I don’t even understand the point of webp. Why do we need to make pngs and jpegs smaller? Who has internet that can’t handle those files most of the time? It’s not like people are posting 500 mb images.
Cell connectivity.
A physical internet connection doesn’t have many issues as at all with bulkier formats, but cell networks – especially legacy hardware that is yet to be upgraded – will have more issues sending as much data (i.e. more transmission errors to be corrected and thereby use up more energy, whereas the power cost of transmission error correction for cabled networks is negligible).
Even when I have one bar, as long as I have a connection, I won’t have a problem with a 50k png. A screenshot on my 27" monitor is less than that. And the legacy hardware was designed with pngs and jpegs in mind because they didn’t have webp at the time. So that really doesn’t make sense to me.
It’s less about individual small screenshots (PNGs for example are pretty large with real photographs, which can take minutes to load with a bad connection) and more about multiple images on one site. User retention is strongly affected by things like latency and loading speed. The best way to improve these metrics is to reduce network traffic. Images are usually the biggest part of a page load.
Large companies that serve a ton of content. CDNs, image hosts, Google, Facebook, etc. 1% of their traffic adds up to a lot.
Also people in limited bandwidth situations - satellite links, Antarctica, developing countries, airplanes, etc.
Finally, embedded systems. The esp32 for example has 520kb of ram.
But maybe 500 people are posting 1 MB images? These concepts ain’t hard, mate.
If your web page has 1 mb jpegs, sure, you need webp. Because you don’t know how to add appropriately-sized images.
Again, a jpeg of png of a 27" monitor screenshot is like 50kb.
Please extrapolate a bit. I used the numbers to make it easy for you. Let’s try again.
10 000 people posting 50 KB images. And we are right back where we started. Webp is objectively better than old JPEG.
Also, “a jpeg of(‘or’?) a png of a 27” monitor screenshot" makes no sense. Jpegs and pngs are not the same filesize for the same image, and the diagonal dimension of a monitor is irrelevant. Are we talking 1080p, 1440p, or 2160p?
That’s not how Macs work.
Neither do I. I’ve heard so much from so many people about it being a ‘better’ extension in all these ways but I mean… it just comes off like audiophile-style conversations about how this specific record player with x speaker set allows for the warmth better than this other set that costs the same amount of money. That amount being your blood, various organs, and the life energies of everything in a 50 mile radius.
How is it better when no one fucking supports it?!
Um, not to be nosy, but, how did you get from money to flesh, blood and life energies?
Where I’m from, a frigid corner of the 9th circle of hell, both the United States Dollar and Tears of the Innocent are used interchangeably.
Makes sense, best of luck on your harvest ^^
You should look into investing first borns. Highly lucrative section of the tears of the innocent market.
When your site serves each user 20+ images and you get millions of unique users a year, saving 25-35% on each image translates into a LOT of saved bandwidth
It’s not about the bandwidth and ability when you’re reducing file size. It’s the aggregate of doing so when the site has a large number of those files, multiplied by the number of times the files get pulled from a server.
It’s conserving size for the provider. Most commercial servers have metering.
Webp
Developed by google, for google products.
Not guaranteed to work with google products (looking at you google voice.)
Guaranteed support will be dropped at random in the future.
Probably because nobody uses it.
The whole “Google will kill it” meme is a self fulfilling prophecy.
Google creates thing.
Everyone thinks Google will kill that thing, so nobody uses it.
Google kills the thing because nobody uses it.
And the cycle continues.
Dunno about “nobody.” Tons of sites use it. Hell, Telegram uses it for stickers exclusively. We use it everywhere on my job’s website
Which is probably why webp still exists.
Most of the other things killed by Google follow this trend. Stadia is a glowing example of this self fulfilling prophecy.
Though, in the case of stadia, IMO, they should have probably worked harder to let people know that as long as you have a Google login and something to play with, you could have tried it without buying anything. There were a number of trials on the platform that were free to play. Since people didn’t generally know that, a lot were relying on reviewers to form an opinion, and most of the reviews were early access and wrought with issues that were quickly fixed.
I miss stadia.
Comparing any of the services or applications that Google has created to a file format is not a fair comparison at all.
The Google Way.
It’s straight up better though
AVIF wants to know your location
With Alexandrite (a.lemmy.world for example) you can activate or deactivate webp.
Sync user!
Isn’t sync proprietary?
I don’t think so, but it might be
Just rename the file extension to .png. Works for me.
or jpg. you’re just tricking your os to hand-off opening the file to your default image viewer.
Yeah, that image viewer is likely using an image library that supports WebP without the image viewer devs being aware of that.
I’ve run into webp saving game screenshots for backgrounds in the past and figured that trick out.
WebP is awesome. So is JPEG-XL.
JPEG and PNG are archaic and should die already.
.jxl is also coming btw
I think webp is great but every time I download a webp meme to send it to my Facebook-only friends, I have to take a screenshot of the image because for some reason messenger doesn’t recognize webp images. Like cmon Zuck why can’t you do anything good…
JPEG will never die. Too many things support it at a very basic level. A random CCD camera module on DigiKey probably has an option for direct JPEG output. An 8-bit Arduino will know how to take that JPEG and display it on a cheap 4" LCD screen off Bang Good.
