But fediverse isn’t ready to take over yet
But the fediverse isn’t ready. Not by a long shot. The growth that Mastodon has seen thanks to a Twitter exodus has only exposed how hard it is to join the platform, and more importantly how hard it is to find anyone and anything else once you’re there. Lemmy, the go-to decentralized Reddit alternative, has been around since 2019 but has some big gaps in its feature offering and its privacy policies — the platform is absolutely not ready for an influx of angry Redditors. Neither is Kbin, which doesn’t even have mobile apps and cautions new users that it is “very early beta” software. Flipboard and Mozilla and Tumblr are all working on interesting stuff in this space, but without much to show so far. The upcoming Threads app from Instagram should immediately be the biggest and most powerful thing in this space, but I’m not exactly confident in Meta’s long-term interest in building a better social platform.
It seems like the author is asking “why isn’t there a just-like-Reddit or just-like-Twitter site that was totally ready and waiting for this moment, and even though we’d never heard of it before now has everyone using it?”
Fediverse is different, and that’s a good thing. Because note how all of these corporate social media platforms are ending up…
The Fediverse has this really organic, underground feel to it that I don’t think I want to lose.
If people want to leave Reddit/Twitter/Facebook/whatever and come to Fedi, I don’t mind there being a 1-hour learning curve to read an intro, find an instance, and sign up.
Peeps who aren’t willing to do that are probably better off on other social media.
Is there a reason to want to compete with Mainstream Social Media?
I never interacted much with Twitter and I’m not a hardcore Mastodonian either, but I don’t understand why people say it’s hard to join.
For me, the process was simple:
- Install Mastodon app
- Create account
- Select a server from the list presented in-app
That was it. There was only one step (selecting the server) that is different from any other site. And it didn’t require SMS verification like Facebook, Twitter, and even Google do nowadays. It was objectively easier than signing up for Twitter.
Am I missing something, or did these people just shit their pants at the server selection screen? I get that it’s a little unfamiliar but…just pick one. It doesn’t really matter. That’s the whole point.
I think the biggest issue is finding the content you are looking for.
Sometimes people aren’t on Mastodon and even if they are it’s not alway easy to find them if they are not on the same instance.
I don’t understand why some people get so confused either. It’s just like choosing an e-mail provider.
Create the account, try it out, if you don’t like it, delete it. If you do like it, keep it. How hard can this be? Then again, it apparently is.
The client apps might help out by including an account creation wizard.
I sold computers at best buy for a few years around a decade ago, and this particular experience burned itself into my brain:
Me: introduce myself, ask what he was looking for Guy in his 30s: wants to look at chromebooks Me: tries finding out what he’s using it for to make sure it’ll be enough Guy: web browsing mostly, asks me if he can get his email on it Me: yeah no problem, what email client do you use now Guy: Gmail
It was hard to not laugh, but I am reminded of this when I think of the average person’s technical ability.
Why would you laugh? You asked a question and he answered.
I think mostly because it was unexpected for his age, usually questions like that came from much older people and it was surprising to me that someone barely older than me didn’t understand web based email. He seemed like a smart competent dude, so it was just not an answer my brain was ready for. Laughing might not be the best gauge for anything for me, laughing is also my fear response.
how hard it is to join the platform
I seriously don’t belief the learned helplessness that makes it hard for people to join Mastodon or Lemmy. It’s literally one signup page. People have just completely lost any semblance of tech literacy.
Federation is a pretty unique concept when learning about it and can be confusing at first. Then after you understand it, you need to choose an instance from god knows how maby and you don’t even know how to find what is out there. The first 2-3 days of my migration to lemmy was research. And while it is not hard with just a bit of tech literacy, it’s not as easy as finding one site and register - which can be easily done by most people with little tech literacy.
People have just completely lost any semblance of tech literacy.
I think you heavily overestimate the technical literacy of most people. I’d say majority started with 0 and stayed that way, because they only ever use stuff that causes little friction so that even they can use it. It’s not that people lost it, it’s that the way tech evolved it allowed people with none to go in.
