Tara Rule says her doctor in upstate New York was “determined to protect a hypothetical fetus" instead of helping her treat debilitating pain.
Glens falls hospital is a toilet with entire floors that are abandoned. They don’t even have fans for the women in the birthing center because “people keep stealing them” according to the staff so all this horribly hot summer, women that are about to have or just had a baby have to sit in a pool of sweat with no moving air in their rooms. It cost several thousand a day to stay there, but they can’t provide $20 desk fans.
Damn, it really sounded like you were describing the USSR for a second but then you said “It cost several thousand a day to stay there…”
What is the medicine in question? Any other MD (or better, neurologist) here? As far as I know, most of the standard treatment for cluster headaches are safe for pregnant women…
Not a Dr. but enjoy a good scientific paper.
Intranasal dihydroergotamine is a category X. Aka it causes fetal damage.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3971427/
Also for those that don’t know a cluster headache is a migraine on steroids. Also referred to as “suicide headaches” due to a common event prior to effective treatment.
You’re right. There are other options though. Like oxygen therapy triptan, etc. I don’t understand why didn’t the doctor just prescribe the drug. Just let the patient sign an informed consent… especially if the patient isn’t pregnant and not planning pregnancy at the moment.
Because the doctor prescribed a different drug.
Also, also referred to as exploding head syndrome
wtf, that sounds awful
eta: “suicide headaches,” “exploding head syndrome,” I am so fucking upset that people suffer from things like this. Idk, I just hope you guys are okay. :(
Exploding head syndrome is something different and a potential side effect of rapid discontinuation of SSRIs. I’ve had it and it’s different from a migraine.
Upon refreshing my memory you are correct. I just must have assumed they referred to the same thing
She’s not pregnant though so it wouldn’t matter.
Commonly they dont recommend embryotoxic medication in woman of childbearing age, as unecpected pregnancies happen and the chance for severe birth defects increase. Sometimes these can only be detected late into a pregnancy, so if the person might want to keep a pregnancy it would be not to take it.
But sir we have a lynch party here we can’t just use normal reasoning… that’s boring for one and also snowballing hatred is our forte
Easy solution, prescribe birth control treatment in tandem. Require insurance to pay.
It’s pretty simple really. If someone is taking a medication that creates problems if they become pregnant, and they don’t want to become pregnant, give them treatment to prevent them from becoming pregnant!
Sure, but do not recommend is different than will not give.
That should be the women’s choice to make though. She doesn’t want a baby, if she has an unexpected pregnancy she will abort, so she doesn’t need to take all that into account. She should get her treatment and a prior warning about pregnancy issues that could occur
If a doctor spells out a risk to a patient and then still gives something that ends up causing harm, it is really a bit of a grey area. I don’t think that the doctor is entirely free of guilt in general. That being said, denying a medication without offering a proper substitute on this basis seems egregious. One can, under normal circumstances, control if they get pregnant or not.
Not in this case though. Worst thing the doctor could ask for a confirmation that ge informed the patient about the associated risks. I’d imagine a conversation like this:
“I inform you that this medication can cause severe birth defects in any baby in case you are pregnant. If you are pregnant you should not take this medication”
“I am not pregnant and do not plan to get pregnant. If i should be pregnant without my knowledge i’ll not keep the baby.”
“Given the strong risk associated with possible birth defects from this medication, could you please sign here, that i informed you about the risk?”
The moral grey area here is the person that ends up with birth defects I think. Not sure I agree with the policy, but remove it with a large enough population you will end up with some women ignoring advice and carrying to term.
There is no person and would never be a person. In some other case, where the pregnancy is on the table, sure, maybe then we can talk about it. But this precrime bullshit is nothing more than just another strive to remove agency from women.
That’s not how it would play out in a malpractice case.
Lawyer: You recommended my client take a medication that causes birth defects, when you could have recommended a medication that doesn’t cause birth defects. Because of that, her child has birth defects.
Doctor: Yes, but she said she didn’t want children.
Lawyer: Have you ever heard a woman say she didn’t want children, who later went on to have a child?
Doctor: Yes, it happens sometimes.
Lawyer: So birth defects are a foreseeable result of the medication you recommended, even in women who say they don’t want children?
