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Solution is stop using delivery services.
They do get the tips.
How much of it?
As someone who delivered DoorDash this past year, I can confirm that drivers get 100% of the top. I had a bunch of customers ask me to verify and it was always accurate. I’ve also confirmed with a number of delivery drivers that brought me food.
Idk about door dash, but my son was delivering through Uber and he got all the tips for his deliveries.
It’s right the in there screenshot
My take is that it’s 100% not the full truth.
The facts don’t matter, only the narrative. Good for you being open to challenging your own beliefs.
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What I do:
$0 tip
In the special instructions: “Ring doorbell for cash tip. Do not just leave at door”.
Traffic in my area is awful so I always tip $20 no matter the order. Sometimes that comes to almost an 80% tip but a) I know it goes to the driver, b) I don’t have to drive in that shitshow, and c) I reward a driver for actually reading the special instructions.
Dashers can see what you tip on the app on average and nobody will pick up your order unless it’s extremely convenient for them. They don’t see the instructions until they pick up the order.
Yep. It is another reason I overtip in cash. If this person is desperate enough to grab a “no tip” order, they probably need the $20 tip on a $36 order more than most.
Is it even convenient at that point? I don’t know if I’d have an extra twenty I can keep tossing out there every time I’m trying to grab a bite.
Did you weigh that $20 against all of the effort that you would need to go get your own damn food? You are paying for convenience! If you want a good deal don’t pay someone else to do your work for you.
No way is driving 5 minutes to pick up food in town worth an hour’s wage to me. And on top of saving me fees and tip money for myself I will get my food faster hotter and fresher and it also won’t smell of cigarettes. I do not order delivery at this point. I only pick up or make food at home. Delivery is a waste of money
Then don’t? They’re not saying everyone needs to shell out $20 for every order…
If someone tips a set amount regularly they can easily plan ahead.
How convenient should it be?
How much would you pay a friend you see every couple months that is friends with your other friends to go out and buy fast food for you while you sit at home playing videogames instead?
What amount of money would make that feel ok to you?
Assuming it would take more than 2 dollars to feel ok with that, why is it ok to spend less on a stranger doing it? And how much less is ok?
The “that’s somebody’s job, they signed up for that” mentality that prevents so many people from doing what little they can to make that job suck just a little bit less at often times nearly no cost to themselves, like not clearing their trays/garbage at a fast food place, or leaving all their stuff at their seats in a movie theater… it’s such a pervasive mentality, “I don’t -have- to do it, so why should I?”.
Do you want to live in a world where people are nice to you, well too bad, cuz they don’t -have- to be. As long as that mentality persists, we can’t have that world. Doing things you don’t -have- to do to make someone else’s life just a little easier, is the foundation of basic kindness.
Maybe I’m wrong. I think you’re misunderstanding the person you’re replying to, and I didn’t not get from them did they find it inconvenient to pay a stranger more money because it’s a stranger, just saying that they find it to be inconvenient to spend an extra $20 on top of the meal anytime they want delivery and it would probably be better off to go pick it up themselves or make food at home which is what I do. Haven’t ordered delivery in months because it’s such a waste of money.
That person also never said anything about how “that’s somebody’s job and they signed up for it” and that was you that brought that into this mix. I don’t know why you’re getting so offended or pissed off about that comment. They’re just saying that paying an extra $20 for delivery is inconvenient and costly.
If you are a driver and you make money from doordash or Uber, you might want to consider getting into a different line of work because those companies are just scamming the hell out of you and there’s no need to be so defensive of them.
Hmm, maybe I have to change some wording. That is not at all the tone I was going for, I’m not angry or anything like that. And certainly not trying to direct anything at one specific person, or defend any terrible companies doing the things I specifically am saying shouldn’t feel comfortable. I’ll see what I can do to the post to clear things up some.
But I do agree that if you wouldn’t make a friend do something, you shouldn’t feel ok making a stranger do it, do it yourself or don’t do it.
