- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
An update:
- fmhy.ml is gone, due to the ongoing fiasco with mali government taking all their .ml domains back
- As such, lemmy.fmhy.ml is also gone, we are currently exploring ways to refederate (or somehow restart federation entirely) without breaking anything substantial
- We have backups, so don’t worry about data loss (you can view them on other instances anyway)
Currently, we have fmhy.net and are exploring options to somehow migrate, thank you for your patience.
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glad to see them not go down the vlemmy path
Yes, that’s reassuring. Also, nice to see their main website, I never actually noticed it existed
Damn, lemmy.zip, eh? If that instance is public, I don’t see that being a good thing.
Tons of businesses, people, etc, are all banning .zip and .mov TLDs for security purposes. I’ve personally banned all those domains from my network as well.
Bold move.
i don’t doubt there have been a lot of cases of those tlds used for scams but i haven’t been negatively effected by this instances domain name.
feel free to read the discussion about it here though
I can’t open that link because I block .zip domains lol
What’s the issue with those TLDs?
See https://youtu.be/GCVJsz7EODA and https://youtu.be/V82lHNsSPww
There are a few problems, but I believe the biggest issue is that .zip and .mov are valid and common file extensions, and it’s common for people to write something like ‘example dot zip’ or ‘attachment dot mov’ in emails, tweets, etc. Things like email clients have features where they automatically convert text that looks like a web address into clickable links. So now, retroactively, all those emails etc suddenly have a link, where they used to just have text, and the domains that are equivalent to those previously benign file names are being purchased by nefarious actors to exploit people unaware of the issue.
Yeah, you have a point. I may go block those TLDs tonight.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/GCVJsz7EODA
https://piped.video/V82lHNsSPww
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source, check me out at GitHub.
But there’s only an issue if the software you’re using auto linkifies the domain. They often don’t and won’t. This seems like a hypothetical problem that probably doesn’t exist for most major software. I certainly know no email software is gonna auto linkify this.
If you’re curious, you can see if whatever software you’re viewing this post in auto linkifies (neither are for me): hshshssu.zip iwuf8aowk.mov
(And if we’re manually linkifying, then you don’t need to use the new TLD. Eg, not-a-virus.zip.)
At 1:30 in that second video, he shows that YouTube already converts dot zip domains, even in old comments that predate the domain’s existence. At 3:19, he shows/mentions Twitter, Reddit, Facebook, and LinkedIn. I would consider those major platforms. And keep in mind, it only takes one person downloading one file to cause major damage - the LMG hack was due to someone downloading and trying to open a fake PDF that was sent via email: https://youtu.be/yGXaAWbzl5A.
So yes, not everything does or will auto convert the links, but I think you are underestimating the potential for issues here.
Actually really huge security threats. It’s a very good idea to block them. I especially did because my girlfriend works for the government and does some secret stuff that can’t really get out, and she deals with a ton of real .zip files. I think everyone regardless of who they are should make sure to block them.
What happened to vlemmy?
Nobody really knows for sure. It just sort of disappeared one day with no warning.
Is this going to be an unsolved mystery of the Internet? A spooky Fediverse legend?
If this was a planned takeover by the government, why was there no notification sent in time? Why is lemmy.ml not shut down in parallel?
There was a report in the beginning of June that things started looking weird. The registration of new .ml domains shut down in the beginning of the year.
In short, the Mali government just gave some random 3rd party a ten-year contract to hand out the domains for free, which the third party did without too much care or attention. It would have been up to the third party to notify domain owners, but as they’re not paying and probably don’t even have contracts themselves, there was little incentive to do so.
As far as I can understand, it relates to the US military scandal only indirectly: As the .ml domains are now returning to the government of Mali, it becomes a lot more problematic that the US keep directing their emails there, and the person in charge of managing the domain went public about the security threat.
What happens when it goes down, will all of the posts be gone?
