Perhaps you’ve noticed. We have reached a tipping point in the country over tipping.
To tip or not to tip has led to Shakespearean soliloquies by customers explaining why they refuse to tip for certain things.
During the height of the COVID-19 pandemic, customers were grateful for those who seemingly risked their safety so we could get groceries, order dinner or anything that made our lives feel normal. A nice tip was the least we could do to show gratitude.
But now that we are out about and back to normal, the custom of tipping for just about everything has somehow remained; and customers are upset.
A new study from Pew Research shows most American adults say tipping is expected in more places than it was five years ago, and there’s no real consensus about how tipping should work.
I’ve stopped using tipped services entirely now. The only tipping I do is for a waiter at a sit down restaurant.
The mini mart under my building asks me to tip when all I’ve done is bring what I want to a counter. It’s infuriating because there’s no reason for it, it’s literally just there to guilt people into an extra few bucks.
This is my test, essentially, too.
To put more detail around my lines:
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Order at counter and food brought to me may be 5-10% on the upper end
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Order at table, food delivered to table - normal tipping rules
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Everything else? Please stop asking and starting paying a living wage or as close as you can.
If I’m going to tip someone for taking my order, then it’s either insulting to those who perform table service or the top tip % has to go up. I say people should get paid by their employer and let’s end this tip thing.
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You should tip gig workers too. They aren’t getting even half of what you pay. Some rides/deliveries are literally 3 dollars without a tip.
Ugh, gig workers need to be brought into some semblance of a minimum wage. Uber and Doordash are just techstortion.
I agree but just like restaurants please don’t punish the drivers.
I just refuse to order off Uber Eats or Doordash. Does that count as not punishing the drivers?
Yeah. If the business model isn’t viable then it will change.
Just don’t use services that rely on exploiting the most vulnerable workers.
When you’re hungry, learn how to cook pasta or something.
Nah I’ll just curl up in a corner.
I don’t use gig services because of the tipping. I’ve cut out any food delivery and don’t use Uber/Lyft. I’m not tipping on top of the +25% service charges those services add.
Lol, read that the other way at first. That’s perfectly fine.
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And again, why is that my problem?
The only time I’d tip is for delivery. I don’t even count it as a tip, I consider it a “don’t spit in my food” tax.
and there’s no real consensus about how tipping should work.
Versus how is always worked before?
Because there is consensus on that, it was a very straightfor rule.
The tip was a private transaction between a customer and an employee who went above and beyond the service that the employees’ boss require them to do, to perform the job to the customer’s satisfaction.
It had nothing to do with the boss or the company they were working for (no tipping automation on the registers, etc.).
And it wasn’t ever used in lieu of the employee receiving enough of an income at the company they worked at.
And it wasn’t ever used in lieu of the employee receiving enough of an income at the company they worked at.
Unfortunately that is not true. Restaurants in most states in the US have a law that allows employers to pay tipped employees a much lower wage (about 2 bucks an hour) with the expectation that tips will bring them back up to minimum wage or higher.
I’m talking about the past, not the current situation.
Versus how is always worked before?
Because there is consensus on that, it was a very straightforward rule.
The vast majority of people had living wages back then.
The article is saying “before” as in “before the changes that happened because of COVID”. I don’t know when the inflection point was where we shifted to shit wages for traditionally tipped jobs, but it was many many years ago. When COVID hit we were not giving living wages to servers.
The article is saying “before” as in “before the changes that happened because of COVID”.
During the height of the COVID-19 pandemic
But now that we are out about and back to normal, the custom of tipping for just about everything has somehow remained;
No. Tipping culture 100% existed before COVID. This isn’t an opinion. It’s well documented. You are either willfully ignorant or a troll. This discourse has run its course.
This discourse has run its course.
“So shall it be written, so shall it be done.” /waveshandsabout
Important to add that they’re legally required to make up the difference if it comes in below minimum wage, though this is often skipped.
Nor is minimum wage a viable income.
Restaurants in most states in the US have a law that allows employers to pay tipped employees a much lower wage
You should check the year that those laws were implemented. They are a more recent phenomenon.