The post is not some line for line rebuttal, it’s more of a loose essay based off a hypothetical posit.
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Don’t you have to accept the order before you can read the special instructions?
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It’s worth noting that drivers don’t see the note until after they accept the order. There’s a good chance your food takes longer to be picked up because of your $0 tip.
Better to put the tip in the app, give cash, and then adjust the tip back to $0 after the delivery is made. Just communicate that with the driver to avoid confusion.
Oh, that’s a good way to get them to ring the bell. I tried making them ring the bell other ways, but they never do. Uber Eats has a feature where they need to get a code from you to prove they handed you the food. I had several drivers leave the food at the door and then text me, asking me for the code. Fuck off
People on all these astro-turfed anti-tipping posts always have the same AI generated talking points. Rarely ever do these people actually talk about STOPPING using the apps and STOPPING going to restaurants. Stop making “tip culture” the fault of the worker. It is 100% on the business owner for not paying their staff appropriately for the work performed. Not tipping rewards the business and punishes the worker.
Stop fucking using these extortion apps. Drive your lazy ass to the shit food station yourself.
Why? Who’s holding a gun to the head of these drivers and forcing them to work for this gig? The onus isn’t on the customers, it’s on the drivers.
My guess is either their landlord, their hospital, their bank, their supermarket, or their college. Not an actual gun, just metaphorical. A lot of drivers are just desperate to make ends meet however they can. There’s a lot of shit to be said about the gig economy, but it does provide flexible schedules, and while some people just want to monetize as much of their time as possible, some people actually need to.
“I’m going to the shit food station, you want anything?”
I’ve used these apps – when I was quarantining because I had Covid, wasn’t in a state to drive, and needed food.
I don’t use them anymore, but these types of apps can fill a “need”.
There are times these apps make sense. I crashed my motorcycle doing an ubereats delivery and broke my collarbone, and then used the service myself a bunch of times while healing. Ironic, but that’s life.
Side note for the people wondering what happens when you don’t tip upfront (on UE at least): Prospective drivers see an offer of $4-6 for a job that will take them 45 minutes and say “fuck that” while they slam the ‘no’ button. This will go on for a while until the system is able to find another order on the way to combine it with, or someone accepts it anyway.
Why do you just assume everyone can drive? Plenty of people either don’t have a license or don’t have a car.
It’s definitely true that ignorant people ignore the fact that people with disabilities exist.
My friend would order food from a different shop that had delivery instead of walking across the fucking street to the place that quite literally was across the street. I could see it from my bedroom window.
Some people will do anything to avoid having to go out and while i’m very similar, I think like 3-4 blocks is my limit as far as walking. 5 mins for driving, any more and I’m just ordering something lol
Tbh I’ll order pizza from the good shop 10min away before I order from the shithole 2min away. The difference? “Good food.”
I always pick up, but still this could be understandable.
This is assuming you live in a city and not a suburb
Unless you’re in europe where suburbs have food places in walking distance
Goddamn I miss that. Restaurants and bodegas within walking distance of your apartment.
Too bad they’re all pizzerias.
The tip does go to the driver
They really need to stop calling it a tip. It’s a bid for service.
Drivers shouldn’t be allowed to see the tip amount prior to delivery completion. That, or tipping shouldn’t be allowed until after completion. I hate this more recent model of tipping before receiving service. Because as you said, it’s a bid for service, not an acknowledgement of good service.
Do you get your tip back too if the driver steals your food? Here we have Rappi that also asks for tip before the delivery so I never gave it out.
I did once because the driver completely ignored my delivery instructions and I called to cancel the tip. They refunded it immediately.
Our building has a problem with theft, which I noted in my instructions, and they left the order in the lobby despite my clear warning to the contrary.
Yes you do.
I’ve tipped a ton and gotten very cold food numerous times. I absolutely agree, and really hate this model.
Drivers can’t see the tip, but they are given an estimated payout (of the number presented is different from the estimate, it’ll always pay higher than the estimate) for each order.
