I currently work part-time as a bus driver and I just wanna say that it’s incredibly hard to determine who is right or wrong when you didn’t see what happened and you’re just going by what each kid says. If you only see the tail end of a fight, you might wrongfully think the kid retaliating is the bully. 99% of the time it’s easier to just separate the kids and/or punish them both equally since it’s impossible to determine who the victim and the perpetrator is. It sucks, it feels really bad, but that’s the reality of the situation.
This may have been the unfortunate reality 20 years ago. But security cameras are cheap and ubiquitous. If it’s on school property (including school busses), then this should be simple. Separate the kids, review the footage, and punish the kid who started it. The one who didn’t start it gets an apology and assurances that they’re safe and it won’t happen again. The whole “punish them both equally” is insane and sociopathic.
The worst kind of bullies will just learn what the cameras are going to capture and not
do you think the schools have the resources to “launch an investigation” every time there’s a fight? you may end up with one side of the story anyways, that’s ridiculous. don’t ask from a school stuff with what the justice system struggles.
Most of the time teachers don’t care when kid is bullied, i mean long time ago, when i was in school teachers ignored bullies, saying that they’re just playing, when quiet kids got beat up, but when quiet kids retaliate, just like in the meme) teachers come to help) i kinda get it that teachers don’t want trouble and when quiet kids endures, teacher won’t intervene even if quiet kids gonna ask the teacher, but bully won’t gonna endure and gonna screech all over when getting beat up, so i kinda understand why teachers side with bully most of the time, p.s i was quiet kid)
The thing is that if someone is bothering you, then you need to go to the teacher. If you set a precedent that one kid is bothering you, then the teacher is more likely to believe you if you ever snap and hit your bully they’ll be more understanding. But if you never say anything and then suddenly snap, then obviously it looks from the outside like you’re the bully.
If you tell then you’re a narc and everyone will think less of you anyway. The only thing that works is standing up for yourself which, thanks to zero-tolerance policies, is no longer an option.
I swear in 5-6th grade It often felt like the teachers themselves bullied me
It didn’t felt like that, it was like that, coming from personal experience, I’ve finished college and enrolled to university and soon will be getting diploma, and I’ve tried to go to school and college where i was, and you know what, it’s rarely in your whole life that you can see such rude people, they called me alot of slurs, implied that I’m couldn’t make it (as they always told me) and praised bullies that was studiying with me in college and school and dropped out of university
The best bully defense is an overwhelming and unrelenting offense. Yes, I realize there are many reasons why bullies bully. As one who was bullied constantly up through middle school, the only thing that made them stop is when I lashed back. Not mediation; not getting teachers involved; not ultimatums. Make them regret choosing you as their target.
Sent two to ER, didn’t help. Damn kids have no self-preservation instinct, especially bullies for whom playing with fire is their entire thing.
In my opinion, the school is just a glorified daycare and it’s terrible at it. Kids are inherently dumb and because they are dumb they are cruel. And, worst thing of all, is that they take example from others so putting them up together is the worst idea possible. Kids should be surrounded by adults, not other kids. I will do my best to prevent mine from going to school, or, at the very least, make sure they attend a smaller one with reduced classes. Less kids = less problems.
As someone that got bullied through middle and high school i relate strongly) but unrelenting offence don’t work when your bully have influential parents, in my case that was it, and i got labelled as near fricking war criminal, even though i was bullied middle schooler, but you’re absolutely right about common cases)
If they believe someone is a criminal already then just escalate things and appear in their houses in the middle of the night while they are sleeping. Worse than a bully only supportive parents. They all deserve the same treatment.
Preach) 🙏🙌
Bro, I was the biggest bully in grade school. It made me popular with the girls and that’s why I mostly did it. And I was tall, so it just made things easier.
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ah, the Ender Wiggin’s strategy. The Art of grade school War. A++
real life don’t always go like that though. Hard to fight back when three guys hold you down and punch you in the diaphragm. I was 11, they were 14.
