Did people forget that Trump was up Netanyahu’s ass during his presidency?
it’s not the responsibility of voters to vote for certain politicians, it’s the responsibility of the politicians to represent people so they vote for them.
if you think joe biden is gonna lose then you gotta force joe biden to take more popular positions (he is literally running right now it’s the time you make up your platform), not yell at people “refusing” to vote for him as if they are just petulant children refusing to eat their veggies and act like the most logical and rational option is locking your vote for joe biden and whoever disagrees just cannot understand the correctness of your reasoning.
(to be clear i’m not american but it’s just ridiculous how many times i have heard this exact song and dance)
100% percent accurate. The same dumb shit happened when the Bernie Bros threw their tantrums in 2016.
I just can’t wait for those of us in the queer community to either be thrown in camps or flee the company, all so that the people who didn’t vote can tell me it’s actually because of Biden.
Queer people keep telling me Palestine is a nice place, maybe that’s a better option than America?
S/
As a trans person, it’s been so upsetting how quickly the people who claim to support you just ignore the looming danger. They don’t want to vote for Biden because he supports a genocide while ignoring the genocide that’s about to happen in our own country.
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I have a queer daughter and these people who say you shouldn’t vote for Biden (but they’re not saying Trump should win!) scare me.
Palestine will be even more fucked under Trump, he’s firmly on Israel’s side and would probably increase aid or give them carte blanche to just exterminate Palestine completely. While Biden hasn’t been much better, there’s at least signs that his administration is trying to reign in the Israelis, though for whatever reason they haven’t been terribly serious about it. I’m assuming it’s because Israel is a client state that for the most part cooperates with the US and buys our weapons, they can help further whatever policy goals we might have in the region. IMO they seem like they’re more trouble than they’re worth, whatever we might gain from Israel is ruined by Israel’s own conduct, they’re dragging us down with them as they act belligerently to everyone around them. Maybe being surrounded by hostile nations on all sides does that, but from the outside looking in it doesn’t look like they’ve seriously sought peace.
If anything, we should be withholding aid from them to get them to show a bit more humility and willingness to work towards peace, but I’m guessing they’d just turn to Russia or China instead and continue being belligerent. If that happened though, then Palestinians are just as fucked as before, if not more so. It’s crazy how fickle we can be with any other nation that needs our help and have left plenty of other allies to die, but for whatever reason, we just can’t quit Israel. Given all of the alternatives, Palestinians face a slow death unless some sort of two-state solution can be found (or if they could be integrated better into Israel instead of being dead-set on their own independent state), but from what I can see, the least-worst option is for the US to try to be a moderating influence on Israel like what Biden has been halfheartedly doing. It’s not great, but the alternatives are worse.
You guys wouldn’t have this clusterfuck if you just had a parliamentary system. Don’t like the non-reactionary liberal candidate? Great, just vote for whoever else you like, and even if they don’t win, they can still join efforts with the lesser evil to make sure the far right doesn’t return to power. It also has the added benefit that it doesn’t force the whole right wing of the country to cater to the rabid reactionaries on the rise, because those just make a different party that has to balance the distribution of their power with their less mad allies.
Tankies in tears over this, they can’t handle the fact that they have to vote for Biden lmao
Not voting for my candidate is the same as voting for my opposition, but not voting for my opposition is not the same as voting for my candidate.
All he’s got to do is say he wants affordable housing. Otherwise yeah I’ll let it burn.
Either I’m an idiot or this doesn’t make any sense at all.
I can’t be certain of either, so…
The White Left thinks getting called out for their dumb privileged shit is “fighting the left harder than Republicans”
Well, it makes sense to idiots, so looks like you’re in the clear this time.
It’s kind of word salady but I think it means “Democracts after Biden wins and they spend the next 4 years fighting the actual left wing of the party instead of fighting Republicans. And then Republicans win that election (2028), and carry on with their plan to end elections in the U.S. (and install some kind of Christian theocracy).”
But thats prettty short sighted. It assumes that going and voting in one presidential election is going to to get you the politicians and policies that you’d like which is obviously false.
Question for the libs who are flailing, trying and failing to understand how their country is backsliding into genocidal fascism (and taking shots to the left):
The deluge of Biden admins who have resigned because of the war - are they now supporting Trump since they are withholding their support for the Biden campaign?
I’d love to make a glib analogy like ‘my toast got burnt so I burned my house down and most of the neighbourhood’ but the literal fact that so many people are suffering makes that sort of thing rather tasteless.
