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- cross-posted to:
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- [email protected]
Because Boeing were on such a good streak already…
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It’s a bad day to stop sniffing glue!
You ever seen a grown man naked?
Working for Boeings PR department must be absolute madness right now… imagine having to somehow excuse all those fuck ups and every week there is a new one
The thing is, every Boeing plane that has any problem is going to make it to the news right now. So it’s very hard to see what is relevant and what is just “one of those things”. So, this will make them look worse than they really are.
Having said that, they have problems. My opinion is that cost-cutting has created all their recent actual problems (MCAS, missing bolts, loose bolts etc) and I’d argue that unless the actual location(s) responsible for these problems is identified, the safest thing to do would be to recall ALL aircraft recently (last 3 years AT LEAST) serviced, repaired or had their configuration changed at a Boeing owned or subcontracted location should be reviewed for substandard work.
My reasoning here is that if we have loose/missing bolts on the 737 Max 8/9 and -900ER. It won’t stop there, it is going to almost certainly be an institutionalised problem of quality control slippage that could affect any aircraft maintenance, repair, or adjustment operation.
But, I’m not an aviation expert, so my opinion is worth very little.
I agree with your comment, even though I have no idea on the technical aspects. What I can weigh in on is crisis management, especially communication.
Boeing needs to take control of the situation and actively start communicating and showing that they are working on fixing this thing. In Situational Crisis Communication Theory you would call it a rebuild approach. They tried denial, they tried downplaying, it’s not working. A rebuild strategy is usually the last resort, as things like admitting your mistakes and fixing them are rarely appreciated by investors. Furthermore it’s usually a huuuuge cost to do a recall on that scale. But Boeing need to show the public that they are actively working on improving the situation, to earn back their trust. So at least a partial recall should be considered.
You’re exactly right in your first paragraph about the news. The media and the public are very sensitive to Boeing quality issues rn. These articles won’t stop unless one of three things happen. Either Boeing gets their shit together and gets some effective crisis management and communication done, the company goes bust, or something else turns up in the news that replaces this. The third option will be the most likely, but it will also haunt them forever. It’s like that exploding galaxy note 7 situation. There were articles about that for every new generation of Galaxy Note, despite Samsung doing pretty well in investigating the issues. And while the following Note phones sold alright, the whole thing was a significant loss of trust and money for Samsung and enabled competitors like Huawai to catch up.
The company is still worth over 100 billions. They do something right.
Otherwise I agree with you. It’s almost hilarious to see fail after fail (as long as you are not in the plane).
Google’s worth billions, and they can go probably about 6 years doing nothing right before that changes. It took Yahoo! a while, you’ll catch on.
It’s call “military contracts”
Amd cruising on past reputation.
What they do right is having a duopoly with Airbus, and great military contracts. So investors know that even if things are shit rn, they will probably get better again.
Furthermore, while I agree that Boeing probably will not go bankrupt over this, the valuation sometimes is not a great indicator of what’s going on internally. Enron was worth over 60 billion. Half a year later they were at zero. Now I’m not saying Boeing is nearly that bad, but they are in some trouble for sure.
Nestle is worth billions. Sure, a bunch of kids die and we use slavery, but they must be doing something right.
Military contracts.
Well they were not doing so hot just 4 years ago when they said they were short a cool 60billion…
Except this one isn’t even a Boeing issue - this is a plane Delta has operated since 1992. This is entirely Delta’s maintenance’s fault. Boeing will still get blamed for it, of course.
I know, but no one cares who’s responsible at the moment. What people care about is that they read a new article about Boeings planes endangering passengers every 3 days. So while Delta is most likely at fault, Boeing is gonna take the hit to the company image. That’s why I was specifically speaking about the Boeing PR team. Those guys and the crisis managers won’t be able to catch a break for a loooong time.
“Next up: are Grandma’s visits killing her? Investigation finds Boeing builds airframes out of aluminum, which may or may not be linked to alzheimers. More at 11.”
