anyone want bet when this is going to end? i cant remember any release after xp that not had users cry about shit M$ did. winME…epic…so many sad customers. and while win7 kinda worked ok like a cheap toy you bought it was a telemetry desaster …oh, and with IE and M$paint that were already shit in winXP. so my questions is: how many generations does it take until ppl stop falling for their crap? i once read animals need like 3 errors to change behavious in a test with electric shocks on two of three exits of a cage. three. that should have stopped most animals to use windows after 98, xp and 7. so if you use win8 or win10 or later…i better stop here
Only good thing about windows being so bad is that amazing feeling when I finish my homework in Solidworks (🤬) and boot back to my Linux desktop.
Can’t you just virtualize it?
Virtualizing applications that use 3d graphics can be a pain
You just need to pass though a GPU
yeah but that needs a second gpu :/
Ugh, I just found this out and had to bail on the idea.
I mean, you can do it with a single gpu, it’s just that the host won’t have it anymore
Wouldn’t the iGPU be enough for the host system? I’m assuming you can reload the standalone GPU on the host system when you’re done with the task on the hosted system.
Would that be possible without restarting the system?
(I’m not as knowledgeable on Linux, so I’m curious if Linux can support such a use case)
hm yeah but hen you would need to have an i gpu in my case i don’t have one but that would work especially since if you have an i gpu the big gpu is mostly used for offloading
Not really. You just enable 3d acceleration for the VM
My laptop barely runs windows unvirtualized and I don’t have a PC :(
I have a Win7 on my PC which I only use for gaming but Steam is telling me it’ll stop working on Win7 in about 80 days or so. I installed Win7 on it for a reason but soon it’ll be my first ever computer running Linux.
This is the way
I’m just curious… You are ok with not installing any security updates for months (or even years)?
I guess so. I don’t really think about that. As long as stuff works on my end I don’t worry about updating it. I’d be happy if I could just install the security updates because updating the OS generally just breaks stuff and slows things down.
proton is pretty much there, thinking to jump ship to linux - already use it in all my work for decades
2024 the year of Linux. As long as we can avoid the toxic “don’t use Mint, use Arch instead users”.
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Yes support from a major company would set a Linux flavor as a general public friendly option. Right now the fracture between all the Linux versions is a deterrent for beginners.
But you should be using Arch instead ot Mint.
(I use Arch BTW)
It’s the only reasonable solution.
(I too use Arch btw)
No, do not use Arch
(I too? use Artix BTW)
My Steam Deck uses Arch btw.
The only distro I tell people not to use at this point is Ubuntu
Thanks for the heads up, I was Ubuntu install it. /s
Badum chhhhh
Don’t use Mint or Arch, use Void!
Just command line.
I really thought it’s harder, I really did… turns out it’s not.
2 basic set of commands for upgrading and purging: xbps-install -Suv and xbps-remove -ROov, that’s it.
Even on my Mac I end up pulling Terminal more and more to do things. Not everything though but some things are easier.
To be completely honest… I’m more comfortable with the terminal now.
Asimilation complete 🤣.
Honestly, I’ve been thinking about switching to Linux with my next system since about a month after I built my current system, over 4 years ago. That’s how long it took for me to be sick of Microsoft’s bullshit in Windows 10.
That said, I’m not looking forward to figuring out how to get into Linux. It’s probably easier than I think, but having done 0 research (as I don’t need a new system yet), the impression I have is that there’s a ton of stuff I’m going to have to figure out before getting started.
Try a live CD. It’s easy to get started without hearing a bunch of stuff.
Start with a live CD version (a USB thumb drive acts as your C: ) or a virtual machine (like VirtualBox and install Linux on it) just to try things out. Then do a full switch when ready.
It’s at the same time much easier and much harder than you think. You’ll have most of it working very easily and then find some little thing annoying you with some tool and take days to find a replacement that feels just right.
Yeah, you’re right about the last part.
Linux has a learning curve that’s steep to the average Windows or Mac user. The guys suggesting Arch are saying it’s easier than the other distros, but you have to remember that most of those coming from the other two aren’t going to know what a command line is. I had to guide someone through it when they wanted to install VMware on Pop!_OS, I would not put them on Arch. (And to those suggesting the AUR, that still needs a command line and now you need to inspect the PKGBUILD for security purposes.)
