I don’t really see the point of this. It’s just adding complexity for the sake of it. As far as I can tell when you change gear it just changes some software parameters, there are no physical gears. Yet there’s a clutch and the ability to stall?
The point would be to fill a niche for people who like driving manual, but want to transition to electric.
Probably won’t be very popular, but in this big world, there is a niche for everything.
It would be great if they could make a cheap electric car for the masses before filling niches.
This stuff trickles down. AC, auto headlights and windows, touchscreens, information centers, etc were all luxury options for luxury cars…
People in niches generally pay more. EVs are more expensive and made in smaller quantities (until production ramps up, maybe). So making EVs to appeal to a niche consumer with disposable income can be a smart move to jumpstart the EV business.
That’s (one reason) why Tesla started with luxury sports cars. Car enthusiasts and other lovers of manual gear shift are another interesting segment to try and tap. I wonder what other segments they might go for? Racing? Off-road? Delivery? Taxi? Commercial transport?
It’s tricky though. You don’t see a lot of EV motorcycles, but I think that’s because ebikes are a better power/weight ratio for the form-factor and use case. No one’s getting a Harley to save the environment.
The biggest reasons ev bikes suck are: shitty range, weight, cost.
Bikes are small, batteries are heavy. The Harley live wire, for example, can do less than 100 miles on a charge. Second, but part of that first point, they’re HEAVY. My bike weighs ~360lbs. An energica sport bike is in the high 500lbs range. Thirdly, they’re obscenely expensive for worse performance, handling, weight, range. If someone could produce a 400lb bike with a ~200 mile range I might be interested.
I’m biased, but 99.99% of my riding is in the middle of nowhere in the mountains, there’s no chargers out there and there won’t be for decades.
I’ve not seen an attempt to make a practical electric motorcycle. I’ve only ever seen attempts at superbikes. Give me an electric Ninja 250, something that can comfortably handle a couple hours of highway driving so you could handle a commute from one small town to another small town and I think it would be an actual product.
There are plenty of practical e-motobikes, they’re just made for people in normal countries where you don’t need to ride for more than 10-20km.
Kawasaki recently launched some entry level electric Ninjas, but they’re complete garbage for the price. $8000 for a bike with 10hp, 55mph top speed, and 55 miles of range. That should’ve been $4000 or less.
Just get a $3500 Grom with the same power and speed but also the fun of a mini-bike or a $6000 Ninja 400 with 5x the power and still 55mpg.
Kawasaki also just announced a hybrid Ninja motorcycle that actually looks really intriguing, but we don’t know the price yet.
Wow yeah that is garbage.
If I had the time, money, and knowhow my dream car is an electric swapped Datsun 240z. You can keep the manual transmission when you’re swapping an ICE car, I think it’d be pretty neat
I sort of get the point of the second one they mention - sounds like it can “emulate” hundreds of different cars, which could be fun.
HEEEELLLLL YYEEESSSS
I didn’t read the article, but in a modern ev I can only see merit in maybe 2 or three speeds plus reverse if it’s an actual transmission and not just a parameter change.
With the stick shift Honda civic converted to electric that I tried out when deciding if I wanted to convert my own, it had the original transmission and you really only used gear 2 and 4. You came to a full stop geared in, and changed directly to 2 while at 0 rpm. Definitely a strange experience to anyone used to stick shift.
I can see a practical use for this if the simulation is as genuine as claimed. If a driver wants to learn how to drive stick it seems these cars can be used for teaching it without risking damage like that of gears grinding. They could learn how to use a clutch before starting to learn to drive a sports bike, for example.
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Sure sure sure but I LOVE A MANUAL. Idk about how efficient an automatic is
I’ll never understand the “quickness” argument. Nobody buys a manual to shift faster than an automatic, they buy it for the experience.
I want one so I can wiggle it in neutral at a stoplight
Adding complexity… Motherfuckers are adding electric tailgate and auto wipers and you are worried about the manual transmission.
Still makes sense for the sports cars. But very few people on the planet want a manual EV daily. This will fail on commuter cars.
It makes no sense for EV sports cars. Manuals on ICE cars make sense because being able to chose exactly when the car shifts is important and because sequential shift and dual clutch transmissions are extremely expensive.
It absolutely makes sense.
