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Honestly let’s have some dignity and not buy into this vapid pretentious idiocy.
Right, I don’t understand why these weird hacky services are making headlines. If you want to have a blue bubble, just buy an iPhone. They’re not actually THAT expensive, you can usually buy last year’s model for under $500 if you wait for a deal and you’re willing to commit to a carrier. Or if you really can’t afford that, you can get an older iPhone basically for free. Even a 3 year old model gets you a blue bubble.
Or, if you’re not an insecure child that gives in to peer pressure, get whatever phone you want.
If you want to have a blue bubble, just buy an iPhone.
Expense aside they’re simply worse products. Can’t choose what software to put on it. Can’t repair it. Can’t change your dialer or your SMS app. I mean the list goes on.
This.
I had an iPhone for a decade with my work. Quit both of them and got an android. I’m way happier being able to do things more than one way and to be able to customize everything.
Phones in general suck, but if the shitty, android at least let’s you do what you want.
lol ok.
The vast majority of androids are worse for repairability. The ones that get more than a year or two of support don’t have any parts available. The ones that do get support have far worse physical restrictions like straight up gluing parts in.
The rest you mention, >99% of people don’t do anyway.
Are you talking about iPhone? Because repairing an iPhone requires specialist tools and specialist software. Oh, and it’s all glued together. 100% of people are unable to repair their own iPhone with replacement parts because parts are serialized and require proprietary software to unlock.
If you want to support these anti-consumer practices, that’s up to you, but there’s really no need to spread misinformation.
lol the only specialist tool you need is the pentalobe screwdriver and a suction cup. None of the rest is needed, it just makes it easy.
And unlocking the hardware for use just requires calling Apple support and saying “hey I’ve replaced this part and need it unlocked, here’s the serial”.
Nothing in an iPhone is solidly glued in. The battery has a couple of pull tabs to make it easy to remove. Something like a Samsung it’s damn near impossible to remove because the entire battery is glued down.
how to replace battery
But if you care, you can get a repairable phone like the Fairphone.
The vast majority of androids are worse for repairability
Yes but I can choose to purchase an Android that has good repairability. Apple, once again, doesn’t give you that choice.
The ones that do get support have far worse physical restrictions like straight up gluing parts in
Gluing components in is standard practice across the industry.
What’s absolutely not standard is intentionally serializing the parts and then refusing to make the software available so that their consumers cannot repair the hardware they “own”.
Or negotiating contracts with component suppliers to ensure they don’t sell components to third party repair companies.
Or sending ICE to raid companies who manage to get them regardless.
It’s an incredibly disrespectful and user-hostile company.
You literally only have to call Apple to have it unlocked.
Have what unlocked?
Even a 3 year old model gets you a blue bubble.
Damn, we calling 3 years old now? My iPhone 6 must be from the Paleolithic era then.
Lol I said it’s 3 years old, not “old”. That’s the not-so-secret secret of today’s phones: a 2 or 3 year old phone works just fine.
The point is open communication standard and tech illiterates like yourself keep repeating this Apple propaganda. Maybe read a wiki page or something idk
They’re adopting RCS next year. That’s the open standard.
Having iMessage on Android is dumb.
in other news 2.2 came 3 years ago
*They said they’re adopting it next year
So how is someone who makes a conscious choice giving into peer pressure and insecure
No other introspective reasons why someone could select a phone othe than an iPhone.
They said if you’re buying solely based bubble color then it’s based on peer pressure, there of course are other valid reasons for someone to choose one and there are also other bad reasons.
I didn’t say that people only buy iPhones because of peer pressure. I said that buying an iPhone due to peer pressure is silly.
what’s alternative
is bad for environment
My thoughts exactly. It’s fucking childish to make such a fuss over the color of a text bubble. These kids need to grow up.
It’s not just the blue bubble though. It’s being able to send and receive full quality pictures and videos to iPhone users without having to get them to install a 3rd party app. All the old people in my family have iPhone. They won’t learn Signal. Beeper bridged that gap.
Then use ANY other messaging service. Preferably Signal, but if that doesn’t work… Facebook, Whatsapp, literally anything.
Then use ANY other messaging service. Preferably Signal,
🤩
but if that doesn’t work… Facebook, Whatsapp, literally anything.
