- cross-posted to:
- hackernews@derp.foo
- technology@lemmy.zip
- cross-posted to:
- hackernews@derp.foo
- technology@lemmy.zip
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Are they, though? I’ve been using Firefox and uBlock Origin for years and I’ve not had an issue other than needing to manually update my filters three times since this started.
Yeah, however “worse” it is for adblock users, it can’t compare to how awful the ads are.
Exactly. I’ve spent 15 seconds of my life overcoming this three times. Click, click, click.
You’d be surprised how sensitive normies are regarding 3 additional clicks.
For us tech literate folks it’s a regular sunday but they are literally raging internally if they need another 5 clicks more than usual.Lol quite true
The proven reason why you can’t beat crowd sourcing in the millions.
It doesn’t seem to be working for me. I’ve never been blocked for using ad blockers. It’s still the same speed it’s always been. I have all these work arounds just waiting to be used that I haven’t even had to actually try.
Are they only doing this shit to like 12 people who write articles about it? Why wouldn’t it be globally done all at once for everyone?
Personally I don’t watch it in the Browser instead I use the AndroidTV app.
Amd I am patient in that regard. Can’t scare me with a 5sec delay.Yes, they are rolling these changes out in stages to make it harder for the internet to collectively address the issue.
Trust me, you will get hit eventually.
It doesn’t seem to be making it harder; shit’s in the news all the time and damn near every discussion on those articles has work arounds mentioned constantly.
If it ever does hit me, as previously stated, I have several solutions already lined up. Not least of which is simply using Piped. Which I could just use now, even without getting screwed… 🤔
That’s the point my friend. The articles and the resolutions are mudying the water. Which is easier:
Finding one post that states “on October 12th, my adblocker stopped working and the resolution was to update the block lists.”
Searching three months of varied news articles all related to the issue and with completely different resolutions.
By doing that you’re wasting bandwidth on all the CDNs that hosts ALL your filter lists. Updating the Quick fixes list should be enough. (Which updates every 5 hours automatically on uBO 1.54).
How to manually update Quick Fixes (Manual updates push back automatic updates.)
- Click 🛡️ uBO’s icon
- the ⚙ Dashboard button
- the Filter lists pane
- the 🕘 clock icon next to the uBlock filters – Quick fixes list
- the 🔃 Update now button.
mate, that won’t even scratch a single server’s bandwidth, much less that of a CDN.
@Frellwit@lemmy.world is right, the following FAQ is from the uBO’s YouTube Mega Thread on reddit.
How often should I manually update filter lists? Can I somehow automate this?
YouTube filters are in a list named
uBlock filters - Quick fixes. The list updates every 12 hours. It’s the only list you might need to update - only if this page says it’s fixed, but you’re getting the message.If you’re not getting detected. Don’t update. Current estimated cost for just ONE of uBO’s CDNs: HERE. This is with other lists updating every few days. uBO’s not a company, it’s a volunteer project using free services, which have limits that we cannot cross.
completely different scenario from a manual purge though
Whatever happens on my browser is client side, which is hardware and software I own. I can make what I own do what I want. It’s a right.
It’s like Google saying that I can’t skim a magazine in my home, and that I must read the ads. Google can do what they want server-side, and I’ll do what I want client-side.
It’s called a “User Agent” for a reason.
Client side DRM is coming.
They’re mostly there on Android already.
That’s ok. Us nerds have been defeating DRM in its many forms for decades. This will be no different.
Not really true for video games. Plenty of popular games still with uncracked denuvo…
You forgot to mention it’s also coming to all Chromium based browsers (i.e. Chrome, Edge, Brave, etc) as well in the form of ManifestV3
Couldn’t they fork Brave and have both a current and a ManifestV3 version?
Usually Brave already strips away invasive/unfavolrable stuff from Google before releasing. OTOH, browsers with inbuilt adblockers won’t be affected by MV3, as the latter only applyes to extensions. Inbuilt adblockers are part of the browser itself and aren’t constrained by whatever rule Google may want to put in place.
Manifest V3 doesn’t really have the real client side DRM. It just has the ad-blocker breaking API changes. The real DRM will be whatever comes of the abandoned Web Environment Integrity API. (It’s not really abandoned just shifted over to only Android WebView.)
And as a service provider, they can choose to degrade your experience. It goes both ways.
