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Then why don’t you just buy used? Anyway the argument used is problematic and misleading. I could easily poke holes in there argument
where do used cars come from? storks? no, from new cars. if 80% of Americans can’t afford a new car what do you think that’s gonna do to the used car market?
Good thing the supply of used cars can never be low leading to crazy high used car prices as well.
If they are to high just sell what you have. I can’t imagine an average used car costing anywhere near 40,000 USD
Sorry, this sounds weird to me. If I need a car, but cars are too expensive I should sell mine to buy another? So if I have a beater on its last legs, I should not have a problem buying a working beater because my broken one will be worth more?
Try this same argument with houses, unless you don’t plan on living in one the math does not work.
First time car buyers don’t have any car to sell.
True but that’s not the majority. Anyway you can always buy something cheaper. I would go for something that’s hail damaged or messed up cosmeticly as the price for those will be much lower
how much do you think one of those costs in 2023? I’ll give you a hint, it’s not $500 OBO anymore
… And then spend twice or thrice the buying price fixing random things that break in a car that spends most of its time parked at the mechanic.
Or don’t? I would go for a car with a solid engine.
Solid engine costs extra. That’s the entire point.
If they sell their current car first, what do they use in the interim? Most places in the US do not have any public transportation to speak of, and those that do are not reliable or frequent enough to get anywhere on time.
I mean, that’s how it’s always been, isn’t it? When I was young, admittedly some time ago, there would be that one guy where you lived who had his own business, and bought a new car every three years
Literally everyone else had second hand cars. Peer pressure and advertising are the only things that have changed this
In fact, cars are far more reliable now so it makes more sense to buy second hand now
Incidentally, I used to have a rule about 20 years ago that I’d never buy a car between 5 and 8 years old because that’s when everything started to go wrong. After that, all the shitty bits had been replaced!
I wonder if that’s changed or shifted now
Hey, that’s me!
It was bad enough before supply chain issues, but now the car companies and dealerships are so used to ridiculous margins and they want to keep it this way as long as possible. Something’s got to give eventually, but if I’ve learned anything since the great recession of 2008, it’s that things can stay terrible for a very, very, very long time.
the rise of ebikes is the likely solution. young people especially are going to go without cars for longer and use an ebike or escooter. expect to see more on the roads, and more of them getting ran over by lifted trucks. this will likely lead to more protected bike lanes going in since getting rid of the micromobility is impossible and they have to go somewhere and the people who use them won’t be able to afford a car
They have been terrible and they never got better, then we shot that gorilla and the end of the world began.
Truth be told.
Experts say you should not spend more then 30% of your income on housing (shelter, heat, water, sewer and electricity). If you need a car (live outside a city, have bad city planing, etc.) then this is one more pressure on people.
The current “normal” world exists now only for people making a lot more then the average.
Oh and to better illustrate the gap between prices and wages: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_average_wage Compare to an average price of 48k https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a43611570/average-new-car-price-down-still-high/
Honestly you shouldn’t even spend that on a car. Cars lose value overtime and are a bad investment.
Take your money and put it into a emergency fund or retirement
Ok, so there is no public transit here and even though I walk and use my peddle powered bike for in town whenever I can, I would not be able to make a living without a car like thing. No one with half a working brain is thinking that their daily driver is an investment. Hell a lot of people (me in the past) spend more working time in that car then not. A car like device is not a optional luxury for most people in North America. This is sadly the world we live in outside of major (and even not all major) cities.
A car doesn’t need working heat and doesn’t need to be cosmeticly pleasing. All it needs to do is get from one point to another
And nether of those things are needed for a car to be unaffordable. It is like you don’t know what a car costs that works. used prices for absolute garbage is high due to the fact most of the market can not even think of buying new cars. Less new cars means less used cars later.
the car industry is digging itself a grave
I guess my experience has been different
A car doesn’t need working heat
yes it does, for safety reasons. I’ve been in scary situations with windshield fog before, I won’t drive a car without a working heater
Thing is, if you need a car you cant afford to not have one. My options are buy a used car or a new car. Used cars are difficult to gauge reliability. And anything less than 5 years old is only ~5k under the price of a new car.