How so? Would you mind explaining your reasoning because I honestly can’t think of a good reason to put fake stick shifts in EVs. From my point of view it’s the automotive equivalent of putting subway suffers clips on the bottom half of a tiktok.
Since it’s all software, it would surprise me if it can’t just be disabled when you’re not in the mood for fun. I think that will make it a bit more appealing to the masses.
That’s actually a good point I hadn’t considered.
It doesn’t tho. An automatic can outshift a human anytime. For purists, they put in paddles.
Being able to choose when to shift is often more important than how quickly you shift. Paddle shifters require expensive transmissions or some software trickery.
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- they aren’t
- most teams are using a sequential which is basically an auto with flappy paddles or a up down lever. You ain’t using a clutch except to get into first.
- because it’s a driving aid and people don’t like that shit. ABS is about the only aids people accept.
I don’t care if you’re fucking max verstappen, you ain’t shifting faster than a Porsche or Ferrari DCT.
The gears in motorsport are manual where as the gears in EV are software.
No one is using a manual in motorsports.
Define “motorsports”.
Time attack, drifting, autocross, and drag racers all have manuals used.
No drag racer ever used a powerglide? And would you really consider F1 cars to be manual?
They’re not all technically the same manual you have in a car. F1, for instance, shifts with buttons
At normal speeds gears do not make sense for a daily. At track speeds you’ll find most EVs, outside the 600+ bhp type models hit their top end. Having a second and third gear is helpful for that. Not shift speed.
Manual makes sense for people who are used to manuals. Like 95% of Europe. Driving an automatic is boring to me for example.
This seems cool and I want to try it out. It would be cool if you had the option to turn it on or off.
Why this is a feature like this important? There are people who feel that EV’s lack the soul and/or personality of ICE cars. There was a recent YouTube video I watched where one of the hosts described a tesla as being designed by “someone who thinks driving is a chore.” This feature would provide him and the people like him with EV’s that have personality.
I can totally see this feature enabling simulation of different power curves like a V8, V6, I4, with and without turbo’s and superchargers. I can also see the car tuner community designing their own torque curves which would be amazing. We can already adjust ICE car torque curves over the internet, why not EV’s?
We do think that EVs lack soul. However it isn’t because they lack a manual gearbox. It’s because they are treated like electronics devices. You are discouraged or outright blocked from repairing, tinkering, and modifying most EVs. They are all focused on peak efficiency or luxury, not towards a fun and engaging driving experience.
To be clear, I didn’t expect the first wave of EVs to be driver focused canyon carvers, but to get me into one they’ll need more than fake engine noises and simulated gearboxes.
Why are you getting downvoted? This would make an EV more fun to drive even if it isn’t the “real thing” and makes it slower within the mode.
The amount of people downvoting similar opinions in this thread is off the charts. These people need to get a grip.
Yeah, unless there is a performance benefit, it’s just a potential for problems. Theoretically, an electric motor could be designed with the rpm and torque output of an ICE where a manual transmission would be beneficial for a car. Electronically simulating a transmission is ridiculous.
Honestly most electric motors dont reach peak power until they get to high RPM… a transmission does still make sense if youre not using a tesla motor made to run at like 18k rpm. Why simulate it?
I love manuals. I daily a car with a manual transmission. I’d drive any other EV before I drove a fake stick shift EV.
Maybe an excuse to set two different prices, but charge more overall.
100%. Its like with hybrids, just add £10k onto a petrol engine price. Same cars
My hybrid escape gets double the gas mileage of my ice Soul. It’s not just slap 10k more on the same car… I can make lots of small trips almost entirely electric and just need the engine for highway and quicker acceleration.
With my hybrid my trip to the grocery store is 80mpg for the 3/4 miles I’m going, in my ice it’s 24
I guess so. My perspective is you may as well get a full EV, and stop using petrol entirely. Ive never seen hybrids as anything more than a scam in environmental measures. It does depend on circumstances but I dont see any reason to own an ICE now. Even EV earth movers with diesel generators are better, as you have zero tailpipe emissions on the carbon intensive acceleration parts of a drive.
Im sure you might get better acceleration in an ICE but ive driven quite a few and EV always wins on that front.