First I join Vlemmy.net and then FMHY.ML… I am afraid whatever instance I join next will collapse 😭
I also joined vlemmy.net and it came down between fmhy.ml and sh.itjust.works. Guess I got lucky!
what happened with vlemmy?
The instance up and disappeared right after it’s admin said they were going g to defederate with another instance. There was no warning it was just gone the next day.
There is lots of speculation around it, but I think the admin got scared of the implication that their servers still held content from the other instance that was illegal in their country.
oh thanks.
Are you me? Same instances, same order…
…same fear.
.ee is owned by Estonia. Just pray Estonia wouldn’t do the same shenanigan and cause your instance to go down.
tbf Estonia is a stable EU country and Sunaurus (the admin of lemm.ee) is from Estonia so it’s not that strange
I’m sorry but for the good of all instances I’m afraid you will need to become a lurker 😔
Hello! I’m new to Lemmy, could someone break this down like I’m 5 and explain what it means for the people who were already on there?
It means anybody who will want to go to site lemmy.fmhy.ml will not load site and would think its down, maybe some will find out on google about it, some are already on multiple instances…
Also all links to lemmy.fmhy.ml are dead/gone now.
Btw the domain *.ml was free as i read, at least they could get some 1-5 USD domain name extension.
Only instances with a “.ml” at the end of the name may or may not be affected. Lemmy is a collection of instances so the loss of a few will not cripple the whole thing. Content over the whole is not greatly affected.
If your home log-in instance is one that’s affected, you’ll have to find a new one. You’ll know right away because the instance will be unreachable. Not a big deal, last time I looked there was over 1200 instances to chose from.
Another consideration is any communities living on an affected instance may have issues. All communities are common to Lemmy, but each originates from a particular instance. We’ve not yet seen a major instance go down so I don’t know how Lemmy deals with communities getting orphaned like that.
Lemmy has had such a crazy month and a half. Insane growth, XSS injections, DDOS attacks, admin takeover, domain name seizures. What a wild ride
Welcome to the real world
My boy Lemmy is growing up!
Facts. And such drama does make Lemmy more appealing in a way
and still better than using official Reddit app (and still better than Reddit overall) lol
That’s how every service starts. Let’s keep going
And we’re still here, going strong. Long live the Fediverse.
Posting here for visibility as I guess most people on Lemmy are not on Firefish/Mastodon
This is precisely why my experiments with servers and internet technology stop whenever a dns is mentioned.
If i need to pay a subscription or otherwise rely on a centralized entity its not independent hosting and my interest in it disappears instantly.
I’m kind of curious about how you think the internet works.
It works very different from how i would want it to work for sure. I specified internet technology for a reason though. The creative limit i put on myself is that all systems should remain fully independent with the exception of hardware requirements. Everything remains local for now.
That’s a pretty specific requirement but luckily you can host your own VPN and access it on your device and then access the service you’re hosting via a local address. So if you do run into this again know that there is a way to circumvent the need to rely on *checks notes* DNS.
Eh, you can self host your name system though. OpenNIC does exactly that. The problem is convincing other people to use your resolver instead of using ICANN.
Or don’t rely on a country code tld thats being used for vanity purposes.
you rely on centralised entities every day to use the internet… ICANN, IANA, and a few more right at the top, government agencies to manage IP ranges etc, whoever owns your IP block, whoever provides your network… TBH you rely on cloudflare even if you never pay them because they CDN half the damn internet. you reply on google and amazon simply because again they host services you use
don’t kid yourself, the internet works because of centralised bodies; not despite them! DNS is the least of your concern; at least those names are commoditised and have enough scrutiny (unless you choose a TLD that doesn’t have favourable TOS) BY those centralised authorities that they’re pretty untouchable short of legal challenges
I know, i specified “internet technology” for this reason.
I run a few websites and servers all of them are local only. Society can go to hell, my stuff isn’t relying on it.
I also use the internet of course but thats outside of my creative ventures.
