- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
“The resolution suggests that all anti-Zionism—it states—is antisemitism. That’s either intellectually disingenuous or just factually wrong,” said New York Representative Jerry Nadler, who voted present. “The authors if they were at all familiar with Jewish history & culture should know about Jewish anti-Zionism that was and is expressly not antisemitic. This resolution ignores the fact that even today, certain Orthodox Hasidic Jewish communities … have held views that are at odds with the modern Zionist conception.”
You must log in or register to comment.
This is ridiculous, the first anti zionists were all Jewish. Some were even assassinated for their views. Zionism should not be conflated with Jewishness at all.
Unfortunately, that’s too nuanced a presentation of facts for most people to digest. No one actually knows anything about history anymore.
Zionists have been trying to do this forever.
They don’t argue in good faith.
Same coin. Both sides.
Like 2 months ago the only time I heard the word Zionist was in my world religions class, now I guess the entire world is suddenly run by them.
The Anti Jeremy Corbyn playbook is still in use I see.
The real reason to hate Corbyn is that he’s such a toxic idiot that he hurt Lib Dems getting elected, and they’re a totally different party.
That was used as a stick to hit Labour before Corbyn as well. There’s always been a handful of low level councillors that fail to draw a line between opposing apartheid in Gaza, and sharing comics of big nosed Jews eating babies on Twitter. And I acknowledge that this is mostly because Labour councillors are more likely to be Muslims with family ties to the Middle East in general. It was all overblown by the right wing media to make it seem like the entire Labour cabinet wanted to bring back the gas chambers.
But in fairness you also can’t go and lay a wreath for a Munich massacre terrorist and then expect to go on to be PM of the UK. If that picture was doing the rounds during the Labour leadership contest, I doubt they’d have made him their leader.
Even without all that, I doubt he’d have beaten Boris in that election. His Brexit bluster had unified the former UKIP voters under him and that was enough to ensure victory against anyone.
Anti-Zionism is not antisemitic.
Lumping in all Jewish people with the genocidal apartheid ethnostate absolutely is.
Holy shit that’s poignant
I am so tired of this bullshit and of Isreal’s bullshit. I don’t care if people think I am antisemitic because technically I am. I am in the same way I’m anti Christian, Muslim, Buddhism, Odinism and every other religion. Can we please stop using superstition as a reason to kill and hate eachother when there are plenty of good reasons to already do that or better yet just stop doing it all together.
Religion isnt the reason, it’s just the excuse.
The reason is money and power. It always has been.
I think the best term is “anti theocracy” and while Israel is in theory a democracy they are first and foremost a theocracy because the democracy is a right only reserved for those inside the theocratic construct.
No they are a secular democracy. Their laws are not based on Judaism. Judaism prohibits most things they do.
Israelis hate black black Jews as well. It’s just a racist white ethno-state.
If they are an apartheid state with tiers of citizens, they aren’t a democracy.
What are their tiers of citizens?
Just 14 lawmakers voted against the resolution
No wonder it passed
Jews don’t all agree, nor should they but to the vast majority of them people saying that the Jewish homeland shouldn’t exist, with the history of Jews being ethnically cleansed from the dozen countries they have been, is a very Antisemitic position to take.
With the uptick in hate crimes against Jews, with the words of college Presidents making it clear that calling for the death of Jews isn’t problematic enough for punishment it’s just making Jews feel even more strongly that Israel needs to exist and Zionism is self preservation.
If you have a problem with Israel existing and not with any other country, the question of why should probably be explored. They’re not the only country that’s been established in the past 100 years nor are they the only one that’s the result of the British drawing lines thru historical homelands.
I don’t think a religious ethnostate is a good thing. I also don’t think running an open air prison inside your ethnostate is a good thing.
So you’re also calling for the destruction of the Arab ethnostates as well? If you’ve got an issue with the country that offers rights to Arabs… then surely you’ve got issues with the surrounding countries that don’t offer rights to people who aren’t Muslim right?
There are over 2 dozen countries that require the head of state to be a certain religion. You’re against those countries existing right? Or is it just the Jewish state? BTW, Israel doesn’t have laws against Arabs being Prime Minister.
Yes? Did you expect me to say no to that?
Lemme just make sure it’s clear, this is not about Israel being Jewish… It’s about them running an open air prison, taking a moral high ground and my country’s relationship with said ethnostate.
Also that verbage, “destruction” is so interesting to me. I don’t remember calling for the destruction of Israel?
I expect you to now start campaigning for the destruction of the Arab world then. Yet it’s clear based on your comment history that’s never occurred to you. Yet another internet hero who’s completely ignorant as to what they’re calling for. The removal of the governments of the entire Arab world. That’s beyond delusional.
If the only advocacy you do is against the lone Jewish state, my initial point applies. You’re only advocating for one here.
