• @[email protected]
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    51 year ago

    I disagree with the post. Seen it has a requirement.txt, creating a virtual env should be required.

  • @[email protected]
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    1121 year ago

    I agree that github is for developers or people who at the very least don’t mind learning a bit of development and getting their hands dirty. The poster demanding an exe is quite entitled - and also from what I understand the repo he is referring to is a python repo, so there normally wouldn’t be an exe, it’d just be run via a python command.

    There’s a bigger problem here, which is that technical skill in newer generations is also decreasing - as someone on reddit had once said “I’m a millennial and I’m doing tech support for my parents as well as my children”. A generation raised on tablets and phones have gotten the false impression of being tech savy, when their actual technical skill is using end products.

    Expecting every github repo to provide you with something you just click-and-run is overlooking the complexities and reality of how code is. By it self that isn’t a problem, but the entitlement it takes to publicly and arrogantly post that on a public forum is astounding and counter-productive to people who work on those small repos.

    • @[email protected]
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      11 year ago

      I would argue that “development” is a superset of “pc operation” which includes things like opening a terminal, issuing commands, installing things, and occasionally light scripting and programming.

      At some point these things should be middle school literacy, but maybe not, I’m probably biased.

    • @[email protected]
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      11 year ago

      There are people whose entire understanding and knowledge of the internet exists entirely inside the Facebook app

      Buy phone Install Facebook The end.

    • body_by_make
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      591 year ago

      Nobody has any idea how old this poster is, it could be an old ass boomer as easily as it could be a zoomer and we’re just going on making statements about the technical abilities of new generations without any actual evidence other than a single person that can’t do something for themselves? There are many, many people from my graduating class who would be as helpless as this person and I’m fucking 30.

      • @[email protected]
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        341 year ago

        The same thing happened in the previous generation too. Some boomer would start raging about how these millennials don’t know how to fix cars or install toilets or whatever anymore based on one cherry picked example and the other 95% of boomers that have been paying a mechanic or a plumber this whole time and don’t know how to do shit would just nod along.

        • @[email protected]
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          101 year ago

          Yes, but knowing how to install a toilet the difficult way (instead of hiring a plumber) was replaced by knowing how to install a program the difficult way (via a command line instead of an installer).

          Now, Zoomers aren’t stupid or tech illiterate, I have a Zoomer friend and she’s more tech literate than I am. The issue is that installing a program the hard way has been replaced with minimizing your carbon and digital footprints. That’s not the skill of a super predator, its the skill of prey. We’ve been reduced to prey for the shareholders of corporations.

  • @[email protected]
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    331 year ago

    In an upcoming post: “Why can’t anyone just make a button that automatically hacks facebook???!!!”

    It’s really interesting how differently you see technology as a professional compared to “normies”. So much stuff is easily solved by following instructions or reading error messages.

  • Echo Dot
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    141 year ago

    I kind of agree with the Reddit post. Like how hard is it to just provide a simple download button? Obviously if it’s an open source project and still in development there’s not a lot of utility in doing that, but there are situations where there will be a plug-in for a program and it’s been distributed via github.

    And it’s got a terrible UI, I can never remember where the download zip button is, because it’s not obvious.

    • @[email protected]
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      131 year ago

      You are arguing with elitism, it will never go anywhere and they will never feel ashamed.

      Honestly, 99% of the reason the world is still locked in closed source software ecosystems is that fucking elitist rectal-cranial inversionist devs that want to make it as hard as possible for a non-dev to use their tools.

      ‘You aren’t entitled to an easy install’ is the mantra they whisper in their hearts as they push code.

      • @[email protected]
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        201 year ago

        What? It’s python code, not in a binary, and you’re complaining about things being closed source?

        Also if you want it compiled and provided to you, feel free to pay someone to provide that service.

        The only barrier here is not wanting to pay AND not wanting to learn or read instructions.

        Life is going to be pretty tricky with that mentality.

        • @[email protected]
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          61 year ago

          ^This attitude is exactly what crippled open source, good job playing into Apple and Microshit’s hands.

          The more effort a user has to put in to use a tool, especially when other, easier and functional tools exist, the less likely that user is going to adopt that tool as part of their daily use.

          The only barrier here is not wanting to pay AND not wanting to learn or read instructions.

          This is a false dichotomy, there are plenty of free and good open source tools that don’t need 20 hours of manual plundering to install.

          The Gimp is a great example of this, super easy to install right out the box for even non-technical people, is open source, doesn’t cost a cent.

