A German foundation has said it will no longer be awarding a prize for political thinking to a leading Russian-American journalist after criticizing as “unacceptable” a recent essay by the writer in which they made a comparison between Gaza and a Jewish ghetto in Nazi-occupied Europe.
On the bright side I really appreciate how many people speak out against Israel. I feel like their government has finally abused the “you’re either for us or antisemitic” card enough for people to stop caring about that bs.
Truth is that government never really wanted peace and many Israeli didn’t either. Not that Hamas is any better. The point is there are no good guys here. Just idiots and criminals and civilians who are being slaughtered because of the former.
This time, with social media’s pervasiveness, the pro-Israel propaganda is tissue paper thin. People are absolutely coming to grips with the fact that Israel is engaging in broad daylight ethnic cleansing and genocide.
Not that Hamas is any better. The point is there are no good guys here.
True. But if you saw a 20-year-old asshole beating the shit out of a 10-year-old asshole (even if the 10-year-old started it), you wouldn’t hand the 20-year-old a bat.
The 10 year old didn’t even start it. His big brother started it, then retreated safely home to watch the 10 year old get pummeled. When someone finally intervenes and stops the fighting, the big brother will come out and sucker punch the 20 year old again, leaving the 10 year old to deal with the consequences. Again.
The resistance to the genocidal state is, by definition, a lot better than said genocidal state. Until such time as Israel ends their genocide, nothing Hamas does in retaliation will be unjustified. Hamas is the good guys, for exactly the same reasons America, USSR and UK were the good guys in WW2
I think you’re confused. We’ve all been there, but your history is…a little off. Hamas aint the good guys, chief. We’re here to support average Palestinians. Hamas is a clusterfuck of geopoliticking and violence that only serves to further radicalize people. They’re not a solution to the violence.
Hamas is a solution to the violence in the same way the allies landing on Normandy was a solution. The only way to stop genocide is by killing a fuck ton of people, and Hamas is killing a lot of Israelis right now. If it kills a genocider, it is a good act. Hamas is only radicalizing people by stating the truth. They’re not the hero we deserve, but they are the hero we need right now.
I’m sometimes fine and sometimes flabbergasted with this german response. Can anyone tell me if they teach about the germans killing roma people in concentration camps as they found them? The murder was mostly about one group of people, but there are things you can learn from other minorities being persecuted.
I’m reminded of stories of muslim students resonating with jewish victims when visiting holocaust memorials, and being swiftly reprimanded for it by their white teachers. Because jews were the victims, muslims were not.
I’m sometimes fine with it because, well, at least nobody in Germany is shooting fire extinguishers at menorahs like in Poland.
yes they do (am German) but politicians are dancing on eggshells with Israeli behavior and the antisemitism-accusations
imo, uncritically supporting what the Israeli government is doing hurts the rememberance of the Holocaust - how can you sell ‘never again’ when civilians have to suffer like this?
The murder was mostly about one group of people
Funny how people focus on the final solution and completely ignore Lebensraum…
This is the best summary I could come up with:
A German foundation has said it will no longer be awarding a prize for political thinking to a leading Russian-American journalist after criticising as “unacceptable” a recent essay by the writer in which they made a comparison between Gaza and a Jewish ghetto in Nazi-occupied Europe.
In the paragraph the HBS draws attention to, Gessen wrote that “ghetto” would be “the more appropriate term” to describe Gaza, but the word “would have drawn fire for comparing the predicament of besieged Gazans to that of ghettoized Jews.
At the time it stated that “as an analyst of decline and hope, Gessen reports on power games and totalitarian tendencies as well as civil disobedience and the love of freedom”.
Supporters of Gessen, who is Jewish, and whose grandfather and great-grandfather were among family members murdered by the Nazis, have been quick to point out the irony of suspending a prize awarded in memory of Arendt, the German-born Jewish-American historian, philosopher and antitotalitarian political theorist who coined the phrase “the banality of evil”, in connection with the trial of leading Nazi Adolf Eichmann, which she covered as a journalist for the New Yorker.
In an interview with Die Zeit published on Tuesday, Gessen spoke of the backlash Arendt had faced as one of Israel’s initial critics, warning against establishing a purely Jewish state in Palestine and in so doing excluding the Arab population.
In an open letter written with Albert Einstein and other Jewish intellectuals in 1948, Arendt had, Gessen pointed out, even compared the Israeli Freedom party to the Nazis after they used racially motivated violence against civilians.
The original article contains 760 words, the summary contains 266 words. Saved 65%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
He’s not wrong. Been saying this since week 1 of this new stage of the conflict. Others have been saying this for decades.
Germans learned nothing from their Nazi past. Still love censorship and still love to consider some lives more important than others. They’te just acting like an Israel’s colony now.