If this wasn’t the case, there wouldn’t be any drivers. Drivers are contractors and DoorDash bids orders out until someone accepts it. No contractor in their right mind will accept a job not knowing how much it’ll pay.
If tipping weren’t allowed until after delivery, most people wouldn’t tip. You have the option to raise or lower your tip already, but have you ever gone in there and changed your tip after you received your order? Most people don’t. In the 6 or so months I was delivering, I only had one tip adjusted.
No fuck you. I’m not gonna sit around taking all the shitty orders that just ruin my car and waste my time for $3 just because you think I should have a gambling problem for your benefit.
Also they already tried that. Everyone quit except the dependent people who just got ruined.
Then you’re part of the problem, I guess.
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You aren’t entitled to gratuity, despite seeming like a very entitled person. You present yourself like a charity case.
I’ve got plenty of customers who pay my price. It’s not a matter of entitlement. You want a bootstrapped market. I take the free market.
In your other comments you complain about being in debt, with a broken car, because of the job. Sounds like you’ve got it figured out and are definitely on top in the situation, I’ll leave you to it.
Flip it around - why would you work a job, any job, where you don’t know your pay until after the work is done?
“Tipping” is rich-people speak for shifting the expense (and blame) to the customer.
They already know the pay. If the pay isn’t enough without the tip, then maybe they should consider getting a different job.
If you think tipping, a current necessity to ensure proper pay, is not something you should be doing why don’t you stop using food services which expect tipping?
They won’t stop underpaying because you don’t tip they’ll just blame the worker. The one who can’t quit, because there’s not alot of work around, and they need food for survival
Personally I tip 20% or more at most Restaurants. I draw the line at tipping before service as well. They aren’t even pretending anymore that it’s about service.
That said, I don’t use any Gig economy service; I don’t believe in their business models at all, and part of what you are saying is why. Workers shouldn’t be taking on the burden, companies should.
I do tip at some pre-service places that I’m a regular at, but I’ve run into some pretty ridiculous stores asking for tips where nothing warrants it. I try to be fair, but it is getting ridiculous.
One of the most ridiculous tipping related thing happened a couple of weeks ago. I was ordering some pantry items from an online store that shipped to me (shipping fee was separate, based on how much is purchased). They had a vinegar that I couldn’t find locally or online elsewhere, and since they are a small family business, I decided to order a few other things to support them even though all their prices were a bit higher than other places. When checking out, they asked for a 20-25% tip to help support their small family business. That just made me mad. Never going to shop from them again.
Yes that’s completely ridiculous. You’re helping their small business by shopping there in the first place.
A tip before service is not a tip. It’s coercion. Maybe we should consider adding regulation to this entire industry to ensure fair pay.
I’m all for ending tipping culture. And a tip before service may not be a tip, but as long as this is how it’s set up, it’s the current way we must do things.
Just like if you want someone to do some handy work for you, you can go on Craigslist and say “need someone to do ‘x’. Will pay $150” and workers who search on there for jobs will decide whether or not it’s worth it for them to do the job. This job just so happens to be giving you food or a ride.
Right, and if a company can’t pay their workers enough, then workers are not obligated to work there. It is not my responsibility to ensure your workers are paid fairly, regardless of how things are currently set up.
Ok, call your extra payment whatever name you want, and get the ball rolling on legislating new regulations to ensure fair pay. They deserve to get paid more, and when/if those regulations go through the drivers will have a better future.
That didn’t answer the question, though. We both agree that drivers deserve to get paid more, so why not open up your wallet and start paying them more now? Why wait months or years for legislation to go through to force you to pay more, when the power to make sure your driver is paid well is sitting in the palm of your hand today? Your individual act of tipping or not tipping will do nothing to address the system at large, but it will do everything to ensure your driver driver gets paid fairly for the labor they perform while they serve you.