Also as it’s been mentioned by someone else already, those laws included clauses to make sure if the tips were below minimum wage the employees income earned would be raised to minimum wage.
And as an aside (as I’m sure somebody will mention this), I’m not saying that minimum wage is a living wage.
But that is a different subject than the one that’s being discussed here, the responsibility of customers to tip employees so that they may have a living wage, in lieu of employers paying employees a living wage directly.
Like with every single thing that humans try to do to help each other, corporations have figured out how to exploit it for themselves.
We feel like tipping helps people because literally handing money to someone SHOULD help them. Except what actually happens is that corporations, with the full support of the government that they own, simply use that social convention to offset the wages that they have to pay their staff.
Reminder that tipping only exists because of racist and greedy motives, not because of people being nice. Sure, you could tip because you’re nice, and there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that, but we were told to tip from the beginning to keep blacks underpaid in their shitty service industry roles. Tipping started at the top, not the bottom.
I don’t tip to pay their wages. I tip for good service. If you provide good service you get a tip. If your attitude sucks or your service sucks you don’t get a tip. You want more? Then go above and beyond.
If the problem was outside of your control or impossible for you to correct or know even existed it won’t affect the tip. I try to tip in cash.
There’s only one thing I still do that requires tipping, and that’s because I want to get tattoos. After I started seeing tipping screens at restaurants where I pick up my food at the counter, I stopped eating out entirely. I don’t even do fast food. I’m tired of trying to remember or decipher what is socially expected and am just done participating in that system. Just pay people a living wage, charge what you need to charge for that, and if you’re offering a worthwhile service, you’ll be fine.
Just pay people a living wage, charge what you need to charge for that, and if you’re offering a worthwhile service, you’ll be fine.
Someone tell me the reason why this would get downloaded?
I wanted to know if it’s ever appropriate to walk away and not leave a tip?
“No,” Sokolosky said.
She said people are trying to make a living.
“I always feel grateful, frankly, that I can tip,” she said.
No, I think this goes to show that the whole idea that people will cry if prices are raised to increase wages is a lie. People who buy products and services want the people who are tasked with delivering those products and services to make a good living. They are willing to pay more in the form of tips; they will be willing to pay more in the form of prices. Just give people raises already ffs.
(And that’s not to say that prices will actually increase all that much if wages increase because that’s also mostly a lie told to protect corporate profit margins.)
Prices would raise, because they always raise to however much people are willing to pay for it. As long as people are tipping, they’re voluntarily adding that instead of waiting for the market to correct for it. That said, you are also correct that prices are NOT the only place that businesses will go to protect their margin. If margins get too low to run a business due to labor, rents will have to decrease to keep businesses in the buildings. Similarly, if margins increase too much, landlords will increase the rent.
There’s a faulty assumption in here that I was to call attention to: it’s the it’s that capitalist companies are charging less than the market will bear.
100% of the time, prices are as high as they can possibly be. There’s no situation where a company says, “we could charge them $5, but let’s charge them $4”.
If we stopped tipping and people got raises, the balance would have to come from CEO salaries (etc) which is what they’re really saying when they say they can’t do it.
That said, for situations where tipping has become kind of expected but not required (eg baristas, who are paid minimum wage, but not eg waitstaff who are paid less than minimum wage), the expectation that prices have to go up to account for raised wages will raise “what the market will bear.”
Maybe not for deliveries? Since everyone already thinks delivery fees are tips? Idk.
It was understood if you take a bottle of water from the cooler and place it on the counter, the only extra was a thank you to the cashier.
I’ve run into this and it’s bullshit. No.
I wanted to know if it’s ever appropriate to walk away and not leave a tip?
“No,” Sokolosky said.
Also bullshit.
ETA: And this was a stupid article that was poorly written. The interview subject also had little insight. This wouldn’t have been upvoted if the topic wasn’t viscerally felt by USA citizens because there was nothing said.
I never tip anywhere I’m just picking up food and paying at the register. It annoys me as a customer and I wish they would quit asking.