If you’ve got a spare USB drive, have a look at Ventoy. It’s a program that lets you put multiple ISOs (disc images) onto a drive and select which one to boot from at startup.
Most distros have free bootable ISOs to download, which let you try that distro without installing it. They usually have an installer built in so that you can install your chosen distro from a desktop environment.
Installation is probably the trickiest part, but even that’s not too bad as long as you pay attention. Once you’re on the desktop, it’s as easy to use as Windows.
Also the memey “xxxx the year of Linux”. Because that’s been going on for 40+ years now. 😅 You use it, or you don’t. Your OS is a tool, not a belief system.
Every year is “The Year of Linux.”
Year of Linux on the consumer PC. Linux has been dominating the server space for… 40+ years now.
That’s interesting, I remember reading a post to comp.os.minix about 32 years ago about a Finnish student who made his own OS. It was just a kernel that barely worked. Wish I’d known it was already dominant in the server space for over 8 years, could have gotten a head start!
I’m not quibbling with nerds over the timeline, I was just echoing the original poster’s words.
I hope that student’s project turned out ok, even if it’s not big and professional like GNU. Did he ever add support for non-AT hard disks?
So Linux has been dominating the server space since before it existed? Cool!
True it’s a tool. Just like a car. We get attached to one way of working with that tool, but then advancements come and a different tool starts to look interesting. Think gas->electric windows/mac->Linux.
This person gets it
I’d just like to interject for a moment. What you’re referring to as Linux, is in fact, GNU/Linux, or as I’ve recently taken to calling it, GNU plus Linux. Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning GNU system made useful by the GNU corelibs, shell utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by POSIX.
Many computer users run a modified version of the GNU system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of GNU which is widely used today is often called “Linux”, and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the GNU system, developed by the GNU Project.
There really is a Linux, and these people are using it, but it is just a part of the system they use. Linux is the kernel: the program in the system that allocates the machine’s resources to the other programs that you run. The kernel is an essential part of an operating system, but useless by itself; it can only function in the context of a complete operating system. Linux is normally used in combination with the GNU operating system: the whole system is basically GNU with Linux added, or GNU/Linux. All the so-called “Linux” distributions are really distributions of GNU/Linux.
Was that really necessary?
It’s a copypasta.
I think it’s a copypasta because we’re doing overdone Linux memes in this thread.
Ah, yeah, that makes more sense.
According to the last magazine I checked about this, 1997 is actually going to be the year of Linux on the desktop.
And this housing bubble is totally going to burst any day now, too.
I mean, if you like knowing what your machine is doing, Arch is one of the best options.
It’s also ironically easier to use day-to-day than some other commonly suggested distros. Sure something like Mint or Pop_OS is much much easier to set up but later on when you need a newer version or something that isn’t in the repos. Too bad! That doesn’t exist. Time hunt down a PPA and hope it’s trustworthy.
With Arch 99.9% of the time if it’s not in the main repos it’s in the AUR. And since it’s rolling there’s no worry of doing the big upgrades (been seeing plenty of posts about issues with the transition from Fedora 38 -> 39 lately). I have daily driven Arch for almost 10 years now and there have only been a handful of times across that whole span where a
pacman -Syuactually broke something.Completely agree. Ran Arch for about 10 years and had like three breakages that were all my fault (didn’t read news before a manual intervention. Once the battery died). But every time I could fix that by booting the current live image. No data loss.
debian has never broken anything here in twenty+ years of use. I’VE broken shit, but debian never has.
To be fair it is always my fault when things break not Arch’s. It’s not like Arch does anything on its own.
I’ve literally never had a Debian or Ubuntu dist upgrade go smoothly. It’s infuriating being on ancient tools, then randomly getting a giant dump up upgrades to slightly newer ancient tools that ends up breaking all kinds of shit
It’s comparatively easy to not break things if you’re like ten years behind. 😉 But sure, Debian takes pride in its stability. I just like having recent versions of everything.
Gentoo is for when you want to know what your compiler is doing.
shit dude, that’s about the only place where I have to use windows 😂.