Mf subaru people had the gall to show me 2018 forester with 20k miles on it and be like “$29,000”. For reference, a new, 2023 forester with no miles costs $31,000. Insane.
Your choices are currently: buy a reliable used car for the MSRP of a new car and less warranty, buy a very old, unreliable used car for 2x-6x what it was worth 3 years ago, or buy a new car at or above MSRP.
Shits fucked yo.
My car cost $5,000. It a old Subaru with some hail damage and I do most of the work myself. It leaks oil but that can’t be helped.
Don’t go buy a modern car. They are made cheap and overpriced.
This is bad financial advice I hear all the time. People don’t buy cars as an investment, they buy them as a consumable item or a form of entertainment.
Nobody says you shouldn’t go to the movies because it doesn’t generate a return.
I also don’t understand the whole “it depreciates in value” angle. Yes, everything I buy new depreciates in value once it is no longer new. I’m not buying a car to immediately sell it. So who cares?
Are there people out there flipping cars like they do with houses? Maybe tell those people.
I bought my car new and people told me the same thing. I’m still driving it 13yrs later and have had no major maintenance issues; only regular maintenance like oil, tire rotation, lube etc. The most expensive thing I’ve put into it are new tires.
I’ll buy my next car new again and do the same thing.
“Are there people flipping cars like they do with houses?”
Yes. Dealerships. Used car lots. People who offer you $3,000 on trade in and turn around to sell the vehicle for $9-11,000 after a detail and oil change.
People should never trade in or sell their car to a lot/dealer, because they are almost always settling for about a quarter of its value. But the convenience of not having to find a buyer is awfully tempting.
I don’t disagree with anything you’re saying, but I’m talking about new cars. Outside of profiting off of EV rebates as someone else mentioned, I don’t know of anyone buying new cars to flip. Which is why talking to people about immediate depreciation seems silly to me.
Are there people out there flipping cars like they do with houses? Maybe tell those people.
I’ve read if people buying new Teslas (with some kind of credit for buying an EV), driving it for a year or so, selling it for more than they paid and then repeating the process. Not sure if this is a viable strategy anymore (don’t know if Tesla has that much demand anymore).
It’s not really bad financial advice, and people will absolutely tell you to skip some of the frivolity in the idea of generating a return. I don’t think most people think of a car as an investment, but I do think that it’s entirely common to spend way, way too much on a car for basic transportation. Giant trucks and SUVs that start at 40k are like the most popular cars in America. Most people probably really do need to be told that they’re over-spending on cars. Like, the last time we bought a car, I had to talk my wife out of a monster SUV because she was like “well what if our kids want to take friends [on the two trips we take a year]?” Like, the other 50 weeks of the year, she’s solo commuting 10 miles… I’m not making fun of her, this is sort of the default mentality in this country. In the end we settled on a smaller crossover for half the price ( < $20k) and the agreement if we wanted we’ll use the money we save to rent an escalade or whatever if we want to take a big trip.
I have seen entire families with kids going to school on a moped. Mom dad and three little ones. You don’t have to take it to that extreme but you are right. For all but the biggest families a regular sits 5 car is enough.
The movies don’t cost as much as a car (hopefully). If you want to save money stop dropping it on useless things. You may need to cut back and actually budget. I’m still surprised at the number of people who don’t even track there spending
Good. Now tell everyone who owns a house that. Do you have a house that you live in? Congrats! You own an asset. One day you might get very lucky and get slightly more than what you paid for it, after inflation, but don’t count on it.
I think you’re missing the point. Purchasing a utility item for its utility is fine, just don’t splurge on a car when that money is far better put into housing, healthier foods, education, etc.
I’ll rather buy used car and have no monthly payment anyways. A new car is among the worst investments to spend your money on.
Just bought an 11 year old car for 12k. Because a new one would’ve wiped out my savings and then some after saving for 5 years to replace my 20 year old car. Nobody can afford shit.