I think Germany has actually accepted a lot more responsibility for the atrocities they’ve committed, compared to nearly every other European nation guilty of colonialism and genocide. I have British friends who were taught almost nothing about Britain’s colonial past in school, while every German has to learn about the Holocaust in school.
In a way I understand Germany’s reluctance to compare a Jewish ethnostate to Nazism, considering what they did to the Jews 80 years ago. But I think that comparison is completely justified and Germany should know better. Israel is an apartheid state, and Netanyahu is one Auschwitz away from being just like Hitler.They did accept responsability, but in itself has no value if they cannot raise their voices against another genocide that is happening right now. Totally agree with the res you say.
It still has value if it stops then from committing another genocide themselves. But yeah, they could be doing a lot better.
Yeah, it is not. Defending who commits genocide is not what you’d call a “stop”.
Yeah I completely agree. They know better than anyone what fascism looks like, and the fact that they choose to do nothing is sickening.
The lesson learned doesn’t seem to have been that killing large numbers of people because of their etnicity is bad, but rather that killing large number of Jews for their etnicity is bad, but doing it to members of other etnic groups who are still seen as untermenschen is fine.
Basically (and forgive me the racist terminology but I think is representative) they’ve just reclassified Jews as “whites, like us” and carried on approving violent racism against those they see as “not like us”.
Fascism might have been kicked out of Germany, but it seems to never have left the hearts of the German elites and many of its people.
Well, if it wasn’t obvious a “prize for political thinking” that’s organized by a specific political party wasn’t total bullshit to begin with, it sure as shit is now.
It’s very very much like the Polish ghettos. You tell me, did Jews in Warsaw get put into an open air prison? Did Jews in Warsaw have their food and water and electricity taken away? Were the Jews in Warsaw allowed to leave the ghetto? Were the ghettos bombed and terrorized by Nazis?
In the paragraph the HBS draws attention to, Gessen wrote that “ghetto” would be “the more appropriate term” to describe Gaza, but the word “would have drawn fire for comparing the predicament of besieged Gazans to that of ghettoized Jews. It also would have given us the language to describe what is happening in Gaza now. The ghetto is being liquidated.”
Not taking sides here, but it does seem to me like Gessen’s phrasing was deliberately provocative towards those who might be offended by their comparison. I’m left thinking, “I mean, if you kick a beehive, don’t be surprised if you get stung.”
Yeah seems like he wanted to kick the can and make a lot of noise but it does get people to talk about you.
I wonder if it’s braver and better to willingly shove away the pointless reward to try and get people to talk about a subject you care about.
Are you sure Masha Gessen is a man?
Nope. They use Gessen’s name the entire time in the article instead of a pronoun and I had a very androgynous photo to go off of and I may have misgendered them.
They are non-binary, FYI. It’s not an accident that Gessen isn’t gendered in the article.
Got it… Really wish we had a good way of representing that because it’s gonna take a bit before people stop defaulting to use of pronouns even with best intentions
Let’s start with the basic premise that German institutions don’t get to have a fucking little opinion about what a Jewish person may or may not say about the Holocaust.
I agree that she‘s displaying a lot of self-awareness here and I‘d like to point out that this doesn‘t make her comparison any less warranted
This must be the kind of stupid thinking they do in Germany I suppose.
100% accurate
The hypocrisy of the Heinrich Böll Foundation (and the German government in general) is incredible.
Here you have a Jewish person who is a journalist and a renowned political thinker who was being given the award for being someone who “reports on power games and totalitarian tendencies as well as civil disobedience and the love of freedom”.
They 100% have the position, right, and accuracy to be comparing the state of Gaza currently to the WWII ghettos.
Edit: Something else to note. The Foundation made this statement "“But Masha Gessen’s views should not be honored with a prize intended to commemorate the Jewish philosopher Hannah Arendt”.
And I can’t help but laugh. Do they not know Arendt’s past stance on Israel? She was literally one of the first world-renowned Jewish anti-Zionists.
She literally compared the Likud party to the Nazis!
That is incredible
What’s an extreme ideology without revisionist history?
I literally just finished reading this piece, and it provides so much context to this ridiculousness
1948, too. Lived context.
This is the real, actual cancel culture, and usual suspects are silent, as expected.
Do they not know Arendt’s past stance on Israel?
Partly jewish, German citizen here. I’ll answer this for you. No, they don’t. They never worked out their own history. It’s all just teathre.
Hannah Arendt would be punished as antisemite in today Germany. What a cesspool that country is becoming once again.
Someone had commented that, in today’s Germany, she would not have received the award which is named after her own name.