I stopped going to Domino’s because of this. I’m not tipping when I’m the one picking up the pizza.
I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again. Leaving tip at the counter or for take out food is just incomprehensible to me. It’s like tipping a grocery store clerk at check out when you are paying for your groceries. I bought this food already, what am I leaving a tip for?
This shit started to pop up in Europe. I only tip when the service was above average. And a tip is 5 bucks on top of a 100 CHF meal.
Now they ask for tips at food trucks. Yes 0 is the appropriate tip for that.
Hardly surprising it’d come to europe same time as the cost of living crisis.
Tipping has been prevalent in many Europeam countries for decades, though the amount is usually less than in the US.
Point probably still stands, the places in the US where service industry workers are the most openly hostile over any argument about tipping are places where the cost of living is the most out of pace with service worker incomes.
Wouldn’t be hard to imagine it’s similar across the pond.
The first comment on that article when I read it, the guy says he will not tip his delivery driver if there’s a delivery fee. I can’t believe that after all these years, people still think that a driver is going to see one cent of a delivery fee. I remember Pizza Hut implementing a $1 or $2 delivery fee back in the late 90s, and our tips took a big hit. Back then, I figured that was just a learning curve, and eventually soon people would understand that it is not part of a driver’s compensation, but I guess here we are, 25+ years later.
Please don’t punish workers for a corporation’s greed. A delivery fee is not a tip.
How about employers paying livable wage to their workers.
The whole forced tipping is bizzare. And the fact that for some reason workers are seeing it as a conflict with a customer and vice versa is also weird. Businesses are screwing with both parties and pushing the blame.
Sincerely, an European.
I’m generally against tipping because in my part of Canada, tipping is “supposed to be” about 15~20%, yet we pay servers no less than any other service worker. A server gets paid the same hourly wage as a McDonalds worker.
Delivery drivers are where I still feel fine about tipping. They’re often paying for their own vehicles and gas, insurance, all kinds of added expenses. But they’re making the same hourly rate as someone in a restaurant.
Stop agreeing to work for greedy corps and then getting upset when customers pay the advertised price
I can’t believe that after all these years, people still think that a driver is going to see one cent of a delivery fee
Let’s get one thing straight - if the customer paid a fee for delivery, and you didn’t get paid for doing your job? That’s your problem to solve, my dude. It’s not solved by introducing a tip, it’s solved by people refusing to work for corporations with bad practices, or striking, or unionising.
To be honest, I’m really getting tired of tipping. I don’t see any waiters or delivery drivers trying to save my job from getting outsourced to another country, so why am I all of a sudden responsible to help them fight the corpos?
Ding ding ding.
Stop working for shit wages and shit corporations.
Here in the UK most takeaways charge a delivery fee but pay the drivers a set hourly / nightly rate whether it’s busy or quiet. Expecting people to pay twice for delivery isn’t acceptable.
Waitstaff get paid well below minimum wage; tips are required to make up the difference.
Delivery drivers - and everyone else who isn’t waitstaff - get paid minimum wage. It sucks, but that’s the deal.
This is regional, some places don’t have reduced min wage for tipped employees. Servers make the same min wage as everybody else and earn tips on top of that.
Really? I didn’t know that. Everywhere I’ve worked (which isn’t everywhere but it’s 4 states in the East coast and the deep south), the waitstaff got $3.10 - but I admit it’s been over a decade.
In the us, tips are not required to make up the difference, tips are allowed to make up the difference. By encouraging tipping culture you are directly allowing the business to offload its wage costs directly to the consumer.
“An employer of a tipped employee is only required to pay $2.13 per hour in direct wages if that amount combined with the tips received at least equals the federal minimum wage. If the employee’s tips combined with the employer’s direct wages of at least $2.13 per hour do not equal the federal minimum hourly wage, the employer must make up the difference.” - https://www.dol.gov/general/topic/wages/wagestips
Your broad generalization on employee salaries is also dishonest of course.