45,000 commercial flights a day in the U.S. 35 deaths in the last 10 years. Thats about 164 million flights.
~115 people dying by car daily, and those numbers have been rising every year…
If planes get their kill ratio up high enough people will stop caring and start saying it is expected/needed.
Clearly more plane crashes are the answer.
how many car trips per day in the us? must be billions. deaths per mile* per traveler should be the metric, not number of trips.
ps: safest method of transportation is the elevator.
edit:*mile traveled
Elevators don’t travel any distance so if anyone is hurt by one they immediately lose by your metrics
are you 100% sure that elevators don’t travel any distance? or are we going to argue semantics over what distance is or isn’t.
You would need to keep track of how high airplanes fly if you did argue semantics
Just throwing this out - do we include the altitude the plane climbs in its distance traveled?
I don’t think we have enough information to say whether it’s a Boeing thing or not. The reason I say that is, that my understanding is some maintenance and repair operations will be performed by Boeing, or Boeing appointed subcontractors. What we may never find out is whether there was any work done on, or requiring access via the nose wheel area, and whether it was performed by Boeing/Boeing subcontracted technicians.
But, as I said in my other comment. This will be an ongoing problem where every Boeing plane issue will be reported now and unless announced by the operator or Boeing themselves, we’ll never know whether it was a Boeing maintenance problem or just neglect by the operator.
They didn’t say why it fell off yet. It might be a fatigue issue.
I would expect this to be a maintenance fail.
Can’t have a PR department if you laid them off.
No worries, it has been towed outside of the environment.
Into a different environment, right?
No, no, no, no, it’s being towed BEYOND the environment. It’s not in the environment.
Me, standing in the Backrooms, watching as a busted up 757 goes past:
I feel uncomfortable as a taxpayer having inadvertently supported Boeing and they are literally falling apart.
You think Airbus is gonna expand its capacity to build even more planes?
According the Airbus themselves, they finished 2023 with a backlog of 8598 orders, and they delivered 735 planes that same year. They are occupied for years ahead and it’s probably not so simple to increase production.
Edit: the source: Orders and deliveries / airbus.com
is this a new plane or is delta shirking on maintenance (delta’s fleet is one of the oldest)
This is an older plane. The last 757 was produced around 2004, so they’re 20 years old now. That said, I absolutely love this airframe there an absolute pleasure to fly. The Delta configuration has bathrooms in three spots on the plane. I’m fairly certain the fuselage is a little bit wider than a 737 so you get a little bit more room in the aisle AND there’s more exit row seating. The 757 has an interesting wing design to improve efficiency. It’s like partially super critical or something. Maybe somebody else can add on to that.
I remember flying the 757 a from Seattle to Detroit during covid and it was basically completely empty. It’s a bummer were going to see them start going away.
Boeing laid off about 900 QA people back in 2019. Now they are reaping the rewards
Between door bolts missing, virgin airlines missing wing bolts, this nose wheel, etc
It almost feels like some kind of related systemic error in the very thorough maintenance documentation required for aircrafts, or a large scale sabotage of some sort.
It feels like they’re using the Lego sorting robots to assemble the kit for a plane…
Any regulatory agencies that enforce this sort of stuff being defunded, understaffed, or de-toothed in the last 4-8 years?
That’s what this smells like, and we should really be getting ourselves ready for more of this in other industries.
I don’t know about the regulatory side, but Boeing gutted their experienced engineering corps starting about 10 years ago. In the pursuit of profit of course. I think we’re seeing the effects of that finally coming to the fore.
My understanding of the role of the regulatory agencies for stuff like this is that they can ground a model of plane if they believe there’s a systemic issue. Like we saw with the MAX.
Elsewhere: Airbus Christmas party budget doubles.
Seriously, they just can’t catch a break. Can they?
Planes don’t have breaks, silly. They fly. What are they going to do with breaks?
Planes have brakes* so they, for example, don’t bump the plane in front of them when moving through the line to take off.