          The simple truth is devs that share your attitude are too lazy to complete their projects so they get it to 80% and expect the end user to finish the rest.

          Do you think that is winning you any adherents? But please, keep proving my claims of linux elitism so blatantly, it makes my job so much easier.

          • @[email protected]
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            51 year ago

            The more effort a user has to put in to use a tool, especially when other, easier and functional tools exist, the less likely that user is going to adopt that tool as part of their daily use.

            The catch here is that oftentimes, for the use cases that people get elitist about, there are no other, easier, or functional tools, which is part of why it’s so frustrating to encounter elitist mindsets around this stuff. I don’t even really particularly care about not having .exes or what have you, or having to compile a python script, right, I mostly just kind of find it frustrating when documentation for these kinds of projects is extremely lacking and unclear as to what you’re supposed to do. Shit takes 3 minutes on the dev’s side, to curb like 20 or so more questions clogging up issue reporting and, realistically, what should be the avenues of contact you’re gonna want to be using for bug reports. It’s literally worse for the dev not to at the very least make the documentation a little better than it usually is. Sometimes that scales up to even be, it would be better for the dev to actually make an exe because that would be more idiot proof, and they would also get less shitty complaints.

            Basically the argument I’m making is that many devs kind of encounter a deadlock where they get really frustrated at giving out something for free, then encountering complaints about inaccessibility, and then they start fighting ghosts when people ask them questions in lacking documentation. Most of these cases, if they’d put in slightly more effort from the start, they would’ve solved themselves a more massive headache in the long run. Lots of these, you don’t even really have to put in a ton of extra effort, such is the upside of open source, you can just solve the documentation afterwards when someone comes in with a question the first time and then you take that feedback and actually append it to your documentation instead of just getting frustrated that everyone else is too stupid.

            • @[email protected]
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              11 year ago

              I’m glad to finally see someone in this thread talking rationally about this. Thank you.

              many devs kind of encounter a deadlock where they get really frustrated at giving out something for free,

              I get that, the world is expensive, but being profit motivated does not align with the open source ethos. I have no problems with devs choosing to go closed source and charging for their products, but 90% of open source projects never get to the point of being solid enough to be a paid product regarding ease of install and use.

              • @[email protected]
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                31 year ago

                I think it’s less that they want to be paid, and more that they just are doing something that they think is kind of like, an altruistic act (and it is, probably, as long as they’re not maybe encouraging stagnation or inhabiting the space so that another dev won’t take a crack at it). So it’s frustrating to be doing this altruistic, somewhat thankless act, and then get bitched at for it, even if you’re getting bitched at because of your own stupidity, or lack of forethought, or insular presumption that everyone else knows how to do what you do. I empathize with them, and I see their problem, but I also understand why people are bitching, instead of just being like “the people who are bitching suck and are wrong” how people tend to do, which just leads to a positive feedback loop where everyone is constantly pissed off.

                • @[email protected]
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                  21 year ago

                  Look I did helpdesk for a decade, I know for a fact what it feels like to be bitched at by people that you try to help. What I’m saying is that open source projects need big teams and people who know how to organize them, and there should be a foundation with the sole purpose of rounding up donations to fund those teams working on worthwhile projects.

                  And if some exist now point me in their direction and I will gladly donate.

                  If It takes me less than 10 mins to install their software.

          • @[email protected]
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            31 year ago

            The Gimp is a great example of this, super easy to install right out the box for even non-technical people, is open source, doesn’t cost a cent.

            No, it’s not, GIMP has funding, resources and a fucking company behind it lmao and on top of that it’s intended to be an end-user tool

            Not all open source projects are the same, many are just things people work on in their free time and are kind enough to share, many aren’t intended (like this one) for end users at all. They’re meant for people who know what they’re doing (which it’s quite evident you don’t)

            If you want to know who is actually harming the open source community look in a mirror, it’s people like you who whine and bitch about “Meah InstAllers MeH uSEr ExpErIenCe” that makes devs not want to contribute

            • @[email protected]
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              31 year ago

              No, it’s not, GIMP has funding,

              That contradicts zero statements I have made, it is still super easy to install, doesn’t cost the user a cent, and is open source.

              Maybe the world would be a better place of more open source projects had funding.

              that makes devs not want to contribute

              If money is so important to them then maybe they should choose not to be open source devs?

              If you cannot adhere to the philosophy then don’t complain when people call you out on it.

              it’s people like you

              It’s people like me that have chosen not to go the open source route due to the difficulty, that is our choice and is the worldwide average choice as hardly anyone ever bothers to deal with all the byzantine bullshit that arrogant elitists like yourself are just giddy over expressing.

