Don’t worry… The YouTube content creators you watch and support will do it for you.
Yep, leading to even more fomo
Remember that blizzard is microsoft
Lol it just barely came to pass. Blizzard didn’t wait for Microsoft to become dipshits.
They were planning to do so way before the acquisition went through. Diablo already had this and made a lot of money.
And now microsoft is ok with it. What OS do you use?
The heck does my OS have to do with anything?
If you have been playing WoW since release and have all the current expansions, $90 is barely anything! /s
I mean, yeah…?
If wow is the only game you play, and you have spent decades on it, it really is no money at all.
It still doesn’t make it right to lock the release behind a 90€ purchase.
Microsoft needs to get back the acquisition money somehow.
Only legislation will fix this.
You were never going to shop your way out of it.
holy shit legislating video game prices?
Try this on for size. Split them up, make them worker owned, or strip their IP and open source it. Send a message that anti consumer behavior is dangerous - that your investments could go to zero.
Blizzard and Activision stood up there at the ftc and promised their merger would lead to better products at better prices for customers. Their customers overwhelmingly disagree. Microsoft and Activision/Blizzard said the same. It’s all worse and more expensive.
Companies exist for people, not the other way around. They don’t have rights, they don’t have feelings, and if we do nothing everything we love will turn to shit.
We’re in the endgame. Companies are cannibalizing themselves and each other to desperately extend their profit growth for one more quarter. Not to mention, they do that by squeezing their customers just a little harder from all sides
We need rules and boundaries to the game, or this becomes the only workable playstyle for the board of every publicly traded corporation. We’re going to crash - we’ve colonized the whole world (or at least every place with resources highly profitable to extract). The rate of growth can’t increase - new markets and technologies will open up areas for growth now and then, but certainly not quarterly. Cannibalizing existing industries is going pretty damn fast, and either we stop it now or we stop it once everything is terrible and our technology sucks.
Either way, we’re going to have to tackle climate change and inequality…
You seem to be ranting about something else entirely, we’re talking about an announced price for a game
Could you provide me an example of when voting with your wallet worked?
Sure. See, im not gonna buy this game, and Im gonna still have my $90 dollars.
Someone else who does want that early access for $90 will get what they want.
That’s not even you voting with your wallet. That’s just you not buying a thing because it’s too expensive. That’s an example of price elasticity
Voting with your wallet is this flawed concept that consumers can control companies through individuals boycotting their products.
For example, I uninstalled hearthstone and quit Blizzard along with many others back when they let China censor a US esports player who commented on Hong Kong protests. But now I wouldn’t buy anyways, because their games suck and their payment schemes are obscene
All they know is they lost n customers in that time period, and failed to recover m
That’s just you not buying a thing because it’s too expensive.
yeah, that’s what Im doing. I am not hurt in anyway by not buying this thing, no one is making me buy it. That is an option for literally everyone, no one has to buy it. Im not a protesting activist trying to change Blizzard, Im simply not affected by this. The only people that are, are people that want to pay $90 for early access. If they dont want to, nobody is making them.
Could you explain to me how changing more for less is a good thing here?
Business model. Legislating the fucking business model.
Jesus fuck, what is it about this industry that makes people flip out about any sort of consumer protection? You know this is fucked up. You know “just don’t buy it!” will never help. What other possible solution do you imagine, besides telling companies to just sell a product, without any exorbitant double-dipping?
the business model of…charging too much money? No, I dont have any issue with this. I have a lot of issues with Blizzard, but this ain’t on the list. It sounds like a smart way to alleviate expansion launch server burden, giving both a much better experience for some, and an improved launch for the rest.
… it’s a subscription service! They already get a shitload of money, every single month. Don’t bemoan their server costs. That’s what you’re already paying for!
I didnt say server costs, I said server burden. Long queue times on launch day, server crashes, very unevenly distributed server load when everyone is in the same area at the start. I remember FF14’s latest expansion was so bad, they completely halted sales of it. Forget too expensive, there was no price, you could not buy it if you were late.
You dont have to pay $90, because you dont have to buy this early access. you dont have to buy the regular access. You are not entitled to this game as a human right, the developers didnt have to make this game, and they dont have to let you play it for whatever price you want. They get to decide the price.