People need to stop “pretending” they can afford all this shit, it’s not needed and noone cares, who are people showing off too?
New iphone? Don’t need it
Maybe if we stop buying shit these companies will actually try
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I bought a boat last year and now I want a bigger one. I’ve got lots of disposable income because I don’t live beyond my means. Lots of people carry credit card debt and spend stupidly. Don’t do that and you’ll likely be ahead of most people.
The boats are around 2k. Not huge rich guy money.
I bought a boat last year and now I want a bigger one…I don’t live beyond my means…spend stupidly…
🤯🤯🤯
Homie. You just bought the largest money sink there is. You can drop 20k into your 2k boat and when you turn around and sell it you’ll get your 2k back, that’s it, maybe. All the amenities are nice, but no one cares if the all the outlets match the drapes - that’s why buying either is stupid, financially.
Fences are another good example. They can cost tens of thousands…EASY. In fact if I heard a neighbor fenced even one side of their yard for under 5k id be in shock. They make a place more livable, more comfortable. They increase the likelihood of a sale but they don’t increase property value so you’re never getting a return on that money.
Be it fences, boats, outlet covers or drapes, those are all emotional purchases. Their value is subjective, so most find when it’s time to move on from them theyre the only ones who see that value.
Like go spend 5k on a couch. How much you think your gonna get for that? Or your mattress?
Better live on your next boat if you like life on the water. It’s literally the only way I’ve ever seen anyone who works for a paycheck hold onto a boat. A real boat. The kind that you have to moar and drydock once every few years. Only way.
It’s a hobby. I’m doing a proper checking to make sure everything is sound and not putting money in for it to look pretty, just to sail around and camp on the water on the weekend. Like I said I’m far from broke.
To be clear, you can have any hobby you want my man, that’s cool. You do you. I’m not taking umbrage due to your taste or aesthetics. The part that offends is your condescending attitude towards other peoples spending, while you do one of the most expensive “hobbies” there are. If the contrast isn’t striking to you or you think you’ve earned some next level respect, having risen above the mere mortals and all, well then you just come off quite Antoinette, and as a quick reminder, that’s not a good look either.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying that’s what this is or putting you on blast, I’m just saying it’s bringing these vibes to me and putting that on the table. You do with it what you will. If there’s something I can tell ya that’s universal across cultures, it’s lend a hand to help, bring people up with you, and attack up, not down, especially with jokes, opinions and attitudes.
Otherwise you’re just a kiss ass for people with more money/power than you. And idk man, some people are comfortable licking boots and kneeling, I don’t get it but it is what it is, it’s just not something I can quantifying into a price. The rest of us just have to cope, I guess, with owning our dignity, integrity and spines. For some people everything is for sale.
I was merely offhanded mentioning what I was planning on spending the money I’ve saved by not owing high interest credit card debt. Partly as a way to share my excitement on a minor thing.
I’ve passed on the boat I looked at today as it’s a bit too much work and money to bring up. I try to make sound financial decisions.
Bro Im not trying to add to a chorus of people who’re gonna tell you not to have your hobby. I adore everything about sailboats, that being said, the only way I’ve seen anyone stay on top of the things is by living in it, which maybe you should consider. Mooring costs aren’t as high as rent payments are, at least, not yet. Fuck if my wife would agree, that’s exactly what I’d do in a heartbeat. Then I’d get the boat ready over a year or two and sail down to Patagonia and try to win over an adventurous penguin.
In a heartbeat.
And props on not carrying debt. Debt is just slavery with more steps. Jesus lost his shit one time in the bible. He even forgave his killers. But the fucking money lenders, the bankers, he fucked their shit up. Based Jesus. If he were around today, after a couple months he’d put down the internet porn, look around and say ‘i fucking told you guys 2000 years ago, for fucks sake’.
Dude not everything has to turn a profit, people are familiar with depreciating assets, they are allowed enjoy things though.
Honestly I thought fences was a euphemism because there’s no way you think people invest in fences for financial reasons. It’s for aesthetics and privacy.