I don’t think Biden is “Genocide Joe”. That’s ridiculous hyperbole which doesn’t help. We (the public) don’t know what kind of pressure is being levered in the background to end all the horrors of this situation.
People not voting Dem merely because of difficult historical relationships with Israel are dangerously deluded.
You’re completely missing the point that leftists are making if you compare voting for yet another liberal Capitalist as “burnt toast,” it’s closer to your house being on fire under Biden or your neighborhood under Trump. Neither is good, both are bad, Biden isn’t just an inconvenience unless you’re privledged enough that you’re fine with the Neoliberal status quo.
Will I be voting for Biden? Absolutely. Should I be told to stop whining about how he is a generic, lukewarm Capitalist perpetuating genocide? No.
Look I get the anger. As someone who who would love to see a radically more progressive US government I’m bummed that it’s not.
Please remember who the real enemy is in the situation; the hidden money and influence behind the regressive forces in US politics, currently exhibiting as ‘MAGA’ and other symptoms.
I would go so far as to say that those influences could be labelled as terrorists. Financial-Political terrorists causing chaos in the system.
How come we don’t talk about “Genocide Trump” more, this close to the election? I think the words “Genocide Trump” should be at least as important to hear online this close to the election. What about “Genocide Trump”, what do you think, do you think “Genocide Trump” should be at least or at least not less popular than your alternative?
Hell yes. But it’s not an alliteration so doesn’t roll off the tongue so easily.
Besides, his base and the caravan of dispicables don’t care. They probably think ‘Genocide’ is some sort of mouthwash.
He went around Congress to give them weapons. That’s pretty much all I have to know. Without threatening actual leverage, and that’s basically the only leverage they have, his words mean nothing. Batman Begins has a good lesson about that. I just wish there was a non-genocide *choice. What a cool democracy for a cool country.
Could focus on working on congressional campaign advocacy disallowing the President from near unlimited War Reserve Stockpile Allies – Israel (WRSA-I). Republicans are on pretending to be Anti-War doves yet all these protest are alienating them with their disgusting support for Hamass & antisemitic Houthis as well as being a nuisance to the public. Pretty sure there are a lot of people that would agree with this if they weren’t being interrupted in traffic picking up their family or trying to get to work on time.
The post has a point. Trump cut funding to UNRWA opposes Two-State unlike Biden and Trump has mentioned deporting any immigrant that doesn’t support Israel. Not to mention Democrats provided a slew of “young” candidates in 2020 yet most of the “left” went for an older candidate Bernie Sanders that now agrees with President Biden & that recognizes Ceasefires not offered by Hamas are a joke. So nobody to blame but themselves for the consolidation of one of the most Progressives Presidents in the modern era.
Don’t get mad when your fellow advocates refuse or reject to participate in Democracy. Israel & Palestine is a complex issue that many of you were asleep at the wheel on. I tried to bring up the matter up for a vote for amending our party platform at our State Democrat convention this summer because polling showed Democrats supported Palestinians more than Israel but it was the “Leftist” members that voted down claiming it wasn’t time to discuss it.
You were are missing in action with Ukraine as Russia tries to genocide them again. Hard to take you all serious especially when its fickle. President Biden is fighting to aid to Gaza as well as reduce the severity of fighting & working to release hostages that is great while wanting to support helping Ukraine. We are also trying to keep Africa safe & access to shipping food to them while antisemitic Houthis attack ships indiscriminately.
Wtf are you talking about? I argue to defend Ukraine all the time and donated money to them. You don’t know me.
That doesn’t mean Israel is not doing a genocide. In fact, if you think Russia is then there’s no way you don’t realize Israel is, or you’re being a hypocrite. The difference is the US was helping Ukraine in this scenario so I don’t need to advocate for them as much as the Palestinians, who currently desperately need our help.
And just because Trump is bad, doesn’t eliminate my point. In fact, it emphasizes it: I can’t choose a President who doesn’t like genocide right now. That sucks.
I do like the idea of disallowing the President from near unlimited War Reserve Stock Piles, though. That is a good point.
Right now its your definition of genocide that should be weighed in context. We may have a international determination on it coming up, so I’m going to wait for that process. War is awful and this one has some particular aspects that are awful but there are realities to contend with too. How in this world does Israel have bomb shelters all over the place yet Gaza had none yet had insane amount of tunnels that are even reinforced. Ukraine is important & the conflict matters to them too because they are losing out on artillery supplies as the US is stockpiling in Israel to prepare for increased hostilities in the region. Iranian weapons need to be stopped more so than US supplies IMO.