For example, when I worked as a delivery driver, I was initially paid how you explained (except I also got a minimum $2 per delivery) However, it was changed to being paid minimum wage while inside the store and $2.13 while actively on a delivery, and the minimum per run was increased to $2.50.
Obviously every business is different in how they structure pay.
I had no idea delivery drivers were paid like waitstaff - that’s fucked up
Your broad generalization on employee salaries is also dishonest of course.
Hey now, be nice - Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
Nah, that’s not the deal. If it were the deal, you wouldn’t see waitstaff fighting against getting rid of tips in favor of a fair wage because they make more in tips
Here in Australia the fee is higher and meant to cover costs like petrol and car maintenance.
But then again we don’t have a tipping culture, so I probably shouldn’t even be here.
Except to say to big companies: stop trying to enforce tipping culture here, it’s not going to happen.
Only delivery and restaurants that bring your food to you and bartenders get tips. That’s it. Fuck you subway I’m not tipping a sandwich artist. Fuck you Chinese buffet restaurant no tip I went and got up and got my own food.
Start being aggressive about it and I’ll go 100% Mr. pink and nobody gets tips ever.
I never tip these days. It’s a band-aid solution that needs to end.
When tipping, either the customer is getting fucked or the employee; never the owner. I choose to fuckover the employee because they’d rather fuck me and lots of them support tipping culture saying “they make more in tips.”
Well, good. You can “make more in tips” without me. I guess that way everyone literally wins.
While this is extreme, I understand why you would do this. I just call first and see if they require tip before I go. If they do, then I don’t go.
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Haha I love getting help from working class waitstaff that the system has exempted from minimum wage, stiffing them, and then bragging about it online.
Why? Because I’m an edgelord piece of shit.
Yes, tipping culture is wrong, but the doesn’t make you some moral leader, or not a dick. You’re just a sad little person who gets off on being a douchebag.
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You’re part of the problem
Yikes.
Tipping needs to end. It’s the employer’s responsibility to make sure their employees are paid reasonably. Instead they pass that responsibility to the customer, ensuring tension between customers and staff.
There’s nothing wrong with tipping. I like the option to reward someone who made my experience great. Keyword there is option. Employers should pay employees a living wage, and if customers want to reward a great job with a few bucks on top of that, that should be allowed, even encouraged, but should never feel obligated to tip or shamed for not tipping.
You should feel ashamed for making someone act as your slave for minimum wage. The least you could do is pay them what they’re worth.
If you don’t like it, don’t force tipped workers to work for you. You have full control here. You could just cook your own damn food.
I said living wage, homie, not minimum wage. I think everyone should be paid at least a living wage, I just said tipping in general isn’t bad - it just shouldn’t be used to supplement poor wages.
Okay, but they don’t have a living wage, so you don’t get to have that option. Either tip or stop using those services.
What fucking conversation do you think you’re a part of? Because you’re clearly not reading my comments before responding to them.
You said customers should never feel obligated or ashamed. Never. I definitely feel ashamed of using these services and feel obligated to tip generously, and you should too.
You’re either intentionally being obtuse or are just plain stupid. Customers SHOULDNT be in a position of being forced to tip or be ashamed for normal acitivitues. Absolutely required tipping should not be a thing. It should be optional. It doesn’t matter what the current culture is, because that’s not the conversation. That’s the point.
So we’re in agreement then? Why are you lighting me up when we’re clearly on the same side? You need to learn to recognize an ally and save the anger for someone who deserves it, or you’ll find yourself without any allies.
lol no.
Pretty sure you’re not responding to the employer
The customer creates the demand.
Been in Japan this summer. A culture where tipping is non-existent. It was such a great experience to not worry about tipping. Instead you simply get outstanding service all the time and workers are simply paid a fair wage.
It’s almost like the profit motive is corrosive and requires stringent safeguards else it’ll corrupt and destroy everything… for profit!
I used to be a consistent tipper.
Now I refused to tip at all.
I want workers to demand what they are worth to their employers, and I’m willing to be the asshole to help them accomplish that.
If we all stopped tipping, they’d have no choice but to turn the low wage issue around onto their employers. Then employers will have no choice but the pay their workers more, because otherwise they’d leave their industry for something else.