              Open Source has failed its original goals due to elitist devs putting up artificial hurdles to general adoption, you don’t get to complain about adoption if you actively narrow your market segment to people who have the time and experience to fix your broken shit before they use it.

              • @[email protected]
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                31 year ago

                Lmao, just because something is open source doesn’t mean the devs are expecting a return. You talk about market segments, adoption rates and funding like that’s the only goal someone has for sharing their project

                You expect someone who put something on GitHub, for free, for everyone, worked on with their spare time because they had a passion for it to have it 100% ready to ship to production complete with an installer and a GUI? Nah, you’re the elitist asshole, you should order more than one mirror.

                That contradicts zero statements I have made, it is still super easy to install, doesn’t cost the user a cent, and is open source

                Yes it does, they have the funding and resources to pay someone to handle the easy installer and user experience, they have teams of people to handle the issues.

                If money is so important to them then maybe they should choose not to be open source devs?

                If you cannot adhere to the philosophy then don’t complain when people call you out on it.

                LMFAO it’s not about the money, it’s time and effort, for one or 2 people maintaining a project they shared and work on in their free time that’s in short supply.

                If you have your panties in such a twist over “User Experience” it’s open source, make your own damn contributions. Contribute an installer then, contribute some infrastructure for a website to have your fancy download button. You talk of open source philosophy, but then instead of contributing to making a project’s user experience better, you just bitch about it instead.

          • magic_lobster_party
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            21 year ago

            It’s not about elitism. It’s because most developers don’t want to spend that time on the extra maintenance and QA to ensure it’s working flawlessly for the end user.

            Most FOSS are just things people initially wanted for themselves, so they developed it in their spare time. Then they thought it might be neat to share the code in case someone else might find use in it, so they uploaded their work to GitHub.

            If you want an exe you can always contribute to the project, or at least make a fork.

          • 520
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            61 year ago

            This is not a standard tool. This is an offensive security (aka hacking tool).

            The hacking community does not want people like the one in the post.

              • 520
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                1 year ago

                There is one core difference. In regular open source projects, lack of layman accessibility is considered a bug.

                For offensive security tools such as in OP’s post, it simply isn’t a consideration because the audience for these tools are not laymen, therefore they aren’t designed with laymen in mind.

                In fact there’s something of an incentive to keep laymen out because people just hitting random buttons without serious consideration of what they are doing can land people in jail.

                They’re designed with the offensive security community in mind, of which even the most rookie members think nothing of firing up terminal and entering some nifty commands.

          • @[email protected]
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            1 year ago

            You don’t know what you’re talking about, simple as.

            This is a python tool. It will never be compiled for you. Ever. It’s literally not compiled. Get over it.

            This post was perfectly made to trigger all the morons who don’t know the first thing about coding… getting upset you’re looking at source code… in a repository…

            If you’re upset at seeing source code, GET THE FUCK OUT OF THE REPO!!

            • @[email protected]
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              31 year ago

              Listen son, I was coding and compiling C++ for MUDs back in the early 90s and some of my python code is still being used back at my university and I graduated before smartphones.

              Your assumption of incompetence is just another symptom of the elitist rot that small minded devs constantly wear.

              • @[email protected]
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                21 year ago

                I was coding and compiling C++ for MUDs back in the early 90s and some of my python code is still being used back at my university and I graduated before smartphones.

                Oh I get it now, you’re just an old fart with outdated knowledge who can’t be bothered to keep up with “all this dag nabbit fancy tech, back in MY day” blah blah blah, go back to yelling at the cloud

                • @[email protected]
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                  31 year ago

                  That’s not how getting older works. At all. Especially in tech.

                  You know one of the funniest things about people insulting me over my age? If everything goes well for you, you’ll be here one day too. And it’s going to be a lot sooner than you think.

                  And then you can have Gen Beta insult you for being an old fogie tied to the tablet ecosystem when brain interfaces are the norm.

                  I hope you remember this moment when it happens to you, but you likely won’t.

          • @[email protected]
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            31 year ago

            Many open source devs don’t care about the quantity of users as much as the quality. Good users, who can spot and report bugs, are worth their weight in gold. Users who can’t do this may be great humans in their own fields, but aren’t really that useful for the project.

            This is a false dichotomy, there are plenty of free and good open source tools that don’t need 20 hours of manual plundering to install.

            Right, and they do it because they have more funding, time and/or manpower. Not all teams have these.

