- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
- [email protected]
- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
- [email protected]
You must log in or register to comment.
Can all the folks saying “I don’t care” on this just stop? If this doesn’t affect you, why are you commenting at all?
Some smart folks managed to reverse engineer Apple’s secretive tech that they refuse to put on any platform they don’t own, which is fucking awesome. Even if you don’t give a shit about using iMessage, it’s awesome they were able to stick it to Apple at all, and make the gap between iPhone and Android that much smaller.
And of course Apple comes in and breaks it. Do you not wonder why? Does this mean there was a minor security hole that was exploited or was it something else that changed? This arms race is fascinating, regardless of your preferred mobile OS.
deleted by creator
I read that it was a 16 year old kid which makes it more fascinating
We’re literally on a platform designed to escape these closed ecosystems and walled gardens. A platform built around open communication standards.
And still there’s a downright bizarre contingent of people around here that seem to be chomping at the bit to defend or downplay Apple’s iMessage shit.
I’ve found the complete opposite on here. Outside of the apple communities but even those get trolled/downvoted from nerds browsing all like everything else.
That’s funny when most of the comments are saying “just use WhatsApp” as if that’s not a walled garden for messaging.
removed by mod
Sir, this is a Wendy’s.
It’s relevant though. Attack their argument if you think it’s bad, but don’t say they were being off topic, because they were not.
is you don’t know what goes on in the real world relevant
everything i don’t like is entitled
Isn’t RCS an open communication standard?
Yes, but no. RCS itself is. Google RCS however, not especially. Google keeps promising to open up the bits they’ve tacked on but have yet to. Which includes things like the open end-to-end encryption. Apple will be implementing vanilla RCS which does not have that yet. But they have claimed if I remember correctly that they are going to help develop that. I don’t know if I believe that or if that’s just something they said to foster some false Goodwill
Can all the folks saying “I don’t care” on this just stop? If this doesn’t affect you, why are you commenting at all?
Haven’t you heard? Lemmings are all about “Stay alone in a basement and never get out and socialize, because people use something you don’t agree with. If they really want to talk to you, they’ll switch.”
They didn’t, but now they’re on lemmy with more people with the same attitude, trying to socialize but never realizing why they don’t have any friends.
Reddit migration brought all the entitled, self agrandizing, freeloading, weirdos to the fediverse.
people use something you can’t use because walled garden
joined 1 month ago
deleted by creator
Not everything should be centered in America, or exclusively to what happens there.
That’s literally the opposite of what’s happening.
I understand that. But that doesn’t have anything to do with my point, which is that if someone doesn’t care about this issue, they don’t need to show how much they don’t care.
In fact, I would argue that your general sentiment – that of considering others in different situations than oneself – applies more to the people acting like this topic doesn’t matter because it doesn’t affect them personally.
deleted by creator
Rule no°1 on Reddit/Lemmy: Every user is part of the US unless stated different.
I don’t give a flying fuck about it.
No one with a brain does.
is opinion
I have never needed iMessage in my life and I haven’t even seen it. Proprietary messaging apps are not trustworthy.
Whoever gave it 24 hours gets a medal from me
Who cares?
No one that has a brain.
defederate facebook
People that upvote the post, which seems to outnumber the people that are doing the opposite.
Illegal Anti-Competitive / Cartel behaviour, yes??
Apple, you are only exempt-from-law UNTIL the regulators decide to do their jobs honestly.
THEN, you’re hosed.
_ /\ _
I mean, even the EU already exempted iMessage from the new rules.
Because they already follow a standard. SMS and MMS.
And with them adopting RCS? There’s nothing they can force to open iMessage.
They exempted iMessage because it’s not big in Europe. If it were as big as in the US it would’ve fallen under the DMA.
Exactly I don’t know a single person in Europe who uses or cares about iMessages. This is in the US only.
I have seen some iphone users use it with some other iphone users. But it’s very rare.
Curious, what are the most popular apps used?
In the Netherlands: whatsapp. You can’t avoid whatsapp here. Telegram is used by a smaller fraction, but it got a bit of a bad rep during the pandemic due to primarily attracting anti-vax rioters.
