• @[email protected]
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    382 years ago

    I blame the touchscreen first ideology. Give em some physical buttons that you can feel without taking your eyes off the road.

    That and the sheer power can make accidents happen faster than you can react.

    • @[email protected]
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      1 year ago

      This is a very good point. The more a person is forced to take their eyes off the road, the less safe they become as a driver.

    • @[email protected]
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      1 year ago

      Those cars with only touchscreen terrify me. I don’t even dare to turn down the AC in the EV car I drove last month when I feel a little cold because it would took THREE precision taps (small UI buttons) at DIFFERENT locations on the screen just to open the Climate Control screen. I have to pull over just to adjust the fan speed, smh.

      The dashboard is also a fucking screen with multiple tabs that I have to “scroll” through with a knob on the wheel.

      I hate the fucking thing the entire time I’m driving it.

  • @[email protected]
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    1162 years ago

    i know many of you all just LOVE to hate on Tesla, it’s like the shit flavor of he year for hating and no doubt Elon’s shit fuckery is partially driving it, but honestly this is an absolutely classic Forbes piece of garbage. Firstly, it’s a masterclass in selective bias - focusing solely on Tesla while barely whispering about Ram’s near-similar accident rates. Classic move to sensationalize one brand over another. Then there’s the U.S. only scope, which conveniently ignores the global context which could paint a vastly different picture. The article kicks off with a ‘non-causal’ disclaimer but then spends the rest of the time subtly linking Tesla’s Autopilot to the high accident rate, without concrete evidence. It’s a bit like saying ‘no offense’ before offending someone.

    The Tesla recall is mentioned, sneakily implying a connection to the accident rate, despite the lack of direct correlation. The article is less about informing and more about crafting a narrative that fits a preconceived notion, all while skating on thin ice made of half-truths and strategic omissions.

      • Zoolander
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        212 years ago

        They’re not, though. Elon can suck it but my Tesla is the best vehicle I’ve ever owned and it’s not even close.

        • @[email protected]
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          92 years ago

          I love that you were downvoted, for all we know your previous vehicle was a Daewoo or something. A Tesla is likely a better quality vehicle than a Daewoo.

          • Zoolander
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            82 years ago

            Lemmy is pretty toxic. There are 5 opinions allowed on here and your personal experience is irrelevant.

            • @[email protected]
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              31 year ago

              Pretty much. I’m looking through the replies I’ve received, and one says, “You sound like a forbes article” with two upvotes and only one downvote. Why would I continue to contribute to this community if that’s how people are going to act?

              • Zoolander
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                21 year ago

                There’s a small center of people who are actually knowledgeable and courteous here. You just have to wade through the shit and sewage to get to it.

                • @[email protected]
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                  21 year ago

                  Yeah, and I need to get back to blocking people. The signal improved drastically when I was doing that a while back.

          • @[email protected]
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            1 year ago

            You sound like a forbes article

            Edit for clarification. My comment was intended to a be a bit tongue in cheek and its because of this part of the top comment that i made what i thought was clearly a light hearted joke. Sorry if it wasnt so obvious

            The article is less about informing and more about crafting a narrative that fits a preconceived notion, all while skating on thin ice made of half-truths and strategic omissions.

            In response to the assertion of owning a Daewoo. I assumed your comment i replied to was also referencing this quote

        • Bizzle
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          182 years ago

          I heard that you don’t even have to open the door, you just slide in through a panel gap

        • @[email protected]
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          102 years ago

          Ah yes a personal anecdote is 100% more valid.

          That said, from what I’ve heard the big problem is the disparity of build quality. Some Tesla’s (like possibly yours) are built amazing. Some others are put together like shit.

          • gian
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            72 years ago

            Which is basically true for every brand, not only Tesla.

