Image transcript:
The “what if you wanted to go to heaven, but god said ____” meme template, but here it says, “What if you wanted to walk to get groceries, but city planners said DRIVE”. The last panel is an image of a massive freeway full of cars.
It also gives a convenient excuse for needing ID on you at all times.
See, there’s alot of major inconveniences with rejecting getting a car or other road legal motor vehicle. Not everyone lives in the city, therefore trying to walk or bike to places while living in a rural or even sub-urban area is not necessary ideal (if even practically possible). Having a car or bike or whatever to get you on the road efficiently lets anyone go wherever they need to go with practically and ease. Now yes I know public transport exist, but one: you are one their schedule and two: not many areas other than mainstream and urban and areas have full access to public transport.
You can have both. You can have a car and still be able to walk or bike to do small daily groceries, go to the pharmacy, get bread etc. I mean, not rural middle of the fields, but small rural villages where I lived in Germany were like that.
Only in the USA do you have to pick. The suburban sparwl with strict zoning is an abomination. All for the sake of property values.
As usual this has become yet another tribal issue where you either defend the car or defend walking and biking.
You can do both without your head exploding. I know. Shocker.
This what I never understood.
Where I lived, in high school (age 15-16) everyone was expected to get a license and car ASAP. I was like, why? To get to your job. For what? To earn money to pay for the car, gas, insurance, etc.
So you want me to work a job I don’t need to pay for the gas for a car I don’t want, so I can be miserable in school?!
And if you looked at the driving records of my peers who had cars… Not pretty. A lot of totalled sports cars.
I get you. I used to go to school with bike. Its a 30-40 min journey in one way. That was the best time in my life. I liked to see the sunrise, fell the wind, goig anywhere I want. I don’t want a car too much stuff.
they probably had a lot more fun than you did tho
Fun isn’t subjective at all /s
Believe it or not working at McDonalds in your “spare” time when you’re already school full time and an athlete, isnt a whole lotta fun xD
And when there was something going in, they would ask if we needed a ride, bc plenty of us didn’t have cars. Our idea of fun was like DnD or Risk on the weekends…
What I do wish is that I had found some kind of summer internship or something that could build my skills, because I was quite into coding as a hobby.
I mean it looks like you’re already in the city so it looks like you don’t have to walk far to get groceries
Welcome to lemmy everyone. In this comment section you’ll find:
- people missing the point
- people jumping to conclusions
- people getting angry at something they made up
And more! Have fun
You can replace “lemmy” with “the internet” in your comment and it’d still be correct.
It isn’t a proper lemmy comment section yet, there has yet to be someone blaming the issue on capitalism
Also missing someone talking about Linux
Here, now it’s a proper lemmy thread:
The whole point is blaming on capitalism. That’s what the post is.
The key is blaming it on capitalism, but not allowing any amount of nuance
Oh i have read the comments. Indeed.
ohhhh, now I finally understand why people complain in Germany each time the gov plans to build a highway
Ableist garbage. Can we please ban this pathetic anti-car movement for being ableist? It’s hateful and insulting.
If anything it’s the car-dependent infrastructure that is ableist, as many people with disabilities cannot drive. I can’t, and if I didn’t live in a place where alternative modes of transport were a thing, I would either be stuck at home, or have to waste money on buying a specially made car.
Far from all disabled people use wheelchairs or have mobility issues. Some have problems with their sight, concentration, fine motor skills etc. which prevent them from driving safely. Even if you cannot walk or ride a bike, and have trouble getting on/off public transport by yourself, living in an environment that is walkable and bikeable usually means that it is also easier/safer to get around in a wheelchair or on a moped.
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It’s not anti-car per se, it’s anti-car dependency. In a walkable city, you still have the choice to have a car and drive places, but it’s not a requirement.
This is a very good thing for many people with disabilities, myself included. Not everyone can drive.
