “Censorship!” This is what you sound like.
Okay okay, stop being so angry about it man, you know I am talking about ‘censorship’ when I say ‘fos’
They’re literally saying it’s not censorship. If a publisher doesn’t publish your book, is it censorship? No. Folks aren’t forced to host your content if they don’t want to.
Exactly, thank you. It’s neither an infringement of free speech nor censorship. None of us has any entitlement to amplification here. We participate by the good graces of the mods and admins.
(I think this dude is 14 and still thinking of everything as black and white, and also everything being about him)
They’re afraid of my raw power!
I am😂
What did you post that got removed?
But other people who are on my server might think the same way as I mentioned
You don’t need to allow other people on your server.
Well it’s yours so you get to decide. Go make your own platform and you can have all the freedom you want. But it always seems to be that folks want a share of someone else’s platform, and when they can’t get it, their freedom has been taken away. SMH
You should have spent time reading the rules of your server before spending time with writing your content. It doesn’t matter if others care or not. Someone has a wall and is letting you write on it. It’s their wall, not yours. They can make their own rules. You are free to have your own wall.
Start your own instance and community. Post whatever the hell you like.
Then other instances choose whether to defederate. They federate by default.
There is no single point of control (centralisation) which decides what is seen on all instances.
Censorship is also decentralised which means no single entity will be able to completely control the information, but that doesn’t mean you can do whatever you want without consequence of all the decentralised instances agreeing that particular information should not be shared. Decentralisation does not guarantee you an audience!
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Never heard about it
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I am too lazy to type out all these words, just see it for yourself.
Wiremin appears to be more for a chatroom with defined participants. Not really a public forum type of app. If it is supposed to be, it would suffer drastically from a growing userbase. It looks more like a messaging system with defined recipients.
Centralized vs decentralized is a structural decision.
Censorship is what can be done within that structure. Centralized censorship means one group is able to block content, whereas decentralized “censorship” means that you can go to another platform with little to no fuss.
I use quotations because censorship is when you censor someone and stop their message from being seen, which you cannot do in federation. No one is required to megaphone info or opinions they don’t want to share, so it’s not really censorship to block content on your own instance.
Run your own instance and federate with everybody.
Federation and “censorship” aren’t mutually exclusive?
Monero.town is very lax when it comes to moderation as long as you don’t say anything that could get you arrested in Germany.
What if I am in the US lol
If its a german instance they have to follow german law.
Just like if you’re an american living in germany. You don’t get to follow american law in germany. You have to abide by the local laws.
Take for example, the irish hosted lemmy defederated from another instance that allows posting … questionable/underage anime content. Its treated the same as CSAM under Irish law. Federating those instances would mean the admins of the irish instance would be liable for any data pulled over onto their instance.
This issue should be solved if you could just set lemmy to not cache federated NSFW images (without fully disabling NSFW on your instance) since then users would load the images from the remote server and not the homeserver.
But that also relies on posts being tagged correctly
True, guess not caching remote content at all should be an option as well. Then you can just block caching for every instance that doesn’t enforce proper tagging.
so… defederating. like is already happening
No, defederating would block all flow between instances. The problem is with hosting content that you don’t want to or arent allowed to host. Currently if I view a image from burggit, the image gets saved to the monero.town and then served whenever someone else views it from there, which is a problem. If instead every time someone wants to view that image, it gets pulled from burggit again, monero.town isn’t in trouble for hosting it anymore.
It’s not about freedom of speech (or by some peoples interpretation it would be more accurately called ‘anarchy of speech’). The need for moderation still exists just as the rights higher in the hierarchy of human rights still exist and need protection - especially from armchair anarchists.
Hey now, anarchists don’t deserve this slander. Moderation typically falls under freedom of association/disassociation, which we’re strongly in favor of. The people you have a problem with are the ones that think you should be forced to listen to them, which is pretty contrary to the anarchist ethos.
The great thing about this system though is that you can always create an account on your own instance, and interact with any instance that hasn’t been defederated from you.
I am not quite understand it, can you maybe explain a bit? Thx
You can create your own Lemmy or Kbin server just for you and post whatever you want. Whether other servers federate with you is another matter of course.
The Fediverse gives you absolute freedom of speech and everyone else absolute freedom to block you.
They can ban your account from a particular instance, but you always move to or create a new one.
I see, kind of like Nostr, right? But what about all the history, like messages and communities, that I was following from the other account?