The aspect of no candidate available, please consider finding one. Its a shame that the organizations that get pro-Palestinian label don’t hold forums or solicit candidates questions on their support. Quite frankly its embarrassing because the GOP has done this for well over half a century from races to the highest office to local elections. That is something that would really help in advocacy & fundraising to build up a slate of options. Waiting to start in a reactive manner & not until a large election does give people reservation about the sincerity. Its not like this is really a conflict. Gazans were in a huge protest during the Trump admin against Israel & Hamas during the Trump administration after he recognized Jerusalem as Israel’s capitol(Dems have always wanted this but refused to pull the trigger).
Democrats have always been at the table for both parties here & have a long history of advancing Palestinian rights when its not popular but we expect both sides to take responsibility. Biden has done a lot and continues despite the critique.
Here is pretty interesting article on the stockpile if it helps. https://www.justsecurity.org/91213/the-war-reserve-stockpile-allies-israel-explained-why-congress-should-not-expand-it/
“All I have to know is what I learned from a batman movie”.
Way to go, sport!
Man get off your own headspace… Seriously
I will hold my nose and vote against a dictatorship but I do understand why people are so FUCKING ANGRY with the DNC for not even trying to find someone who is representative of the Democratic voters. They haven’t done so for the last decades and it is getting to point where something serious needs to be done about it. As in, make it clear to those ‘in power’ that we will make their lives a living hell if they continue to ignore the people.
It’s more than insulting. It’s disgusting behavior by people who know they can do whatever the fuck they want and no one can say or do anything about it because TRUUUMP!! It’s a fucking joke. It’s a disgrace to democracy and I will never again vote for Democrats.
This country is in fucking shambles.
Well, for me I actually quite like Biden. His Israel stance and protectionist economic policies are largely the only real policy positions he has that I disagree with him on, and he has done an exceptional job of accomplishing his stated policy goals within an extremely difficult and toxic political environment.
Here’s some food for thought: The last time the democrats had a solid hold on the federal govt with a filibuster proof majority in congress, we got the affordable care act. Ever since that term, the dems have been hamstrung by the GOP and rogue DINOs like Manchin and Sinema.
I don’t think there’s any “controlled opposition” conspiracy. If there’s a group to blame here the most, it’s the American media for pretending that the reason dems don’t get anything done is anything other than obstructionism and “both sides are bad hurr durr” rhetoric.
The last time the democrats had a solid hold on the federal govt with a filibuster proof majority in congress, we got the affordable care act.
A giveaway to corporate America and they arrogantly decided not to codify Roe v. Wade. And don’t forget, this was right after the financial crash and not one person from Wall Street went to jail over any of that shit.
It’s a hell of a lot more than anything the republicans have done for me in my lifetime. I certainly wouldn’t call it a giveaway to corporate america, they fought tooth and nail to try and keep anything even close to the ACA from passing. Is it an ideal system? No, but at least I can get a reasonable insurance package while un or self employed now, and that’s a huge deal for the economic mobility of the masses.
Diverting any of the efforts that went into passing the ACA to stuff like codifying roe v wade or staging a big crackdown on wallstreet most likely would have ended up with the ACA getting axed. That’s why we need to get the dems to have a secure position as the controlling party so they can focus on longer term goals and hammer the right wingers into irrelevancy. If we can get there, I’d hope to see the dems split into a liberal and leftist party so that way we can argue about which way we want to make progress happen instead of desperately trying to make any progress happen at all.
Buddy, I’m not content with “better than Republicans”. The Republicans are getting worse every year and Democrats are happy to follow closely behind.
Diverting any of the efforts that went into passing the ACA to stuff like codifying roe v wade or staging a big crackdown on wallstreet most likely would have ended up with the ACA getting axed.
You’re free to believe that. I believe they intentionally dragged it out specifically so they wouldn’t have to deliver anything else. Because most Democrat politicians are pro-corporate trash who are enabling the drift into fascism if not outright facilitating it.