            • @[email protected]
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              1 year ago

              Every brand isn’t evangelized in the same way the cult of Elon pushed their golden goose. They’re run of the mill or worse than industry averages.

              https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/who-makes-the-most-reliable-cars-a7824554938/

              https://www.jdpower.com/business/press-releases/2022-us-initial-quality-study-iqs

              Couple this with the ridiculous price point on the vehicles and you have apple cars so to that point I can understand the delusional obsession with the brand and supporting it

              • gian
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                21 year ago

                Every brand isn’t evangelized in the same way the cult of Elon pushed their golden goose.

                Maybe, but ask an Alfa Romeo fans about the brand… they are way worse than the Tesla fans… 😉

                They’re run of the mill or worse than industry averages.

                Look, I can tell way worse things about Renault if I look at how my car came out, so ? And I would concede that Tesla is pretty new to mass producted cars. During the years I found many quality problems also with brand that are even more evangelized and have a way longer history.

                Couple this with the ridiculous price point on the vehicles and you have apple cars so to that point I can understand the delusional obsession with the brand and supporting it

                In Italy, a couple of models (Y and 3) are pretty much aligned with other brand’s cars of the same category, so they don’t seems to be that expensive. Or the other brands are too expensive.

          • Zoolander
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            82 years ago

            At least I provided some kind of evidence, even if it’s an anecdote. You made a generalization with absolutely no evidence.

            That’s fine if there’s a disparity but it’s not as common as your statement makes it seem.

        • @[email protected]
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          2 years ago

          but my Tesla is the best ve

          Sadly, you’ll never be able to say anything nice about any Musk properties here without massive downvotes by people who wouldn’t purchase anything from Musk.

          The hardware (occasional bad quality control aside) is pretty awesome. My neighbor has one, His holiday update was an absolute hoot. They’re fast, clean, comfortable and are generally long lasting, low maintenance cars.

          When you factor in EV and Price, there’s nothing that stands out as nicer from a pure hardware standpoint.

          They could use a few more buttons inside. When they become disabled on the road, their requirement for you to have them do the towing and taking hours to do so sucks. Suing people over selling their vehicles second hand is pretty bad. No second party repairs allowed is a problem.

          The real 800 lb gorilla in the room is the autopilot. The only redeemable thing about the auto pilot is that it mostly works and it’s pushing the tech forward. They have enough money to lobby congress to make it legal, all those 730+ wrecks and *42+ deaths as horrible as they are, will lead us to the feature being viable eventually.

          *edit: found a newer source

          • Zoolander
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            102 years ago

            I bought mine way before Musk became a right-wing nutjob asshole and wouldn’t buy another of his cars now unless something changed with their leadership structure.

            That doesn’t mean that I can retroactively say the car sucks now. It is a fantastic vehicle. I don’t use Autopilot so that part doesn’t apply (tried it during a trial and wasn’t impressed) but, as a car, I have no qualms.

            • @[email protected]
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              52 years ago

              Yeah, I wonder if he became one, or if he was already one and just did a better job at hiding it.

              • Zoolander
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                62 years ago

                Probably a bit of both. Before the hair plugs, he probably did want to help the world. Now he just wants to help himself.

        • @[email protected]
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          2 years ago

          Are you comparing with other cars at the same price range or cheaper cars?

          I don’t know but based from my experience(since you also commented based on your experience), compared to some other brands although Tesla are better than some cheaper models of other brands, some are better than Tesla if you compared to the models with the same price range

          Yes, some brands might be worse, but Tesla is not quite considered as being the best

          • Zoolander
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            102 years ago

            Some cheaper, some the same price range.

            What’s your experience based on? Do you own one? Or is this just third-hand?

            I don’t care what it’s considered. It’s the best car I’ve ever owned and I’ve owned Fords, Dodges, VWs, Toyotas, and BMWs.

    • @[email protected]
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      72 years ago

      How exactly could this study give a concrete reason for the higher than average crash rates?

    • @[email protected]
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      52 years ago

      They also don’t make any adjustment for fault. Tailgating a Tesla is just a bad idea, they brake insanely fast.