If the service degrades to far due to using ad blockers then I’ll just stop watching anything on YouTube. Easy.
Okay then. That was always allowed.
Umm, ok. You were not making them any money before, when you were blocking their ads, why would they care if you left?
A possible answer is because the creators that have their own sponsors in their videos want the view even if you don’t see the Google ads, so Google on one hand want you to watch their ads while on the other hand cannot afford to really lose you since that would reflects on the creators and then if a creator leave for another platform (a big if, I agree) Google lose all the traffic generated by said creator, both who use an adblocker and who don’t use an adblocker.
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Because the big channels will get a significant drop in views which lowers their sponsor pay and willingness to work with them.
I think you’re overestimating how many people care enough about this.
Remember when killing password sharing was gonna be the death of Netflix, and then they saw a significant increase in subscriptions and profits?
Except they want to send you videos. The power is with you, the viewer. Without you, advertisers will have no reason for buying ads. Google can’t collect your data either. Realise that you have this power. Youtube is not like electricity or clean water. We can live without it if push comes to the shove.
You have no value to advertisers if they can’t serve you ads. By not doing so, they’ll also cut down on bandwidth costs, so it’s a double positive for them.
You have no value to advertisers if they can’t serve you ads. By not doing so, they’ll also cut down on bandwidth costs, so it’s a double positive for them.
When you take your comment to its logical end though your comment makes no sense, as hence there’s now no one to watch the videos and earn money from them doing so.
You can’t force someone to consume your content, and if you earn money by people consuming your content, then the power is ultimately with them.
Plus, all this discussion, we’re assuming that serving ads is the only way that Google can make money off you when watching the videos, which is not true. They can do the same kind of things they do with Gmail and make money from that.
this assumption is only correct if EVERYBODY is using as blockers. They aren’t - so it makes sense to cut off the proverbial leeches
this assumption is only correct if EVERYBODY is using as blockers. They aren’t - so it makes sense to cut off the proverbial leeches
That’s why I said logical conclusion.
My bet would be the vast majority of people (what you call leeches) would eventually use ad blockers, as people in general usually do not like to watch commercials. (Again, speaking in endgame scenarios, AKA ‘logical conclusion’).
“Logical conclusion” does not mean that you suddenly add in an unjustified premise of “all people will endure some amount of hassle to use an ad blocker”.
I think the best analogy is Netflix’s password sharing, which not only didn’t hurt them, but actually brought them a lot of subscribers.
To be fair, what they want is to make money off of you, be it through metadata or through advertising. It’s just that sending you videos happens to be the model which they use to get the metadata or advertising income.
If they wanted to make money off of me then they should have kept the Pixel Pass as a thing so I’d have a reason to have YT premium
Or make YT premium worth it
But nah, they’d rather ruin the product I was paying for, so now they get nothing. At least then I’m not paying for it to get worse
They don’t want to send us videos, they want to serve us ads and annoy us into buying Youtube Premium, which someone using adblocker won’t see, or need. From their point of view they would win either way - if they successfully block adblockers it either converts us into ad watchers, premium subscribers, or we fuck off and stop using their bandwidth.
It’s funny because I pay for premium and have noticed a worse experience since this was revealed. They don’t seem to check if a user has adblock and pays.
They don’t seem to check if a user has adblock and pays.
They definitely seem to have checks in place for it. I have Family Premium and so far no issues at all.
Edit: to clarify, not a fan of any of this. Just saying it does work for me
The article says that this isn’t happening for all users, which indicates that they’re still experimenting with it and haven’t fully rolled it out yet.
I do have the issue when I’m logged out
Weird. It’s not happening to me today. Maybe it was something else.
Well, I don’t pay for premium, and I use an adblocker, and I haven’t had any problems. Not having a problem doesn’t prove anything if they’re only targeting a subset of their users…
Yep, they can send me 500s if they want to, too
Technically 400s would be more appropriate here. :)
Response codes only matter to good-faith actors
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Let’s just hope they don’t start injecting their ads into the video stream itself
They’re not saying you can’t have an adblocker. They’re saying their software will try not to serve you their data if you do, or at least make it inconvenient.
You have a right to your computer. You do not have a right to their service.
No, you don’t have a right to it. If they want to they can put the entire site being a subscriber paywall. That’s their call. But until they do that i will continue to access the site with my adblocked browser.