The cost of a boat is primarily in upkeep, not price. You’ll see.
You say primarily. Only really on the long term. It’s mid 20 foot sail boats. I can learn to do fiberglass/painting, etc myself. Paying tradesmen is where the cost is.
Fiberglass ain’t cheap either brother. You need to fix a water tank? Just looking at fiberglass makes your wallet lighter $500, and costs rise exponentially.
Problem with your inverter? Batteries? Generator? 3k a piece, and that’s if you’re shopping around.
Don’t get me wrong, I live off-grid and after doing it for a few years we decided a while back that if it’s not rated marine we just aren’t interested in it. Everything rusts. Every bullshit thing in the market is designed to fail after 200 cycles, just past the 180day warranty. But marine ratings are actually enforced. So everything we own has steadily become aluminum or stainless steel. Redoing finishes and waterproofing, oiling. Protecting shit from the weather is almost a full time job.
And then the canvas. And the rigging. And the ropes. Rope is without question my favorite tool. I know a solid 50+ knots I can do blindfolded, upside down and behind my back hanging in a tree. Bro, I love sailing, and rigging for that matter, and I won’t even do what your doing and I’m in my early 40s, childless, no debt, own two businesses, have no rent or mortgage payment - and I can’t afford a boat.
Godspeed my man.
I just love him arguing with you when you clearly were speaking from wisdom gained by experience (even if it’s experience of others, idk)
There’s a reason there is a famous joke about the happiest days of a boat owners life are the day he bought it and the day he sold it.
But if anyone knows a work around I’d say this OP is a bit down that list already lol
I’m not rebuilding a boat. I’m finding a boat in good condition with space to basically camp for a week. Inverter? Generator? Bro I’m not buying a yacht. I’m looking at 50 year old boats built like tanks with matching accomodations. Just want to get out there and have some fun. Lines can get rough and ugly but still have years in them when it’s double braid. Also it’s going to be in fresh water for most of its life. Merely interested in patching any bad looking stuff with fairing compound, hit it with some bottom paint every now and then. I already passed on a 1972(?) Pearson 26 (soft spots in the deck), now looking at an Ericson 27 instead.
I’m curious. What car did you buy? I hate how everything is so inflated. I bought a mint civic si for 8 grand like 6 years ago. I kinda want insight/realize everything is fucked.
We picked up a 12 year old civic hatchback before Covid for 5k and it was in immaculate like-new condition, low miles. It got totaled right after our other car’s engine finally wore out. I then found a 10 year old Toyota for 16k. It was the lowest price in a 200-mile radius for cars/small trucks with under 150k miles on them that weren’t limping/totaled/savaged.
It was fucking flabbergasting.
You got yours 6 years ago. 8k was about average for a decent used car then. Now you’re paying almost full price for a 5 year old car or if you’re okay with a shit box that may or may not last then you can drop 5k. I got a 2012 GTI.
about $800 last year for auto insurance
this year the number is about $1400
same vehicle same city
income stayed the same if not lower due to less work
new vehicles are more than likely unaffordable seeing how expensive a ten year old vehicle is
how the f#%k are we not in the streets
Same boat. Insurance costs have been going up for the last few years. I tried to talk to them about it… they said ‘well everyone else is getting in accidents, you don’t even know!!! It’s crazy out there’. Same vehicle. My only ‘options’ were to let them install a bunch of tracking devices and software (fuck that) or reduce my coverage considerably.
Gosh I love the for profit insurance I’m forced to have that gets to dictate everything.
Just be glad you don’t live in Detroit or you’d be shelling out close to $6000
But you shouldn’t have to have a car in Detroit. All of our cities need robust public transportation systems.
Yeah, having a here in the Inland Empire in California is one thing since we’re pretty spread out even if you increased density and public transit. But the major cities at minimum cars should be a luxury or something that sits in the garage half the time, and if its doing that it should also be quite small like those early 90s polish cars.
Can’t have shit in Detroit.