Why is it my responsibility to ensure they’re paid fairly by me directly? It’s the employer’s responsibility to pay their workers fairly. If you can’t pay your workers fairly, why does your business deserve to exist?
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It’s a poverty trap. Your choice often isn’t “get another job” or stay there. It’s do this job, and survive another month, or quit and be not be able to afford basic necessities (like rent, or food). Unfortunately, the job can leave you too mentally and/or physically exhausted to properly hunt or reskill for another job. It’s a catch 22 situation.
Interestingly, COVID actually helped a lot of people on that front. The government income support, and enforced rest let people stop, breathe and think. Many then went on to do exactly what you suggested. Unfortunately there’s always more to be drawn into the trap.
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In the UK (and a lot of Europe) tipping is completely optional. We only tip for exceptional service or if we’ve made the server’s life difficult. It’s an optional extra for the server.
At this point, it’s so endemic, in the US, that it likely needs to be fixed from the governmental level, but that doesn’t make it something that can’t be complained about.
American workers rights really scare me. Tipping being allowed to subsidise wages is awful, but so is the safety legislation, and child labour laws. We have issues in the UK obviously, but they’re relatively minor in comparison.
It’s only expected because consumers with a similar mentality to yours keep supplying the bandaids to the business. That, and poor local and federal regulation.
Practically nobody does uber as their main job, they do it because they either want/need extra money, or are struggling to survive at all. I know uberers, none of them would choose the job, but they can’t find other work. There’s an intentional lack of employment, in my country at least, to keep the workers moving forward; “Do for us, or end up like those people”.
If your business requires you to exploit your workers in order to make a profit, then your business doesn’t deserve to exist. Making excuses for the exploiters changes nothing.
If the business doesn’t deserve to exist, why do customers keep supporting them? Why is the onus only on the workers to suffer?
Why are customers responsible for ensuring that workers get paid fairly? I’m looking for a service. If your service cannot exist without exploiting your workers, then it doesn’t deserve to exist. You are not entitled to exploit people for your own gain.
That’s actually an excellent question. You should look into why people who work for America’s largest employer can only afford to shop at Walmart, have little to no benefits, no job security, and often qualify for food stamps (which is American taxpayers subsidizing their salaries). The owners of America’s largest employer are worth like $140,000,000,000.
Hint: it’s coercion.
“Free” market doesnt really work without regulation, otherwise we shift towards current business models where you, the customer, often dont really have the choice.
The pay is about $2 per order, regardless of mileage. Dashers can typically complete 2-3 orders per hour, and pay for their own fuel. The base pay is absolutely not worth it.
They are paid approximately $4 to $6 per hour, and yet some people are still defending the practice and asking customers to pay extra on top of the food and the $10+ delivery charge…
Given their compensation model, all I can say is that if you are not willing to tip, and/or you are not willing to tip ahead of time, you absolutely should not use the service at all.
And I don’t, specifically for that exact reason.
You realize that gig economy is the neoliberal slang for a poverty class work, but without the rights of workers, right?
So you’re criticizing people who are forced by the system in which we live, to be ordered around by a fucking algorithm, and then take abuse from people who have enough money to NOT work in the gig economy, but no where near enough to actually own the servant class they get off on abusing.
I agree with you completely but at the same time I have disdain for gig workers because they all seem to operate under an entirely different set of traffic laws and social conventions. At least where I live.
Wdym by social conventions?
I see them acting rudely to restaurant staff and grocery store staff often.
You realize that the gig economy is not my responsibility, right? I’m not criticizing the workers for being underpaid. I’m criticizing the exploiters for underpaying their workers. If you can’t pay your workers enough, that is not my fault. You are not entitled to exploit anyone for your personal gain.
If the pay isn’t enough without the tip, then maybe they should consider getting a different job.
I’m not criticizing the workers for being underpaid.
Study: When questioned about continuing to work for poverty wages, gig workers across the nation respond with resounding “guess I just didn’t think about it because I’m so goddamned stupid” ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ .
The first statement was meant as in these delivery services don’t deserve to keep their workers. They should instead look for a better job that will pay them properly. But that’s what these delivery services do…prey on the vulnerable that are desperate which is why there should be laws protecting them.
The point of tipping (to the tipper) is to show appreciation for the quality of service you received. If service is shit, you don’t get tipped as much.
Tipping before you get the service means quality of service plays no part in the transaction.
Tips are no longer tips and companies have successfully forced us to pay their employees for them.
It’s not the customer’s fault. In addition to us paying their wages we have to trust some rando to do a good job with zero evidence they will.
If they don’t fulfill your expectations, you inform DoorDash. They hand out full refunds like candy.
That “rando” is not a DoorDash employee. You’re hiring a contractor through a broker, not asking a restaurant to send a waitress to your table.
The employee-waitress can’t refuse you service without getting herself fired, but a contractor-driver can tell you exactly where and how far to shove your bullshit offer.
I don’t understand what point you’re trying to make. I realize they aren’t employees. That’s the root of the problem. They should be employees and paid by their employer. If they can’t run their business that way, then that clearly shows that it’s an exploitative and shitty business model that shouldn’t exist in the first place.
I do not appreciate Doordash offloading its responsibility of paying and “disciplining” its workers onto customers. Do you honestly have no problem with that?
They hand out refunds like candy.
That is assuming that I have the time and remember to do this, not to mention that I shouldn’t have to do it.
That’s the root of the problem. They should be employees and paid by their employer.
I strongly disagree. Employment is not a mutually beneficial relationship. Employment is an encumbrance on the worker, especially a non-union worker. As an employer, DoorDash can demand exclusivity. DoorDash would be allowed to add a non-compete clause, prohibiting employees from performing courier work on the side, or for competing platforms. I don’t want my working hours dictated to me on a schedule. I don’t want to have to negotiate time off or finding someone to cover my shift.
Employment would allow them to force drivers to take all “assignments”. I like being able to refuse service to a particular vendor or abusive customer. I don’t want to be forced to wait in the drive thru line for 45 minutes at a Taco Bell in a high-crime area.
Courier service is menial labor. When I look at other large businesses that utilize menial labor, I am not particularly struck by the equity of their employment agreements. I don’t see “employment” working out too well for the workers of Walmart, for example.
I do not appreciate Doordash offloading its responsibility of paying and “disciplining” its workers onto customers. Do you honestly have no problem with that?
No, I don’t have a problem with that. I think DoorDash retains too much control over pay and discipline of workers, and interferes too much between customers and workers.
DoorDash punishes workers for refusing orders, by downgrading their priority for higher paying offers. When a customer insists on placing a $3 offer for a 9-mile delivery, every driver in the area will reject it. That single shitty order results in every active driver having their “Acceptance Rate” stat lowered. DoorDash should not be giving customers this particular power over drivers. It is the customer who should be “punished” for making an offer so far below minimum wage.
Wow, what a bad set of takes.
You want Doordash to get the benefits of a company, but not the responsibilities of one. Because: libertarianism, or something
America’s view that tipping is normal needs to change.
How about an adequate wage instead, like the rest of the developed world?
There’s nothing to flip, gratuity and wages should be separate things. And minimum, standard living wages should be paid.
Well no, tipping is how you show your appreciation for a service. You are bring selfish if you don’t at least tip a minimal amount.
Please tip your plumber, i mean you do appreciate their work dont you?
15% would be fair wouldnt it?
You should tip anyone or dont you appreciate what they do for you? What? You already paid them? But you didnt yet appreciate them yet! How could you!My sons a plumber and he just got $100 tip for doing a job, but it was right before Christmas and the client was really rich. I don’t condone tipping but if I do tip it’s usually in cash
The way this comment section is going I’d expect them to beet the plummer.
A reasonable required base level of pay for service is necessary before a tip is showing appreciation.