You do have a right to your computer. After content is delivered to you, you have downloaded data, and your own hardware and software acts to consume said downloaded data. After it is downloaded, even if it is in a browser in a cache, it is considered offline content. This also applies to streaming media chunks, too: once it’s downloaded, you have acquired it locally.
But their software is just blocking based on browser. Their message to you is not “don’t use an ad blocker”. It’s “use chrome and you won’t have this problem”. Theyre literally just hoping to abuse their position as a monopoly in video to try and strengthen their monopoly on browsers.
Is that why I haven’t had any problems? I thought it was either Google A/B testing again or my ad blocker updating often enough to keep up, but I do have a user-agent changer installed in Firefox that’s configured to tell YouTube I’m on Chrome…
They don’t have the right to disregard my right to privacy either, yet here we are.
Well… They do because it’s their tos, no?
That’s exactly what I said, yeah
Me after reading the 1st comment: “OK. True. Fair.” Me after reading the 2nd comment: “OK. True. Fair.” Me after reading the 3rd comment: “OK. Also true. Also fair.”
There was a rabbi arbitrating a dispute between neighbours. One of them complained that the other one gathers apples that fall off his apple tree and into the other neighbour’s garden. “Those are my apples grown on my tree. He’s stealing them!”
“You’re right,” says the rabbi. But the other neighbour counters.
“But the branches of the tree are above my property. If he doesn’t want them to fall on my garden, he can cut off the branch. But he lets them fall into my garden making them my apples.”
“You’re right,” says the rabbi and adjourns the diapute to be able to think about it. He’s at his wit’s end and tells the whole story to his wife when he gets home.
“That doesn’t make sense. They can’t both be right.”
“You’re right.”
Me reading you:
Fourth gosh darn level of agree
I’ll never disable my PiHole or turn off ublock tho
Fair.
I wish PiHole wasn’t so absolute dogshit about DNS requests from outside the local subnet, might use it then
I’m going to try ad guard today… That way I can keep my DHCP
Update: adguard does not block YouTube ads.
You can use PiHole without their DHCP.
Permit all origins, allow all destinations. In the settings.
Tried that, it just reverts back after a few weeks :/
Google can do what they want server-side
Sure, like not sending you videos. 🤔
You can, but as a part of doing what they want serverside they can ask for some kind of proof you don’t have an adblocker on the server-side, you can reverse engineer that and spoof the checks and it becomes an arms race just like we have now… You’re effectively just saying the status quo is a-ok with you
I don’t personally enjoy the status quo, but they’re not obligated to serve me any videos if they don’t want to. However, if they have given me media to consume on my devices, it’s up to me to decide how I consume the media that was already delivered.
And freetube is making it so much better.
What freetube?
Google it and join us in video paradise
What about sponsor block?
Freetube has Sponsorblock built-in.
Most of the channels I watch with inline sponsor roll from the creator, they do a good job, and I am entertained by it.
Obtrusive ads are frustrating.
Perfectly integrated, entertaining, on-brand ads from creators I appreciate? No problem.
You have the option to disable sponsorblock in freetube.
I don’t care. I was giving you the opportunity to inform others about something you think is cool. You blew it.
Something I didn’t even realize I wanted was to not have some eyeball-pulling algorithm recommending things to me. It’s lovely.
That’s why I’ve been using YouTube without logging in and if using in browser, I have the cookies autodelete after I close the page to start new each time.
It never really recommended me what I wanted anyway. I guess the algorithm doesn’t work on me.
Yep. Personally use Piped, but it’s the same idea. It basically saves me hours of watching useless videos everyday.
Now if only Piped wouldn’t error out and be unusable for 10 minutes at a time every couple hours…
It doesn’t for me, though.
I have been trying to figure out why since I started using it… searches spin forever, videos spin forever, some videos just spit “Error 1003” immediately, and then they become accessible 10 minutes later. I even tried filing an issue to no avail. I may end up looking for other alternatives.
Have you tried changing the instances? Some instances simply perform better than others.
I have, but the ones I tried weren’t much better. I looked again and there’s a few new ones, so I’ll try those and update if they work faster/more consistently.
I don’t know why they think this change is going to get anyone to switch.
5 seconds of nothing is still way better than a minute-long ad
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still not as bad as Chrome
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even in the event that it does get worse I can just downgrade or even fork it myself
one of the many benefits of open-source software
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Chromium is to Chrome what Darwin is to macOS.