            • @[email protected]
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              41 year ago

              Then it isn’t open source, available to all.

              ‘I only want smart users who don’t complain’ is the most arrogant attitude a dev can have.

              Right, and they do it because they have more funding, time and/or manpower. Not all teams have these.

              Ok then maybe more open source projects should get funding.

              • @[email protected]
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                11 year ago

                Open source means you are allowed to see the source code, and to modify and/or share it. No warranty or support is implied, and some software explicitly disclaim any such responsibility.

                ‘I only want smart users who don’t complain’ is the most arrogant attitude a dev can have.

                I don’t think any dev wants users who don’t complain. But when their time is limited, they want users who will submit useful complaints.

                Also, maybe the situation will become clearer if you ask yourself why open source devs share their code for free. They aren’t (usually) getting paid to do it. They are giving you code they probably wrote for their own personal use, in the hope that you might find and report issues with it, and thus help them make their own copy better. So if you aren’t good enough to do that, well, they might help you out of the goodness of their heart, but you really aren’t entitled to their help.

                Ok then maybe more open source projects should get funding.

                I mean, yes?

    • magic_lobster_party
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      161 year ago

      Because making proper executables working on all machines is just extra maintenance work. They probably just wanted to code something and share it to the world without that extra headache.

      • Echo Dot
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        51 year ago

        Unless you’re running it very low level code no it’s not.

        If it’s anything that is in c++ or java You’re basically making me copy paste your code into a compiler and then pressing compile the end result will be identical to the one you would have given me.

        • magic_lobster_party
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          111 year ago

          It’s not if you want to compile for Windows, Linux and Mac at the same time, with x86, x64 and ARM support. Cross compiling can often be a big annoyance to set up.

          And this is a Python project. Making stand alone executables for Python projects is rare.

          • @[email protected]
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            1 year ago

            GitHub public repositories get free build runners for all of those except ARM and aren’t that hard to set up (for compiled languages of course).

    • janAkali
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      1 year ago

      Github is not a software distribution platform, it was never meant to be one. It’s a developer platform for code distribution and collaboration. And UI is designed around that.

      A lot of projects use it as a distribution platform, but they’re wrong - it’s always better to have a web page with simple download button for casual “ordinary” people.

      But, this case is special: this mostly harmless tool is designed and almost exclusively used to stalk / doxx / hack people =|. So, it’s not in developers interest to make it widely available and easy to install.

      • @[email protected]
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        41 year ago

        You’re full of contradictions. “It’s not a distribution platform it’s another kind of distribution platform.” Nevermind the fact that it has a “releases” feature designed to provide a somewhat easy way to distribute software however the dev wants to use it.

        Then “it’s a mostly harmless script designed to commit crimes.” Do you know what harmless means?

        • janAkali
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          1 year ago

          Sorry, I meant to write that Github is not a software distribution, but a code distribution platform.

          And ‘mostly harmless’ as in it’s not inherently malicious - you can use it for harmless stuff. It’s merely a tool.

          • @[email protected]
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            31 year ago

            Also I don’t really follow how it makes sense that the UI should be bad if they only meant for it to be used with code. Developers are humans too, and the GitHub UI is not great. I use it all the time and still get confused by some of the dumb UI decisions they have made.

  • @[email protected]
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    221 year ago

    People misunderstand the target audience of GitHub—which is specifically not the general public, but yes, developers. If you don’t want to be treated as a developer, don’t use a platform designed for developers. And I’m saying this as someone who’s having a horrible time learning hot git and GitHub works. (Not because it’s bad, I’m just a slow learner lol)

    • @[email protected]
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      111 year ago

      Git design is a little bit bad, mostly just in the UI that is unintuitive and sometimes needlessly complex. Its why things like JJ and Mercurial are still being made.

        • @[email protected]
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          21 year ago

          i don’t get this, just go to the releases page? like 2-3 clicks and you have a series of links to “theprogram.exe” “theprogram.sh” “theprogram.zip”

          or are you just talking about shit like libraries? because yeah that’s… not how you install libraries…

      • @[email protected]
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        21 year ago

        You take it back or grand exhalted emperor of Open Source Linus (may his personal Linux Kernel repo live forever) will be angry.