Hair-splitting. They have your money already. Services breaking down is not a problem solved by charging more - as you point out, for FF14. Charging more than the price of an entire new game, for three fucking days of opt-in beta testing, is completely absurd.
Any form of taking your money for bullshit is reducing how much you can spend on things that matter. This ultracapitalist zeal for equating price and value only makes a lick of sense if it’s rational people making informed decisions - and there’s a thousand other ways we identify and forbid irrational uses of money.
Outright confidence scams have seen victims come back with more money, thinking it’ll work out this time. Revenue alone absolves nothing.
Yeah, charging more is a very common way to alleviate service congestion, like amusement parks. They have the same sort of early access for more money deals. or very popular dine in restaurants, concerts, anything where capacity is a concern really.
Any form of taking your money
They are not taking anything, they do not have access to your wallet or your bank account. You can choose to give them your money. No one is making you, you have all of your money to spend on things that matter. If this doesnt matter to you? Dont have to spend a cent on it. Make your own MMO and charge less for it.
You know this is fucked up.
I don’t see the issue to be honest. It’s three days… How is it substantially different from somebody waiting 3 months for the price to go down even more? What are you protecting against?
I don’t see the issue to be honest.
I think it’s fine too, for the general case of video games. If someone wants to pay some premium, several times a game’s price to get access a couple days or a week early, I mean, I sure as hell am not going to pay it, but if some people do and are willing to bear a larger portion of the development costs, fine. It’s not like I would have noticed or cared if a game’s release date was a week later. Besides, I’m going to wait for reviews to come out anyway.
I’ll also add that I’m not gonna get “premium” editions with some plastic doodads or artbooks or whatever, but there are clearly people who are willing to do that. If a game publisher wants to make the offer and someone else is willing to accept, I mean, okay, whatever makes them happy.
That being said, WoW is an MMO, and that does introduce different dynamics. I don’t play it, so I don’t know the specifics there. Like, a guild cannot play together if all of its members aren’t together at the same time, and maybe that puts pressure on all the members to buy early. It also sounds like there are some self-imposed challenges to try to be the first person to do various things, and I guess that there could be a pay-to-win element in that sense. Frankly, I don’t find doing that sort of thing to be much fun, but I suppose for people who do, maybe it’d be an issue. Maybe there’s something specific to WoW that makes it matter more than a typical video game there.
I think that in general, a lot of video game players would be a lot happier if they obsessed less about getting things exactly on release dates. I mean, the patientgamers crowd waits for at least a year before they look at a game. I wouldn’t go quite that far myself, but they still have fun playing games.
WoW has historically worked on a daily limit to progression model for the endgame, so the 3 day early access is potentially a 3 day permanent boost for the people who buy it. I would imagine competitive raiders going for world first and “clearing hard difficulty versions of raids while they’re current content” achievements and their related rewards will be essentially mandated to buy it.
As for gamers obsessing over things at launch, I wish it were different, but I think of it like movies or TV shows. If you go and watch a movie a year after it came out, nobody is gonna be talking about it anymore. And for some people, that social buzz around a new piece of media is half the fun. Playing a game and talking about it with your friends, the sense of discovery finding things out before you can just look it up on some wiki site, etc.
We need to also legislate in game transactions so you can’t get scammed in RuneScape anymore
Runescape’s real-money transactions should absolutely be illegal.
The fact they had to limit people to spending thousands of dollars per week - for fucking Runescape - is a giant flashing red light. In no universe is any public MMO worth ten thousand dollars per year. But that’s the kind of spending all games with real-money charges actively pursue.
If we allow this to continue there will be nothing else.
I don’t think we need laws to stop a few oil barons from risking it all in the wildy, you’re proposing such stupid overregulation lol. these are literally non issues
A few–?!
This is becoming EVERY GAME. Silent Hill has a battle pass! Silent Hill does not have battles! All of that shit is just lootboxes plus excuses. People finally recognize lootboxes are abusive nonsense. But all that’s changed is how they’re presented, so people can go, well, that was bad, but this is completely different slightly!
And all it takes to stop that from infecting the entire industry, is - stop charging real money, inside video games. A thing that was barely conceivable, fifteen years ago, when the industry was neither small nor broke. This grift takes in billions of dollars per year. Largely from children. And if you care as little about kids as I do - it’s also fucking up the entire medium of video games. Again: this is becoming every game. Nothing modern is safe. You can’t even reliably stay away, because it gets shoved into games, after people bought them.