Sometimes it’s better just to stay alive and unharmed, even if it means you’re afraid.
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Lol what do you mean by 3 kids ‘came at me’? Because kicking someone in the nuts for walking towards you sort of seems like provoking a fight.
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I’m not saying you’re lying I’m saying that in the majority of cases, bullying isn’t solved by kicking a random kid in the groin.
in some cases it might actually make things worse, as people might be out for revenge, or cause you to become a social pariah, or even get into trouble with the police.
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I got physically attacked on the playground pretty much every day for years in elementary school. I feared my parents more than the attackers, so I took my lumps and never fought back. The teachers didn’t care. One day I had enough. Grabbed the kid punching me, threw him to the ground, and kicked him a couple dozen times. He had bruises on his arms, legs, and torso and probably a few bruised ribs. The principal told me that fighting is never ok, but she didn’t see it so couldn’t say if there was a fight or not and warned me against getting into any fights in the future because she’d probably see those… First time any staff stood up for me. No problem though, every one of those kids left me alone and never bothered me again.
You had an uncommonly principled principal.
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it’s interesting that everyone here is a victim. why isn’t anyone owning up to being the bully? the ratio is highly suspect.
personally, I was mostly the victim. but I can think of a small number of times where I punched down the pecking order because that’s how I poorly dealt with the abuse by the real bullies.
I wish I had been encouraged to fight back by my parents. unfortunately the emotional abuse at home fully contributed to the lack of self esteem required to do so.
I will admit that I have probably been the main villain if not an asshole in different people’s stories.
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Do you think your bullies would spend time on Lemmy? Much less admit they were bullies on a thread like this? I think there might be a bias at play here.
Well, speak of the devil. I was both. When one suffers, it is the way of life to spread suffering.
What would you like a person like me to say? That I was wrong? Sure. Do I still want to beat the everloving shit out of the people that perpetuated that against me first? Sure. Would I understand the guy that I was bullying to do it to me? 100%.
I suppose it would make it even. Regardless, the meme is applicable. Teachers knew and ignored the fact that I was bullied, but fuck me if I ever stood up for myself.
That can be true, but it varies a lot. As a teacher, I can guess at a lot but have proof of very little. So I can do things, but maybe you wouldn’t even notice them most of the time. You’re looking for a suspension, and that only happens in very specific circumstances.
Of course everything varies by school and district.
LPT: Have a friend distract the teacher before you beat your bully’s ass.
Or beat up the bully on his way home. Damn, that was a good feeling… sigh the good old days.
I broke their wrist in art class after they hit me with a chair. Got suspended of course, but it was worth it: People didn’t really fuck with me after that.
I hit him so hard the whole bus heard it. Since a lot of students hated him they chanted to hit him again and I so I did. Also didn’t get bullied for the next three years. The valuable lesson I learned this day was: stand up for yourself.
Let’s hope Steven sets things right 😊🙏
Their geopolitics is the same. Fucking shithole nation.
Authorities will always immediately quell any currently-happening hostilities when they arrive on the scene, that’s a clearly necessary first step in order to figure out what the hell is happening. A common bullying tactic is to bait the person into fighting back, knowing that the anger will push them so far they get in trouble.
You see, the bully has enormous amounts of experience and practice at toe-ing this precise line. The quiet kid does not, they’re quiet, they don’t run into it very often. The bully knows this.
So, if you absolutely must hit back because nobody and nothing else is helping, do it quickly, decisively and cleanly, and then stop. Re-arrest your own feelings, and go back to calm. You probably will still get in trouble, but the other kid is more likely to get in trouble with you. And you’re less likely to do medically significant damage anyway, if you just hit once instead of wailing on the bully for a solid minute, so, that’s better for everyone. If you actually really hurt the kid by accident, that’s a whole different ball game, you don’t really want that. You just want them to stop doing this in the future, that is all. Deterrence for the future is different from revenge. Revenge is impractical because of how extreme it is, it can create feuds, make things worse. He can avenge your revenge, if you are too harsh. But simple deterrence is a different story, when you’re not too harsh, and instead using just enough force to get the safety that you want.
do it quickly, decisively and cleanly, and then stop.