Doctor: …
Nice imaginary conversation, I’m sure you’re a totally qualified doctor and lawyer… just have the patient sign a liability waiver dude
Liability waivers don’t protect doctors against malpractice claims.
Yes they do. In new york (where this took place), and most places, doctors are protected by liability waivers if the patient has informed consent. Read this for more information if you want an actual informed opinion on this
https://sobolaw.com/medical-malpractice/signing-a-waiver-before-surgery-can-you-still-sue/
Under his eye.
Albany Medical Health Partners is who she’s suing.
The specific hospital was Glenn’s Falls.
For anyone wondering.Dang, If it was going to be an upstate hospital I figured it would have been St Peters health partners. That group is fucked.
Glenn’s Falls
What Glenn should do as she would be denied abortion in Murica!
Next week: drinking age for women raised to 50, just in case.
Right? What sort of bullshit is this. At least booze has no real gatekeepers.
removed by mod
I’ve been saying this for years. Hope you don’t get banned.
If I do I do. But that’s where I am. We keep trying the ‘right’ thing to fix society and get past this shit.
Its. not. fucking. working.
It really is working. It might not be as fast as we want, and it’s definitely a bit of “two steps forwards, one step back,” but society is generally moving in the right direction.
Tell this woman and the thousands of others like her that it’s working. I fucking dare you to go to her account and post don’t worry society is getting better just live with it for now.
I’m not responding to her specific situation, but the movement of society in general.
It seems a lot more like half a step forward, one step back.
To be quite frank, we are beyond the time where incremental change is going to save us on so many issues, we might as well drastically raze the entire structure to the ground and rebuild anew. We shortly will not have the planet we used to because we’ve been trying this current method of polite effort. We need to be rude, aggressive, and dangerous to our opposition because they are trying to kill us. They are actively killing us. We are not winning yet and I don’t know if I have time to see us get there.
By any means necessary.
Anti-choice people shot and bombed doctors and clinics so it’s not exactly unprecedented.
So, you’re okay sinking to those same lows?
Yes. Do you think we’re really going to take a doctor like this and sit him down and make him a functioning member of society who treats women with respect?
No, he should lose his medical license and potentially suffer other consequences, but that’s through the process of a civilized society. The nurse practitioner’s actions sound criminal and should be prosecuted as such. No need to act barbaric.
And that’ll fix society? Because we’ve been trying it that way for a very long time. Things are getting so much better doing it that way right?
Day by day society is getting more progressive and moving away from things like this right? Right?
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Yes, society is getting more progressive.
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Even if it didn’t, violence won’t solve anything.
I don’t disagree that violence isn’t the correct answer in this situation, but “Violence never solves anything” is just a nice platitude and is demonstrably false. Most of the rights and privileges we have today only came about through violent means. It is more accurate to say violence doesn’t solve everything.
Or to put it another way:
The Magna Carta was a peace treaty.
The ideas of a democratic republic were born of the French and American Revolutions
MLK was the peaceful side of a civil rights movement that would not have had the same power without Malcom X and the black panthers.
Overtime, the 5 day work week, unions and most labor protections came at the expense of a LOT of blood in the United States.
Women’s Suffrage was not a peaceful movement either.In the history of most countries, mass violent protest has been the protest most likely to achieve its goals. Saying “Violence never solves anything” is to turn a blind eye to history.
We are getting more progressive? When did we get roe versus Wade back? Did we stop trying to outlaw trans people? When did the police stop executing black people in the street just for fun?
These people do what they want because it’s literally legal for them to do it. Nobody is doing anything to stop them. Now if they all started getting drug into the middle of the street and sat on fire they would think twice.
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The thing is…it worked. People training to be doctors stopped going into abortion-related fields, some schools stopped teaching late-term abortion techniques, and it overall became more difficult to get abortions. And now abortions are becoming illegal again in many states. Their side won.
You say, “won” like nothing can ever change. Dobbs is definitely a step back but I am certain it’ll change back in my lifetime. I’m not an American, but where I am, we’ve adjusted to the threats against abortion providers and I think many US states have done the same.
As the saying goes, “The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice.”
Not yet. A lot of doctors are leaving those states so that they can practice freely without fear of being prosecuted for doing what’s best for their patients. Looking at you, Idaho
Damn, unbelievable this shit is still happening. It was outrageous then, it’s just barbaric now.