I agree with the general notion that it is a nice filter for the feddiverse and might keep some of the most stupid at bay - at least for a while.
Federation is a pretty unique concept when learning about it Not really. All of this stuff is just a rehash of nntp and IRC.
Mastodon can be heavy on censorship by banning IP addresses rather than individual accounts. Not banning an account, but IP. So when one instance bans an IP, that means that IP is blocked from all users on that instance.
Twitter has never banned IP addresses, only accounts. Twitter does not keep a list of naughty words that result in immediate ban after posting, and suspended users can still reaxh Twitter to discuss the issue.
It seems that federated platforms are more ban happy than the corporate platforms. If Lemmy and Mastodon really want to challenge the bigger companies, protect offensive posts, protect mockery and insults, people challenging or correct someone’s statement, and distinguish them from actual attacks and degrading words.
If Lemmy and Mastodon really want to challenge the bigger companies, protect offensive posts, protect mockery and insults,
This sounds awful and was exactly the kind of thing that made me want to leave Reddit.
Exactly.
Why the fuck would "protect offensive posts, protect mockery and insults " ever be the kind of ethos anyone would ever want? Yeah, I would totally love being called a fa**ot 37 times a day, and totally want to be sure anyone can do that.
Fuck that shit.
The only reason anyone wants to protect offensive content is that they want to be able to post offensive co tent themselves without consequence. They might as well admit that they just want to say slurs and be done with the pretense.
And just to head things off: no, I am 100% NOT a free speech absolutist, and I think such a mentality is extremely harmful. It destroys communities and it destroys people.
Neither is Kbin, which doesn’t even have mobile apps
not everything needs a mobile app, sheesh. both kbin and Lemmy have great mobile websites.
They must be used to all the major social medias having absolutely butchered their mobile sites
“Mastodon isn’t ready,” I read every day, posted on Mastodon.
But the fediverse isn’t ready. Not by a long shot.
I, really, do not believe in the strength of this statement. There has been a huge injection of people into the Fediverse and this will continue. This wave has brought in an enormous amount of highly qualified programmers, sysadmins and the like. And these people are contributing to Lemmy and a bunch of mobile apps for the Fediverse.
I am excited to participate and watch as the Fediverse explodes.
I keep seeing articles posted on Mastodon about how Mastodon is doomed. Meanwhile, I only follow around 300 people, but my feed is constant.
If it’s failing, then someone forgot to tell it. Unless of course, by failing they mean “isn’t making money for rich people”.
…by failing they mean “isn’t making money for rich people”.
That’s exactly it. Mastodon won’t live or die by how well it can compete with Birdsite. After making the switch I see that it’s all I wanted from microblogging as a practice.
I don’t know why people look for feature parity between Lemmy/kbin and Reddit. With a bigger audience, its bound to happen that Lemmy/kbin will catch on features. People waited years and years for reddit to become what it “was”. The fediverse isn’t a stop gap. It’s the next potential platform once foss devs see the potential and have an audience to satisfy.
These articles always feel like the push us towards looking for a commercial option when we already have the right option under our nose. Just give it a few dev cycles.
Reddit has almost twenty years of development under its belt. How much development has it done in that large amount of time. I would bet Lemmy developers will run circles around Reddit in terms of how fast they advance the platform.
It’s pretty obvious that reddit has never really spent much money on engineering.
Fediverse is not ready yet, that’s for sure, BUT we don’t need it to be “ready” to take on big tech giant backend to be usable user dispersion. IMO, smaller but high quality user that cross critical amount to sustain the community is good enough. I don’t need to engage with another 20k people, I just need to engage with maybe 1~2000 high quality post/comment(not lurkers) in different domains that I am interested in. All the rest can have their own thing and we never really cross each other and that is fine.
What I think Fediverse currently lacking is the following:
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subscription can be abused, I don’t know the underlying detail, but if one user from small instance sub to another instance that have really big traffic, I guess it won’t deal well with that. There should be ways to tier or tag posts/comments so good informative one can be kept longer, but shitpots, meme, etc can expire quicker and not even archived. We really don’t need to keep all the stuff like tech giants do. (heck, even email provider starts to trim your old emails if your account exceed certain amount of storage(cause 80% is spam/notification mail that no longer serve any purpose.)