I don’t care if that means we, as consumers, have to pay a bit more for the food and service. I don’t care if that means that some businesses won’t survive. I want fairness all around
Haha. Rosy. Rosy pink.
Mr. Pink.
Cute :)
You remind me of Taco Bell, you smell good but you’re going to destroy my asshole later ;-)
I refuse to tip anywhere new and expand this practice… But with things like restaurants or delivery? Without organization, all that does is further underpay people for their work and increase the chances of spitting in your food
I don’t think there’s a good answer, so I just do it much less
I used to think that way as well. But really, if spit in my food is being used as a threat to tip someone isn’t that extortion?
I’m polite, easy to serve, and even if the food is over-cooked and way too salty (as it was for the single taco I ordered last time I was out) I don’t ask for it to be returned. I’m a model customer, except I won’t tip.
I’m not doing it to be cheap, or out of spite, or in disrespect for the service personnel. I’m doing it to apply pressure so that things will change for the better
Think of it as passive guerilla tactics against a broken system
But what about the inherent coercion of capitalism? The fear of having your food spit in is a kind of coercion, but despite the system being broken, people who rely on tips need that money to survive
It’s a messy issue. If everyone refused to tip as a matter of course and they were paid a living wage I think things would be improved, but on a more immediate and direct level you’re reducing their pay
It’s a systematic problem… Maybe it can be handled individually, but that will create a lot of issues until the pressure of individuals can prompt systematic change
I would rather they felt the pressure to move on to different employment (if they can find it) than deal with the uncertainty and fickle nature of tippers
Where I live some restaurants have started requesting no tips because they pay their workers what they’re worth. If those are around when I go out, I go there. In their absence I don’t tip
Other countries of the world have it figured out, why can’t the U.S? We can be better. Sometimes you have to take a hard stand that feels counter-intuitive to the causes you believe in, in order to push things in the right direction. Do I feel bad about not tipping? Certainly. But I want change for the better and that requires applying pressure to the right places
I’m not ideologically opposed to what you’re saying - I agree with the end goal, I’m just worried about methods. I’m even fine with tipped employees suffering for a bit during transition
But changing jobs is purposely difficult…I don’t think that’s a fair demand through effectively reducing their wages
On the other hand, you brought up something great - if you have places around that have transitioned to a living wage, why not push to go there instead? Restaurants can make this change in a couple weeks if properly motivated, but it would take months of employees struggling until they leave to affect that level of change, and I’d argue a restaurant is more likely to look around and adopt a better business model when their customers dry up than to realize the reason they can’t keep staff is due to tipping expectations
I’m all for your strategy to pressure the holdouts once the tides have turned in an area, and maybe your area is at that stage… But I don’t think most of the country is nearly there yet
For sure. It’s just that the last time I was out I wasn’t able to do that. (An old employer had asked me to help out for the day on short notice, and I was on foot because driving/parking in the area is an expensive nightmare and there wasn’t enough time to take a bus)
Frankly I’d rather make food at home. I’m a decent cook and don’t have to be concerned with morality at all :)
As far as delivery, if I’m charged a delivery fee “because reasons”, that’s the extra money that is my tip. If they’re asking for a tip as well, then no.
But instead of just not tipping, I just don’t get delivery, which I haven’t since the pandemic. Two or three experiences where I was trying to order and all the add on fees plus tips meant that dinner for one was going to cost over $45 and dinner for two, over $60 (when the entrees themselves were like $12-15) and basically that was enough to convince me not to do it.
At one place there was a delivery fee, a delivery service fee, a “take out packaging” fee, a service fee, a charge for ordering less than $25, a driver fee (which they were quick to tell me was not a tip)…and of course still asked for a tip, with the options being 20, 22, and 25%. Even choosing the lowest tip, my single meal was going to cost $46 for food that I could walk in, sit down, order, eat, tip, and leave…all for under $25.
Basically I just don’t get delivery now, and while I know that won’t break the system, maybe if enough people join me it will.
