Mercedes-Benz debuts turquoise exterior lights to indicate the car is self-driving | A visual indicator for other drivers::undefined
I have a prototype self driving system in my car. It drives logically and consistently, but it doesn’t behave like a human.
This would be a really helpful feature as self driving becomes more common.
And I live in California. Of course we’re going to help rich people avoid all consequences of their actions. Because paying attention to where your 1 ton metal missile is going is too much to ask. But only if you can afford the turquoise lights.
I don’t think I understand how adding safety indicators to elevate awareness of self driving vehicles helps rich people avoid all consequence.
As a poor person, I’d like to know if a car I’m driving by is self driving.
Mercedes is a luxury brand. And as the article states, in California and Nevada drivers will get a legal pass on distracted driving if the system and lights are on.
So the drivers of these luxury cars are no longer responsible for what the car does.
The article says they are allowed to test the new indicators in those States, not that they get a legal pass…
In California, the permit will let Mercedes-Benz trial turquoise lights on test vehicles for two years. In Nevada, the automaker can start adding the feature to 2026 year production vehicles
Do you think it’s a better scenario for less awareness of self driving cars? If self driving is part of the future, this seems like a reasonable step imo.
Go read the article again then. There’s a whole section about distracted driving.
Ive read those 7 paragraphs a couple times now, and I don’t see anything about getting a legal pass. Maybe you could quote it for me?
I have missed things due to ads covering things up on mobile on the past.
As a Level 3 system, the driver is permitted to take their hands off the wheel, their feet off the pedals, and divert their attention away from the road. Most other driving systems require you to keep your hands on the wheel and pay attention. With Drive Pilot engaged, users are free to browse the Internet or watch videos on the vehicle’s central display.
To be fair I’ve had that happen with ads too and it’s infuriating.
Oh my bad. I somehow thought you were implying the light was going to give them the pass… You are talking about self driving cars in general though.
That’s been a thing though, would you like that progress to stop? I guess /fuckcars is a real popular movement online so we can have different opinions on that.
That isn’t at all what you were saying buddy
The article states no such thing.
As a Level 3 system, the driver is permitted to take their hands off the wheel, their feet off the pedals, and divert their attention away from the road. Most other driving systems require you to keep your hands on the wheel and pay attention. With Drive Pilot engaged, users are free to browse the Internet or watch videos on the vehicle’s central display.
Come on dude.
That describes how the system works. Does not describe liability implications. Which I am really interested in learning about, so if you know of some other source that goes into detail around liability after a crash while this system is engaged, please share it.
Watch this turn into a status thing that starts trending.
As someone living in a country which haven’t seen any self-driving cars I’d just be a lot more cautious/careful if I’d ever get close to anything with those lights.
AI with all those sensors prob drives better than many city drivers I interact daily changing lanes and doing parallel parking.
And don’t forget the human panic response. One of my primary reasons to only allow ai driving. People that kick on the gas in an emergency situation should not be allowed to drive ever, unless hitting the gas was the right choice of course. But seeing people not stop but hit the gas in a panic is the worst thing to see happening.
Years ago (maybe 2009ish) my mother got rear ended 4-5 times by the same person at a red light. They hit her, and kept accidentally hitting the gas instead of the brake over and over. It probably happens more often than we think… but there will always be people lying to themselves and others that they are good drivers.
California has had several high profile problems with self driving cars. This is going to be a disaster, physically and politically. This is literally just rich people buying a legal defense for hitting pedestrians. There’s going to be outrage the first time it happens and it turns out the driver wasn’t even looking at the road, or was drunk.
Ofc there are gonna be issues but I kinda asume drunk driver and person who lack observation has lower chance of hitting someone with car that has any kind of assistance. There are prob more times driving assistance helped than caused problem.
Sure, but that shouldn’t absolve them of responsibility. They should still be required to pay attention and apply the brakes or take control if required. These systems do not have a 100 percent safety record. So to say we don’t need the human as a check anymore is bonkers.
“I have the turquoise checkmark light on my car, and you don’t.”
Just seeing a turn signal on a Mercedes or BMW is enough for me to assume the driver isn’t the one in control.
That or it not being double parked.
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Woooooosh
Blue bubbles?
Seems like a bad idea - you know someone is going to figure out how to take advantage of that.
- Scofflaw - ai has no pride or ego so I can cut them off at will and they will always back down
- scammer - manufacturer has deep pockets - where’s my neck brace?
I’m sorry, but I can’t actually imagine that happening where I live.
Do people who cut others off care who’s driving?He’s referring to a group of people they intentionally cut others off and slam on the brakes to induce an accident that they can sue over. And it happens a lot. Dash cams are saviors.
I’m sure some people take age, gender, and/or race into consideration when deciding who they can cut off
You might be giving them too much credit for thinking about what they’re doing.