If we allow this to continue, there will be nothing else. Only legislation will fix this.
Word salad.
‘How is an order of magnitude substantially different?’ is not a question I know how to answer without vulgarity.
Yes, but presumably the order of magnitude (waiting substantially longer) would be worse but you’re arguing the opposite… Why is waiting longer for a price cut better?
Ohhh, that’s a completely different angle than I thought you were going for.
It’s still ridiculous, though.
Price drops exist to encourage new people to pay. People who would not otherwise buy the thing, buy the thing. But - anyone who pays an exorbitant amount up-front, for a game with a monthly subscription, three days early, was fucking obviously going to buy the thing, full-price, day-of. This is just gouging. This is seeing how little they can offer, in exchange for completely arbitrary quantities of money.
If they offered a sliding scale where the price doubles for every extra day of early access - some addict with more money than sense may well drop tens thousand dollars, for an extra week. Which is obviously fucking nonsense. Please tell me you understand price and value are different concepts, and they can align, or they can not. Ten thousand dollars for one week of a game that costs ten dollars a month is complete absurdity, rivaled only by games charging more than the price of the entire full-price game for some stupid item inside that game.
That exploitation of irrational decision-making doesn’t begin at ten thousand dollars. Smaller-scale abuses of it are not better… just lesser.
I dont get your point about “Just don’t buy it” not working.
If consumers didnt think it was a fair price, then they wouldn’t buy it. People can live without a videogame, it’s not like this is a big pharma company raising prices on a life-saving drug.
Profit means ethical, says newborn babe, innocent and fresh.
What would this sort of legislation look like to you?
No recurring costs for products and no up-front costs for services. Not for fucking video games.
So wait, are developers supposed to labor for free then? I’m not sure how that’s even close to being feasible in any scenario.
“Subscription or price, not both.”
“So nothing?!?”
Stop talking.
You literally said “no recurring costs” (subscription) and “no up-front costs” (price). I’m not sure what other takeaway I was supposed to have from that comment.
Either way, it still sounds like you’re expecting developers to work for free, so that you can play video games without paying for them. That’s a really weird sense of entitlement, imo.
No recurring costs FOR PRODUCTS.
No up-front fees FOR SERVICES.
Jesus! This subject invites the most aggressively poor reading comprehension of any topic on the internet.
My entire fucking argument is JUST SELL GAMES, and people will bend over inside-out to find some way to scoff ‘you want it for free.’ Because apparently that’s the only position you’re prepared to deal with, y’might as well pretend that’s what’s happening.
I really don’t understand what difference “products” or “services” is supposed to make in this argument, though. Many games these days are a service, a fact which is inherently true for an MMO like WoW. MMOs require active and ongoing development and support in order to function. That’s just the nature of that type of game.
If you want single-player, offline games that only require a one-time purchase, those still exist. But WoW is not that game, and has no intention to ever be, nor do the players have any expectation that it would operate in such a manner.
Maybe instead of getting defensive, you could just clarify wtf you’re talking about, or at least take into consideration the context of live-service games, which is what this discussion is specifically about.
I’m all for legislation to fix scummy practices in areas where something is essential, i.e. transport, connectivity, food, etc. Or to counter predatory practices like gambling or lootboxes that prey on addicts or children. But in this case I feel like it’d be a bit too much. Nobody needs WoW, nor is it really (in my opinion) preying on addicts in the same way as gambling or lootboxes. If enough people are willing to pay such a ridiculous amount of money, then apparently this is really the value.
‘Exploiting people over nothing important is better, actually’ is a weird take.
‘If it sells it can’t be wrong’ is just fucking awful.
that is one of the worst ideas I’ve heard
Yeah god forbid we have laws about money. Can you imagine?
Governments shouldn’t tell companies what value their products have. Consumers should simply not buy the product if they dont consider it a fair value.
Consumers should simply not buy the product if they dont consider it a fair value.
Does that work?
Think long and hard about your answer. Does that, in fact, have the effect you insist it must? Or are there abundant counterexamples, where greedy horseshit makes bank for negligible value?