So Facebook, or Facebook? That might work for most people, but when there’s an open protocol right there, I’d rather steer clear of their products and services
Edit: add quotes
no one i know uses signal
Sounds like an iOS problem for iOS users to deal with. If I have a family member with Android, we just agree on a chat service to use and iMessage isn’t even a part of that conversation. Older members who need help can get their stuff set up during a family visit, until which a few green bubbles won’t hurt anyone.
Here’s how this goes for most people in the US:
If I have a family member with Android,
we just agree on a chat service to use and iMessage isn’tthey’re not even a part of that conversation.
I have a 5 year old iphone, it’s great. I can’t imagine it’s worth anything, just noting it works for every day use. You don’t need a new phone at all for anything.
ETA: I just NFC-charged my local transit card with my ancient-ass iphone the other day which is a thing I didn’t honestly know it could do yesterday. I’m not trolling, I don’t know what has been offered in the last 5 years on either platform that is at all required to use a phone, as long as Apple continues to support the phone with OS updates.
Peer pressure…?
I mean, I guess if you’re 16.
Exactly, it’s childish
Session? Signal?
Spoiler - it’s working again. Might be teething problems for a new service.
it’s working again
No it isn’t. If you read the article, the lead developer is pointing fingers at Apple, so no, not a “teething problem” either.
I literally sent a message right before posting.
You may be able to get a message out here and there but I’m in a public group with hundreds of users and no one’s is working.
They did eventually ~fix it though~. (Only about 6 hours ago).
Check your app store for an update to the app.
Edit: it’s only partially fixed as of right now.
The last update I got from Eric was at 1:30AM saying they still hadn’t fixed it and they’re calling it a night.
The old-style Matrix bridges still work, to be clear.
Ah, yeah, looks like they got it working but only for some accounts:
And…we might have spoken a bit too soon. It’s not working for all accounts yet. More work to do, we’re going to sleep now but back at it tomorrow.
That’s Beeper Cloud, not Beeper Mini.
I think it’s a bit crazy to create a paid service on top of a reverse engineered product that isn’t static. Indivious, NewPipe and other youtube frontends aren’t going to create a paid youtube frontend, because they know Google could kill that at any point. Google could dedicate a full team to making youtube frontends non-functional.
Apple has a much bigger incentive to derail iMessage alternatives because they know that dumb parents have taught their kids how to live in a closed ecosystem and be slaves to Apple. 87% of USAian teenagers use Apple, which means it’s only a matter of time before Apple becomes the dominant player on the market. If you want to keep making fat stacks of cash, the best thing you can do is control the market, which means killing of competition.
The only reason Apple would ever stop killing competitors is if it became legally and financially detrimental to do so. They’d have to reach Microsoft levels of antitrust and bad press before even considering backpedaling.
Everyone buying their products is helping Apple along to their goal of market dominance.
Yeah if Apple is willing to invest tons of money to keep using literal slaves (or at least to be intentionally ignorant about slavery in their supply chain) they aren’t going to be chivalrous about someone circumventing their intentional attempts to amp up class based marketing pressure for their apps.
87% of teenagers use Apple
Do you mean US American teenagers, or North American teenagers, or who exactly? Surely that can’t be global?
That stat came from an article that made the rounds a few weeks ago that cited a phone survey of 1000 or so kids in one small part of the US. Small, poorly controlled sample size, so bad data.
It isn’t. As far as I know, iMessage is irrelevant in Europe.
At least here in Germany whattsapp is the standard. Apple has a phone market share if ~30%. In other countries the Facebook messenger is also quite important afaik.
But apple somehow managed to have pretty much all schools forcing their students to get an IPad. So the apple market share is increasing. I can not tell you how furious that makes me. Every parent has to buy one (or several) of those, so their children can use the most basic teaching apps, that any 100€ tablet could easily run. Poor children get an IPad on tax payers money, so I basically pay for my own children’s IPads and then a part of my tax money also flows to apple. I just wonder who (except Apple) got rich on that deal… I fxxxing hate politicians.
Telegram is the standard in Eastern Europe
Yeah, lemme edit it. USAian kids
The correct term for that is American by the way, not USAian.
Chile is American
Chile citizens are called Chileans.
Chileans, Californians, Texans, New Yorkers, Minnesotans, Britich Columbians, Guatemalans…all Americans
The point you’re trying to make is correct on a technical level, not a functional one. Unfortunately we can’t will languages into behaving in ways we think is ideal simply by making pointless assertions in obscure forums.