This grinds my gears. Apple does the same: my work MBP nags me daily to enable iCloud backups but I have no way of doing it because Apple login is disabled by my administrator. Consequently, I cannot reach the settings page to tell Mac to fuck off.
You can’t ask IT to disable it for you?
I should, you’re right.
I have a feeling people here like Linux…
We don’t have a choice.
Please do not let Linux find out I said this, I have kids.
I have Arch btw
New convert here, it’s mostly dope. Edit: here as in on linux
on lemmy are you shure ?
I use a Mac!
But you’ve installed Linux on it, right?
No. But I pay for apps that offer me the built in features I get on Linux. Like… Setting per app audio output.
So I don’t use Mac so I gotta ask, are you joking or do you legit need to pay for that that feature that I’m pretty sure was something you could control in windows 98
Yes, you do. It’s not cheap, either.
I’ve tried the open source version but unfortunately they don’t work as well. SoundSource, though expensive, works well because of their sound engine called ACE, other open source solutions had other ways of redirecting audio. Though… RogueAmoeba(the devs), through the power of ACE offer other audio apps I use such as Audio highjack and Loopback, and I can really easily process the sound, recording it and add effects, even the built in ones from apple, like the sound isolation I apply on my mic, I can apply to the audio output or application outputs as well so when I record a meeting, if the user didn’t have a great mic and good noise cancelation I can apply the effect that comes built in by Apple which works really really well. I know, it sucks I have to pay but at least the apps are really really well done and nice.
I also pay for Setapp because a lot of really good apps are included that I use so I can make my Mac experience better, because honestly it misses a lot of features. Yet again, the silver lining is that the apps are built really well. Without all of these custom apps I don’t know how I could use a Mac. You even need software like Rectangle because macos doesn’t have built in window snapping.
I used to be a Linux user, I have been using it for quite a while(more than 5 years), but unfortunately I’m not just a developer anymore so I need to office stuff and develop… And it’s been the best experience by far on Mac (I also have to test some apps I make on iOS so I need XCode). Developing on Linux is amazing, but unfortunately I need to do a lot of different things and it’s been the best experience on MacOS with apps that add the features I am missing. I prefer Unix like systems and stuff to just work so you won’t catch me on windows, but I did have to install windows on my Linux machine because some things I have to do only work on Windows so I gotta have that. It’s just my usecase and this is what works best for me. I tried to linuxize my Mac to have the GNU utilities but unfortunately stuff started to break because they adapted it for the way the Mac utilities work… Ugh, I so wish I could have the GNU utils.
I was actually going to put it on an older laptop the other week, but Ubuntu wouldn’t run on it.
This was after spending an hour trying to get into the BIOS, only to find that the keyboard doesn’t actually work before the Windows splash screen comes up… I mean who the fuck designs it like that?
Also the drive bay doesn’t fit the SSD properly, so it just boot loops if you use the little caddy. Refuses to even Post.
Now I hate computers again.
What laptop was it so the rest of us can avoid this tomfoolery in the future?
Acer 5742. It’s old (and more importantly, free), but with a first gen i5 and 6GB RAM I thought it would still be able to run basic Ubuntu.
On the plus side, you could access the drive and RAM through a detachable panel, without needing to pull the whole machine to pieces, or be prevented from upgrading it entirely. Which is another thing that’s becoming depressingly rare.
Acer seems like a bit of a grabbag when it comes to quality.
This was after spending an hour trying to get into the BIOS, only to find that the keyboard doesn’t actually work before the Windows splash screen comes up… I mean who the fuck designs it like that?
Does your laptop have multiple usb ports? And did you try them all?
I had this issue even on my PC until I tried a bunch of different USB ports and found one that worked.
Uhh I just realized that since it’s a laptop the keyboard is part of the laptop… Well I’ll still leave this in case it helps anyone
Yeah, I had to plug in a USB keyboard in the end.
I see this is your first day with a Windows computer. Welcome.
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Is there a newbie way to install it? It looks pretty convoluted…
It’s easier than installing Windows. The problem is that someone hasn’t already done it for you.