Poof, gone.
ic, better to behave than
Why would this even be a consideration? Why is your default to misbehave? It’s attitudes like this that gives rise to moderation and censorship, because you can’t self moderate or behave without someone forcing you to.
I can’t help but feel that you’re conflating censorship with centralization. A defederated network just means that the servers you’re on will choose what they’d like to censor. Running your own server or looking for one which you probably agree with is something which may work for you, while giving others the ability to defederate and not have to read what you’re saying.
while you have the ability to say what you want, in this you do not get to force others to read it. Make your own space, or find one that you like. It will be an echo chamber, but like I said no one is obligated to read what you post about.
Its decentralized nature isn’t due to censorship, or a lack of it, but its structure. Of course there’s going to be some degree of censorship because instances all have individual rules which, if you break, you’ll be penalized for which can take the form of removal of content.
The only way to have total free speech is create your own instance which is a total free for all but then you’ll attract the worst sort of people and your instance will end up defederated by instance owners who don’t want content from literal Nazis federated to their instances.
That second paragraph highlights exactly how the Fediverse works. If you’re a shitty friend, no one will want to be friends with you.
I think “polycentric” is a better term than “decentralized.”
Every instance is a center, and is vulnerable to failure and corruption like any service provider. But at least we have a choice of instances, and there isn’t a single point of failure for the whole network.
I mean, they’re practically interchangeable words. They mean fairly the same thing. Polycentric is decentralized. You can use that word if it works for you, but decentralized is still correct.
Then what would you call a network where specific data isn’t tied to specific nodes and lost when the node goes down?
You are describing a decentralized system. But you aren’t describing a required function of decentralization.
I think that might be a little too macro for newcomers to understand.
macro?
I don’t think you quite understand what ‘decentralized’ means. Decentralization means there’s no central server, implying no data collection, no restrictions or moderation, and no banning.
Furthermore, it won’t corrupt when a single node breaks down. This is because a decentralized network is essentially built by all users within the network. Whenever one user quits or a node breaks down, there are always other nodes/users available to maintain the network. That’s the essence of a decentralized network.
Implying no data collection, no restrictions or moderation, and no banning
That is absolutely incorrect. All of those things can and do exist but it is dependent on each instance. There isn’t a single entity controlling those things, each fediverse instance decides for themselves. One instance could collect everything you do, restrict what you post, moderate what users post and comment, and ban users as they please.
Decentralisation doesn’t mean “no rules”
I just said that lemmy is not a decentralized network…
Why do you think so ?
Because it’s polycentric. Each instance is a center. When an instance goes down, it takes all its users and data with it.
I know people around here aren’t fond of cryptocurrency, but bitcoin is what I’d consider a truly decentralized system. Nothing is lost to the network when a bitcoin node goes down. As long as you have your private key, you can spend from any node, and you don’t even need a node to receive.
I believe it’s helpful to distinguish between the two types of systems.
A federated network is inherently decentralized, because the network can continue to operate in a diminished state after a node goes dark. Your local government and electric grid are decentralized.
I think you’re mixing up “Decentralized” with “Distributed.” A distributed network operates at full capacity as long as at least one node has (the majority of) the network’s content.
gitandtorrentare distributed.Well, as long as a distinction is made. I appreciate the information. I still feel that “decentralized” should be replaced with “polycentric,” but I’ll accept that “decentralized” is the standard term for a system with multiple centers.
Thanks for explaining 😊
Thanks for asking. :) Have a good one.
Lmao, I missed the ‘term’ word, I thought you said is better than decentralized, sry bro
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But it literally is.
On this part of the Fediverse, things definitely lean a bit more left/center, in general, so that’s something you may want to keep in mind with the communities you’re interacting with. I’ve seen a few communities that lean a bit more to the right, but they’re definitely more moderate, I’ve found. There’s other parts of the Fediverse, though, that lean even further to the right. There’s also a few that go waaaay further left than here. There’s plenty of options.
But something else to consider, is that some of those instances are defederated this part of the overall network, so you may see that there’s a sort of self-imposed firewall between some of these communities. But wherever you go, every instance is privately-operated, so you’ll be beholden to somebody else’s rules. The workaround for this is that you can host your own instance and do whatever you want. But, it’s up to each individual community whether or not they want to allow your content on their platform, as much as it is you with yours.
I’ve not looked into your post history, so I don’t know which way you lean. Maybe I agree with your opinions. Maybe I absolutely despise your hot takes. Either way, I hope you find an appropriate place to share them. Best of luck!