The carbrains have arrived and are salty
My sister had her driver’s license suspended for a while due to a medical condition, and her neighborhood’s extremely car-dependent design made it completely impractical to walk to get groceries. The only thing that ended up working was getting an electric bike, but even that was still not great because there are absolutely no protected bike lanes in her neighborhood. No transit either.
When you advocate against ending car dependency, you’re advocating for people like my sister to be stuck at home, unable to get groceries on their own.
Stop trying to larp being an advocate for people with disabilities, it’s pathetic and extremely disingenuous. If you actually were an advocate you’d know there are plenty of disabilities that disqualify people from driving and a lack of alternatives is the actual discrimination.
Seriously, you make me so fucking mad with this shit, it’s the worst category of cowardice. Leave and don’t come back.
There are plenty of mobility options in a walkable area. There are very few mobility options in a car dependant city.
The only people who force me to walk are physical therapist. I’m looking at you, Maryann!
Laughs in groceries delivered
Nice if you can afford it.
It’s free where I am. I could probably get cheaper grocieries in discount supermarkets, but including time and energy to get there it’s a no brainer.
Uh. I’d walk, because places this packed with cars typically have a convenience store on every corner block.
This is such a stupid argument, lol
They don’t put roads like this to places with no infrastructure. They put it in places with lots of infrastructure, and they have to – because businesses and people in the area need talent from a wide swath of land to fill out roles in companies, etc.
There are much more efficient ways to move all that talent:
The first high-speed rail system began operations in Japan in 1964, and is known as the Shinkansen The busiest high-speed rail service in the world, carrying more than 420,000 passengers on a typical weekday
– but your chart shows 90,000 per hour.
I’m gonna call bullshit. Biased source is still biased.
The chart isn’t about high-speed rail. High-speed lines often actually have lower capacity than lower-speed rail. For one, many suburban trains are bilevel, which can almost double the capacity per train, whereas high-speed lines often aren’t bilevel. Further, the higher speed doesn’t actually mean you can move more passengers per direction per hour; you’re still limited by how frequently you can run trains, as you need safe stopping distance between each train. Thus, high-speed rail can run faster, but it also needs much more space between trains. Typically the highest frequency train/metro routes can run trains every minute or two. A 2000-person capacity train every 2 minutes is equivalent to 60k passengers per direction per hour.
420,000 a day vs 90,000 an hour.
They would reach 450,000 passengers served in 5 hours.
Last I checked, a day isn’t 5 hours long…
Let’s give you a shot here and say they only operate 12 hours out of the day, that means the busiest train in the WORLD only does 35,000 an hour. But the graph is claiming 60-90k per hour.
If I can point out that very OBVIOUS bias/flaw in the chart, what is the reason I should take it seriously at all?
the busiest train in the WORLD
That’s not the busiest train in the world, though. That’s the busiest HIGH-SPEED RAIL in the world. You’re ignoring all the metro systems and suburban rail lines in the world that serve the massive daily commute market.
Regardless, even the 35k per hour of that rail line is still an order of magnitude higher than cars on roads. Cars, no matter how you slice it, are wildly space-inefficient.
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You’re comparing maximum capacity to actual usage… weekday peak hours are like 80% of weekly passengers on most functional rail systems. Very common for the rest of the hours to run half schedules or smaller carriages because it’s simply not necessary, but the network can handle it if required.
People like you should spend some quality time in a walkable city. I think you’d find a lot thaf you like!
i so wish i thought the koolaid tasted this good
You ain’t walking it if there is a freeway between you and the store. Even in large cities, walkways that cross major highways are rare.
Perfect example right here where I am. The nearest Del Taco is within a walkable distance; but it’s on the otherside of the freeway. There is no walkable crossing to get over there. I have to drive, despite it being hella stupidly close.
Nobody said you have to walk across the freeway. In places like this there are plenty of stores on your side without having to walk far.
Have you never heard of food deserts?
