NY bill would require a criminal history background check for the purchase of a 3D printer::Requires a criminal history background check for the purchase of a three-dimensional printer capable of creating firearms; prohibits sale to a person who would be disqualified on the basis of criminal history from being granted a license to possess a firearm.
Yeah, we have this little thing called a Constitution, might just get in the way
You have a constitutional right to bear 3-D printers?
Yes, and don’t you forget that
The Founding Fathers really thought of everything.
It would probably be argued under free speech oddly enough.
Not even ‘oddly enough.’
While you can’t own a bomb factory without proper authorization (because its only purpose is building bombs), something as general-purpose as a 3D printer would absolutely enjoy first amendment protections.
Interesting tidbit: it’s not illegal to make your own guns in the US. You don’t even need a license.
I mean, imagine telling someone who was once convicted of a crime “no sorry, you can’t buy a 3D printer to make things around the house, you could make a gun as well!”
If the only thing a 3D printer could do is print a gun, then there’d be an argument. This is like banning callipers from convicted criminals because they could be used to measure ammunition. If this law somehow sticks, I will be very disappointed in the shortsighted thinking that led to such a law passing.
Silly. Why can’t we just regulated the sale of ammunition and gunpowder?
Why can’t we just regulated the sale of ammunition and gunpowder?
Or at least the gun parts needed to make a “3d printed” gun actually function as a firearm.
You can make a completely 3D printed gun that will survive at least one shot. I’m sure if you’re using resin or carbon fiber reinforced plastic so you could probably get more than one shot off.
That may usually survive that one shot.
Or it may fail and cause damage to the person foolish enough to be weilding it.
Resin is generally more brittle than filament, FYI, and the real question with most 3D-printed firearms is whether the shooter survives “at least one shot”.
Most 3d printed guns are either redesigns of existing guns replacing non pressure bearing parts with printed parts (look up FMDA17 a 3D printed Glock 17 equivalent) or mostly printed with pressure bearing parts being barstock or pipes (see FGC-9).
I’m not really sure where you’re getting “Most 3D-printed guns”, but here’s one of the top communities of such. You’ll see quite clearly that MSLA is not the preferred method for production, parts or otherwise.
I wasn’t claiming MSLA was preferred I was commenting in reference to the latter half of the comment. Most 3DP firearms last much more than a single round because they incorporate metal components where important.
I’m familiar with Defcad, but would recommend The Gatalog over it.
Oh, hey, thanks! I’m new to the concept and my interest is design adjacent: modded Nerf/airsoft arms, so I’m largely unaware of the intricacies of actual firearms printing — though, I’ll give Gatalog a look, fo sho 🤙🏼
Receivers are already regulated
Receivers are usually the main part that’s 3d Printed, that’s the problem.
We do actually. Just last year new york passed the Concealed Carry Improvement act imposing a background check on ammunition purchases. This bill is completely redundant and unnecessary.
Redundant, you say?
How else are corporations going to limit things like “right to repair” and sales, when people can print their own replacement parts or print stuff they would otherwise have to buy?
Think of the profits! /s
Also, how else do you expect politicians to score easy points by “cracking down on gun violence” while wasting taxpayer resources and legislative time/effort? Won’t you think of the poor kids going to school in the literal war zone of the public school system?
For the record, common sense gun control laws are important (opinions are what these entail are welcome to vary). The issue is that most of the US already has such laws thoroughly in place yet people and politicians like to act like they don’t exist every time a tragedy occurs. I’m sure there’s exceptions, but the grand majoroty of the time a politician starts blathering about tightening gun control laws a cursory search shows plenty on the books for their jurisdiction.
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Cool. I didn’t know that.
Why? It’s not guns and bullets killing people, it’s 3D printing 🙃
NY is the shining example of the simple creation of a law being enough to entirely extinguish any criminal activity related to it in the entire jurisdiction. This one is so incredibly powerful, in fact, that the very second it goes into effect, the whole state of NY will be unable to cross state lines to acquire said devil boxes, nor even use a VPN to make such a purchase online. Also, sharks are smooth.
I’m all for preventative laws if they are good policy. This isn’t good policy.