In Japan and a lot of Asia, most people use LINE.
According to this:
- FB Messenger
- Viber
- Telegram
I use Telegram.
To be notified by my selfhosted bots
Literally everyone I know uses WhatsApp. It’s probably been over a decade since I last sent or received an actual SMS (except for 2FA codes).
I’d rather not use a meta application just to send an SMS. I have WhatsApp but it’s only for communication with overseas relatives.
With RCS I don’t see the appeal of WhatsApp
The appeal is: 100% of your family and friends use it. A good fraction of businesses use it for customer service too. Not using it will have you left out of a pretty big chunk of social life.
And that mindset is why iMessage is popular in the US /shrug
deleted by creator
WhatsApp
TIL iMessage is still a thing.
Tentatively exempted. The decision isn’t final.
Spoiler - it’s working again. Might be teething problems for a new service.
it’s working again
No it isn’t. If you read the article, the lead developer is pointing fingers at Apple, so no, not a “teething problem” either.
I literally sent a message right before posting.
You may be able to get a message out here and there but I’m in a public group with hundreds of users and no one’s is working.
They did eventually ~fix it though~. (Only about 6 hours ago).
Check your app store for an update to the app.
Edit: it’s only partially fixed as of right now.
The last update I got from Eric was at 1:30AM saying they still hadn’t fixed it and they’re calling it a night.
The old-style Matrix bridges still work, to be clear.
Ah, yeah, looks like they got it working but only for some accounts:
And…we might have spoken a bit too soon. It’s not working for all accounts yet. More work to do, we’re going to sleep now but back at it tomorrow.
That’s Beeper Cloud, not Beeper Mini.
I really don’t understand who the fuck cares about this shit. OMG! Can’t believe the world we’re living in now
Which losers are downvoting ? Show yourself, allow me to make an example outta you.
The fuck you gonna do, child? I hate both Google and Apple, downvoting you for sport.
Lol you sound like a apple fanboi aka THE KEYBOARD Warrior lol
who invite gen alpha ._.
More like Alpha Male. We don’t have time to worry about chat color and shit coz we busy banging yo mom.
If you have to say you’re an alpha, you’re not
is also tate fan ._.
I fucking hate Apple. Can you read?
Redacted
I downvoted your comment because it didn’t contribute into the discussion.
Fair enough but I gotta ask are you an apple fanboi or android ?
Neither, I guess? Both have advantages and disadvantages.
Lol I can tell that’s a lie. You sound like a apple fanboi. You just don’t want to accept that
If it satisfies the way in which you want to label me, ok. For what it’s worth, I’m typing this on a Pixel 7 and own a MacBook and a Windows 11 desktop for different purposes.
neither. both suck.
why can’t you simply foster openness and community god fucking dammit
They’re adopting RCS next year, what more do they need to do?
Putting iMessage on Android just gives them a whole lot more control over the messaging ecosystem.
There’s dollars to be extracted.
Well, because it’s Apple.
It’s a very expensive walled garden
Money.
Scum company
Because if they opened their walled off garden, there’s a chance they might lose profit and if they do, their CEOs might not be able to afford their diamond studded swimming pools and solid gold Humvees. Those things don’t grow on trees.
iPhone user here, because Apple likes money.
deleted by creator
Meanwhile, Whatsapp continues to be the most used messaging app in the world, with no sms or any other sort of fallback if you don’t have an internet connection.
The fact that people care about whether their messages are blue or green is so absolutely ridiculous.
I’ve known people who literally refuse to message anyone who doesn’t use iMessage (and by extension has an iPhone).
Every one of them turned out to be a twat in every other facet of their personality as well.
You sure it’s about that? What I heard is that being outside of “trusted” zone means less features such as media and encryption. Also the person in this article says apple users are basically forced to use sms to send messages to Android users. I too would not want to resort to plain paid messages if my partner doesn’t have the right app.
I worked in the cellular space for about 20 years off and on before moving to other pastures. I guarantee you that maybe one in a thousand think like you.