Our cities are so malformed by exclusionary zoning that there often really aren’t.
I see the carbrains have found this post
I don’t even follow this community, but it was top in top-6 hour
I cant imagine feeling the need to get angry over people wishing for a car free life.
Counterpoint: having a working car makes a human being have vastly more freedom to travel than not having a car.
Having a car means you can drive to anywhere that roads on your continent lead to, and even to places that don’t have roads if your car is off-road capable. Without a car, you have to hire transport to get to anywhere you can’t get to by your human body power.
I would never live without a car unless it was physically impossible. Law banning cars would not stop me, I would build my own fucking car if I had to.
You’re arguing for having a car in a thread about needing a car
It’s not about banning cars, it’s about designing places to make them not necessary
Where I live you can walk to the local shops
Loads of people drive, but you don’t have to. This is good.
Exactly. There’s a pattern I’ve noticed of people interpreting “car dependency reduces freedom” as “car ownership reduces freedom”. But the point you, I, and many others are trying to make is that building our cities in such a way that no one has a choice but to drive everywhere is counter to the idea of freedom.
Freedom is the freedom to choose how you want to get about your city and not be coerced into owning and maintaining a (rather expensive) vehicle just to get groceries. People want choices.
People interpret it that way because the community is called “fuck cars” and some users are very toxic and don’t present the nuances very well.
A lot of people support better public transportation. But nobody is being won over to the movement with antagonism and name calling.
There’s some good discussions too, I get it, but it’s no surprise that misunderstanding occurs.
(I like your username, except now I have the song in my head)
It’s too bad you don’t have the freedom to rent a car…
Yes I do. Do you not?
*had a car to drive anywhere*
*drives to the same 3 spots 99% of the time*
Explain that.
Not hard to explain at all. I am lazy and I enjoy the cool stuff I have at home more than I enjoy traveling frequently. But in my case it would be driving to the same 5 to 10 spots most of the time. I go to different cities to visit people or a dispensary with a better selection, etc.
It’s pretty cool to have the option to do any of the above anytime I want.
I walk
I hate the way people drive here but I am at least able to walk to the grocery store. It’s right across the street.
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Lucky you. My closest grocery store is a 90 min walk, 54 min bus ride, or 12 min drive round trip. (According to google maps)
I actually did that loop once! Got a couple of the basic staples, a quick munch, and hiked home. My fingers were ready to fall off haha!
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Think how awesome your drive would be if everyone else walked!
Just curious: what about a normal bike? Is the distance too big or does it also hurt?
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Maybe you’d have been in a better shaped if the infrastructure around you were better, but who the hell knows.
Or maybe I’m disabled, lol. Who knows? It’s not like it’s my life or anything. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Yeah, walking definitely isn’t suitable for everyone. What we need is dense communities with layered and diverse transit options. High walkability, abundant protected bike infrastructure, and accessible mass and local transit.
so do you want the earth to magically shrink to be walkable or were u thinking ice age level migration style walking
Walkability is a matter of urban design. Only 20% of the US lives somewhere rural; 80% live in a city, suburb, or small town. We’re taking about how the 80% shops.
Walkability is about lot size, density in general, mixed use development (putting houses near restaurants and shops), parking minimums, that sort of thing.
Walkable areas tend to be connected by public transit. Look at Amsterdam - to get to work, you might bike to the train station, take a train, then walk or bike to the office. You don’t have to walk clear across the city; public transit connects walkable spaces.
Compare that with American suburban design, where shops are put far from houses, on ugly-ass loud dangerous stroads with comically oversized parking lots. You don’t walk anywhere because anywhere you’d want to walk to is incredibly unpleasant to exist in. People will literally drive in their car to a walking path or a gym treadmill.
![[meme] Being forced to drive isn't freedom — it's a government-mandated lifetime subscription to oil](https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/13b1a771-76a5-4af4-b41f-4c22fc9165a4.webp){kind=link}