That’s actually an excellent point about sharks that many people don’t realize. I’m petting one right now and it feels like the softest silk.
No direction is taboo, they’re smoother than vanta is black 🦈
Sounds like the war on general-purpose
computationmanufacturinglmao could you even make a usable firearm with a 3D printer?
Even if you used the best quality material, it would probably explode on the first shot making its aim useless and probably a danger to the user.
Also why not do a background check for idk maybe the gunpowder lol.
You can! There’s a pretty big community for 3D printed guns. Interesting Vice doc on it: https://youtu.be/C4dBuPJ9p7A?si=NjWH8-4bB0dEGIjH
Oh wow, I didn’t think plastic could be viable.
brb gonna 3d print a tank lmao
A lot of guns use some type of plastic somewhere, there are metal parts and polymer parts. You’re going to want metal for the areas under pressure but everything else can be whatever.
You can make a shotgun with a nail and pipe from a hardware store. It won’t be very good, but it can fire shot.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://piped.video/C4dBuPJ9p7A?si=NjWH8-4bB0dEGIjH
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Reason #56,273 not to live in NY.
dumb and pointless
This is just “New Media is scary and I’m old!” Fear Mongering
I’m a leftist, I don’t support laws like this cause they don’t actually do anything. Dems fr have been supporting initivies to fork over more and more data.
Here’s a fun fact, hobby machinists have been making guns in their garages for as long as machining has been a career.
You can, right now, buy a drill press for a few hundred bucks and finish 80% lowers in an apartment if you want. If you have a lot of money to spend you could buy a mini mill and make the job a lot easier.
These are completely unregulated and arguably much more dangerous.
Have fun with that knowledge.
And I can’t even remember the last time a crime was committed with a made-at-home gun. We’re really going after the people that commit all the violence. 🙄
It’s such an easy window into the fact that it’s about cutting the access to weapons of the population who might use them to fight back against government action. They dgaf if we murder each other, they just don’t want us murdering them.
I think it’s stupider than that. They have no idea how a handmade gun could be built without a 3d printer. They probably have zero clue what a 3d printer actually can and cannot do, and I’d bet most politicians have never seen one or bothered to understand it before regulating it. Their sole exposure is a few loud people who also do not understand anything about guns or 3d printers, and confuse that lack of understanding with definitive proof that it is evil and should be banned.
Same principle applies to the frequent attempts to ban semi-auto rifles, when rifles account for 3% or less of all homicides annually.
Those kind of weapons are effective for defending / attacking a moderate sized area, unlike pistols and bolt-action rifles. Pistols are short range and bolt-action rifles are slow. It’s obviously about the power that they don’t want the people to have.
Hell, you can make a basic pipe shotgun with a $5 hacksaw and some steel pipe. Not only that, but you can pretty convert tons of guns to full auto with basically no effort. Sometimes literally a piece of coat hanger bent with pliers. The Lightning Link, which can convert a majority of modern ARs to full auto has been around for decades and can be made with about $1 worth of steel, a piece of paper with the design printed on it, and that hacksaw you used earlier. Even some guy in his garage could easily make hundreds a year without a single power tool.
All of this is to say, you know what we don’t see? Millions of illegal full-auto firearms being used to re-enact the minigun scene from Terminator 2. Much to the shock of our government, the vast majority of citizens are law-abiding, and stupid shit like this once again only harms normal people while criminals will just continue to break the law as usual.
There is a decent community of 3d printed firearms, but they’re not printing pressure chambers or barrels. These things can be and frequently are regulated. These guys are printing crazy looking guns for fun. They still have to go buy the important bits and even then they still fail pretty regularly.
This is some real brain dead legislation
Oh, I’m well aware and I’m part of that community, which is what makes this so hilarious. US gun legislation hasn’t ever really been based on reality, and always amazes me that in a country where guns are such an integral part of its history and culture, we have people who seemingly know less than nothing about anything firearms related effectively making legislation based on something they saw in a movie that one time.
Just go into jersey or any surrounding staye and buy the printer and head back to New york
Or just buy some steppers, cabling, and 8020. Is NY going to be regulating those too? Are they going to require serialized hotends?
I’m fine with that, as long as they prevent ANYONE with a white collar crime from owning any assets, right?