Consumers should simply not buy the product if they dont consider it a fair value.
Does that work?
Yes, it works. Source: Me, I don’t consider WoW’s costs to be a fair value for my time and interests, and have not bought their products or services.
It was really tough, though. I had to really fight my credit card who was just begging to be spent on WoW. But I pulled through.
Oh good, the protagonist of reality didn’t fall for it, so systemic issues aren’t real.
What a load… off my mind.
This isn’t a law about money, you’re proposing a law because a game is charging for early access lol. That is beyond stupid.
Consumer protection laws are entirely about your money.
This isn’t about money… this is about you not wanting a product to exist.
Stop lying to me about my own comments, god dammit.
I am talking about how this product is sold. At no point did I propose not selling it. That’s just the absurd extreme you lot always make up, whenever someone suggests a specific and recent business model is exploitative greedy horseshit.
I want games sold.
What’s happening instead - the status quo you’re sloppily defending - is having games treated as bottomless pits where you can throw all your money, for asymptotically smaller fractions of content that’s already in the game. Or being a subscription service that also demands too much fucking money up-front, as if it was a concrete product being sold anew - and offering a bottomless pit where you can throw all your money.
That shit is what’s happening to every game. Every genre has this. Every platform has this. Single-player games have this. It is the dominant strategy. Everyone scoffing ‘just don’t buy it!’ has seen their glib advice accomplish precisely dick. If we allow this to continue, there will be nothing else. Only legislation will fix this.
Early access is a product. Your comment is asking for laws to prevent this product from existing. You are asking for early access products to be illegal. Your comment is literally that stupid. Not a single part of any of my comment has to do with the ethics of this practice, so stop lying to me about my own comments.
Take your money and spend it somewhere else. That’s the only sound corporations can hear.
spends money in call of duty
these people deserve the shit they are getting, a bunch of addicts for a shitty mmo that killed one of my most favorite rts franchises (and for that ill never not be salty about it), which got brought back like a rotting carcass by arthas only to be killed off again
World of Warcraft is good.
Terrible that Blizzard decided not to continue Warcraft the RTS along with it.
It’s a big loss, and I understand you. But WoW fans formed a culture that is no inferior to that of Warcraft fans. If anything, we should celebrate the history of the Warcraft world still rolling, and calling for Warcraft IV. There’s a lot to update.
after what they did with reforged, id rather they kill, i dont need a third case of advance wars reboot camp all over again
I honestly don’t understand people. Just don’t buy the fucking game then.
You’re taking about wow. That’s like telling a junkie not to buy their next fix.
Tell me about it. This was a long time ago but I remember one of my friends couldn’t even go a day without doing his dailies. He wasn’t even interested in WoW anymore, he was playing a bunch of other games. But he absolutely had to login every day just to do his dailies then log out and play the game he actually wanted to play.
This went on for months. When we asked him why, he would just say he didn’t want to miss out and fall behind. Bro, you aren’t even interested in the game anymore…
When i was a teenager I played for legitimately 15 hours at least per day. I wasted my life for two years on that game. It was absolutely all I cared about. I missed being there for my grandfather’s death. I decided to play instead of sitting with my dog that had a herniated disc in his back (had to be put down the next day) and plenty of other life events. I feel like a piece of shit looking back on it, but it was a real addiction.
Then one day my stupid little character was standing in Orgrimmar and I realized I had nothing left to do, and it was all just a waste of time. I don’t play games anymore. To some people they are fun time wasters, but to people like me they are a disease.
I just wanted to show some appreciation for sharing your experience. Speaking candidly about difficult subjects really can help people.
I don’t game much either there’s days.
I want to though. Nothing holds my interest like it used to. When a fromsoft game or a deep crpg comes out that isn’t made by Larian I love every minute of getting sucked in but it’s all over too quick and I’d rather play checkers with the wall than pull the lever on another digital skinner box. It doesn’t appeal. It never did. Fuck off.
deleted by creator
This is what I’ve been doing with Eve Online for about 10 years. I login every couple months just to make sure my training queue isn’t empty. I don’t even know how to pilot any of the ships I’m trained in now.
Hey, I finally kicked my WoW habit.
I mean I started FFXIV right after, but it’s a start!