Conservative = Regressive. The worst part is that they only pine for it because of nostalgia and nostalgia has a tendency to be viewed through rose colored glasses
To paraphrase a wise owl, when you look at something through rose colored glasses, all of the red flags are just flags.
…. Wouldn’t they appear to be black flags?
…. So what you’re saying is you’d still have to be a total dumb ass to keep going in that direction? That’s an excellent point you made
I wonder which writer wrote that line. They should get recognition.
Conservative = Regressive.
“Great Again” is just a euphemism for this.
I agree with the points made in this article, but I don’t think they did due diligence in reporting on what doctors or hospitals blacklisted her and why. I’d like to know the reasoning behind why she was denied treatment everywhere locally. I suspect that there’s an interesting story there.
This is a messy story. It has been covered by other publications. Other publications have included additional details. I suspect that what happened may not be so clearly black and white as the story presented by Jezebel.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2022/10/13/roe-abortions-people-denied-medications-because-of-hypothetical-pregnancies/8194046001/ (archive link because article is paywalled)
Aww, thanks for the links! That’s really nice of you!
You’re welcome.
Yeah there’s an interesting story, the doctors lied about her to other doctors:
According to Rule, after she shared audio recordings of her interactions with the neurologist on TikTok, an employee at the hospital contacted another hospital in the area, alleging that Rule livestreamed her appointments. This led to Rule’s removal from the second hospital, Malta Medical (also under Albany Medical Health Partners), in the middle of treatment for her cluster headaches. Rule denies livestreaming.
Right, and it’s great that we hear her side of the story as it truly is an injustice. I also noticed that the writer did say that they wouldn’t comment on ongoing litigation, but still, what about all the other hospitals that blacklisted her, right?
Also, not a smart move on her part publicizing that stuff before the trial, but that’s neither here nor there I suppose.
Anyway, I hope she wins the shit out of that lawsuit!
I can’t fathom how women deal with this bullshit day in and day out. Yeah, hopefully she wins enough to give pause to the other assholes who want to tell people what they can and can’t do with their bodies.
Me either. My wife, for example, was diagnosed with fibromyalgia, IMO, a total cop-out… and now they see in imaging that the pain is likely from arthritis.
Fuckin frustrating.
I feel for her, but this feels shady as hell. Never mentions the drug, which could be because if people knew, they’d look into it and possibly side against her. Then add she’s a TikTok’r and “content creator” which means all these clicks into her are making her a lot of money.
My guess is that the drug is valproate. It’s used for headaches as well as epilepsy, though obviously other drugs can be used instead.
The problem with valproate is that it is causes birth defects in two thirds (!!) of pregnancies, including spina bifida in 10% of pregnancies.
The World Health Organization and the European Medicine Agency have issued statements/regulations against prescribing it to any women of childbearing potential. Plenty of American docs take a similar approach, regardless of religious beliefs. Just to be crystal clear, neither the WHO nor the EMA pay attention to Dobbs, the SCOTUS, or the GOP.
It has been over a year since the appointment in question took place.
https://jezebel.com/woman-with-severe-chronic-pain-was-denied-medication-fo-1849569187
Wouldn’t contraceptives be an even better protection?
You can’t have birth defects if you’re never conceived *taps head*
Even worse then the headline…
One of the nurses started calling other hospitals lying about what happened, and even found the patient on Facebook and messaged her partner
She knows has to travel outside of the state to get appointments
And I thought the time my mom got “fired” from her primary care because the nurse flatout lied about her interaction with her was overkill…
Well that sounds like an open-and-shut HIPPA violation case.
*HIPAA
*HIPPO
*HIPPOPOTAMUS
*WATERHORSE
Good. They need to be sued.
Don’t get your hopes up. She sued pro se, which means she couldn’t find or doesn’t want a lawyer to take her case. Either way, it is very unlikely she will win.
Holy fucking Handmaid’s Tale.
“Your womb is worth more than you.”
I hope they take his license after the insurance companies drop him.
Maybe I’m just being pessimistic but I’m nervous that she’s going to lose and this whole misery machine is just going to keep churning.
I have chronic pain. I also have the privilege of being male, so I do not have to go through what she went through, but I would probably not make it out of it alive considering how severe my pain is and what I tried to do about it once before.