No thanks. The USA doesn’t represent all of North and South America.
I never said it does. I just said it’s the correct word. It’s not confusing or ambiguous. Only one country uses it. It also does represent multiple states in the americas, hence the name.
If that’s the correct word to you, fine, use it. I won’t. Just because one country assumes it can be eponymous with not just one, but two entire continents, doesn’t make it right, nor do I have to agree with it.
And I guess South African should be something else, because there are other states in southern Africa? Language doesn’t really care about being “correct” with terms. It cares about being understandable. No one knows what USAian is. Everyone knows what American is. There isn’t really any debate anywhere around what to call people from the United States of America, even among other American nations.
Yeah, I mean I totally get the annoyance of American being overloaded for both US person and of the American continents, but USAian ain’t the solution lol that kind of sucks (hard to say, no history to it, etc)
Give me a term less ambiguous than “American” and I might use it.
American is pretty unambiguous. What are you getting it mixed up with? No one else uses it. If you hear American, do you have to run through a list of other countries asking them which they are from? Of not, it’s unambiguous.
You could argue that it shouldn’t be the pronoun for a US citizen, but that’s a different argument than it being ambiguous.
Whatever adjective makes you feel better: appropriate, apt, fitting, correct, modest, less expansive, less assuming, less imperious, less opulent, less grandiose, less egocentric, less narcissistic
USAian
If you really want to go down that road, use something like “United Statesman” or something that actually fits the language. “Americanian” is absurd and people will take you less seriously for it.
USAian reads better than USAn 🤷 And I’m not going to type out “United Statesman” every time I want to refer to something USAian like a car. “United Statesman car”.
“USAian” doesn’t read better than anything when it’s a made up word that looks ridiculous. Just say “a US car” or “American”.
No.
lol alright then. Good luck dictating how a language operates.
Like you were trying to dictate how I speak? Yeah, I won’t be doing that.
No, my dude. You just seemed like a non-native speaker of English and I was trying to help you out. It’s what I do for a living. I’ll be happy to teach “USAian” to my students if it ever becomes commonplace vernacular that they would likely hear on the streets. Unfortunately since it’s kind of grammatically nonsensical and weirder to both say and understand, that might take a whole lot more effort to accomplish than you seem to think it will. Good luck though. I find linguistic evolution interesting, so I won’t stop you.
Spanish has it: estadounidense (unitedstatesian)
Other than that, it’s no one’s fault but the USA’s they gave their country such a stupid name (stealing the one of the continent)
I really hate to break it to you, but the name “America” didn’t come from the Americans.
(And if the person I replied to had been speaking in Spanish, I wouldn’t have had any reason to reply.)
I hate to break it to you, but the name America as it was chosen by Europeans was meant to be the name of the continent.
The name USA was chosen by unitedstatesians when creating the country. A stupid mistake. Everyone else managed to pick a name, Canada, Mexico, Chile, Argentina… but not the USA.
I mean, the proof of concept is open source, so anyone can go out and make their own iMessaging service now.
I’m okay with paying for this because they need to run a service for notifications and they also have to play this cat and mouse game with Apple.
The fact that Beeper has already come up with a patch to workaround Apple’s block show’s that they’re going to work hard to keep this service running.
Edit: Beeper mini is still down, but Beeper Cloud is back up.
What’s the point of even using iMessage when there’s so many better options for messaging.
“Oh, what’s this unauthorized bullshit on our servers?”
[block]
I’m just surprised that it took this long
I’m really curious about how it was detected, how it was different from Apple devices. If nothing else I’m looking forward to reading about how that all worked.
It is usually easy to detect a specific client. Like even if you ignore the keys there are dozens of little details like the TLS fingerprint of whatever library they use not matching iOS. Things that are easy to miss and sometimes hard to bypass. Then there are heuristics on how it is used is likely unique.
From what I understand, their guess is that Apple is now checking if the device also has support for other services, such as FaceTime. Beeper Mini and pypush don’t pretend to support FaceTime, so it breaks.
Probably had to be extra careful to test. MDM software software might get glitched out.
same. there seems to be a lot of people that don’t realize some things don’t get done, not because they’re impossible, but because as soon as they do it a company will put a stop to it.
it’s like cracking a Xbox or something. the very next patch will render the method obsolete and nonviable. when i heard this workaround was coming for Android, my immediate reaction was how long it would last before Apple just changed something so that it doesn’t work.