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easier way discover existing community. I really don’t like to checking “All”, search community function is updated to a bit reddit like so it’s really mixed up with post/comment and actual community. And low traffic community can be buried really far down the list. ie. I created Rocket League on lemmy.ca, and periodically searching for another to see if there are better ones. Then I found out there is none and my community link keeps “sinking” in the result list. There needs to have better filter for searching.
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there should have a say, a common bestof or community of this week community. Which helps with discovery as well. (up to instance admins decision of course.)
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the web interface can still be improved. One thing that’s very hard to keep track of even on reddit is how the branching thread and responses can be all over the place. It’s still kind like that here on lemmy(but less user make it more bearable. I am not smart and do not have a better alternative, I hope someone can come up with a better more readable one.
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Or to put it in other words: what features are lacking?
Do people seriously miss ‘awards’ and other not very interesting functions.
Moderation tools and bug stability are the things I want to see
Those are being worked on right now.
It’s going to be the same when people bailed Digg.
They all complained about the interface and lack of features but then spent all their time pasting ascii images comments and starting pun threads.
I would rather there be a slow decline in Twitter & Reddit than a mass exodus. An immediate consequence is the loss of signal to noise ratio and that would be too much to take for a second time!
[Apologies for the double post - liftoff indicated that it had failed to post both times]
A slow dispersal of users out into the wider Internet is probably best. It not only takes some pressure off the development side for all these platforms, but it also will hopefully help waves of new arrivals to these communities (like myself) acclimate to the culture change in a way that doesn’t destroy the community.
The only way the Fediverse gets ready is by going thru the growing pains that Reddit had to when we all fled from Digg. It also wasn’t ready then but the community stepped up and became mods and built apps and made it awesome. We will do it again… and this time it’ll be distributed and much harder for one person to screw over all of us
All of that didn’t happen overnight. It took literally years for all that to get baked.
It was at least 2 years before Imgur was created & then after that stuff like RES & mobile apps
Okay. So we’ll do it again in less time because we have lessons to draw on. This version of Lemmy is already better than early Reddit for anybody that remembers.
But it’s not about replicating what Reddit was about, then or now. It’s about getting back to what we had before the centralisation of the net but with the lessons learnt. To build a more egalitarian platform without the necessity to drive engagement at whatever cost.
We don’t need to, nor should look to set up tooling with what we learnt from Reddits failures. We’re building a new, better experience of the web and we definitely shouldn’t be looking to just migrate the user base from one site to a bunch of federated servers. We need people to definitely experience a cultural cleanse. Not to just have an exodus from there with all the bad habits and aggressions. We know where that path leads.
We are on the cusp of a potential paradigm shift of the internet and we can shape what it becomes!
Exciting times!
I knew this part would ruffle some feathers since whomever is reading it here is probably on board with Lemmy/Kbin.
I do think that for many it’s too early but there’s now significant interest into making everything a bit more stable and streamlined. I think Mastodon is already there but it is suffering from bad rep from their own waves of migration. I’m a bit worried it’ll be the same for Lemmy.
I keep seeing articles posted on Mastodon about how Mastodon is doomed. Meanwhile, I only follow around 300 people, but my feed is constant.
If it’s failing, then someone forgot to tell it. Unless of course, by failing they mean “isn’t making money for rich people”.
Paid fear mongering. You go to lemmy.world (or any other instance) and sign up. Done. It’s not difficult at all. It’s rich assholes trying to keep you on reddit.
I literally signed up for Lemmy a half hour ago. Picked Reddthat.com, searched for some topics I was interested in, subscribed, this is my first post. If a 50+ old man can do it, well…it ain’t that difficult!
Go outside
Touch grass
My only issue with Lemmy is that it’s not a true Reddit replacement, especially when places keep defederating from one another. Like I spend far less time here on Beehaw because it’s defederated from some of the major instances - I understand the administrators’ concerns about moderation but over time a lot of the activity will center itself around the most active instances (i.e., users may come from a diversity of instances) but only interact with content on Lemmy.world.