That would be fair?Are these lawmakers aware of the fact you can 3d print a 3d printer? Or at least, about 80% of its parts, and the remaining parts are indistinguishable from the random stuff youd buy at the hardware store? (Aluminum extrusion mostly, some gears, etc)
The only part they could theoretically hope to control worth a damn would be the printing nozzles, which are so incredibly cheap to buy bulk and nearly impossible to specialize.
Also you could take this to court and point out that you would need to also include CNC machines, Laser Cutters, lathes, and any of the other variations of tools that can be used to manufacture a DIY gun.
This isnt a problem specific to 3d printers, a CNC mill that can cut aluminum is also just as capable of producing the jigs needed to manufacture gun parts.
I’d argue a cnc mill makes a hell of a better gun than a 3d printer
I’d fire a 3D printed gun with a string from about 20’ away.
It would, but it would also require more expense and skill and the “gun control is pointless because people will just make their own guns” lie works best when you can imply there is minimal cost, experience, effort and risk.
since a cnc is computer controlled it should be about as hard to learn to use a 3d printer
making the model and instructions for the cnc may be more complicated, but you can share those
Your gut feelings are not facts. CNC machining – especially of hard metals and complex shapes – is significantly more complicated and expensive than desktop 3D printers.
You can’t just buy a $200 CNC frame, stick a palm router in it and come back an hour later to an AR-15.
There are companies that sell small CNC machines marketed for the purpose of producing firearms. At that point all you need is the gcode and the stock.
Sounds like you shouldn’t have any problem answering these questions then:
- What does the machine itself cost?
- What grades of metal is the spindle able to cut and what is suitable for a safe and reliable firearm?
- What tool heads are needed to manufacture each part of a gun?
- For each of those tools, cutting that material, what is a good RPM and feed rate?
- Do any parts require precise realignment as part of a tool change or when changing the orientation of a part?
- How much stock is required for a semi-automatic rifle and what does it cost?
- What have you personally manufactured and on what machines? Regular old mills and lathes are fine.
Alternatively, you could go on record saying that absolutely none of those things matter for gun manufacturing.
All of the answers to these questions are easy, and they all begin with a G.
G-code answers most of your technical concerns.
Google could have helped you find your other answers.
And the Ghost Gunner is what I found:
https://ghostgunner.net/product/ghost-gunner-3-deposit/
Why so incredulous about something that is obviously possible?
Not that you’re saying otherwise, but it’s not anywhere that simple to make a gun on a 3d printer either. It’s at least not considerably easier than making one clandestinely using any of the myriad options that have existed without 3d printing.
So the big thing people, including lawmakers, whiff on this is you dont actually 3d print guns. You can 3d print superficial parts like the grip and whatnot, but the actual firing part of the gun is largely not 3d printable.
You can print it, and people have tried, but it usually only lasts 1-2 rounds before it breaks.
However, what you can print that is a huge deal, is the very precise jigs necessary to very easily manufacture the firing mechanisms of the gun, to quite a degree of precision. Then you use a drill or whatever to actually make those metal parts.
Basically, you can easily 3d print a gun maker, and then 3d print all the “extra” parts like grip and whatnot that attach to what you have created, in order to improve it.
Thats the actually serious part, because normally these sorts of jigs need to be extremely precise and are quite difficult to get ahold of. You need a fairly high end CNC machine to make one, or you have to buy it.
But 3d printers, even fairly affordable ones, when fine tuned by hand, do have the necessary precision to print such jigs, which makes them much more accessible for quite cheap… And once you print the jig, it becomes pretty easy to mass produce DIY guns.
People have been making paper templates for a long time, I can’t see how plastic would have any real advantage. A plastic guide isn’t going to constrain a metal cutting tool, at best it just shows you where you need to drill the same as a paper template. If you wander outside the lines you’ll just mess up both the part and the jig.
If I were to set up a clandestine gun manufacurer I would try and design a product that could be made using mostly aluminum extrutions and paper jigs. That way it’s easy to compartmentalize each step, harder for one guy to flip on you, and fast/cheap. Plus if you get raided you don’t have a bunch of incriminating files cached on your CNC machine from previous runs.