BY FAR the average buyer that Apple targets come in two flavors.
First, the “I’m cool and all my friends are doing it” and second is the “I’m the father, I don’t personally give a shit but my daughter/son wants us all to be on iMessage.”
IPhone users have access to WhatsApp, Signal, and other apps android users use to communicate without sms
The problem is that, in the US and Canada, android users don’t tend to use those apps en masse. The vast majority use SMS.
I think at this point the majority of Android users use RCS, which Apple is actually going to implement next year.
That’s good to know. Though I wish people I knew, both apple and android, would switch to Signal instead.
It’s not as good as we want it to be. Those using RCS on Android are almost all using Google’s specific implementation, Apple is instead going to be using a more standard implementation. It’s probably going to work better than SMS, but it’s going to be a far cry from everyone just using any modern internet messaging service.
Yeah, but iphone users are different as they already have some default app that they could use instead of installing other apps. Wouldn’t they want to use that default app as often as possible if their partners have the same ability from their pov? I mean it’s not about the color as the original comment thinks, but about the stuff that the different color implies. Not the thing that is nice to the eyes, but the actual convenience and price.
It’s not blue vs green but encrypted or not.
It’s definitely the blue vs green bubbles. Your average user doesn’t even know iMessage is E2EE. They also don’t care.
Def agree that the vast majority don’t care about E2EE (though that’s probably growing with more news articles like that one where they went after someone for abortion and got their Facebook messages to prove it) I think it’s less about blue/green and more about how shitty the interop is. I don’t know anyone who is like “I won’t talk to green bubbles” but I know plenty who get annoyed when it fucks up the group chat or either side is stuck looking at a postage-stamp sized grainy image (if it even gets delivered.) Really, really blows that the predominate message services in the states are Apple-only iMessage, owned by Facebook, or SMS. I’m over 30, so I am not on Snap and most of my friends aren’t, I refuse to use Facebook products, so we’re stuck with SMS.
Yeah use Signal. Encrypted messages without a thousand dollar dependency.
Apparently it breaks group chats, notwithstanding that it’s an Apple problem, Signal exists and doesn’t feature any of this nonsense.
I’m in more than one group chat with android people, and it’s fine.
It’s just that you can’t use some iMessage features. But nothing is really broken.
Welcome to Middle School. Blue bubble and ‘Find My’ support are feature drivers. You’re either in or out.
Ironically, Spotify and x-platform playlist sharing (aka mixtapes) drive counter-adoption.
Go figure.
Messaging apps in general are basically walled gardens.
Gasp, we should try making a federated alternative.
I don’t know what may have changed as I am an iPhone user, but about 10 years ago I worked in a small security role for a fairly large company, and the communications company we were using was more than happy to hand over sms logs as plain text. I would personally never send messages to anyone I was sure wasn’t encrypted and I can tell that by the blue bubble. I just don’t know when it is green.
I don’t know what has changed as I don’t keep up with it, but I am still dubious about messaging outside the Apple ecosystem, which is ok for me as I live in a country where most people use iOS
RCS on Android defaults to E2E encryption now since some year back, and Signal has been around for a long time now
Yes had a business owner come in and demand all employee phones be iPhone or get out. Jobs was his personal hero and thought Apple could do no wrong. The issue was the company he bought was run on software made for Windows. A lot of extra effort went into making it work on macbooks he insisted we all use.
In the end he believed he was as great as Jobs. Not sure that’s a great role model across the board for those that know more than just the apple procducts. The family values and toxic *work practices were not for everyone.
I was glad to get out of that company and back to my android phone and now Linux computing.
I will say the 3 good things about my iPhone was the camera, the full resolution media sharing with other iPhone users via iMessage, and the gallery uploading to other iOS devices.
The latter two are still a weakness with Google. At least they are addressing it with RCS but its still going to take time. Google photos has cloud back up but I’ve not really looked into how seamless the media backup to all android devices has been.
Google photos is just cloud back up like iCloud backup for iOS devices.
Google photos is also on iOS devices, so you could have your photos on any of your devices.