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They want to sell their Premium subscription. They want you to compare 5 seconds of nothing versus “0” seconds of nothing. That being said, I think uBlock Origin with up-to-date filter lists completely eliminated this delay for me.
are people that impatient
Most people? Absolutely.
people ._.
They can try selling me their Premium subscription again when they start suggesting more than one or two videos (if that) on their homepage that actually interest me.
Not that I’ll ever pay for it, anyway. But get me something that I’ll actually click on to get served ads before trying to sell me something to get rid of them.
At work, we can’t log into personal accounts. And my job isn’t going to buy YouTube premium. So now any video tutorials on YouTube is getting impossible to watch.
This has now triggered a bunch of lazy developers into action in my entire company. Even our internal newsletters are explaining how to use adblock.
I haven’t seen any issues or ads on Youtube across all devices, except my LG tv. I don’t doubt they’re being scummy but the workarounds are working.
I use https://github.com/webosbrew/youtube-webos on my LG TV, to watch without ads. I have to sideload it via the CLI tools, but it works. Sometimes I have to reinstall it (I suppose some TV update screws up), but for my partner watching without ads is worth the random sporadic breakage.
I am so worried about breaking it, how would you rate it in terms of ease?
The procedure to install is very easy, you can also always uninstall it and reinstall the official one, I don’t think it’s irreversible in any way. Note that I am talking about side loading using developer mode. Rooting the TV via an exploit can brick your TV instead.
Edit: The procedure is basically described in https://webostv.developer.lge.com/develop/getting-started/developer-mode-app.
I realize I said very simple, but I guess it depends on your familiarity with tech and command line tools.
I have no problem trying it, I just didn’t want to brick it is all. I am tech literate but it wouldn’t be in my hobbies so I don’t have much in the way of skillset. Anything I’ve done has been with step by step and tools 😂
Oh no, I get it, I was quite scared the first time I messed with it, and I cursed LG plenty for not letting me install safely what I want on my own TV. I found this technique to be quite safe though. You basically uninstall the official YouTube app, then do the loading and you can always remove the app and reinstall the official one.
I hope I didn’t sound condescending, I just realized that I had been a bit too quick labeling something easy, while I understand that for some other person reading, using a CLI tool is in itself a new thing. Good luck :)
uBlock Origin
I still worry that google is going to declare ad blockers against their TOS and shut down my gdrive and 20 year old gmail. I’m trying to move away from alphabet shit but it’s not so easy with such a long history. To that end I haven’t even once used yt except not logged in on a FF private window with ublock since they started pulling this shit.
I recently created another google account for youtube just in case. Was a huge pain to transfer over all my subscriptions but worth it for not having to worry.
Changing mail providers isn’t easy when you use their domain endings as you’ll probably have to update a bunch of accounts to use a new mail address. For the future, use email providers that allow to use your own domain(s), switching providers is a lot easier then. You can export mails from Gmail with ease though, as long as they provide IMAP you can simply sync your complete mailbox and you could even upload all of it to your new email provider.
And Google Drive…simply transfer all your files to somewhere else and done.
5 seconds of nothing
It’s an eternity of nothing for me now so yeah I switched. To invidious.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Google has admitted its efforts to discourage the use of ad blockers now includes delaying the start of videos – a deliberate “suboptimal viewing” experience, as the corporation put it.
Earlier this year, YouTube began interrupting videos for those using advert blockers with a pop-up encouraging them to either disable the offending extension or filter, or pay for YT’s ad-free premium tier.
In a statement to The Register, Google admitted it was intentionally making its content less binge-able for users unwilling to turn off offending extensions, though this wasn’t linked to any one browser.
To be clear, Google’s business model revolves around advertising, and ad blockers are specifically called out as being in violation of its terms of service.
Google told us users who have uninstalled their ad blockers may continue to experience temporary delays loading videos, though the issue should resolve itself after “refreshing their browser.”
As we reported earlier this month, the search giant will be pushing ahead with a planned API change in June that will render legacy Chrome extensions – including ad blockers – useless unless they are overhauled.
The original article contains 468 words, the summary contains 183 words. Saved 61%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
As a premium subscriber, it’s definitely gotten worse for me over the last month. Whatever they’re doing on the back end, it’s pretty terrible.