All of my posts on other instances are gone now :/
WIll this also affect all other .ml domains? Or is this some anti-piracy thing? (I don’t know fmhy, but from the name I guess it’s about piracy.)
It seems to be Mali just wanting their domains back, in which case it’s uncertain times for all .ml domains.
Shall I make an account in another instance?
Nope. Domains don’t store data. They can change domain and keep all the data.
Unfortunately, no.
Currently, activitypub identity is tied to domain name. While mastodon support migration as long as the old domain is still up during the migration process, AFAIK Lemmy doesn’t even have a process to migrate an instance to a new domain yet.
So basically, if you switch your instance domain, you’ll mess up all your federation network, unless Lemmy devs implement a solution soon.
Calckey.social will be transferring all data to new firefish.social, first in the Fediverse.
Never hurts. Could be a good opportunity to look around the threadiverse and see if you find anything interesting.
However, as it only affects the domain, I expect the Lemmy developers will manage to migrate user data to the new domain should lemmy.ml go down. So your account won’t just disappear, but it might go down for a while. It might also affect communities hosted on .ml domains, as followers from other instances will not have the correct path any more.
Yeah, they are actively working on functionality to migrate user accounts and other data between instances, so that they can use that functionality to migrate everything on an instance to another instance.
Since migrating data affects all the replicated data on other instances as well, I guess when they migrate lemmy.ml somewhere else, all of Lemmy will be down for a day or two, being just overloaded with all the migration stuff.
Thanks for the info.
rip lemmy.ml
Good thing join-lemmy is safely tucked away in a .org domain.
This is extremely bad timing for Lemmy (if it ends up happening), but also a good example of how federation makes the entire social media landscape more robust. Had this happened to a centralized service it would be devastating.
Not really. Most centralized services are accessible via multiple domains, e.g. for different countries. This would just disable one of them, but users could still use another to log into their accounts. For the Fediverse it “disables” an entire instance, cuts it off from federation and locks out users.
Lets not put a positive spin on a situation that exposes a weakness of the current system. The federation protocol needs to be able to handle these things gracefully, like propagating domain changes and migrating accounts between instances!
I’m now wondering what happens if the Mali government (or someone else) begins using those domains with their own lemmy instance, potentially with malicious content.
Would the instances they’ve federated with begin ingesting and serving that content automatically? Or would that be blocked due to key mismatch?
Afaik it is all connected to the domain name, so they could definitely start to impersonate any .ml instance. Other instances could detect that the signing key for federation messages changed, but that’s about it. Their admins would probably have to block/defederate them manually.
I think they need the private key for the https certificate to do that
If it was always going to happen, now isn’t really a bad time. Sure, a month ago would have been better, but people still haven’t been here that long. If I wind up needing to migrate, and lose my current account, oh well. No big loss. I imagine others feel similar.
I was frustrated with the outage yesterday and created a new account on a different instance so I could still browse. Couple hours later I had all my subscriptions filled out and the experience is almost identical to my first account.
It’s just the domain, though. That’s not a big deal to change.
Think about all the links to lemmy.ml
Federation connections are by domain name, so … it is a big deal
Right. This will basically make nearly every /c live in .world as all of the .ml /c’s go defunct. That, or Beehaw, which is walled off from everyone else.
(Side note… my work’s firewalls block everything *.ml – and that’s the only thing that saved me from creating my account there)
From that point of view, yes. That’d mess things up, you’re right. But from my understanding, they won’t lose any data, accounts will remain, as well as subscriptions that lemmy.ml users have. Or am I wrong?
The problem is, if they don’t have access to their original
.mldomain, their accounts are still tied to it. That means if they try to interact, such as subscribing to a community, when the data for that action tries to be sent back (such as updates) it’ll go to the.mldomain, which they wouldn’t receive.Lemmy doesn’t have a built in way to just change the domain name, or really any of the ActivityPub services AFAIK. You’d have to either really do some hacky stuff to get around it (which could result in unknown issues down the line) or reset everything.