I once punched a dude that was fucking with me in the mouth right in the middle of science class while the teacher had her back to us. He just sat there with a stunned look on his face and stopped. Later after school I ran into him coming from the other direction while I was leaving and he was yelling threatening shit while we were approaching each other. I just kept quiet and kept walking towards him and when I got within speaking distance he said something like “you like punching people in the mouth?” and I was just like “yeah” and kept walking past him. I really thought he was going to attack me but he didn’t do anything and didn’t fuck with me after that.
All reasonable and logical things. But someone bullied accumulates permanent damage for rest of their lives. A bully should expect full repercussions to the max. I sure wished a bunch of them would get run over by cars of broken some legs. They deserve it.
I smoked my bully in front of everyone. He stewed for a few years, then told all the black kids I called them the n word behind their backs. That was the end of any sports for me. They hated me. Some 10 years later I left a party to got get a keg. When I got back luckily someone warned me before I got out of my car that he had arrived and stirred up the same shit. Yep, should’ve stopped at the one punch. Good lpt.
As I grow older I often forget how much kids and teens suck in how they treat each other sometimes
The reason zero tolerance policies get so often implemented is because kids tend to be much smarter in how they go about being dicks to one another than in how they do their schoolwork, or, in how they do almost anything else. If you implement one-sided policies that favor the bullied, it’s then in the bully’s best interest to instead appear bullied, which can end up being a pretty common tactic anyways. There’s also more circumstances under which bullying can take place than just physical. Verbal bullying is much harder to prove and do anything about, and the worst is probably when some random kid gets dogpiled for being different, there’s not much teachers can do about that even if it’s relatively obvious. Which is also resting on the assumption that the teacher isn’t also taking part in the bullying as a way to be seen as “cool” by their students, which is unfortunately something that’s not uncommon. There’s also mutual bullying in which kids can egg each other on until one goes too far, and then maybe zero-tolerance policies end up making some sense, as the group’s behavior as a whole is what really needed to stop.
I think taking a more top-down view of the problem, it would seem to me that there’s a similar problem going on to when reagan defunded all of the mental institutions, or whatever metaphor you’d wanna use here. There’s a lot of attempts to make things right by removing things, rather than adding things. It’s bad to lower a student’s grade as a result of their malicious behavior, rather than their output, and usually bullies have bad grades anyways. Can’t impose on the parents at all because the parents of bullies tend to either be nutso helicopter parents, or tend to be bullies to their children. And then sending kids to other school districts usually just ends up condemning then to a boiling pot of other kids who are maybe worse, or will exacerbate their behavior as it isolates them more, and in extreme cases it can lead them to criminality. Results are going to be kind of mixed on student counseling, if you have a therapist or psychiatrist on campus that’s extremely lucky and can also have mixed results, and there’s really not anything else you can offer kids other than that, for a variety of reasons. It’s relatively hard to get people to stop being self-destructive in the best of times, as an institution, and it’s much harder when those people are kids, and when you’re inevitably going to be some underfunded institution, since schools funded by the rich, and their property taxes, tend to have children that will engage in less bullying, even if those kids are subject to other psychologically unhealthy pressures.
We could probably solve a good amount of this by just funding schools federally on an equal basis, or with voucher programs based on student population, but nobody wants to fund/expand those programs because schools tend to be underfunded and give bad results already, and we unfortunately have a tendency in this country to give something less money when it performs poorly, as some sort of sacrifice to the free market.
Everytime
Not a word. Please learn.
Language is constantly evolving and grammar policing doesn’t make you seem smart, just pathetic
“Zero tolerance” policies in my district are so fucked up and easily metagamed by the actual bullies that I had to outright break the rules and feign ignorance to even let kids take a stand and fight back against the bullies. I hated it.
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