I’m not sure what the hell is going on at YouTube but I’ve noticed a significant drop in decent videos being recommended, and a huge uptick in videos I’ve already seen showing up at the front of the feed. Probs gonna drop it when the price picks up and just go to nebula.
Why are you paying your abuser
Stockholm syndrome
Stockholm syndrome was made up to cover for police incompetence
Thats the first I’ve heard of that. Got a link? this sounds like a rabbit hole I’d like to go down.
Here’s a springboard article, if you want to do your own research.
The woman, based on whom the term was coined (the psychiatrist never even talked to her) wrote an autobiography “I became Stockholm Syndrome”.
There’s also the works of Allan Wade, a Canadian psychologist, who has talked to the victims throughout his career.
Basically when you’re at the whims of an armed lunatic, you might cozy up to them in order to appease them. The victims were also really afraid of the police coming in and shooting them. Which is pretty justified, considering the police couldn’t even identify the perpetrator before conceding on his demands and bringing in his prison buddy.
The guy with a gun, whom they’ve been talking to for days and has not hurt them in the slightest looked much less dangerous than the impending doom of the police barging in and shooting the wrong person.
There’s a ton of educational content only on YT and so it’s a part of our homeschool curriculum. My kids were getting a lot of super inappropriate ads a while back, so I got premium to avoid all ads.
What homeschool curriculum provider are you using?
Acton and we participate in a state program and several private programs depending on the kids’ interest.
Honestly: I’d rather pay for YT and pirate Netflix.
The amount of Entertainment I get from YT exceeds the scale of Netflix and I use it daily at 2-3h per day.And while yes, it’s free, I can also support the creators with a better click price than a regular click.
Is it a better solution then the respective patreon/whatever? Nope
Do I want to pay 5€/month or video each time? Fuck no. I am not king Midas.Yup, that’s how I see it too. I don’t like seeing ads, the creators do at least get more money, and the actual value I get out of YouTube is pretty high
Not to mention not every creator will have a patreon anyway so this covers that scenario as well.
My biggest problem with the ads is that it’s louder than the thing I’m watching, oftentimes a lot.
They are sometimes an hour long and I gotta press the skip ad button with my nose cause it’ll take me ten minutes or more to clean up.
I have no love for the automatic gadgets where you can speak your commands. They get suggested by my coworkers quite a bit.
They want too much for what is ultimately hours of people playing chess.
(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻Theyre also blatant scams. Whenever I accidentally open youtube on my phone when clicking a link the ad is literally claims of free money using ai voices of celebrities, “cures” for blindness that are selling watered down bleach, and other scams
Yeah any time I scroll through YT Shorts (Revanced doesn’t block those ads rn) 99+% of the ads are just the “This new government program gives everyone $6400/month trust this bad AI voice of Steve Harvey.” scams.
It just doesn’t play on my Firefox anymore.
Open your videos in Incognito mode, the block is cookie-based. I open YT on my browser in normal mode to see all my subscriptions, then open the videos in incognito with adblock enabled.
I got no issues whatsoever. Are you using any browser addons besides uBlock origin? I’ve been using ghostery for quite some time (which also has an ad-suppression engine) and that cocked up with youtube. Removed it and now I can use it as always. Firefox 120.0.1.
Privacy Badger is better than Ghostery anyway.
Instead of using a commercial server, it build its own anti-tracking list over time.
Made by a non-profit digital rights group.
And it works fine on Youtube.
Good information. I will remove it.
Interesting
We’ll still figure out ways to get around ads. So suck it Google.
Still using Vivaldi with only the built-in ad blocking, still noticing no ads, still noticing zero performance issues.
I use Vivaldi. I’ve been getting the ads mostly. I have to open YouTube in a private window and view from there. Do you have Unblock with scripts? My scripts only worked for awhile. The built in adblocking is just not working for me.
It’s just a regular install with “block trackers and ads” enabled. The only YouTube related plugins/extensions I have are tube buddy and dearrow to remove clickbait thumbnails. I don’t use unlock, ad block, or anything like that.
I mean they’ve also consistently been making YouTube worse for everyone not using Adblock, so it’s only fair.
Sounds like its beginning to reach the point someone may decide to code an add-on or extension that adds a “F*** YouTube” button to a Youtube Video page where if you click that button, it would take you over to the equivalent YewTu.be page of the video currently being viewed.
Are they making it worse than ads make it?
Not yet!
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