Or you might be underestimating the lengths racists would go to just to inconvenience someone who looks like a foreigner
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Scofflaw - Why does the person in the self-driving car care? They’re just chilling. Zooming ahead of other cars doesn’t get you more than a few minutes ahead. If that’s really important to you, you should have left your house a few minutes earlier.
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Scammer - These cars are covered in cameras and radars. These are the opposite of the cars you want to jump in front of (except Tesla, which sucks). They’ll probably just film you launching yourself from the curb and stop before they hit you. I guess you can get on America’s Funniest Home Videos?
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I think it would be also cool to have an indicator if the car in front of you has cruise control on
That would be great for the driver himself. The amount of times I’ve had to play leap frogs with someone only to be given a dirty look when hes the one that constantly slows down and accelerates.
Wow I’ve been thinking about that for a while now. We should be able to tell when someone is driving or an Ai is.
Do the same thing, but hook it up to a camera that detects if your eyes are on the road lol.
Most FSD cars have that. People just ignore the warnings and popups.
The car should pull over then. Lol
Should, but when has that ever stopped businesses from doing what is cheap/easy?
My aftermarket Openpilot setup does this with a camera pointed at the driver. I’m good about paying attention but apparently if it alerts too many times that you’re distracted it will disable itself until you restart the car.
The reason for these lights is that Mercedes has Level 3 autonomy, so the car can self drive without the driver taking attention - for example here in Germany it is illegal (and there are photo traps) to use your phone on while driving. The lights are a solution to the exemption that you are allowed to use your phone while your car is on Level 3 autonomy.
On level 3 you need to be able to take over again within 30 seconds after the car actively asks you to do so.
Yeah that last bit. That’s unacceptable for at least another decade. Drivers should be responsible for their vehicles at all times.
The level 3 autonomy is under extremely limited circumstances, which are basically on the bighway under 40 mph. These are basically the safest possible conditions to have level 3, and it is the right place to start.
I’m not against them starting it. I’m against them telling the drivers they can take their hands off the wheel, their feet off the pedal, and watch media on the center console. We aren’t there yet.
Level 3 autonomy is exactly that. Mercedes allows you to do other things than driving in specific situations like specific (!) highways etc.
BMW also has Level 3 on low speeds on specific highways.
This is not autonomy in all situations but only during the day, no rain etc.
For limited situations the car fully takes over and in case of an accident it is legally Mercedes’ or BMW’s responsibility not the driver.
That specific situation is indicated by the lights.
It will not drive autonomously in a city or so or where pedestrians are.
30 seconds is a LOT of time.
That’s actually a fantastic idea
tells me what cars i need to be extra careful around.
yes i know people are horrible at driving, but at least the average person is predictable.
Rule #1: constant foresight and respect to other drivers
Rule #2: Expect mistakes, illegal u-turns, and people taking right of way
Aye, credit where it’s due; this is a great way to differentiate between human and machine controlled devices. It’s detectable by both, and can help in cases where people blame the autodrive, or car companies claim human error.
The point of the lights obviously being to push the responsibility onto the drivers around the self-driven car, rather than the manufacturer who actually made the faulty autopilot.
I for one would like to know when another car isn’t being driven by a human.
I’ll just stick some turquoise lights on my car
If your car is obviously old and you just bought some shitty magnetic tow lights and simply swapped the color it would be extra funny.
Eventually the reverse will be equally important. So this will be a good idea for decades at least.
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because the’re mostly tested under extremely safe conditions, and current self driving regularly asks you to take back over (you also have to still pay attention and have your hands on the wheel) which makes it level 2. by definition, the human is driving.
This could be useful as a communication medium where the car transmits data through the light to the neighbours.
If only there was some kind of universal communication technology that didn’t require line of sight, worked over distances out to say 100m and was reasonably inexpensive to implement…then we wouldn’t need to communicate using the modern equivalent of semaphore.
But what about the IOT? The 5G! Connect all the things!
dang, maybe something related with electricity and this crazy magnets we have?
Magnets? How do they work?
why would i need to know another car is self driving though?
So you don’t call the cops when you overtake them and see then eating a bowl of cereal, jerking it, while watching Flinstones.
Now that’s multitasking!
Same reason at this point as “Student Driver” bumper stickers - so you know it’s inexperienced and may behave weirdly, so maybe keep a bit more distance than usual or something.
That’s what I thought. I can only imagine idiots will see it and try fuck with it. Anyone else be like, “Okay… So just keep doing what I’m currently doing.”
It’s marketing, if anything.
My theory on Audi bringing out animated indicators was that they were quickly getting a damaging reputation of Audi drivers not using indicators; a reputation their competitor BMW is negatively married to. To prevent this, they appealed to making them unique and special, no one else had them, so the drivers would want to use them. Thus actively mitigating brand damage on BMW levels.