    • @[email protected]
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      142 years ago

      When this was posted yesterday, I brought up issues with the sample selection (not random) and universe the “study” looked at (people using one of those sites to shop for insurance), and while I think most understood my point, some people got upset at me “defending Tesla drivers”…

    • Lev_Astov
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      Last time a garbage clickbait hit-piece like this pissed me off, I looked into the crash statistics myself and found Tesla vehicles were around 1/80th the average crash ratio per capita.

      I’m sure this is somewhat skewed by the kinds of people driving them versus the average work vehicles and clunkers out there, but still, it just feels absurdly false to claim Teslas even approach the highest crash rate.

      And even the sketchy “study” not even endorsed by the site it’s posted to, then linked by Forbes, then says Ram vehicles as the highest crash rate (lol), so it’s wild that Forbes goes on to say it’s Tesla at the top spot.

      • @[email protected]
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        62 years ago

        Comparing with the per capita means nothing here, you need to compare with other car companies, as comparing to the per capita is like comparing the number of lung cancer deaths to the number of all deaths, of course it’s going to be a very small number, but when you compare with other cancers then you can see that lung cancer is one of biggest killers amongst cancers

    • GhostalmediaOP
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      102 years ago

      To be fair, Tesla / Musk spend a LOT of time talking about how they’re autonomous driving product are critical for reducing accidents and saving lives. Also, there isn’t a lot of public quantitative data around this major recall. That’s why they’re getting the headline.

      Maybe autopilot is great, and it’s the non-autopilot drivers that are terrible, but right now, the brand has net accident rate that rivals a company that sells massive rolling blind spots to people who love Calvin pissing stickers.

    • @[email protected]
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      11 year ago

      Thank you. This is exactly right, it’s a hit piece designed to get people who already don’t like Tesla all worked up… and it worked remarkably well.

  • @[email protected]
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    42 years ago

    NPC drivers. In the 90s it was Toyotas, then entry level Nissans took over in the mid 2000s … And now we got Tesla

  • nicetriangle
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    I have a hard time seeing why the average person should have a zero to 60 in the sub 6 second range. People fucking suck at driving.

    • @[email protected]
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      232 years ago

      A coworker of mine was recently bragging about their new electric mustang and its zero to sixty time. “Have you ever gone zero to sixty?” was my only response. Of all the facts and figures, 0-60 has you to be one of the least important when buying a car.

      • @[email protected]
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        182 years ago

        Being able to accelerate to highway speeds quickly is useful when merge lanes are short. We have a car that kind of struggles with that, and it’s pretty scary sometimes merging into 70 mph traffic. Normally it’s not a major issue, but one ramp we sometimes use is designed poorly - it’s curvy, so you can’t accelerate to highway speed until after the final curve, then it’s up a hill, and of course there’s a short merge area into traffic that’s usually doing about 70 mph. So, there, I REALLY miss the power our previous car had. It’s a frustrating experience.

        • @[email protected]
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          When I got my license back in the early 2000s I got taught very economical driving, generally choosing gears to keep rpm low, use the motor brake to decelerate before traffic lights, such stuff. Then it was time to get on the Autobahn, and the instructor just said “Forget everything I taught you, now it’s safety first: Floor it in 3rd gear, merge in third gear, once you’ve found your position switch directly to 5th you’ll be fast enough.”

          If I’m not mistaken that was an Audi A4 TDI so… 15 seconds 0 to 100? Maybe about 10, don’t remember the displacement. Of course, merging is more like 30 to 120, directly onto the second lane. With a Punto you’re kinda lucky if you get to 80 by the time the on-ramp ends and barely get into the right-most lane (where you’re probably staying).

      • @[email protected]
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        252 years ago

        Only up to a certain point. My Kia Rio has a 0-60 of like 16 seconds… overtaking even on a clear road sucks.

        The car is perfect otherwise, but I’d definitely want much better acceleration in the future.