There is a base level of pay. That doesn’t mean you get to hate the poor person who is stuck serving you. You should appreciate what others do for you.
Where did you get the idea that wanting reasonable wages before tips means I hate servers?
Learn to read.
I’m really starting to feel like some of the people in threads like this who don’t get this simple concept you stated are just experiencing cognitive dissonance about the fact that they themselves are happy to exploit the workers because they don’t want to tip. (If I’m working for myself, and you hire me to perform a service, then I am your worker. 🤣 Fuck you, pay me.)
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Cash is king in general. A cashless society is a shitty society.
Gotta disagree with this entirely. The only benefit I actually see the cash is that homeless folks don’t currently have great access to digital systems, which could be resolved if desired. What else is there?
Not allowing the government/banks the ability to freeze or seize your money because you did something they don’t approve of.
Not giving the government/big companies a log of how you spend your money.
I have never once heard of an innocent person’s assets being frozen. That’s a nuclear option that’s not often used. I’m certainly never keeping my assets in cash anyhow, as that’s fucking bonkers.
Just because you haven’t heard of it doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. It is a big world and everyone only sees their small piece of it.
The Canadian government did recently it with the trucker protests. The US did it with operation Choke Point starting in 2013. It targeted 20+ categories of merchants including porn stars, cable box descramblers, and money transfer networks.
The government routinely misuses the ‘justice’ system to wrongfully imprison people. Is it so hard to believe they will do the same thing with money? The government is not a neutral arbitrator of who is innocent. No one is innocent. But the government allows some people to be treated as more innocent than others.
Cashless forces everyone to cede control of their money to the government through the banks. Do you want the government to be able to get a list of everyone who purchases abortion pills? Can you see how such an ability can be easily abused by government? Assuming the government will always be friendly to you is a false assumption.
IIRC the protests in Canada were also super controversial, especially for the people who lived there at the time.
I will not get into that here, though.
If you aren’t keeping your life savings in cash and you wouldn’t trust digital currency, how would you propose your idea?
Even stuff like bitcoin would be susceptible to your concerns about government overeach. Investing could also easily be a crapshoot, because your entire life saving would still be reliant on someone who doesn’t know or care you.
What do you suggest?
I would say you ideally have enough for about a month expenses in cash. Then maybe have 2 more months expense in two different bank accounts(1 in each account). That way any one bank blocking an account for a flagged transaction is just a minor inconvenience. Same thing with credit cards, have 2 different ones so 1 getting blocked is just a minor inconvenience. Anything beyond that I would probably put in a tax advantaged investing account like a roth ira invested in mutual funds.
I wouldn’t be opposed to holding some portion of long term investments in a well established blockchain like bitcoin or monero but I would hardly call it a necessity for most people. They are effectively out of the reach of governments if they are setup and used correctly. But I wouldn’t expect most people to have the know how and motivation to set them up and use them that way. Government can’t tell bitcoin to freeze your account. They can tell that to your bank.
You did not demonstrate any of those examples were unjustified. they probably were
I do not expect the government to always behave, obviously because I am alive I have seen plenty of counterexamples.
However it’s beyond insane to suggest keeping my life savings in cash is even close to being less risky than using a bank. It’s ludicrous to suggest that. Do you understand that? It’s not subjective.
The examples were never proven to be justified by the government or anyone else. In both cases the government essentially said freeze these people’s money and the banks did. No due process. No presumption of innocence.
That is the danger of a cashless society.
I never suggested keeping your life savings in cash. You brought that up. I ignored that bit as your financial decisions are your own. And they are just not relevant to the original point of a cashless society being bad.
Google dominated search. Google search sucks now, there’s no equivalent alternatives.
Banks dominate digital money. They don’t suck too much on a day to day basis… Yet.
I stopped ordering from these apps because I got tired of watching the driver take my food on a tour of my city and having it arrive cold and wrong.