I would love to have an indicator for adaptive cruise control because the way it only reacts to the car right in front of you rather aggressively means it causes shockwave traffic jams unless the human driver behind you keeps enough distance.
The ACC in my car maintains a good bit of distance to the car ahead and doesn’t respond suddenly to things coming closer than that distance. I’ve rarely if ever seen it brake inappropriately.
Humans are already experts at causing shockwave traffic jams, so I wouldn’t count on them to reduce them.
I can only imagine assholes messing with the car MORE because the lights are on.
Apparently the car can only drive slowly automatically when you are stuck in traffic. So it shouldn’t be a huge problem
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Even if this would be a good idea, you can’t just put some non regulated lights on a car. This would need a law change in Germany to be approved and would probably take years of burocrazy until she get beards figured out the exact hue these lights need to emit. But I guess Mercedes already wrote that law for our government to copy. How convenient.
Either way, it’s a useful starting point for the conversation to be had I guess.
Better for some proactivity then nobody ever progressing anything, right?
No law change needed, the StZVO is a mere decree. Also EU law takes precedence Mercedes probably isn’t even going to bother getting it through German bureaucracy but will go straight to Brussels.
This would not be illegal in the US, except some states forbid blue lights because they’re reserved for law enforcement. I haven’t seen any state regulation that rigorously defines “blue” like the NHTSA references to CIE 1931.
They would also have to be distinct enough to not cause confusion with the existing lights.
Since it’s Mercedes-Benz doing it, they’ll just write the new law themselves and tell the German minister of traffic to push it through.
I dont understand, does benz have leverage in the german government?
It’s a bit of a meme because german politics is so heavily lobbied by our car industry.
Yes, the German economy still heavily relies on the car industry.
And it’s not just leverage, they literally employ “consultants” (lobbyists) who draft bills which are then introduced into the legislative process and voted on by members of parlament who have neither the time nor the technical know-how to understand them. German car makers effectively write their own regulations.
But I guess Mercedes already wrote that law for our government to copy. How convenient.
How dare a company try to work with governments to create a new safety feature!
How is this a safety feature though? Are they saying we have to be extra careful around self-driving cars? If so then the car shouldn’t be considered to be self-driving. If not, then what’s the use?
Different regulations apply for the driver when the car is autonomous vs controlled by a driver.
These lights do not indicate driving assists like Tesla’s autopilot but full level 3 and above autonomy. In level 3 for example, Mercedes is responsible for any damages due to accidents - not the driver.
Also in level 3 the driver may legally use their phone, which is illegal for a car driver normally and give them a ticket.
So there IS a legal requirement to find out about the autonomy level of a car from outside.
I see a lot of people in this thread saying a car that needs any kind of indication of self-driving isn’t safe enough to be on the road, but that implies a single answer to questions like “is it safe enough?” In reality, different people will answer that question differently and their answer will change over time. I see it as a good thing to try to accommodate people who view self-driving cars as unsafe even when they are street-legal. So it’s not really a safety feature from all perspectives, but it is from the perspective of people who want to be extra cautious around those cars.
Personally I see an argument for self-driving cars that aren’t as safe as a average human driver. It’s basically the same reason you sometimes see cars with warning signs about student drivers: we wouldn’t consider student drivers safe enough to drive except that it’s a necessary part of producing safe drivers. Self-driving cars are the same, except that instead of individual drivers, its self-driving technology that we expect to improve and eventually become safer than human drivers.
Another way to to look at it is that there are a lot of drivers who are below-average in their driving safety for a variety of reasons, but we still consider them safe enough to drive. Think of people who are tired, emotional, distracted, ill, etc. It would be nice to have the same warning lights for those drivers, but since that’s not practical, having them only for self-driving cars is better than nothing.
Ever see neons?
Not on German roads certainly not.
I’ve heard a lot about how Germans are strict with their driving laws, but I never expected them to be straight boring for no good reason.
It’s about traffic safety. Also rest assured German tuners have plenty of fun overtaking stock Porsches with their tuned Golfs on the Autobahn.
Yeah I suppose neon lights is marginally less safe than chugging my drink too fast.
They are illegal in most European countires
Gosh how could the world function without legislature having long sessions to decide which color some safety lights should emit.
So should companies not try to innovate or invent things until the German government tells them it’s ok?
The point is that innovation should always come with regulations. This is not the wild west over here. We like to be alive and companies usually don’t care about that but only care about profits. So it’s a good idea that they can’t just do whatever they want. If they invent something actually new I’m quite happy that a third party will have a look at it before it’s mounted to a vehicle that kills me. I know that in the us this is handled the other way around but I guess the statistics for car accidents agrees with me.
If Mercedes only cared about profits why would they be putting this light on their cars?