        • @[email protected]
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          2 years ago

          Let me guess, automatic transmission? I have a manual Rio and I can push it in half the time in third gear. Not redlining anything, just less conservative shifting.

        • @[email protected]
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          42 years ago

          My last car was like that and then every time I borrowed my dad’s mercedes I’d constantly do stupid unecessary overtakes just because I could. It’s a moral hazard - I don’t think a faster accelerating car is safer because people drive those differently.

          • @[email protected]
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            72 years ago

            Of course you have to hold yourself back, but where I live there’s plenty of really nice stretches of road where you can overtake. But with my car while I’m accelerating some guy in an Audi or a BMW already decides to overtake from the back… overtaking with a better car feels much less stressful and safer.

      • @[email protected]
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        Rolling to 75 is more relevant in MA where onramps to highways are 50 feet long, but 0 to 60 is correlated.

      • DefederateLemmyMl
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        “Have you ever gone zero to sixty?” was my only response. Of all the facts and figures, 0-60 has you to be one of the least important when buying a car

        It is a relative performance indicator that is easy to measure and verify.

        Of course you rarely ever actually do 0-60, but it gives you an idea of how well the car accelerates relative to other cars. So in a way 0-60 is like a cinebench score for cars.

  • e_mc2
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    12 years ago

    Holy F… this image is from an accident couple of years ago near Baarn, The Netherlands. My brother in law was present at the scene as a fireman. Took them several hours to put out the battery fire. First time an accident ruptured the batteries and no one knew how to handle this type of fires yet.

  • 【J】【u】【s】【t】【Z】
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    Oh fuck off lending tree. Made up nonsense.

    Edit: Why am I getting downvoted? Oh, Tesla bad? Yeah, Tesla bad. LendingTree bad too. It’s spin and propaganda for the mortgage industry. They publish clickbait “research” using non scientific metrics to reach whatever conclusion they set out to reach, usually it’s just shitting on blue states. They frequently reach the opposite conclusions of credible researchers with no explanation as to why they created their own formulas when perfectly valid, standard formulas exist.

  • Sirico
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    372 years ago

    People are allowed cars they don’t have skills to use.

    • Phoenixz
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      202 years ago

      Quite frankly, driving skills standards in the entire American continent are a joke to begin with. I’ve seen current requirements in Canada (“Wut?” bad), united states (teehehehehe bad) and Mexico (the aristocrats joke bad) and I know going south it only gets worse.

      I got my driver’s license 25 years ago in the Netherlands and had to take classes for a number of months, learn an entire book of rules, had a one bour theory exam where typically only 60-70% would pass at the first try, then I had to take 30 hours of practical lessons with an instructor in a special car, and take a practical exam with an examiner where the rulr is pretty much “one mistake and you’re out”. I learned how to drive in rain, what to look out for, hoe to drive in show, how to manage losing control of your car, etc etc etc… I was instilled with andeaddaly respect for what s car is and what it can do in seconds to ruin lives for good.

      Comparing that ti anything they teach today in the Americas, it’s just a sad joke.

      • Tarquinn2049
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        12 years ago

        In Canada we still have to pass a practical test that covers that stuff with pretty strict requirements for passing. Just how you gain the knowledge and ability to pass that test is up to you. It’s pretty normal to take a driver’s Ed class if your friends or family don’t have time to trach you themselves. And the drivers Ed class is what you described as what is mandatory in the Netherlands. We just don’t put people through it automatically if they have already learned all that somewhere else.

        Having said that, there are some small towns that are known as places to go if you want an easier driving test, as they just don’t have enough things around to properly represent everything you should know while driving. But if it turns out you do actually suck at driving, you’ll lose your tiny amount of demerits on your beginners license pretty fast and then you are legally required to pass a driver’s Ed and defensive driving class before being able to reclaim your license. It’s not perfect, and I do think the one major thing we are missing is periodic re-testing. In Canada people are a little less resistant to “greater good” social policies, but there is still resistance. It’s tough to pass stuff that lowers or is perceived to lower freedoms, but they do still occasionally pass.