Yes. Did you know that you cannot partition disks in a GUI while installing Windows? You can only select partition to install to or format the entire disk, all advanced actions must be done with
diskpartcommands in Command Prompt (Shift+F10).Also OOBE is shit, luckily you can do it offline thanks to
C:\Windows\System32\OOBE\bypassnro.bat. And the additional setup like debloating is also time-consuming.BypassNRO is actually an NT command script, not a DOS batch file. It’s actually a .cmd, which actually sets a registry value and reboots the system (probably the only bit of Windows I am aware of that is open source).
Also the Panther (the codename for the boot.wim installer) Setup has some really basic partitioning tools. You can create a smaller partition, delete, format, and that’s it. You have to use DiskPart or Disk Management to do more.
Or just wait until you are booted into Windows and use the Diskmanager.
Honestly, these complains from you Linuxians are always just so dumb and uninformed.
You are right that there is a way to do this post-installation but I have been down this rabbit hole 4 times and all I can say is:
Nope nope nope. This is actually more pain.
Why? Shrinking the
C:drive is difficult or damn near impossible when Windows is installed on it, which is why I always install Windows to a smaller partition (120 GiB as I don’t play modern games) and move user folders toD:, and then leave some space forE:or Linux.Disk Management will only let you shrink the disk by a very small amount. This is because Windows has a lot of “unmoveable files”. You need to disable recovery, virtual memory and hibernation to get a chance at shrinking that partition, and you may need to run all kinds of defrag commands. I did this on 4 PCs and the first 3 times, this was enough.
In the 4th case, just this week, I became sick and got stuck at my grandma’s place far from home. I needed a Linux installation badly, but there was only a laptop with 40 out of 220 GiB free after cleanup, and just a single partition (with Windows preinstalled, of course). It did not want to budge and reported 0 MB shrinkable space. I tried every trick mentioned online before resorting to buying Aomei Partition Assistant. It queued the action of shrinking the drive by 20 GiB (alleged minimum for Mint) and estimated 18 minutes to complete the operation. It told me it cannot do that while Windows was running so it gave me the option to use WinPE or PreOS mode. WinPE did not work so I retried with PreOS. The computer booted into VGA text mode and this appeared on the screen:
============== AOMEI Partition Assistant PreOS Mode ============== The program is executing, please wait... Operation 1 of 1 Resizing Partition Hard Disk: 1 Drive Letter: C: File System: NTFS Partition Label: OS Size: 220.46GB => 200.45GB Total:0 %, Current:0 %This was on the screen for about an hour, and the PC was apparently under load with fans spinning. The program might be stuck but could how could I tell? I eventually forced the computer to shut down. I hadn’t made a backup because I did not have an external drive (would have installed Linux on that, instead). Was my grandma’s only computer ruined? Would I be stuck for 2 weeks without a computer?
Luckily, the PreOS program ultimately had no effect on the drive, and I managed to negotiate a refund from Aomei. Then I realized I could boot into Recovery Mode and try
diskpartfrom Command Prompt there, which miraculously worked. Also pretty tense because it did not give any indication of progress, just threw control back to me when it finished. I was relieved when I successfully booted into Windows on that shrunk partition. Other than having to enter Windows Safe Mode to disable RAID storage in BIOS, the Linux installation went fine.
So this is why you install Windows on a reasonably small partition or resize it before using a preinstalled copy. This is not useful just for Linux but when you want to upgrade to an SSD (as I did with my parents’ and the other grandparents’ computer), you only want the system partition there so you don’t need to buy a bigger drive; also wear leveling will work better if the drive is not close to full, and HDDs are easierbto recover if they fail. With separate OS and data partitions, you just use Clonezilla or something to clone the Windows (
C:) partition to the SSD bit-by-bit, then disconnect the old drive and fix boot using a Windows recovery medium (necessary because of Microsoft’s shenanigans, make changes to the boot table and now you’re booting from an SSD with a fallback copy on the HDD!Or you just don’t partition at all.
Never had a problem with it in the last 15 years on Windows. You can usually fix the OS with some command lines. And if you can’t, you just reinstall and Windows will move all your files into a Windows.old folder.
That’s not good use of space, storage is still expensive where I live (partly because of piracy tax). A simple copy to “Windows.old” will not save the bootloader so it won’t really work as a backup – it’s dead space now. Your OS partition (and the EFI one) must be copied bitwise if you need to back them up (but as you correctly mentioned, you probably don’t).