Their hope was that they got close enough to an actual Apple device that breaking it would break Apple devices. It turns out they weren’t close enough, but they could be with a few improvements.
My bum has a crack, can they fix that?
Back it up on my hard drive and I’ll close your gaping security hole with my hotfix, sweetheart.
This doesn’t matter because everyone should be using signal.
Besides your mum, she uses WhatsApp to ask me for money
With notifications turned off
Honestly for most people this is a crazy level of paranoia. The US government can know the metadata of my friends birthday party organization group.
Seriously. Who wants to know when people are talking to them? GO AWAY, PEOPLE. GOSH.
Why?
https://www.macrumors.com/2023/12/06/apple-governments-surveil-push-notifications/
The US government is forcing Google and Apple to share push notification data with them. Even if the content is not sent, the metadata alone can let them know who you are talking to and when using metadata correlation.
Signal push notifications don’t contain any useful plain text data (no content, no information about who sent you a message). AFAIK the only thing you would be leaking is that you received a message on signal, and frankly that metadata is probably going to be leaked to the US government regardless of your use of push notifications.
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I wish!
how could no one have forseen the most obvious outcome in the world coming?
Saw a few comments in the initial threads about it confidently claiming Apple wouldn’t be able to keep Beeper Mini out since doing so would mess with iOS too.
Super weird to be so sure about that when they obviously didn’t know shit about it.
All they need to do is look for which Apple devices are being used as proxies and blacklist them
Not in this one, iirc they actually reverse engineered and were working off of apple libraries, rather than proxies.
Does it make a difference? They still need to use Apple accounts and spoof real devices (serial numbers, etc, I’m guessing)
Back in 1999 MSN messenger had support for chatting with AIM users, it was quickly blocked by AOL and for a while there was a game of cat and mouse between Microsoft and AOL until Microsoft quietly dropped the feature
https://archive.ph/20120526215641/http://www.news.com/2100-1023-228960.html
Yep. I wish Beeper had just stuck with the PC and iOS apps.
From a business perspective, this was the stupidest possible investment. There is no way Apple was going to let this fly.
Why would you sink so much money into such a stupid product?
A lot of people seem to live in a delusional bubble where they don’t realize all the shitty things about apple products are by design.
Can all the folks saying “I don’t care” on this just stop? If this doesn’t affect you, why are you commenting at all?
Some smart folks managed to reverse engineer Apple’s secretive tech that they refuse to put on any platform they don’t own, which is fucking awesome. Even if you don’t give a shit about using iMessage, it’s awesome they were able to stick it to Apple at all, and make the gap between iPhone and Android that much smaller.
And of course Apple comes in and breaks it. Do you not wonder why? Does this mean there was a minor security hole that was exploited or was it something else that changed? This arms race is fascinating, regardless of your preferred mobile OS.
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I understand that. But that doesn’t have anything to do with my point, which is that if someone doesn’t care about this issue, they don’t need to show how much they don’t care.
In fact, I would argue that your general sentiment – that of considering others in different situations than oneself – applies more to the people acting like this topic doesn’t matter because it doesn’t affect them personally.
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Not everything should be centered in America, or exclusively to what happens there.
That’s literally the opposite of what’s happening.
Rule no°1 on Reddit/Lemmy: Every user is part of the US unless stated different.
I read that it was a 16 year old kid which makes it more fascinating
We’re literally on a platform designed to escape these closed ecosystems and walled gardens. A platform built around open communication standards.
And still there’s a downright bizarre contingent of people around here that seem to be chomping at the bit to defend or downplay Apple’s iMessage shit.
That’s funny when most of the comments are saying “just use WhatsApp” as if that’s not a walled garden for messaging.
I’ve found the complete opposite on here. Outside of the apple communities but even those get trolled/downvoted from nerds browsing all like everything else.
Isn’t RCS an open communication standard?
Yes, but no. RCS itself is. Google RCS however, not especially. Google keeps promising to open up the bits they’ve tacked on but have yet to. Which includes things like the open end-to-end encryption. Apple will be implementing vanilla RCS which does not have that yet. But they have claimed if I remember correctly that they are going to help develop that. I don’t know if I believe that or if that’s just something they said to foster some false Goodwill
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Sir, this is a Wendy’s.