You shouldn’t be content with just “better than Republicans” that’s how we get progress. That said, I still think you’re overstating how bad the democrats are. Yes, on some issues, they fold to corporate pressures and I’m not happy about that. In many other areas they are hamstrung by obstructionism and having to appeal to a big tent voter base; this is unavoidable until the republican party becomes irrelevant and the dems can split. There are plenty of areas however where they’re making incredible progress, here’s a list of stuff that the Biden admin has done just in 2023: https://www.reddit.com/r/WhatBidenHasDone/comments/11lohnc/what_biden_has_done_year_three_year_one_two_are/
44 Democrat senators politicians and Joe Biden acted with lightning speed to block the rail strike. Meanwhile Biden has enlisted Yellen and Powell to go to war with American Workers. Fuck Joe Biden.
still think you’re overstating how bad the democrats are
Respectfully, go fuck yourself. If you genuinely don’t think this is bad then you and I are not on the same side. Good luck in 2024 Elect your procorporate trash candidate all on your own.
I’m not claiming there is a secret cabal of evil doers conspiring to ruin everything. But the interests of the rich all align and so they are all largely working towards the same thing. Having money in politics corrupts every single person in it, though to varying degrees. Both sides are very clearly bad. But also very clearly not to the same degree. I agree that Biden has done a lot that is good. But his whole platform is attempting to maintain status quo and while I haven’t mentioned this before, my main concern is climate change.
Climate change is going to FUCK everyone. It is already and there is virtually no time to daudle about with half measures and false promises. There have been policies that claim to help and may even attempt to in good faith but they are consistently coopted or corrupted by lobbiests before being implemented or circumvented after. There needs to be strong, decisive action taken to reign in carbon emissions and not just do carbon offsets because carbon offsets are never going to solve this problem. All they do is delay actual action. The main reason I am so fucking angry with Biden is because he’s fucking ancient and simply doesn’t feel the same urgency as someone who will actually live with the consequences of the recklessness and stupidity of fossil fuels companies.
Everything he has tried to do with regards to this only ends up enriching companies further or passing the blame off to the poor of the country who have no other options than to use fossile fuels. I want someone who will take these oil oligarchs (Oiligarchs is something I saw once and it made me chuckle) to task and actually reign in their insane greed and violence against the natural world. He would and could never even dream of actually doing so. No one the DNC would ever allow to be the candidate would.
There is literally no time left to enact action but here we are twiddling our thumbs while Republicans debate whether Texas should secede for some insane reason. It’s all distraction. I’m pissed the fuck off at it all and the ineffectiveness of liberal policy. They are all meek cowards who only exist to lose against the Republicans and then shrug and claim "well at least we tried. :( "
What could Biden have feasibly done other than what he’s already done in regards to climate change?
The free market already knows that the fossil fuel industry is rapidly dying, as evidenced by the fact that renewable energy is now the cheapest option for building out new power gen and oil companies have been diversifying away from oil for years now. Don’t be surprised if you see Shell building offshore wind farms instead of oil drilling platforms soon.
He’s included absolutely massive amounts of funding for renewable projects in the infrastructure bills that have been passed. Enough so that I expect the entire energy landscape of the US to look totally different within the decade. It can’t be overstated how big of deal this is, and realistically, this is the most effective climate action he could have taken that wouldn’t get stonewalled by republican obstructionism.
Re. fossil fuels and poor people, he’s done a good job of both not handing more power to the fossil fuel corps while also not hamstringing the industry and subsequently jacking up the price of energy and transportation across the board. As much as I’d like to ditch fossil fuels, enacting policy that would jack gas prices into the double digits before we’re ready to switch by gutting the fossil fuels industry would be political suicide.
Sure, a lot of the legislation he’s passing hands money to wealthy corporations. Somebody has to build the infrastructure to get us off fossil fuels after all. That doesn’t mean it isn’t also improving the world around us at a pace faster than any president in recent history, and being in a position that Biden is bringing us to is a much more stable platform to build real social and economic change off of. There will be no need for a messy revolution if we can incrementally design and build systems that handle the issues we face in a level headed, evidence based fasion.
Yeah I know. I really do. Not excusing it all but progressive policy is hamstrung by all the insane compromise that has to be made. Most of it due to the machinations of both external meddling by countries like Russia, and a (metaphorical) handful of rich people polluting the public discourse with utter nonsense.
They have the media sewn up to spew garbage, and are destroying the education systems to weaken any intellectual resistance.
I will hold my nose and vote against a dictatorship but
nd I will never again vote for Democrats.
so which is it?
Careful about confusing them, theyre reporting comments and getting them removed by automod lmao. It’s almost worse than reddit. Fuck this place
You sound whiney
yeah I get comments pulled for hurting feelings all over. people can dish out insults but they really don’t like retorts that come with facts linked, especially the facts that refute their ideals. I was hoping lemmy would be a bit more clinical.