It makes a lot of sense to separate installation and data, especially when the PC will get used by old people (who are more likely to screw up something badly) or power users. And making backups of data is as easy as
robocopy D: F:\Backup /mir. Yes, I also have lots of experience using and managing Windows PCs in my family and work.
BypassNRO is actually an NT command script, not a DOS batch file. It’s actually a .cmd, which actually sets a registry value and reboots the system (probably the only bit of the Windows core I am aware of that is open source).
Also the Panther (the codename for the boot.wim installer) Setup has some really basic partitioning tools. You can create a smaller partition, delete, format, and that’s it. You have to use DiskPart or Disk Management to do more.
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The best way to install is to use a LIVE edition. This is useful beacuse you have a nice installer intergrated and you can try it before you have to install the OS on the computer.
For download of this edition, see www.debian.org/CD/live
From there, if you come from Windows, I would raccomend KDE, as it is stable and customizable. Search “KDE screenshot” to see what it looks like, and if you like it.
If you want this, here the direct URL to download: https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current-live/amd64/iso-hybrid/debian-live-12.2.0-amd64-kde.iso
Debian should also be lite enough for older machines, and it is the most stable distro I’ve tried. With this OS, there are already web browser, media player, office suite,… but you can also download Steam, emulators and lots of software
For help you can DM me.
From experience, this is a stable streamlined process that is now easier than installing Windows.
Been some times since I installed Windows, but Calamares is a great tool
It is Linux, so no
- get your perferred iso
- do a checksum if available (basecally check the signature of the original file with yours, the checksum often is available on the website)
- get beleana etcher or i think rufus can also do linux isos but i’n not shure
- get an usb stick with min 4gb
- flash iso onto usb stick
- stick usb stick into perferred pc
- boot onot that usb stick (for my motherboard it’s F10 but that can be different for you)
- boot into the live iso and the installer should pop up
- read the instructions of the installer carefully
- you are done enjoy your new os
although i would recommend playing around with different distros in a vm to see waht you like and if all your needed software is available
Check out ubuntu if you want something thats easy to install. It’s very popular, it’s based on Debian and it has corporate backing but no spyware
psst… I hear you’re looking to ditch Microsoft. You might like what you see over at c/linux
uuu, nice, smooth 😏 👍
Maybe in the next 30 years ReactOS will reach a windows 10 level, hopefully sooner.
Nah, ReactOS is a waste of time and effort. It’s like constantly trying to guess what the other person is holding in his hand by doing questionares with the guy… you’re bound to lose if he’s always 10 steps ahead of you.
On the other hand, Wine, thanks to Proton, is doing quite well.
Proton works great for gaming because the narrow set of gaming-related API allows Valve and CodeWeaver to focus their effort to make sure most games run well. Windows has a lot more API though and a good percentage of them is still doesn’t work that well in wine, which means many apps still have issues or outright unusable in wine. For example, I think iTunes for Windows still doesn’t work in wine.
I never said it’s perfect. In fact, I don’t use Wine for gaming at all, but the fact still remains that Wine got A LOT better after Valve got involved.
Agree on the unsuable part. I can even be a witness to that (no Windows drive API, USB is out if the question). But, regarding “regular” apps, yeah, it does the job. If you wana run Adobe or AutoDesk products, yeah, it’s no good (depends on the version, but no good for anything above 2018, 2019).
Regarding iTunes… if I was on the Wine team, I wouldn’t even consider that for testing… good thing I’m not.
I didn’t even considered running iTunes on linux too. But after installing linux on my macbook, I realized I need to cancel some apps subscriptions only to realized you have to use either an apple device or iTunes for windows to do that. No option to manage your subscription via web at all! After unsuccessful attempt at running iTunes on linux, I ended up dusting off an old ipad mini 2 from my drawer and cancel the subscription from there (thanks god it can still connect to app store, it’s still on ios 12).
Main reason for it being is slow because they don’t want to interfere with M$ ToS.
I’m not sure its development team will live that long
Is there even a single benefit of this? I don’t want anything to do with one drive.
-
Syncing settings between devices
-
Bought Windows Store Apps transfer
-
Syncing Cortana related things
And of course OneDrive, but you already said you don’t care.