(also funny that the motor city is not a viable place to have a motorized vehicle)
But the houses are $500
With I would assume 500k of owed taxes or some other trap, like living in Detroit.
Yet CEOs and billionaires are making more money than ever. Something has to give and soon…
Right, right after the article about tech workers living in “pods”. I mean, how much money are they making for other people? And then I know of this millionaire (who made his money in f’ing health insurance) with an 18,000 square foot house by Vail that his family visits twice a year for a few weeks.
I can’t afford a used car. My dad helped me buy my current car and if it does I’m fucked.
2 years ago I was in need of a new truck (work related). Practically all the used stuff that’s worth a dam was priced not far behind if not more than new. The kicker, the new ones I was interested in weren’t available…so I was forced to buy used.
I can’t even afford an old car lol
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Same here, why I went with a motorcycle instead lol
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People who buy new are wild to me. I can afford a new car, or I could just buy a car that’s only a few years old with low mileage and save a ton of money. Seems like a no brainer to me.
Depends on when. There have been many times in the past 20 years that “low mileage” cars are only a couple thousand less than new, and some rare cases during the pandemic where used was more than new, cause new didn’t exist.
Even now depending on where you live, you have to get a fairly used car to get a significant discount.
Right but the people they worship buy new cars, and they’re just temporarily disgraced millionaires so this 90 grand truck is worth it.
Also it makes up for the tiny penis.
There are very few electric cars available used, which severely limits my options if I want to be responsible with an automobile purchase.
Well for an EV it might make sense. There just hasnt been a used market for them for a while.
What do you mean? The Nissan Leaf first came out in 2011, the original ones are probably 13 years old now. The Bolt was released in 2016.
I own a car older than that. What I don’t want is to buy an EV and when it needs repair I have to find the one shop in my state that knows what to do. I keep hearing horror stories of having to go back to the dealer.
The problem will be solved with time but right now I would be hesitant if I was looking at replacing my car.
They generally need the same maintenance as any other car, struts, suspension, wheels, and miscellaneous parts that break. They’re not magical, they just use a different fuel.
Ok good to know, and the battery replacement stuff is all settled as well? I am planning my next car to be a used EV I just don’t want to have problems.
Battery replacements are generally about as frequent as getting a new transmission or engine. They’re rare, expensive, but if you want to pick something up on the used or remanufactured market it’s much cheaper. Supposedly the average battery will outlast the life of the car. My EV is only a year old, so I’ll have to get back to you on that, but the number I’ve heard is 10% degradation in 10 years.
the originals had terrible range right out the gate and have only gotten worse. practical electric cars aren’t common on the used market since most of them are still with their first owners
It can depend. I bought new in 2017, but it was for a 2017 chevy volt. It was discounted plus had a $7500 tax credit (which I wouldn’t get if I bought used). Final price after absolutely everything was about $20k, though the money I saved on gas helps bring that down. Still driving it to this day and loving it the whole time.
Ugh yeah I’m waiting on the Tesla M2… The problem with car companies is they keep on adding more crap that 80% of people don’t need, that adds more points of failure while increasing pricing
That’s why I drive a 2007 chevy pickup. Most things I can fix myself and the only thing that’s going to get it off the road is rust in 20 or 30 years
I… Don’t think that stat refers to you
It’s a 25k car that I’m taking out a loan for… The gas savings alone make it pretty much free… I just don’t see spending upwards of $40k
That’s my car in the picture that I bought this year! Subaru and government fucked me out of my 8K rebate and locked me into the purchase to try and get it or losing $3k.
I have to pay 20% of my income on this loan, Subaru provided a low interest rate loan because of the rebate thing while loan interest rates were over like 6%. I do pay more though making it 25% of my income. Combined with my mortgage I am paying 50% of my income on loans.
Since it is electric and my commute was costing me $160 prior, I am saving about $100/month on gas at least. After 3 years I should have it paid off early. Thinking of getting solar afterwards so hopefully one year in my life my costs will go down enough that I can afford to do nice things or retire.