Oh, it’s more complex than I expected. Thanks for explaining. I was wrong.
Most of the hacky ways around it involve retaining ownership of the old domain and leaving it up indefinitely as a pointer to the new location. If your domain is taken from you though there is not much you can do.
Seriously dumb to have used this TLD considering there are a ton of choices these days.
Currently, activitypub identity is tied to domain name. Mastodon support migration as long as the old domain is still up during the migration process, but AFAIK Lemmy doesn’t even have a process to migrate an instance to a new domain yet.
Someone should tell Lemmy devs and send them a crate of coffee because it’ll be a race to implement domain migration before all .ml domains got shut down.
The instance is known by its domain name in the federation network. If that domain name changes, it’s like starting a new instance from scratch.
Sounds like a complicated project to migrate communities and posts and users to a new instance without breaking something.
lemmy.ml is still up as of right now. Possibly they contracted a subscription to the domain name to keep it up. They had to do something to retain it otherwise the site would be unreachable. If lemmy.ml does have to change names it will be a hassle since I’ve got a good number of community subscriptions there.
This wouldn’t happen to an instance with a regularly subscribed domain name. Problem is the .ml domains were free and the associated country decided to claim them back. The risk of using a free top level domain is something that should have been considered. I don’t think it’s worth the risk versus the cost savings considering how difficult it is to migrate a Lemmy instance.
I understand it as the Mali government is taking back all the domains after a subletting contract ran out. A lot of sensitive emails that should go to .mil (US military) has been typo-sent to .ml-addresses instead. Here’s some more reading.
(I am very tired here and might have misunderstood everything, please correct me if I am wrong)
Perhaps the military should have a system in place to not allow emails to be sent outside of very specific TLDs if it’s that sensitive? And perhaps have an automated contact book, instead of relying on someone typing out the to: address manually to be able to make that mistake in the first place?
Seems like some very basic security measures for something so serious.
Yeah that’s super easy to integrate. I used to work in cyber security for a bank and even I was only allowed to send to internal domains initially. I had to file for exceptions for contractors and vendors and stuff.
Internally they do block that but the problem are people outside the network sending something to a .mil address and mistyping.
For most situations, there is a global address list that members can use. There are instances where emails need to be sent outside of the .mil domain though, such as to other government agencies that use a .gov, or to contractors on commercial domains, as well as to partner nations that will be on their own countries’ domains.
This says that they block outgoing mail to .ml domains from its network.
https://domainincite.com/28897-freenom-is-losing-another-cctld-after-collecting-military-emails
Edit: wrong link
I’m happy with the app because I would get suspicious every time the link changes again… pffff
So why is lemmy.ml still working?
At least I see posts from their instance, like this one https://midwest.social/post/1290001
They may not have taken the lemmy.ml domain back yet, but because the different instances are federated, you’ll still be able to see contents from an instance that’s gone.
lemmy.fmhy.ml is pirate friendly, lemmy.ml is not. Maybe the Mali government suddenly decided they don’t like piracy because… reasons? Maybe the Somalian pirates pissed them off???
I doubt they care about such things.
What about lemmy.ml? Can govt just take their domain?
I think in theory yes, since the .ml tld is now managed by the Mali government instead of some guy that had an agreement with them.
Man this is all so interesting to see so many unique situations testing the Fediverse to see how it holds up.
let’s hope they’re interesting because it’s novel and the problems were there with other solutions just solved ages ago rather than the alternative: “so many unique situations” because there are a litany of “oops didn’t think of that” moments that will continue to crop up
IMO the real takeaway is that a big instance disappeared overnight and yet here we all are on the fediverse talking about it.
They are probably paying for the domain
have fmhy not paying for theirs?
I’d like to think FMHY was true to their name and didn’t pay for the domain.
No idea… Sorry
No, that is the crux of the matter. They used freedom, which offered .ml for free.