Honestly, if you don’t care about those, it is perfectly fine to just use Windows with a local account. But there definitely are benefits if you are looking for a more Apple-like “everything is connected” vibe.
This is all accurate. However, there’s one other thing, which is essentially SSO.
Basically if you sign in with a Microsoft account, you can sign into your PC with your Microsoft account username and password, which can be easier to reset from another device than going through the password recovery process for Windows.
Apart from that, your bitlocker keys are stored on your Microsoft account if you have that enabled on your main drive.
As an aside: if you have bitlocker enabled on your PC, be sure to back up the recovery key. Print it off, or save it to a USB drive and email it to yourself (the system won’t let you save it on the encrypted drive for obvious reasons), or something. Bitlocker isn’t bad, I just feel like Microsoft doesn’t do a very good job at making people aware of the pitfalls of it when things go sideways. Basically, if you need to pull the drive for any reason as part of a recovery operation, then you’ll need the recovery key to decrypt the data and gain access to it for the purpose of recovery.
Fair warning: anyone who purchased a prebuilt PC in the past 3-5 years should check on it (longer realistically), and make sure they have that recovery key. Most prebuilt PC companies (like HP/Lenovo/Dell) generally have bitlocker on by default and Windows does a wretched job of telling you any of this.
Bitlocker isn’t bad, it’s full drive encryption. That’s a good thing for the most part and you should use it, especially with mobile systems, but please make sure you have that recovery key. I work in IT support and it’s starting to happen that drives fail, and the client doesn’t have the recovery key, so I can’t even try to recover the data for them. It used to be trivial, just load the drive into a working system and grab what you need, but with bitlocker, even if you get a corrupted file that’s required for Windows to start, but the disk is otherwise fine, your data goes away and will not come back without that key.
-
The benefits are:
Data that can be analyzed and form basis of ad profile
Can track you when you are on the move.
Vendor lock-in as you may find that most features are tied to the microsoft account (onedrive, office, outlook)
Hey, wait a minute…
Nobody specified whose benefit…
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Why buy a new system when you can just run Linux on the existing system
Because the majority of people don’t want to expend the time nor effort installing Linux.
It already starts with choosing your distro …
Frankly, I think that’s a Linux community problem. We really just need to push one big distro and I think we are nowadays collectively pushing Linux mint a lot better. That really needs to be the default.
I suppose the point is that Surely Linux is a better option than buying a $1,300 MacBook.
The point is to transition to a subscription based OS. You subscribe, pay a monthly fee for services like Teams, Outlook, etc.
The LTSC editions probably won’t ship with that bullshit, so it’s probably safe to say that they can still be usable even after completely transitioning to a subscription based OS.
Yeah, they want the same thing Apple has with their customers, except Apple has some semblance of quality that Microsoft lacks.
Uuum, no.
To be perfectly honest, building software for a fixed set of hardware products is a piece of cake. Doing it for every bit of hardware on this earth, yeah, that is PITA. So, even though I don’t like MS at all, I have to hand it to them in the conpatibility department. Not as backwards compatible as Linux, but they sure are a close second.
Buidling software for an already stable as fuck platform (*BSD) is a lot easier, plus you already know what hardware it’s gonna run on, lol. You cherry pick security/bug fixes and everything else regarding optimizations gets thrown under the carpet… and of course you charge your customers for the security/bug fixes, that’s always a plus 👍.
I reckon the NT kernel is as least as stable as the BSD kernel, perhaps even more so. The team behind the NT kernel architecture is top notch. It’s what’s layered on top of the kernel and what’s plugged into the wide of it by hardware manufacturer drivers that tends to make the OS kind of shit.
This “we make an OS, you guys write the motherboard drivers, you pay a third party to put a signature on it” approach was a choice. Apple has had plenty of third party manufacturers over the years and they forced them to write better drivers and firmware. Ignoring the quality is a choice.
Free operating systems have control over the drivers so they filter out shit code by becoming responsible for maintaining it. That’s why so much Qualcom code isn’t in the Linux kernel, it’s not good enough or it’s not done right.