The last time I went to pick up my food from a restaurant I saw a dasher standing outside a restaurant staring at his phone with food in his hand, I went inside and while I was waiting the dude came back in, dropped the food and asked for another order because the one he took wasn’t tipping.
Fuck this system and fuck these apps, pick up your own food (if you can).
I’m starting to wonder if all that are symptoms of a company using information technology to it’s most powerful extent.
Services like Door Dash couldn’t exist at the current scale, speed, and service without the internet and highly capable phones/laptops/whatever in everyone’s home. It enabled this kind of gig economy service to come out of nowhere, build very rapidly, and disrupt the market before the law or even social norms could ever hope to step in. But as a consequence of all that, the owners cannot help themselves, and continue with their “Greed% speed run” of running a company straight to its conclusion. Every mistake, every error, every bad take, it’s all accelerated right alongside the good stuff. It’s like enshittification on amphetamines.
I saw somebody saying how these companies are going to start crashing and burning in the next few years because they’ve never been profitable but the low interest rates have allowed them to keep burning new investors money to fake it until they make it. They’ve been following the greed of infinite profits through infinite growth, but that growth suddenly isn’t infinite anymore, and now they’ll be getting to the find out stage after fucking around for so long.
I stopped using them when I stopped being given free delivery because without the discount, a thing that costs about six bucks suddenly balloons to thirty fucking dollars. On top of it taking longer and my food arriving cold.
are you really ordering a six-dollar item to be delivered and expecting it to be reasonable? maybe that’s the issue here. my orders are usually almost $100 and at that point it becomes pretty reasonable. if you live alone its not for you.
Somehow, places that use in-house delivery don’t have such a problem. Hm… It’s almost as if DoorDash and Uber Eats and the like are bullshit and ripping people off.
Or it’s like very few places have in-house delivery because it’s expensive for them and when they have it its limited. these delivery services are a great option for many people like me. yeah it costs more but when it’s worth it, it’s worth it.
before them, I had maybe 15 choices of where to get delivery from. now I have hundreds.
I had a local burger joint call me up to tell me that the our food was currently, and had been with the driver for the past 30 mins. They knew this because the guy decided to have dinner in the parking lot after picking up our order so I really try to avoid now
That’s just the opposite of how tipping is supposed to work. If I’m happy with the service, I’ll tip (and I’m far, far from the US - in a place where you don’t get frowned upon if you don’t tip) - and by “happy” I don’t even mean something extraordinary - but I can’t know if I will be happy in advance. Moreover I’d prefer tipping in cash as opposed to through an app - this way I know the money can go directly in the worker’s pocket, not in the company’s.
? I thought it did though. I’ve read online stories of Dashers being annoyed at low tips.
Typically? What door dash does is, if you tip 5 bucks, and the driver’s fee is five bucks, they take the fee back. At that point they’re loosing money, and door dash gets to say the tip goes to the driver.
(But the delivery fee doesn’t.)
That’s not how it works. I’m a door dash driver. We get a base pay, (usually $2-$3 per order but can be more if it’s peak hours) plus tip. The base pay isn’t affected by tips.
We see the total (base pay plus tip) when we are deciding whether to take an order. Orders without tips are rejected by most drivers.
They backtracked on that years ago due to public backlash. That’s no longer the case AFAIK
This is much “America” for my european brain
They get 100% of the tip, it’s a legal requirement. The scummy part is the company does this to give you the opportunity NOT to tip, and therefore subsidize the food for shitty people.
Just in case, the few times I have ordered food, I put a dollar or two tip in the app, and add a note saying I’ll give them a cash tip. Usually I’ll give them a 2-4 Dollars more depending. If you’re using these services you need to tip, that’s how they make their livelyhood and feed their families.
It’s a scummy business, and you should definitely try to avoid using it unless it’s your only option for some reason. Your order will probably be at least $30, but do you know how much spaghetti you can make with $30??
Can they reduce hourly pay based on tips received, as a loophole?
No
It’s worth noting that drivers don’t see the notes until they accept the order.