I know this was a joke but it kinda feels flat
feels flat
Prolly a prediction of Boeing’s stock today
I think you have some work to do before your ready for your Tight Five at the Comedy Store
What are they going to do with breaks?
The are kind of important for stopping the plane after landing.
deleted by creator
How is this Boeings issue? This is a maintenance problem with the airline. Tires get replaced by maintenance staff. That plane isn’t brand new.
If I recall correctly, the aircraft manufacturer writes the maintenance guidelines.
This could be a Boeing issue, if it’s due to something that happened at the time the aircraft was built, or due to a foreseeable gap in the maintenance guidelines.
It could be a Delta issue, if they weren’t following the maintenance guidelines, or a maintenance contractor working for them wasn’t following them and they didn’t catch it.
It could also have been (very small but nonzero chance) the result of physical trauma to the plane that wasn’t foreseen, back in the 1990s when it was built, as something that might cause an issue of this magnitude. I haven’t yet seen any information on whether this particular aircraft has a history of hard landings or running over debris on the runway. Freak accidents do happen.
All of those have precedents in aviation history.
Well, if proper maintenance was done and the part still failed due to a design or quality issue that was improperly QC’d (missed, skipped, etc) then yeah it could be Boeings fault.
They’re getting extra scrutiny right now because of all the incidents recently, and all the anecdotal stories of former employees talking about how a bunch of suits are destroying it from the inside to make a quick buck.
And frankly, they fucking deserve it.
deleted by creator
And frankly, they fucking deserve it.
Except the suits aren’t going to be the ones hurt by the company going down in flames.
Boeing: “We hear your concerns. We plan to squash problems by firing all the employees who raised problems.”
It never is, but it prevents them from continuing to build new planes were profit has priority over security and “accidentally” killing 100s of people
Sure, but the 757 is a 40 year old design that has been out of production for 20 years.
I think the first two repliers have never heard of Ockham’s razor. I mean a micro meteorite could have struck some part of the wheel and knocked it off too, but probably not. Though that would be boeing’s fault to, because they didn’t make it micro meteorite tolerant.
Is it not Ocam’s razor?
Occam’s*
It can be Occam or Ockham. It’s named after William of Ockham, but it was the fashion at that time for scholars to “Latinise” their names, hence the alternative spelling.
Truly one of the english language moments of all time.
Careful. Boeing already tried the “but it’s not our job” excuse on a few major incidences with an executive now locked behind bars after pushing bribes to cover it up . They’d be best backing off on taking an attitude about where to assign blame. They got a lot of red spots that will never come out.
I remember watching this PBS Frontline segment on plane maintenance 10 years or so ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sw0b020OFj4
I imagine we still have those problems and the recent news of counterfeit parts entering the market is scary.
Good thing these recent incidents ended up with no serious injuries or death. Perhaps this timing is good in some really weird way as the Supreme Court starts considering powers of regulatory agencies and concerns around government funding to highlight the importance and need for this government role.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://www.piped.video/watch?v=sw0b020OFj4
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
If it’s Boeing, I’m not going.
Your trip is going to get complicated
It’s annoying, sure. But not that difficult. I’ve adjusted my flights coming up recently after the “door” issue to swap to airlines using Airbus.
Have you seriously made flight changes because of a single incident? Golly, I hope you walked to the airport instead of driving. Those cars are death traps.
Live and let live. Their choice doesn’t have any impact on you
Yes I did.
Does this mean the landing gear wheel closest to the nose fell off?
Oh okay. Yeah I just listened to the audio recording. I guess yes that’s what that means.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://www.piped.video/watch?v=JYIC-Vq13xE&t=2
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
This is (probably) not Boeings fault, it’s just that karma is striking back at them lol
Maybe Delta should’ve gotten the input of the focus group from I Think You Should Leave when trying to determine what they should do with their maintenance dollars.
No space for mother in law.
Yeah, that’s not very typical, I’d like to make that point.
Tip-ical.
Well, what sort of standards are those planes built to?
Then what is typical, I wonder?
I think the nose not falling off is typical