Microsoft took the easy way out by handing over QC to everyone else. They have programs to validate drivers (WHQL) but then manufacturers will tell you to download the “latest” driver from their website that does all kinds of stupid shit that would never pass WHQL testing, because it’ll give you 5 fps extra.
Apple has made plenty of stupid decisions in their OS (every “I want to switch to macOS” thread is full of $5 tools to add usability features that everyone else has had built in since Windows Vista). I’ve never heard of Apple charging for updates though, they were the ones to start doing the free OS version updates that Windows 10 copied.
MS realized that the way into the future is making the OS a subscription, like Apple did. Yes Apple were first, MS copied. You see something that’s good, you adjust to implement it on your terf.
Regarding the charging for updates part, I don’t actually own a Mac, so it’s just what I’ve read over the years online. I’m sorry if I made a mistake on that part.
You do have a point though about MS passing the ball to the manufacturers regarding the drivers. Still, even with just the native drivers, Windows supports a lot more hardware than MacOS does.
Regarding the NT kernel vs the *BSD one, I just don’t agree. Sure, the team behind it might be top notch, but in my experience the *BSD kernel is more stable. Sure, lack of drivers, smaller user base, but if you manage to get everything running, any of the BSD flavors is rock solid. Sorry, but can’t say the same about the NT kernel.
Is supporting every bit of hardware on earth why Linux shows ads everywhere?
I run Linux daily, I’ve never seen an ad (unless it was in a browser).
Exactly. Saying windows is problematic has nothing to do with supporting multiple hardware configurations and everything to do with Microsoft having no empathy for the user experience.
I mean the hardware can be pricy but there’s basically none of this in macOS.
Don’t apple products require you to sign in with an apple id to use them together?
And every OS update tries to dark-pattern trick you into enabling iCloud for all your services. And System Settings constantly nag you about setting up Apple Pay or other Apple services you aren’t using. Apple has less ads, but they still have nagware traps all over the place. They also place the free tier of iCloud just big enough to get you hooked, and just small enough you’ll overflow it sooner than later. For most consumers, paying $2/mon to make the nag go away is easier than finding out why they are running out of storage. Annnd…profit.
I suppose if you want to use their cloud features.
But I mean they don’t plaster nags and ads over core OS features.
I’m not necessarily advocating buying Macs but the OS itself is experiencing less enshittification.
Aren’t LTSC a pain to get (legally) when you’re not a corporation or something like that?
Yeah, they are. Which doesn’t stop you from pirating them. I use them on all my rigs IF I had to to use Windows.
Bully for them, but I don’t use Teams, Outlook, Office365, Onedrive, or Skype anyway. So the only way Microsoft is going to make a dime off of people like me is to charge a subscription for the base OS, which I ain’t paying.
I know what you mean. Likewise, I’ve never paid MS for any of their products (or any other company for that matter, lol 😂). So, if pushing comes to shoving and LTSC still comes with this bullshit, bye bye dual boot 👋 😉.
Microsoft isn’t looking to make money off of you.
They get the gross of their income from businesses.
Starting to like these posts. They help me block the linux bros to clean up my feed
You might as well block all the FOSS bros. Just stop using FOSS.
(FYI Lemmy is FOSS. The fact that people trying to get away from corporate greed also want to get away from other corporate greed seems like the expectation, not the exception.)
You can hate one FOSS implementation without hating the concept.
Honestly, the worst thing about Linux is the community of entitled elitists snobs that whine about anything that isn’t Linux.
At one point I was tempted to install a distro on my home machine to expand my technological knowledge. But if it turns me into one of those fuckers, then I rather keep my social life. Doesn’t matter if Linux is a divinely perfect OS or not.
Windows is slowly transitioning from a paid and solid OS to freemuim spyware bloated dumb OS.
Slowly? This crap has been going on for years.
Would that not be slowly? What would you call slowly in this context?
I don’t recall such issues with Win98 or XP
I miss Windows Vista.
The arrow pointing downwards is about to be absolutely destroyed today. Edit: it turns out that it didn’t.
I used to dual boot linux with windows Vista on an old laptop. I had only installed there the first assassin’s creed and Rome total war. Nothing else, never really connected to internet. After 1 year of not using it a part than few total war sessions, vista was so slow that was unusable. It spontaneously became slow for no reason. I completely removed it, left only linux, and that laptop survived 7 years of intensive use, and was still working 10 years later (just too old).