I used to do the same as you until I dashed for a few months to make ends meet.
I can also tell you that some orders literally cost drivers money to make when the tip is too low. I’ve had countless 25-30 mile round trip orders that paid out $6-7 because the person didn’t tip. I passed on those orders because I would have been paying to deliver them. Drivers need to make about $0.75/mile driven to break even, and most look for $2+\mile. I now look at the distance from the restaurant and tip $2/mile for the one direction. But I’m also in a place where they’re pretty likely to get another order pretty quickly and don’t need to make it a round trip.
The problem really rests with DoorDash and Uber Eats for not paying enough. They recently dropped the base payout to $2/delivery, which will never not cost the driver money. It’s absurd and incredibly shitty how they choose to offload the responsibility of paying their drivers into the customer.
So they pay less now than before?
Yes. The base payout was reduced again last year.
That is a legal requirement. But myself and others got a settlement from Amazon after they stole our tips for years. I got a check for $790 that they kept from me. I dunno if DD ever got caught doing the same, but businesses do try to get away with this stuff.
They used to do that, using the loophole that drivers technically get 100% of the tip because they were subtracting the base pay if the tip covered it. They stopped doing that but now they don’t show the full pay to the driver to discourage ignoring low tip orders, screwing over the good tippers who tipped well for fast service. It doesn’t matter if you tip well anymore because they’re going to bundle your order with low tip orders and force you to wait an hour to get delivery that used to take 20 minutes. It’s why I stopped using door dash.
It’s why I stopped using door dash.
Are they any good alternatives that you would suggest?
Unfortunately pretty much all of the apps are starting to do this, so I’ve just learned to live without.
This entire tipping thing is terrible - including for dashers themselves.
It means dashers income heavily relies on strangers being kind enough to leave some extra.
It means customers are gonna feel bad for not paying more than their order amount (and they probably will pay the tip)
It means company can employ slave labor for extremely low pay and still have people willing to do this.
Tipping benefits only one party - the companies. We need to stop it.
Stop patronizing restaurants where they don’t pay their staff a livable wage. Stop using delivery apps that don’t pay their drivers a livable wage.
This predatory employers are the problem. Stop rewarding them with your business.
Stop patronizing restaurants where they don’t pay their staff a livable wage.
In most parts of the US, that’s all of them. This position is de facto “never eat out or order takeout”. I’m not sure that’s entirely realistic.
So cook, by taking part in the exploitative system, not only are you contributing to it, but by not tipping on top of that the only person you’re hurting is the worker. That worker has never even met the CEO, the CEO doesn’t give two shits that while he got his money the guy on the bottom got stiffed. Yes it’s inconvenient, but if you have grandiose ideas about how the entire system should change, you should take part in said change not by exploiting that worker yourself but by boycotting the whole business; or by ordering, tipping, and trying to poach them for employment at your business; or by opening your own spot and paying fairly to set an example and provide others like you a place to buy guilt free; something other than “fuck you for bringing me food I hope you starve or have to live in a tent, tell your boss to pay you better I’m sure he won’t just find a ‘quieter’ employee like he did to all the others.”
correct on all parts, it pits dasher against customers. also these companies are still not profitable. that should tell you something.
the truth is that the business model just doesn’t work. if you want to pay drivers actual living wages, delivery fees would have to be more than 20 dollars for each order.
I don’t use door dash much but I’m pretty in Canada at least there is a mandatory tip . At least there is with skip the dishes that’s what I usually use .
If it’s mandatory it’s not a tip, it’s a fee, which is perfectly fine and reasonable for a home delivery service but it’s not a tip.
I agree. But he’s also wrong. Tip is not mandatory. If you want you food in a reasonable time frame however, it’s a good idea.
As someone who both drives for doordash and uses doordash to order. At least in my state. You cannot opt to not tip. Its not an option. Theres a mandatory tip of 4.00$ per order regardless of what you order, how far the location is from delivery etc.