It’s relevant though. Attack their argument if you think it’s bad, but don’t say they were being off topic, because they were not.
is you don’t know what goes on in the real world relevant
everything i don’t like is entitled
Can all the folks saying “I don’t care” on this just stop? If this doesn’t affect you, why are you commenting at all?
Haven’t you heard? Lemmings are all about “Stay alone in a basement and never get out and socialize, because people use something you don’t agree with. If they really want to talk to you, they’ll switch.”
They didn’t, but now they’re on lemmy with more people with the same attitude, trying to socialize but never realizing why they don’t have any friends.
Reddit migration brought all the entitled, self agrandizing, freeloading, weirdos to the fediverse.
people use something you can’t use because walled garden
joined 1 month ago
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It isn’t “Androids “ anything. It’s a third party app. Way to stir things up.
Agreed!
Why is your account marked as a bot?
I didn’t know it was showing that. I’ll check my settings, and adjust. Thank you for letting me know.
Sounds like what a bot would say.
ok 🙂
Are you human?
I sure am. Are you?
Meanwhile, Whatsapp continues to be the most used messaging app in the world, with no sms or any other sort of fallback if you don’t have an internet connection.
I really don’t understand who the fuck cares about this shit. OMG! Can’t believe the world we’re living in now
Which losers are downvoting ? Show yourself, allow me to make an example outta you.
I downvoted your comment because it didn’t contribute into the discussion.
Fair enough but I gotta ask are you an apple fanboi or android ?
Neither, I guess? Both have advantages and disadvantages.
Lol I can tell that’s a lie. You sound like a apple fanboi. You just don’t want to accept that
If it satisfies the way in which you want to label me, ok. For what it’s worth, I’m typing this on a Pixel 7 and own a MacBook and a Windows 11 desktop for different purposes.
neither. both suck.
The fuck you gonna do, child? I hate both Google and Apple, downvoting you for sport.
Lol you sound like a apple fanboi aka THE KEYBOARD Warrior lol
who invite gen alpha ._.
More like Alpha Male. We don’t have time to worry about chat color and shit coz we busy banging yo mom.
is also tate fan ._.
If you have to say you’re an alpha, you’re not
I fucking hate Apple. Can you read?
Whoever gave it 24 hours gets a medal from me
Illegal Anti-Competitive / Cartel behaviour, yes??
Apple, you are only exempt-from-law UNTIL the regulators decide to do their jobs honestly.
THEN, you’re hosed.
_ /\ _
I mean, even the EU already exempted iMessage from the new rules.
Because they already follow a standard. SMS and MMS.
And with them adopting RCS? There’s nothing they can force to open iMessage.
They exempted iMessage because it’s not big in Europe. If it were as big as in the US it would’ve fallen under the DMA.
Exactly I don’t know a single person in Europe who uses or cares about iMessages. This is in the US only.
I have seen some iphone users use it with some other iphone users. But it’s very rare.
Curious, what are the most popular apps used?
Literally everyone I know uses WhatsApp. It’s probably been over a decade since I last sent or received an actual SMS (except for 2FA codes).
I’d rather not use a meta application just to send an SMS. I have WhatsApp but it’s only for communication with overseas relatives.
With RCS I don’t see the appeal of WhatsApp
The appeal is: 100% of your family and friends use it. A good fraction of businesses use it for customer service too. Not using it will have you left out of a pretty big chunk of social life.
And that mindset is why iMessage is popular in the US /shrug
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In Japan and a lot of Asia, most people use LINE.
WhatsApp
According to this:
- FB Messenger
- Viber
- Telegram
I use Telegram.
To be notified by my selfhosted bots
In the Netherlands: whatsapp. You can’t avoid whatsapp here. Telegram is used by a smaller fraction, but it got a bit of a bad rep during the pandemic due to primarily attracting anti-vax rioters.
TIL iMessage is still a thing.
Tentatively exempted. The decision isn’t final.
why can’t you simply foster openness and community god fucking dammit
iPhone user here, because Apple likes money.
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They’re adopting RCS next year, what more do they need to do?
Putting iMessage on Android just gives them a whole lot more control over the messaging ecosystem.
It’s a very expensive walled garden
Well, because it’s Apple.
Scum company
Money.
Because if they opened their walled off garden, there’s a chance they might lose profit and if they do, their CEOs might not be able to afford their diamond studded swimming pools and solid gold Humvees. Those things don’t grow on trees.
There’s dollars to be extracted.