Every time I visit lemmy.world I find myself coming straight back to beehaw because insufferable people make lemmy.world feel just like reddit did and I just get pissed off after 5 minutes of scrolling. Beehaw is perfect for me specifically because there are less people.
The fediverse is ready, if you build it they will come!
I think there needs to be a sensible way to crowdfund the server costs, but I can’t see any other reason why it shouldn’t succeed
Nothing to it but to do it. How is the Fediverse supposed to accommodate growth before it grows?
It’s a ridiculous catch-22 to expect there to be a fully-scaled replacement for any dying platform to already be ready to go.
This article’s argument against Lemmy is nonsensical, which is why they try to reinforce their point by focusing on Kbin instead, which actually isn’t ready because it’s much harder to create and run an instance of.
All this pearl-clutching makes me want to punch a wall.
I initially rejected Mastodon, being overwhelmed by its decentralization. I even proclaimed it “too complicated.”
Not even 8 months later and I’m fine. It’s all fine. My hysteria was sound and fury, signifying nothing. This hysteria is also pointless.
Is the fediverse the exact same experience Twitter and Reddit were? No. Do they need to be? No.
No one pearl-clutched when Facebook wasn’t exactly like LiveJournal or MySpace. No one pitched a fit when texting replaced IM. Folks organically flowed from one platform to the next as need and want allowed.
Technology solutions change and evolve. No platform rules forever.
The conspiracy theorist in me leans towards this being manufactured “concern” because the monetization solution to decentralized architecture isn’t ready for prime time, and “Late Stage Capitalism” is trying to herd the sheep into a temporary enclosure of fear until their new “farm” is ready. This explains why all the financial and corporate entities are singing the praises for Bluesky, and casting doubt on Mastodon. Last I saw, there is no word on how Bluesky is going to be supported, but it has a Board of Directors, which tells me it will be ad and subscription based, which means it needs a lot of people.
Having a Board also means that Bluesky can go public and can be sold to yet another nitwit.
So if long term stability means I am going to have to wake up and do a bit more to shape a fediverse solution to my needs, it’s worth more to me to do that than to go all in on a platform that is going to force ads on me and wind up being sold to the next billionaire imbecile.
I think that is disingenuous. People did complain (and pearl clutch) about reddit as it’s tree comment structure was vastly different than what people were used to and the upvote / downvote didnt make any sense. But people adapted quickly just like they always do. This move to lemmy is exactly like how the digg -> reddit move went.
I wasn’t there for Reddit, but was there for the MySpace/LiveJournal/Facebook/Twitter migrations. There will always be those who are confused, but I have not seen this level of histrionics, most of it coming from those with an agenda.
Regular folks will figure it out.
I’d personally like it better if nothing tAkEs oVEr. I’m comfortable with the internet having more than one website.
I’m uninformed about the interesting stuff from Mozilla, Tumblr, etc. that the author mentioned, but I hope it’s cool and varied.
Lemmy taking over as a protocol would not be a bad thing, because by design it promotes the creation of multiple federated instances. At least the UI woukd be standardized, lowering the user friction in case he needs to migrate.
I really don’t want to sound snobbish, but people are really entitled these days.
“Omg you have to pick a server?! I’m going to have to spend more that 30s figuring out how this works? There is no alternative!”
When did everyone become a spoiled toddler? Just calm down, take some time to figure things out, and be patient.
/rant
I’m honestly starting to feel like it might be a net benefit for the barrier to entry to be higher. Since I switched to the Fediverse I have found that post quality is higher here than on Reddit, there’s less flaming, fewer low-effort overdone joke comment chains etc. Also it reminds me that there is better shit to do with my life than spend 3 hours a day reading a bunch of hyper-specific subforums that I’m subscribed to.
Well we went from an era where only a small portion of the population congregated online in forums and chats, which basically required you to either be a kid or a techie of some kind, to a world where your grandma was on Facebook because FB made it hella easy to signup and adductive as hell to stay. The Grandma (or even Parent) on Facebook types have never interacted with the internet in the ways we (rightly) romanticize