        And as I’m sure is the problem everywhere, people want all kinds of services, they just don’t want the government to have the money to pay for those services. And also they only want the services they personally currently benefit from, everything else can be cut until they personally need it, then it was a tragedy that no one stood up for it.

      • @[email protected]
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        My drivers ed class in new england pretty much focused only on educating teenagers about how brutally dangerous drunk driving is. It was frustrating at the time because I felt like I didn’t even learn how to drive but given how where I grew up as a teenager you had to go drink in sketch places which usually involved driving (what a dumb way to structure society ughh) because of the car hellscape I grew up in…. I honestly think those drivers ed teachers spent their time well.

        Driving a car isn’t so hard so long as you take the perspective that you have one rule, don’t hit other people and always remind yourself that you can’t assume other drivers will do anything they should on the road. Drunk driving was VERY hard not to do as a bored teenager trying to hang out with other bored teenagers. I could have died, my friends could have died. Idk, so I can’t be too upset at my drivers ed class in retrospect.

      • @[email protected]
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        12 years ago

        That doesn’t sound all that different from where I learned in Maryland. You had to go to a class for a few months that had both theoretical and practical portions. You had to do 40 hours of supervised driving outside of class with an adult. The 40 hours covered a range of situations. Then there was a driving test. Which I passed fine for the car but failed for a motorcycle because I started about a foot back from the stop sign on the course so I didn’t pull up and stop at it. Doh.

        • Phoenixz
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          22 years ago

          Adult being a friend or family member? I’ve heard about that, and it always struck me as strange, as people aren’t driving instructors, driving instructors are driving instructors.

          • @[email protected]
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            12 years ago

            I think it was somewhere around 6 to 10 hours with a certified instructor. The 40 with an adult was yeah a family member or friend. The quality definitely depended on the adult. My parents took it seriously and made sure we completed the lessons, but I had friends whose parents just signed the form without providing the additional instruction. It was 20 years ago so details are fuzzy.

          • @[email protected]
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            22 years ago

            In California, the first 20hr or so, it had to be a licensed instructor if you were under 18. An adult would just need to register for a learner’s permit and just need any licensed driver in the front passenger seat

    • @[email protected]
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      212 years ago

      Shouldn’t Teslas be easier to use with all that automation? If not, what’s the point of automation?

      OTOH, I’m all for raising the requirements for getting issued a driving licence, it’s just then we have to make a way for people to make do without driving.

      • @[email protected]
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        462 years ago

        No it makes it harder. I know that sounds crazy but it’s very true. Basically humans are very bad at paying attention to boring things. The automation gives the feeling that the computer has it and the human is not ready and aware when the computer doesn’t have it. Leading to lots of easily avoidable accidents.

        There has been some really good reporting on this over the last year or so. If you want to learn more.

        • @[email protected]
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          212 years ago

          This is something Japanese train companies figured out awhile ago for train engineers. Because driving locomotives can be really repetitive, they train engineers to do hand signals and call out actions out loud even when they’re alone in the car in order to help keep the brain active and focused.

      • Psychadelligoat
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        202 years ago

        To add another factor:

        People buy muscle cars and over accelerate because they can’t handle the power of those cars

        EVs accelerate much quicker than normal cars, Tesla’s more than normal EVs

        So if someone isn’t using the automation they’re still susceptible to the classic “overshot into or over something” situation

        • netburnr
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          72 years ago

          They also think because the car accelerates quickly it will also stop as quickly. Same as idiots that drive too fast in the snow.

  • @[email protected]
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    102 years ago

    I don’t know how many of these collisions are with pedestrians, but I have nearly stepped out in front of one twice just because they’re so quiet.