Uh. It’s not that. Along w that is videos w potato quality, messages that never make it. Of course anyone reading your comment knows you missed the point.
Yeah.
Because Apple has a proprietary messaging format. They won’t adopt the standard the rest of the world uses or open theirs up for others to use.
They uh… are going to support rcs very soon so…
Doesn’t change that it’s shitty now and has been for years.
They don’t get credit for the EU pressuring them to be less shitty.
Yeah, I get that I wish they had done rcs earlier or whatever. Like I get not opening iMessage up, but at least support the best standard out there would be nice. MMS and sms are garbo
By choice or by force?
Hard to say. I think some eu stuff might have pressured a bit
This is literally perpetuated by schoolyard bullying. Anyone over the age of 20 will very likely be entirely out of touch with how big a deal green/blue is for pre-teens and teens these days. It’s pretty much a cornerstone in teen social structures.
Beeper is more than that. Beeper MINI is about that. But I’ve been using Beeper on my PC for the past year because I am so tired of picking up my phone a million times a day just to send someone a message. I’d say probably 90% of the people I know use iPhone/iMessage so having the ability to message them on desktop was a lifesaver for me. Really bummed it’s not working anymore.
Why doesn’t apple make web messaging available like Android?
Then you won’t need Apple hardware to use it
It’s because it breaks all the nice extra functionality of iMessage. iMessage is closer to Discord chats; You can do things like react to messages, send live emojis, spoiler/emphasize text, edit/delete sent messages, see when someone is typing, see read receipts, automatically send check-ins when you arrive at a destination, draw doodles, send full quality media, share galleries natively, etc… But as soon as someone with an android joins the group chat, all of that goes out the window and you’re stuck with boring old SMS.
Is it intentionally hostile on Apple’s part to bar androids from joining? Yes. But the reactions from Apple users aren’t entirely unjustified, because they’re left with a noticeably reduced feature set as soon as someone forces them to use green bubbles.
is bullying justified
So why not use something like WhatsApp or Signal instead then? Sounds like a terrible user experience to me. Nobody I know uses iMessage, everybody uses WhatsApp instead, which is platform agnostic.
But I’m European, so the iPhone penetration is lower iirc and they can’t stay in their bubble as much.
Because Whatsapp users are just as big “twats” as you call it. Try functioning without Whatsapp in Europe, you can’t, and no amount of excuses will get you out of it.
Any messaging network starts acting like peer pressure once enough people around you are using it
Wut? I’m in Europe and I’ve never had WhatsApp in my life.
My point wasn’t specifically about Whatsapp, it’s that you have to use what the others around you use.
I’m personally dying to see the DMA do its magic. If there’s even a dreamy chance of not having to have the big messaging apps installed on my phone in order to talk to people on these platforms, then I don’t want to stop dreaming.
In theory it would be trivial to open up the big networks, if they were each willing to expose a public, open API. The APIs don’t even have to be interoperable directly, they could let the client apps deal with that. It could be rolled out super fast if they wanted to – couple of months.
But of course none of them actually wants this, so I expect they will fight it tooth and nail, while not appearing to do so. Meaning they’ll drag this out for as long as possible while blaming each other. I expect RCS will be a perfect red herring for this, because of its complexity and the ability to blame interop issues on each other.
Is it intentionally hostile on Apple’s part to bar androids from joining? Yes. But the reactions from Apple users aren’t entirely unjustified
The reaction from Apple users is to blame Android users - which is entirely unjustified.
But of course, post purchase rationalization and brand loyalty play a big part in why people want to externalize blame rather than questioning their own decision or blaming their favorite company for providing a shitty cross-platform messaging experience.
This reminds me of the blackberry ping days, everyone and their mom acting like a diva for having a sidekick blackberry just to use ping.
Those were better days financially.
BBM was the jam back in the days before iPhone. If you wanted to be in on the group chats you needed a blackberry. In the last little bit they opened it up to more devices but the gig was up.
I still miss their icons.