I‘m German, currently living in Switzerland and when I recently visited Germany I was appalled by the amount of unconditional support for Israel, for example a HUGE (maybe 10x10m?) israeli flag on the offices of the Grünen party and official posters calling for solidarity. I don‘t even think this is stemming from (however undifferentiated and misguided) historical considerations, rather than geopolitical considerations. Also on the subject of the article, I think that‘s a pretty apt and carefully done comparison.
I feel this really is because of plucking the historical guilt strings and “if you’re against Israel’s actions you’re an anti-semit”
But I am not in the know of the local German situation, so might as well be a wrong impression
Pretty much. It’s incredibly tiring
As just some asshole in America, the fierce blind support here seems to come from one of two places:
1- good old racism. just like the Irish, Italian, etc before them, jews have their “white card” with the bigots especially when the “enemy” are darker.
2- Religious nuts who think war around the holy land = the second coming and are going to root for anybody who keeps the war flowing.
What bothers me just as much is the Tagesschau app. It takes absolutely the same stance. There is no nuance. There is no objectivity. The reporting has a very opinionated view despite reading neutral.
I wonder if in 100 years we’ll be looking at Israel like we look at Nazi Germany nowadays.
100 years from now the MENA region will be uninhabitable due to climate heating and I doubt that anyone will want to visit it in some spacesuit.
They have long been at the point where the heat seems to impact their thought processes negatively. It will only get worse with more heat, I’m afraid.
That’s not what any of the worst case scenario in climate studies I’ve seen seem to think, what are you basing it on?
For the lazy, it’s their 6th, 7th, and 8th links.
Projected Air Temperature Extremes and Maximum Heat Conditions Over the Middle-East-North Africa (MENA) Region | Earth Systems and Environment
Climate change projections for the Middle East–North Africa domain with COSMO-CLM at different spatial resolutions - ScienceDirect
Climate Change and Weather Extremes in the Eastern Mediterranean and Middle East - Zittis - 2022 - Reviews of Geophysics - Wiley Online Library
This one also is relevant: Greatly enhanced risk to humans as a consequence of empirically determined lower moist heat stress tolerance | PNAS
Parts of the Middle East and the Indus River Valley experience brief exceedances with only 1.5 °C warming.
We’re going to start seeing that in about a decade. You should imagine scale and intensity growing over time.
You should also consider migration at least within the region. That’s not easy to model, but you can start by looking at the role of climate heating and drought in Syria.
Your links don’t support your claim, and in fact contradict it. No doomerism please.
I highly doubt that you’ve read them or comprehend the implications. The models have various outputs. Good luck with your optimism, but don’t expect me to work to keep your hopes up.
I skimmed a few, but I took your dozens of seemingly barely relevant links as a deliberate attempt to keep people from scrutinizing your claim. So no, I didn’t read all of them and I doubt you did either. If you did then please point to specifically where any of that supports your claim that Gaza will be uninhabitable.
Most seemed completely irrelevant to your claim but one paper showed a projected lethal heat map. It did not show any such heat in Israel/Palestine. This makes sense because west-facing coastal regions are protected from extreme temperatures by marine weather.
Just posting a whole big pile of stuff and saying ‘the answers probably in there somewhere and you can’t disagree until you’ve been thought it all’ is something conspiracy theorists and idiots do.
The first paper doesn’t agree with your claim so it’s pretty obvious you didn’t even read it yourself.
This is not a big pile, these are only 8 peer-reviewed papers. This is a tiny snack on a coffee-cup plate.
I read many papers every day, and I intentionally posted some that don’t 100% back up what I said so you can have more nuance.
You intentionally made the first one disagree with your argument to add nuance.
Thank you, I will be laughing about this for years to come.
Oh, I doubt that you’ll be laughing. Tell me, how do you think avoiding confirmation biases and sampling biases looks like?
In a couple decades we’ll pass a non binding resolution condemning the genocide of Gaza and pat ourselves on the back for doing the right thing. Then we’ll pass another military aid package for Greater Israel.
The difference is that this time USA supports the fascists
This time?
America supports whoever we think will benefit us the most geopolitically lol. Israel is a centerpiece in the MENA which can’t really be ignored for how much pressure they put on their neighbors.
There hilarious thing is we’ve got way more invested in Iraq these days.
I’ve got some bad news.
The US was fully prepared to support the Nazis right up until it looked like they’d probably lose the war.
I have more chances of going out with emma watson than the nazis had chances of winning that war.
There’s a pre/post battle of Britain and pre/post harry potter thing in there somewhere.
My chances go getting out with emma* went down the hill after harry potter, i get your point and I think its pretty valid
*point of reference is 2023
They would have had a pretty damn good chance if they had stayed neutral with the soviet union. I don’t think even American involvement could have stopped them.
I call bullshit. Why was the US supplying weapons to all of Germany’s enemies starting in 1941 (months before Pearl Harbor)?