Just keep it to one character. FFXIV gates your reward endgame. You can’t just farm as much as you want. So you don’t have to spend too much time keeping up.
But if you start running multiple high level characters you have a problem.
We need a rehab MMO for them that gets them the same high but is easy to unhook from.
https://piped.video/watch?v=YersIyzsOpc
Idk, can’t load piped…
Don’t pay for early access/pre-release.
AAA Studios treating game development like kickstarters.
It’s very shitty. Starfield did this, but it’s not the same to do it for a singleplayer game than to do it for the competitive multiplayer part of the fanbase who will try to rush the expansion.
It divides the player base and ensures that ingame achievements like world-first DLC dungeon completion or boss kills are invalidated or at least muddied within the community.
Just look at Diablo 4, it had a similar system and all it did was kill the hype. Not that I think D4 would have been a staple without that crap, but it certainly felt like it was damaging the reception even further.
D3 was also a dumpster fire at release, and yet Kripp and Krippi’s co-op run for world first Inferno Diablo HC is legendary. One of the very few positive talking points about that game.
If you don’t want it, don’t buy it. I hate this idea but in also too competitive to not buy it.
If you don’t like wow, then don’t play it. Spending minutes of your life to tell everyone about how much you hate something is just sad.
When something you desire, or that you are invested in, is thrown around like hot garbage, you can and should complain. One should always call out shitty company practices what they are: shitty practices looking for a quick buck. It might not change anything in the end, but at least it can’t be said that “nobody cared”
And yet people will pay it and the cycle continues.
If they didn’t stop from abusive micro transactions, half-ass launches, mocking players about mobile phones, overworked devs, a sexist frat boy culture, women leaving over sexual abuse, or a employee who committed suicide (!)… then nothing will.
The average player doesnt know about any of this. The average player doesnt think about these things. The average player is not you or me.
wow doesn’t have MT
WoW has micro transactions, including: level boost, several exclusive cosmetics (mounts, armors, weapons), exclusive pets.
You can also buy game time with cash and resell it for gold, so an indirect and limited cash for power, too. I know these have been around at least since BfA, dunno if Legion already had them
Not only that, this is by design. They want their early testers to be a small group of people who are heavily invested in the game, both mentally and financially.
Sure, a lot of people are going to be mad about being “excluded”, but how many of them are going to actually boycott the expansion when it releases because of it? The ones are maddest are the ones who most want to play it and are unlikely to walk away.
There was always going to be a small group of players that got to play it before the majority of the playerbase. The only difference is the $90, and that price is well worth it to a lot of the big fans.
Who pre purchases this early? The release date is “on or before December 31, 2024. Lol
Tools. Tools pre-order this early. Also, tools play Blizzard games, in general.
That’s right around the corner compared to Star Citizen.
People love to be scammed.
But look, guys, you asked for this by saying you want us to pay staff better. We will, but first we need to increase some prices heavily because I only took this CEO job because of the juicy bonus and I’m definitely not giving that up. Would you? And don’t forget the board we’re so lucky to have who need their stipends and stock grants etc, lest they find other companies willing to bow to their demands. We wouldn’t be who we are if we didn’t keep paying the top dogs top dollar.
You had me in the first half, not gonna lie.
Gonna play a bit of devil’s advocate, think of a popular MMO like an amusement park, selling a service that several people are using at once, a service that has a certain capacity, and that the quality of that service tends to degrade the more full that capacity is. Long wait times in lines, crowded, noisy, messy. MMO’s have the same problems, and emphatically more at expansion launch.
Both services are also focused on immersion, and experiences are much improved when it’s not crowded. An early access pass for an amusement park has to be prohibitively expensive or limited to achieve a good experience.
Blizzard’s shit, but if FF14 did something like this I’d probably go for it.
Amusement parks can’t just spin up extra servers to handle load at peak times. Video games can. Also there is not a complex economy and ranking system that pits guests against each other at an amusement park.
The comparison is not even remotely reasonable.
Your points doesn’t make his points invalid. And the other way arround.
They also need bandwidth infrastructure. Like theres reasons ff14 stopped sales of its new expansion instead of just “spinning up extra servers”. Theyre not installing a direct line from your house to their server, data from around the world is converging on data centers through utility data lines.