Vista was a scam
Good for you, I’m never gonna get convinced.
Blasphemy! Windows XP is the only King!
I don’t really like XP’s design anymore. I didn’t like it back then either.
Vistas problem was that it was ahead of its time
I sort of agree with you, but not in the way I think you meant it.
Vista’s problem was that it’s hardware requirements were too high for it’s time. Operating systems have very long project development lifecycle and at a point early on they did a forward looking estimate of where the PC market would be by the time Vista released, and they overshot. When it was almost ready to release it to the world Microsoft put out the initial minimum and recommended specs and PC sellers (Dell, HP, Gateway) lobbied them to lower the numbers; the cost of a PC that met the recommended specs was just too high for the existing PC market and it would kill their sales numbers if they started selling PCs that met those figures. Microsoft complied and lowered the specs, but didn’t actually change the operating system in any meaningful way - they just changed a few numbers on a piece of paper and added some configurations that let you disable some of the more hardware intensive bits. The result was that most Vista users were running it on hardware that wasn’t actually able to run it properly, which lead to horrible user experiences. Anyone that bought a high end PC or built one themselves and ran Vista on that, however, seemed quite happy with the operating system.
I both agree and disagree with that statement.
Windows finally got animations and transparency when Mac OS has beaten it by 6 years. Truly an oomph moment.
Windows finally got animations and transparency when Mac OS has beaten it by 6 years. Truly an oomph moment.
The actual technological advancement of Vista was userspace graphics drivers.
Also correct.
I had no problems with Vista. I also built a new PC for it though.
Very similar story here: I bought a new computer that shipped with Vista.
I got horrendously tired of that Pentium 4 thing.
Dude, that was 22 years ago… I also remember Prince of Persia as if it were yesterday
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It started with Windows 8
Ready to feel old, that was 11 years agooooo^o
Ah maan, why’d you have to tell me that, it still feels like it came out just 3-4 years ago tops
It started with Windows 8
Win8 wasn’t freemium. Win10 was.
True but it’s when Microsoft started to implement apps and such for tablets and hybrid laptops along with office 365.
Because at this time the internet was still slow, not always on and optional on most computers, and Microsoft did not know if and how they should integrate the internet into the OS. The only thing they had at the time was some link to MSN on the desktop, and activeX (???) Where you could display websites on your desktop or within your program, but without the Browser controlls.
Windows 2000 🫶
Decades.
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Yeah slowly, it started years ago but it’s been getting worse every version, slowly
The freemium model was launched and completed with Win10.
Fast would be if windows 8 had ads and non uninstallable internet exploder etc
Sounds like someone who doesn’t remember windows 8!
Ads: https://hothardware.com/news/microsofts-big-hidden-windows-8-feature-builtin-advertising
They were working on it… and had it working in several places.
Uninstallable IE: https://www.technorms.com/34477/uninstall-internet-explorer-11
While not literally uninstallable… they definitely made it a lot harder.
Windows 7 was the last good version of windows.
Funny thing is that 8 had 2 LTSC-like versions:
Embedded Industry and the EEAP builds.
EEAP builds were released to partners (e.g. Nvidia and Intel) only.
Industry Pro is like a precursor to modern day IoT LTSC.
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Why not XP SP3?
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Interesting - I didn’t know that. Thanks!
MS will never, ever be able to write an OS that fast again. I feel like the modern Windows is the same base code just a hundred extra layers of shit on top.
That goes for almost any software.
it is
If only every Windows install came with an internet exploder! We wouldn’t have to read Elon Musk X fluff pieces on the news ever single day. And privacy concerns… What privacy concerns?
Windows 8(.1) was still utter trash, I actually "down"graded to windows 7 at the time and it was a bliss.
(it wasn’t the non-stop-ads kind of trash, but the UI suited a tablet more than a desk/laptop)
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Isn’t a process happening gradually over years “slowly”?
That’s generally what “slowly” means, yes.
Sir, do you have a minute to talk about Linux? 👉👈
Literally op is Satan so…
No. Fuck you.
<~6yo boy
sucks bill’s dick
Wat
Do we have to report him… ?