They were never popular over here outside of business users, I always liked the tiny red LED. Sure, I can make the flag on my iPhone blink on new messages, but it’s not the same
Yes the light was the best. Some of the early android devices tried to carry on with this practice but screen time attention I suspect won the day
But Android phones still have multicolor notification led. In fact it blows my mind that iPhones don’t, I wouldn’t even consider a phone without it anymore.
yeah people should use this a a filter for people they should be avoiding.
Its not absolutely ridiculous and you sound like an idiot who thinks that everyone lives in the same little bubble as you.
Thanks for proving my third statement.
What’s the point of even using iMessage when there’s so many better options for messaging.
This doesn’t matter because everyone should be using signal.
Besides your mum, she uses WhatsApp to ask me for money
I wish!
With notifications turned off
Honestly for most people this is a crazy level of paranoia. The US government can know the metadata of my friends birthday party organization group.
Seriously. Who wants to know when people are talking to them? GO AWAY, PEOPLE. GOSH.
Why?
https://www.macrumors.com/2023/12/06/apple-governments-surveil-push-notifications/
The US government is forcing Google and Apple to share push notification data with them. Even if the content is not sent, the metadata alone can let them know who you are talking to and when using metadata correlation.
deleted by creator
I think it’s a bit crazy to create a paid service on top of a reverse engineered product that isn’t static. Indivious, NewPipe and other youtube frontends aren’t going to create a paid youtube frontend, because they know Google could kill that at any point. Google could dedicate a full team to making youtube frontends non-functional.
Apple has a much bigger incentive to derail iMessage alternatives because they know that dumb parents have taught their kids how to live in a closed ecosystem and be slaves to Apple. 87% of USAian teenagers use Apple, which means it’s only a matter of time before Apple becomes the dominant player on the market. If you want to keep making fat stacks of cash, the best thing you can do is control the market, which means killing of competition.
The only reason Apple would ever stop killing competitors is if it became legally and financially detrimental to do so. They’d have to reach Microsoft levels of antitrust and bad press before even considering backpedaling.
Everyone buying their products is helping Apple along to their goal of market dominance.
USAian
If you really want to go down that road, use something like “United Statesman” or something that actually fits the language. “Americanian” is absurd and people will take you less seriously for it.
Spanish has it: estadounidense (unitedstatesian)
Other than that, it’s no one’s fault but the USA’s they gave their country such a stupid name (stealing the one of the continent)
I really hate to break it to you, but the name “America” didn’t come from the Americans.
(And if the person I replied to had been speaking in Spanish, I wouldn’t have had any reason to reply.)
I hate to break it to you, but the name America as it was chosen by Europeans was meant to be the name of the continent.
The name USA was chosen by unitedstatesians when creating the country. A stupid mistake. Everyone else managed to pick a name, Canada, Mexico, Chile, Argentina… but not the USA.
USAian reads better than USAn 🤷 And I’m not going to type out “United Statesman” every time I want to refer to something USAian like a car. “United Statesman car”.
“USAian” doesn’t read better than anything when it’s a made up word that looks ridiculous. Just say “a US car” or “American”.
No.
lol alright then. Good luck dictating how a language operates.
Like you were trying to dictate how I speak? Yeah, I won’t be doing that.
No, my dude. You just seemed like a non-native speaker of English and I was trying to help you out. It’s what I do for a living. I’ll be happy to teach “USAian” to my students if it ever becomes commonplace vernacular that they would likely hear on the streets. Unfortunately since it’s kind of grammatically nonsensical and weirder to both say and understand, that might take a whole lot more effort to accomplish than you seem to think it will. Good luck though. I find linguistic evolution interesting, so I won’t stop you.
87% of teenagers use Apple
Do you mean US American teenagers, or North American teenagers, or who exactly? Surely that can’t be global?
It isn’t. As far as I know, iMessage is irrelevant in Europe.
At least here in Germany whattsapp is the standard. Apple has a phone market share if ~30%. In other countries the Facebook messenger is also quite important afaik.