It’s really not that hard to understand. I will vote this time, to prevent trump. Then I will ensure that there is another choice the next time. In any way I can.
well it’s grammatically confusing; if you’d stated ‘and going forward, I will never again’ - sorry it’s easy to get confused when the statements contradict each other. I wish you the best of luck, I despise the DNC and think, short of trump / gop, there are few orgs I dislike more, but I will always give them the carveout: well yeah if it’s hitler/trump/etc, I’ll have to. there are people in so many threads that can’t grok there’s a good reason for that carveout, and want to play fuck-around-and-find-out with trump-2.0 rebuilding our democracy into a fascistopia.
Fair point. It was somewhat confusing I suppose.
We have more power to select our democratic candidate than you might think. The primaries in 2020 were our opportunity to select our democratic candidate. Far less people vote in primaries than they do in the general election. Biden won the primaries, so he got the Democratic nomination. If more people voted for primaries we could have a more progressive president. It just turns out that a smaller subset of our population gets to pick the Democratic nominee
You say that as though the entirety of the DNC leadership didn’t unite against Bernie Sanders when he was the clear front runner over Hillary. And again, in 2020. I agree, more people need to vote in the primaries. But there is clearly meddling and coercion happening behind the scenes to ensure an appropriately corporate candidate is selected.
If they were exerting pressure then Netanyahu would have complained to Congress, like he did with Bush and Obama. Cutting off arms shipments is exerting pressure. Removing the UN block is exerting pressure.
Writing mean words in secret is nothing.
The pen will pen-etrate you if don’t watch out.
It’s a really really tricky situation for any US President, or Congress.
No analogy really does the situation justice. It’s all a horrible mess and that creep Netanyahu doesn’t help in any way.
I feel like posts like these always fail to realize how fucked of a situation US ‘democracy’ is in where you must vote for one shitty candidate because the other is literally a fascist.
Like no actually some people have decided that the entire system is untenable - they no there’s a lesser of two evils, but they refuse to partake of an illegitimate system.
A critical refinement of this point: By all means, please do vote for whichever actual progressive candidate you favor in your state’s Democratic primary. This is not sarcasm; do it. But when the general election comes around Biden is inevitably the candidate anyway, do whatever it takes to keep Trump out of office.
And why shouldn’t Biden do whatever it takes to stop Trump? If supporting a genocide loses votes, there’s an easy way to win those votes back.
How do we know supporting Israel isn’t getting him more votes then not supporting Israel?
It’s not that simple. Changing positions will probably polarize people to vote against him as much as it will win over votes to him.
Especially because those who are likely to withhold votes over this will probably demand the most drastic of actions before Biden passes their purity test.
Geopolitically it’s a bad move on top of that as it ends the relationship with practicallythe only middle Eastern power we have as an ally.
The reproductions of that alone is certain to energize opposition to Biden in the far right.
While he may lose voters over his current inaction, taking action could easily lead to a net loss on election day.
Unfortunately what is best for a country geopolitically and what is morally right often don’t agree with each other.
Even from a moral choice Biden is the better option. You get someone pressuring for a Two-state solution keep aid flowing to Palestinians as well as to support in helping Ukraine who are being genocided by their definitions. While also supporting international efforts to re-open one of the busiest shipping channels so places like Africa & others experiencing hardships that will have trouble maintaining safety & stability if prices of common goods increases.
Woah woah woah, you mean actually try to win votes through rational and humane policy and not merely the fact that he’s running against a human piece of shit and is technically better? You mean that we should have someone with actual principles on the democratic ticket instead of someone nodding along and sending weapons to a genocidal government? Outrageous wow why do you love Trump so much
You can tell they’re white because they phrased this like they’re lecturing the party’s manager at DNC Walmart
That would require them to actually give enough of a shit to turn out for primaries, and president Bernie can tell you that none of these fake allies actually care enough to wrench themselves from their two bit Jean-Paul Marat act for such a herculean labor.
If you’re in a red area, consider voting in the Republican primary in good faith. (Don’t try nominating the worse candidate. The backfire is terrible.) You’re still allowed to vote for whoever you want in the general. This election primaries will largely be about down ticket races, but that’s important too.
See Bernie 2016. Won the DNC, but got snake in the grass Hillary instead, which led to understandable mass apathy amongst the Democratic voters. I’m still pissed! Kinda like what reportedly happened with McGovern '72
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