    • @[email protected]
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      182 years ago

      My 1994 Ford Probe was so quiet you couldn’t tell it was running most of the time even standing next to it, and there are plenty of ICE cars around today with even smaller and quieter engines. Most people learn to look both ways before crossing the street when they’re toddlers.

  • Andy
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    41 year ago

    While I love to jump on the anti-Elon bus, I have to query: the highest accident rates, or highest accident rates as a percentage of vehicles on the road? If you have 10 Tesla cars on the road, and there are 2 MGs on the road, and 2 Telsas and one MG crashes, then what? 20% of Tesla vs. 50% of MG, but also that could be framed as ‘double the number of Teslas crash compared to MGs’ or ‘Tesla has the highest accident rate of any auto brand’.

  • @[email protected]
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    1012 years ago

    I know its super pedantic, but the word “accident” really grinds my gears in this context.

    The proper terminology is “crash”… accident infers that there is no fault or misconduct.

    • N-E-N
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      112 years ago

      Wouldn’t an accident still involve “fault”

      • @[email protected]
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        22 years ago

        Colloquially, accidents are random events without intention or fault.

        That’s why there’s a push to use neutral terms like “crash” that don’t imply that the “accident” was just a random accidental mistake.

        And fault is often a bit of a misnomer. Many crashes are the result of bad design, but the courts would never say “this pedestrian fatality here is 40% the fault of whichever insane engineer put the library parking lot across a 4-lane road from the library but refused to put a crosswalk there or implement any sort of traffic calming because that would inconvenience drivers”.

      • @[email protected]
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        12 years ago

        While many accidents do involve fault, there are scenarios where an accident can occur without anyone being legally at fault (mechanical failure, natural disasters). It does excludes malicious intent though. in the specific context of commercial motor vehicle regulations in the US, the term “accident” is defined in the Electronic Code of Federal Regulations (e-CFR) under 49 CFR § 390.5

        • N-E-N
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          12 years ago

          Good point, so does Accidents exclude “accidental crashes with fault”

    • @[email protected]
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      The official UK Police term is Road Traffic Collision, or RTC, which does not imply fault or otherwise.

    • @[email protected]
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      Trucking companies have switched the terms in the same way, since “accident” lightens responsibility. Even a not-at-fault crash could have been preventable often times, which is what they try to emphasize.

      • @[email protected]
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        42 years ago

        One of the many ways trucking companies avoid liability by putting all responsibility for fuck-ups on the driver.

    • @[email protected]
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      172 years ago

      You can intentionally crash into someone which would not be an accident but if you crash into someone not on purpose, then it’s an accident.

      • @[email protected]
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        132 years ago

        Exactly, so the use of “crash” would generally be far better for these sorts of articles.

        “Accident” starts addressing intentions or expectations.

        We could just add easily refer to them as “vehicular violence” but then we’d end up distorting things in another direction.

      • @[email protected]
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        12 years ago

        It doesn’t have to be on purpose. Accident implies that something was just a freak occurrence beyond anyone’s control. You can’t fix accidents. You can fix crashes.

        If you’re driving negligently - drunk driving, not paying attention, etc then it’s not an accident.

        If it’s due to bad road design, then it’s not an accident.

  • @[email protected]
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    442 years ago

    How can you write an article like this with zero citations? They mention Lending Tree, who is a mortgage originator and that’s it.

    • @[email protected]
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      112 years ago

      They’re going off of Lending Tree’s internal insurance quote data. That link about the lending tree quote showed this, “Our latest analysis uses QuoteWizard by LendingTree insurance quote data…”

      Insurance rates are usually determined by risk associated with the car and driver and the value of the car. The lending tree analysis showed they were looking at several factors as well as accidents. They said also that Ram drivers have the “highest incident rates,” meaning they lumped together accidents, DUIs, speeding violations, and other traffic citations. This should come as no surprise to anyone who has seen a Ram.

    • Lev_Astov
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      12 years ago

      Even the Lending Tree “article” has a disclaimer at the top that they haven’t reviewed or approved any of it.