But apple somehow managed to have pretty much all schools forcing their students to get an IPad. So the apple market share is increasing. I can not tell you how furious that makes me. Every parent has to buy one (or several) of those, so their children can use the most basic teaching apps, that any 100€ tablet could easily run. Poor children get an IPad on tax payers money, so I basically pay for my own children’s IPads and then a part of my tax money also flows to apple. I just wonder who (except Apple) got rich on that deal… I fxxxing hate politicians.
Telegram is the standard in Eastern Europe
That stat came from an article that made the rounds a few weeks ago that cited a phone survey of 1000 or so kids in one small part of the US. Small, poorly controlled sample size, so bad data.
Yeah, lemme edit it. USAian kids
The correct term for that is American by the way, not USAian.
Chile is American
Chile citizens are called Chileans.
Chileans, Californians, Texans, New Yorkers, Minnesotans, Britich Columbians, Guatemalans…all Americans
The point you’re trying to make is correct on a technical level, not a functional one. Unfortunately we can’t will languages into behaving in ways we think is ideal simply by making pointless assertions in obscure forums.
Yeah, I mean I totally get the annoyance of American being overloaded for both US person and of the American continents, but USAian ain’t the solution lol that kind of sucks (hard to say, no history to it, etc)
Give me a term less ambiguous than “American” and I might use it.
American is pretty unambiguous. What are you getting it mixed up with? No one else uses it. If you hear American, do you have to run through a list of other countries asking them which they are from? Of not, it’s unambiguous.
You could argue that it shouldn’t be the pronoun for a US citizen, but that’s a different argument than it being ambiguous.
Whatever adjective makes you feel better: appropriate, apt, fitting, correct, modest, less expansive, less assuming, less imperious, less opulent, less grandiose, less egocentric, less narcissistic
No thanks. The USA doesn’t represent all of North and South America.
I never said it does. I just said it’s the correct word. It’s not confusing or ambiguous. Only one country uses it. It also does represent multiple states in the americas, hence the name.
If that’s the correct word to you, fine, use it. I won’t. Just because one country assumes it can be eponymous with not just one, but two entire continents, doesn’t make it right, nor do I have to agree with it.
And I guess South African should be something else, because there are other states in southern Africa? Language doesn’t really care about being “correct” with terms. It cares about being understandable. No one knows what USAian is. Everyone knows what American is. There isn’t really any debate anywhere around what to call people from the United States of America, even among other American nations.
Yeah if Apple is willing to invest tons of money to keep using literal slaves (or at least to be intentionally ignorant about slavery in their supply chain) they aren’t going to be chivalrous about someone circumventing their intentional attempts to amp up class based marketing pressure for their apps.
I mean, the proof of concept is open source, so anyone can go out and make their own iMessaging service now.
I’m okay with paying for this because they need to run a service for notifications and they also have to play this cat and mouse game with Apple.
The fact that Beeper has already come up with a patch to workaround Apple’s block show’s that they’re going to work hard to keep this service running.
Edit: Beeper mini is still down, but Beeper Cloud is back up.
how could no one have forseen the most obvious outcome in the world coming?
From a business perspective, this was the stupidest possible investment. There is no way Apple was going to let this fly.
Why would you sink so much money into such a stupid product?
A lot of people seem to live in a delusional bubble where they don’t realize all the shitty things about apple products are by design.
Saw a few comments in the initial threads about it confidently claiming Apple wouldn’t be able to keep Beeper Mini out since doing so would mess with iOS too.
Super weird to be so sure about that when they obviously didn’t know shit about it.
All they need to do is look for which Apple devices are being used as proxies and blacklist them
Not in this one, iirc they actually reverse engineered and were working off of apple libraries, rather than proxies.
Does it make a difference? They still need to use Apple accounts and spoof real devices (serial numbers, etc, I’m guessing)
Yep. I wish Beeper had just stuck with the PC and iOS apps.
Back in 1999 MSN messenger had support for chatting with AIM users, it was quickly blocked by AOL and for a while there was a game of cat and mouse between Microsoft and AOL until Microsoft quietly dropped the feature
https://archive.ph/20120526215641/http://www.news.com/2100-1023-228960.html
Session? Signal?