Being Anti Zionist is calling for the destruction of the Jewish state. There’s no way around this. Zionism by definition is the movement for the right for the Jewish people to have self determination by the formation of a homeland. If you’re so ignorant as to call for the dissolution of that State and also attempt to argue that wouldn’t lead to the death of Jews in the region then you’re either intentionally ignorant or you’re trolling.
It’s a popular issue being discussed at the top of my feed, of course I have opinions related to it. There aren’t a ton of articles with discussion about other Arab ethnostates running open air prisons on Lemmy, if your feed has some I’d love to hear some suggestions.
You’re trying really hard to paint this as an antisemitic thing when it really just comes down to them being weird as fuck. No country in the world operates in the way they do with as much political power and influence as they do. I don’t even think that’s much of a stretch to say, even Israeli officials confirm it. It’s ultimately a human rights issue, I’m not calling for the destruction of Israel, I’m asking you to not destroy the people within Israel.
You can use history and semantics all you want, but Gaza is the stain on your argument. What’s happening there is awful, period.
deleted by creator
Checked the vote roster and only 13 democrats voted nay, while 92 voted present which is dissapointing.
They are putting on a show of being opposed while not doing everything in their power to oppose it. It’s similar energy to when Justin Trudeau joined a BLM protest instead of using his position as prime minister of Canada to take a real stand against police brutality.
I’m not sure why the distinction is that important. If you’re anti-zionist in 2023, you’re calling for the destruction or deportation of 40% of the jews on this planet. It’s not quite the same as calling for the destruction or deportation of 100% of the jews, that’s for sure, but it’s not great either.
If freedom of speech is paramount, then speaking these things should be legal, like it should then be legal to call for the destruction of any other group of humans, animals, plants or whatevers. As it should be legal to publically denounce such speech, or get repercussions from saying such things.
It’s kind of a major self-report when people are straight up incapable of imagining the possibility of a secular democratic state with more than one ethnicity/religion. Like it never even occurred to you as an option or possibility.
I’m sure people like that exist somewhere, but what does that have to do with the discussion or Israel?
Use some context clues, I think you can figure it out. I believe in you!
Being against the government of another country is in no way the same as wishing destruction or deportation on its people.
See: “fuck the CCP”
If you’re anti-zionist in 2023, you’re calling for the destruction or deportation of 40% of the jews on this planet.
Failure to support one ethnic cleansing does not mean that you support another. It is possible to support no ethnic cleansing.
I’m sure that’s possible, but it seems like no demonstrations are asking for that.
The United States is a British/Israeli colony.
Always was.
Congress having a normal one
The frustrating thing is that if you find an “anti-Zionist” online and scratch the surface just a little bit, it’s almost 100% of the time an antisemitic white supremacist wearing anti-Zionism as a veneer, so it’s kind of an understandable mistake.
But it’s still a mistake, and they should know better.
Edit: Wow, I guess this struck a nerve. But it’s true, most of the time - not all the time - people who call themselves “anti-Zionists” online also use (((parentheses))) around the word “globalist.”
As BraveSirZaphod aptly points out, it’s a pointless word these days. Better to use a phrase like, “opposed to the current Israeli government,” which would - again, as BraveSirZaphod points out - put you in company with the majority of Israelis.
Can you name one of these people?
Are you just going around to all my old comments and responding to them? Why?
Hi, anti-Zionist here - feel free to scratch deeply bc that’s a pretty terrible take. Israeli people from my experience have been generally nice, and I don’t hate anyone based on their race or religion (though I generally do not like organized religion for a wide variety of reasons). Israel has a right to exist, it doesn’t have a right to wantonly crush Palestinian people under it’s boot and that’s all it’s doing at this point, along with attempting to hide and/or discredit any criticism of their part in this (had Netanyahu and his cronies not funded even more extremists in Hamas or taken the threat of an attack seriously, this all likely wouldn’t have happened). Or do you really accept as accidental that they’ve killed more journalists per day than almost any major conflict?
Israel has a right to exist
Under most definitions of Zionism, you are a Zionist. When the term was coined, it referred to the idea that the Jews should move to Israel and establish some kind of formal community.
Of course, now Israel does exist, so that original frame of reference no longer exists and the term generally means “a perspective towards Israel that matches or opposes what I think”.
At the beginning, opposing Zionism would mean that you don’t think Jews should move back to the Levant. Of course, that did happen, so now what? Perhaps it means you think that Israel should remain at its current borders and not expand, but is that really anti-Zionism when it’s literally the accomplishment of the Zionist mission? Or perhaps anti-Zionism is the belief that Jews should be forcibly removed from Israel or killed. That is unquestionably anti-Zionist, but it’s also blatantly genocidal.
Basically, Zionism is a pointless term today and no one should use it. If you oppose Israel’s current government - a perspective shared by most Israelis it should be noted - just say that, and consider avoiding a term that some people will plausibly interpret as advocating for their genocide.
When zionists run your gvt