Formats that sprawl everywhere like that will never, ever die.
(Which makes JpegXL even better)
I’m a little out of the loop on webp. What makes it problematic?
A lot of things don’t support it yet, but it’s technically a better compression format
better compression that’s often configured wrong by site admins and the quality is shit-tier.
Not really.
Better than JPEGxl?
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Nope. JPEG XL is more modern and delivers lower file sizes without fucking up image quality as much. Downside is that, right now, JPEG XL is actually supported by even less things, because it is still so new.
But it is an industry standard rather than just Google trying to push its own thing, so I do expect it to overtake WebP in a few years.
JPEG XL’s name sucks, tho. Nothing’s perfect.
just call it JXL like a normal person
How are we saying that out loud? “Jexel”?
jayexell
If it’s anything like .gif, fuckers will insist on pronouncing it as “Gexel”
Is this “the sound you make when you get your sexual organs trapped in something”?
Google dropped support for it in favour of avif, just so they can push their own shit again.
I use an extension that automatically converts it. I can’t stand webp
If it’s for firefox then I’m gonna need the name of said extension
Not OP, but I’ve been using WebP / Avif image converter for many months now and am very satisfied with it.
I love you
Stamets, I hope this isn’t weird, half the time I find something I actually comment on, it’s one of your posts. Why is that?
Wow weirdo
You’re not the only person to share that sentiment. I post a lot. Few reasons.
- To try and help build Lemmy. Need to have an influx of new material consistently or things get stale and drop off.
- To make other people sick of me so they start posting themselves which just goes back to point 1.
- Because I am suicidally depressed and the constant posting/reacting to notifications distracts me from my own problems long enough that I get to breathe without hating the fact that I am.
- I have been stockpiling stuff for years for seemingly no reason. By posting, I can justify my past memegoblin behavior.
- It’s fun
Ah yes. I, too, exist merely out of spite lmao
I don’t save comments often, but I saved this one. Trying to deal with this format is exceedingly tedious at scale
yo just search for “save webp as” firefox extension. I got it specifically for this (lots of d&d sites use webp)
bro it’s an image format how does it affect you in any way? “oh no this file is .webp rather than .png my life is over”
It performs no better than existing formats and only serves to fracture format adoption and usage with no benefit. In fact it has costlier compression, and currently has exploited vulnerabilities with a cvss over 8. If you have no techical interest in the subject, you could at least not be an asshole.
It performs significantly better than existing formats what are you talking about
I’m not sure if this will work for everyone, but when I want to share something from the web with my iphone, I just change the file name from “somememe.webp” to “somememe.png” and it works fine.
The problem is rather the opposite of the meme. The file format is fine, but there is so little effort into making it happen.
If we were trying then I should be able to upload webp images everywhere. The most egregious is websites that will convert jpg and png uploads to webp but don’t allow webp upload.
webp isn’t fine, it has a ton of vulnerabilities because it’s not a safe file format. It gets to do too much and it’s insecure for that reason. That’s why you can’t upload your own webp but conversion to it is fine
The format is fine. The rate of bugs in image parsing code in general is alarming but that is true of just about all the formats.
it has a ton of vulnerabilities because it’s not a safe file format
Its a high compression image file, ffs. If someone sends you a 10 mb .webp file, that should be setting off alarm bells right off the bat. Even then, I have to ask what the hell your Windows Viewer app thinks it should be allowed to do with the file shy of rendering it into pixels on the screen.
I mean, it sounds like you’re saying, “I don’t know how it can be dangerous, therefore it’s not dangerous.”
All I’m hearing is that “its not safe” without further details. And given the utility relative to .jpeg, I’d like more on the table than just “Don’t do it! Unsafe!”
I agree the claim requires more evidence and it would be foolish to just take it at face value, but even if my intuition told me it was intrinsically safe I wouldn’t place any degree of trust in my own logical conclusions, or discount someone else’s warnings, however spurious.
The burden of proof should never be on the accuser when it comes to safety, in my opinion, or anything else of public concern. And the standard of proof should be higher to show that everything’s ok than to show that it’s not. At least in an ideal world.
I wouldn’t place any degree of trust in my own logical conclusions
Okay, but then why use .jpeg?
The burden of proof should never be on the accuser when it comes to safety
How does the .webp protocol demonstrate itself at least as safe as any other standard format? There’s no established safety standard for image protocols that I’m aware of.
It would be nice if mobile browsers/apps would convert them. When I save a webp and want to share it… Whelp, can’t do that - doesn’t even show up in the list of images.
Or if OS and media apps would simply Support it like they do with dozens other media formats
I host my own server for playing TTRPGs on and webp saves me a lot of storage space and bandwidth.
If I didn’t have an extension to convert to PNG then idk what I would do. I guess I’d just stop sharing memes forever because the corporates made meme sharing technology proprietary? That’s sad as hell.
Webp is not proprietary
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Works for me.