A plastic guide isn’t going to constrain a metal cutting tool,
It’s a lot more complicated than that. We are talking a lot more than just “guides” when it comes to these types of jigs. Adapters and entire jigs that require a bunch of common parts you can by at the hardware store + the plastic parts to assemble.
Think more like creating bespoke fairly precise CNC stuff to adapt a drill or router. It’s a lot more advanced than just paper guides, because 3d printers are for all intents and purposes CNC machines themselves.
This doesn’t track. You can do way better with a manual mill and, as the other poster mentioned, a 2d paper template with some spray glue will do fine in a pinch. Drilling steel will heat the bit up enough to melt plastic anyway. You could set drill bushings but they won’t be perfect and will drift a bit once they heat up.
The jigs in question are a lot more complicated than I think what you are imagining. If you look up on the topic (and possibly get added to a watchlist), it’s fairly sophisticated equipment being created to handle a lot more of the finesse work required to produce a ghost gun that can actually reliably hit targets its aimed at.
Thats what separates this sort of work out from your run of the mill DIY handcrafted stuff, the guns in question actually have a lot of accuracy as 3d printed rigs can have very high precision once they have been fine tuned, and unlike stuff like paper they can be produced in 3 dimensions, which means you’re working with a lot more than just following lines.
Think more like extremely augmented drill presses and routers and shit that can produce a lot of the parts you normally cant make yourself and have to buy.
I may be underestimating it since I’m a jig builder.
We’re talking about different things I think.
And once you print the jig, it becomes pretty easy to mass produce DIY guns.
Sure, but you still need to buy the actual firing mechanism parts of real guns in order to manufacture “3d printed guns”.
And you can also make those same jigs and fixtures out of wood or any other raw material.
but you still need to buy the actual firing mechanism parts of real guns in order to manufacture
Nah thats the parts the jigs make, as well as a couple other key pieces that require higher than usual precision. At least, if you want to actually make a gun that can reasonably hit a target.
And you can also make those same jigs and fixtures out of wood or any other raw material.
Not by hand with the precision needed, not for the parts in question. Unless you want to risk a misfire and losing a finger.
This is typical of politicians making laws about shit they don’t understand. At all.
You can make a fireable shotgun out of like 15$ of pipe fittings
Counter offer: a bill that will limit the purchase of 3D printers to people with a criminal history.
Also absurd and unconstitutional. You can make a rudimentary gun out of plumbing parts from a hardware store that is at least as effective as a 3d printer, arguably more so if you’re looking at 100% printed parts. Should we run background checks at the register at Home Depot? Should you not be able to buy plumbing if you made some bad decisions and served the time?
These are all ridiculous laws designed to restrict the liberties of the common man.
as you should, Americans have forgotten just how dangerous the world really is. You would think people would have learned something from the Hamas attacks on civilians Israel
Eh, it is easier to buy one. Besides, if I wouldn’t pass a background check I’d get the gun some other way. As it turns out, criminals care very little about abiding by gun control laws. Just look at the areas with the strictest gun control, they also happen to be the places with the highest rate of gun violence.
Wow, this makes my country’s nonsense gun laws look sane.
They do know that even children from 70 years ago where making firearms right? https://newyorkcitygangs.com/?page_id=1708
The first weapons that would be visibly identified as rifles are about 500 years old.
Firearms you can hold and point, are how old now?
From Wikipedia
Around the late 14th century in Europe, smaller and portable hand-held cannons were developed, creating in effect the first smooth-bore personal firearm.
Over 500 years old.
Democrats have no sense of history otherwise they would have to cancel themselves
This is just a way to restrict individual freedom from corporate ownership. It’s the equivalent of “for the children”. If you’re against guns don’t fall for this bait, support some other legislation.
Makes it look like they’re doing something about crime. Doesn’t stop anyone from selling or buying them one, though, does it?
Private party transfers of anything can’t really be forced to abide background checks. If you want to buy a used printer from your friend you can just buy it, not inform the government, and skirt any background check requirements.
So you want a deliberate “3D printer show” loophole?
Other countries have absolutely no problem whatsoever enforcing background checks for private firearm transfers. Claiming it can’t be done is a self-serving lie.