Americans mainly wanted to avoid siding with anyone because they saw the war as a European conflict they didn’t need to be involved in.
You’re right to call BS: I provided no supportive evidence. I’ll try to do so.
The US “dealers of death” '(a precursor name of the military industrial complex) were happy to sell to anyone who was buying. Commercial support is only relevant as a source for lobbying.
The (strictly non-interventionalist at the time) US government officially wanted to avoid involvement in a war as a belligerent. That doesn’t preclude sympathy within Congress or amongst the people for either side. The popularity of “America First” and Lindbergh in particular demonstrate that.
Germany was compelled to declare war against the US because of Pearl Harbour, the US’ declaration was just reciprocation. The US, now busy in the Pacific, entered the European theatre only after operation
barbossabarbarossa, noting that Germany had already made its fatal strategic blunder and was weakened from its battle of Britain defeat.The Wikipedia articles have good sources and are well edited. They’re a good place to find entry points into the histories.
Everything you just said is correct as far as I know, but I don’t think it supports your original statement. The US was acting like Switzerland, which is scummy as hell when one side of a conflict is clearly in the wrong, but that doesn’t mean the US waited until Germany looked like it was losing. I’m not that much of a WWII scholar, but I was as a kid, and I wouldn’t say Germany was clearly losing until after the D-day invasion in mid 1944. That’s certainly the position assumed by popular portrayals of WWII, such as Jojo Rabbit and Downfall, to pick a US example and the one German one I know.
I wouldn’t use Hollywood as a source. What sells well to the American public? America winning the war.
In British media, it’s the battle of Britain.
I imagine Soviet media would show it as operation
barbossabarbarossa.But yes, scummy as hell.
Barbarossa. It’s Operation Barbarossa. And again, you continue to ignore the political reality that at least two giant constituencies in the US had very good reasons for not wanting to get into the European war. In a democracy, their views could not be ignored, no matter what others may have thought was the right thing to do. As I constantly find myself repeating to people on lemmy, winning an election doesn’t mean that you get to do anything you want, it means that you can probably do some of the things you want and will have to compromise on others.
True, it’s not a real source. But I think it says something when media from both sides of the conflict paint the same picture.
Bullshit. The pro-Nazi elements in the US were never anywhere close to being a majority and were never close to implementing pro-Nazi policies. At worst, the US government was guilty of remaining neutral and continuing to do business with Nazi Germany, but that’s a far cry from supporting the Nazis. This is pure revisionist tripe.
It’s also worth mentioning that at that time the two largest ethnicities in the US were Irish and German immigrants or their immediate descendants. With the famine still in living memory and Irish independence still relatively recent, Irish-Americans were very leery of joining the war on the side of the UK, while German-Americans obviously weren’t necessarily keen on fighting the country from which they’d immigrated. These two constituencies were far too important to be ignored politically, and that’s a huge part of why it took the attack at Pearl Harbor for the US to do the right thing.
Do you have a source for that? I tried searching but didn’t seem to find what you’re referring to.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/America_First_Committee is about all I can find in a few minutes.
Apologies, for not having more or better.
That talks about a group of around 800,000 in a population of over 132,000,000. That’s not exactly “the US”.
I think they’re talking about American Nazi party involvement in the 1930’s (sources in the comment below the question) at the time leading up to America’s involvement, not necessarily official American foreign policy.
it’s certainly an interesting revisionist question (i.e. if America had been on the axis side of the war), but it’s definitely a-historical.
Well, if history is indeed cyclical, then in a 100 years Palestinians will have their own ethnostate and oppressing a different peoples. My guess is Kurds. /s
Not likely. Conjuring new nations out of former colonies isn’t really doable anymore.
You’d think supporting the west supporting Nazi’s comitting genocide would never be doable anymore yet here we are.
In a 100 years it might, after our current world order has been consumed by the effects of unimpeded climate change. There’s hope yet for the Palestinians to have a go. /s
Damn, I forgot about climate change. I don’t do that often these days.
If they end up losing.
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What it is obvious, is that school let you down not teaching you how to read.
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That’s the opposite of what they’re doing. Germanys being way too careful to not offend Israel right now, in my opinion. They’re upset that someone is saying Israel is approaching nazi levels, not that what’s happening now is worse than the holocaust nor are they minimizing the holocaust.
Huh, the IDF is currently pushing Gazans into smaller and smaller areas by not allowing them to evacuate through their lines and forcibly removing civilians who didn’t evacuate.
They also plan to maintain the blockade they’ve had on the strip that heavily restricts people and material from moving.
What historical parallel could there possibly be to this situation?
Oh well. Better not listen to the guy who studied it hard enough to earn the award in the first place.
Hannah Arendt prize for political thought
Genocide Expert Award Rescinded After Genocide Expert Compares Genocide To Genocide