Full EV doesn’t make sense for me, I have to drive 300 miles around 8-12 times a year and EVs can’t really do that right now without stopping to charge and there’s no chargers in BFE America
Plug-in hybrids make a lot of sense, because most journeys can be taken fully electric, but when you want to go a weekender and your destination lacks chargers, you can use petrol. All in one car. That’s amazing and super practical!
you are easily impressed my friend. Im rather cynical and jaded
No, I’m a realist.
Well a hybrid car is significantly more complicated than a petrol car (multiple power sources that have to be integrated through the drive train), however I’m sure they stretch the pricing well beyond reasonable proportions.
It really depend though, Toyota’s HSD system replace the whole gearbox with a hybrid system that only has 2 planetary gear. It is not much bigger than a 7+ speed gearbox.
I have a friend who studied the Toyota Prius gearbox at university to try and figure out improvements, I can say for a fact that their drivetrain is trick as fuck. So in some sense it’s reasonable for them to charge a higher price and profit from their R&D work.
Like I say though, I’m sure they stretch the pricing well beyond what is reasonable.
i mean in practical user terms. what theyve done is add a battery which adds a handful of miles and adds an enormous cost for no practical benefit. The only real advantage to a hybrid is the use of battery motor off the lights 0-30mph, which is the most carbon intense part of any driving and worse as you increase weight.
It’s definitely something of a gimmick, like 3D TV, and especially in its early iterations. However you did just list a genuine benefit of hybrid technology. Also, I know someone with a Mercedes hybrid and that will go up to like 50 mph on battery only, and also delivers ridiculous acceleration like that I’ve only previously felt on motorbikes, all the while keeping fuel economy above 90 mpg and never bothering to plug it in. The only real downside is how much space the batteries take up in the boot.
the real downside is you cant drive for more than about 20 minutes!
Yeah, range in general is terrible with anything electric - and the UK isn’t even that big. New battery tech can’t come quickly enough.
most amusingly no torque when you suddenly try and accelerate in top gear,
That’s heroin for the carbon junkies, nothing more. I “look forward” to an armada of assholes trying to simulate asshole driver behaviour on an electric car 🙄
Ah yes because having a manual makes you an asshole driver xD
From my experience, yes.
May I introduce you to almost the entirety of European drivers? Like, 80% of euro cars are manuals
I’ve been to Europe. Your statement changes nothing.
Some people don’t need a manual transmission to be an asshole…
Yea I’m pretty sure most beemers are CVT these days.
A lot of the features listed in the article (written by an AI?) sound corny. This is probably a thing for managers and executive level luxurybros, like the upper level EV market.
The idea of giving the driver more control like this in an EV so it’s more fun is good though. They just feel so fkn heavy and like you’re driving a computer.
Will also give the car enthusiasts who like drifting an option to lock in “gear” so that’s a plus
Yeah exactly and just “spirited driving” in general, a Miata or Civic equivalent of EVs is what’s needed.
My ideal EV would look and drive like a 1989 VW GTI.
But apparently the best car companies can do is a chubby SUV looking thing.
Well, there’s been a few comments from car execs that small cars don’t make sense in the context of EVs. As you can get the footprint down to hatch size but it’s going to be way heavier than expected due to the battery and probably ride a bit higher to fit the battery skateboard
EVs will kill the hot hatch and that makes me very sad.
It’s already kind of dead in NA with some holdouts, the “crossover” mostly took over. Honda discontinuing the Fit here but introducing the HRV on the Fit platform is a perfect indicator of the overall trend.
Honda discontinuing the Fit here
I hadn’t heard this until now, and now I’m sad. The Fit was a great little car. Guess I better get one while they’re cheap.
you gonna make the ford hoes mad
You could convert your own?
If I had the time, money, and skill, definitely.
I agree 100% that my EV felt like driving a computer, which itself was driving the car.
Weird thing is I liked it. It was like driving a really good computer, that drove my car really well.
I can understand why people hate it. It’s deeply strange how certain kinds of normal car feedback is missing.
Speculating a bit, I doubt that retrofitting a manual transmission will help with that strangeness.
But I bet it’ll be a hit with folks like me who don’t mind it, and also loved manual transmission cars.
I feel like I’m a very niche audience though. Most people who I have met who love a manual transmission hated the way my EV drove.
on my egolf I have the stick. Its kind of cool to nudge into different regen modes coming off a motorway but its entirely useless as a device as its just telling the computer to switch mode.
I love a manual transmission on a car but this is really stupid.