  • @[email protected]
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    1 year ago

    Steps to building a cool program (the really cool way)

    1. Clone the GitHub repository
    2. Open command prompt
    3. Run the build command
    4. It fails because the repository owner uses a different c++ compiler and it only works with that one
    5. It fails again, realize you installed visual studio wrong somehow so spend an hour trying to get the visual studio installer to find and uninstall it before deleting the installation directory entirely and installing the required version again
    6. It still fails, the project looks for version “” of protobuf but you have “3.1.10.1” so you reconfigure it to look for a real version of protobuf
    7. It fails again, some tool that isn’t in the readme is required to build it
    8. It fails again, it’s not actually compatible with windows yet
    9. Give up and wait for pre built binaries

    Edit: did the other guy that responded block me? I got a notification about it but can’t load the comment

    • @[email protected]
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      241 year ago

      It could be used for cyberstalking, but it’s not expressly built for that use case I think. All it does is spit out sites that have a matching user name on file. It’s actually quite useful for periodic social media / account cleanup to check for account you created for one reason or another and no longer need / have grown dormant.

      In that sense it’s similar to something like Mine.

    • @[email protected]
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      141 year ago

      I mean I used it to see what shit I signed up with, especially if you’ve had your email for a few years. I used the website not the app

  • @[email protected]
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    51 year ago

    Okay but I hate released projects that force you to compile it into your target platform if it’s something simple like a file converter or a save file editor and the process involves lots of work.

  • @[email protected]
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    As someone who quite hates being in that situation (although I can build binaries and all that with a little grunt), I can’t quite understand why sometimes developers can’t do what’s seemingly so simple for them - build and release their code as a package.

    Like, I know there are variables when building, but why can’t you just make a default package (okay, series of packages for different OSes if needed) for everyone to enjoy? Is it just some elitist mindset or no bothering about anyone but devs or are there valid reasons for such actions beyond “I don’t care”?

    • @[email protected]
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      1 year ago

      It’s Python. It’s source or nothing. It’s as close to universally released as it can get without a lot more effort. This is a perfect example of where non-tech savvy people put their foot in their mouth and chew.

      • rudyharrelson
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        101 year ago

        It’s Python. It’s source or nothing.

        Not quite true. There are tools that can compile a Python program to a binary. I used PyInstaller years ago to create a single-file .exe file of a Python app I designed for a non-tech savvy friend. Worked like a charm.

        • @[email protected]
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          91 year ago

          Remember, the person does it FOR FREE in his SPARE TIME. Any type of entitlement is absolutely toxic. No, you are not entitled for an installer. Especially with Python. The READMEs are usually 1-5 commands, anyway. People would rather rant for across several forums rather than educate themselves over 30 mins.

          • rudyharrelson
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            31 year ago

            I wasn’t suggesting the developer is obligated to compile anything. I was simply correcting the person I was responding to because they were incorrect. They said “It’s source or nothing”, and I chimed in that there are, in fact, ways to compile Python to simple executables. Nowhere did I say the developer is required to do this for end users.

        • @[email protected]
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          Yes, but that’s extra effort, for a single platform. In order to properly asuage the goons that whine about no installer, they’d need to compile up such a binary or installer for every OS, for each unique distro.

          My point is not that it is impossible, but that to even gain much for everyone, it takes A LOT of extra work. The source code for Python, with build context included, is easier than most other options, and the people asking for more are entitled twats.

    • @[email protected]
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      81 year ago

      It’s not always that simple and I also don’t want to do the testing and support that requires. I’m not gonna set up a windows vm and 5 different Linux vms and get a Mac to build and test for every platform. If you want to use my software you’re welcome to do so but unless you’re paying me I don’t see why I should provide a service that is just a pain in the ass for me. Open sourcing the code alone is already a commitment that not everyone is willing to do as that requires documentation, issue tracking, community support and much more. I build stuff that I want to use and am interested in and as a thank you to the OSS community also share that work but that does not include end user support

    • @[email protected]
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      181 year ago

      It’s not actually all that easy, depending on the project. There are a million different ways to package a program to be installable. “Just make an EXE” for example doesn’t work very well as modern Windows won’t want to let you run it; and since computers are all different you need to bundle all potential dependencies in the EXE. If that’s not feasible then you’re back to picking an installation manager.

      As others have mentioned, in this case we’re talking about Python, so it’s easier for everybody to not do any of that. Using it is probably as easy as 1-install Python, 2-install dependencies (one command), 3-run the script. Making that into an EXE is possible but introduces way more complexity than is warranted.

    • @[email protected]
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      51 year ago

      Its just a python script, it takes 5 minutes to watch a youtube video to learn how to install python and run the script according to the readme instructions.

      Its not like the repo owner could just hit the magic compile button for an interpreted language to make it work or really needs too.

  • @[email protected]
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    1401 year ago

    STUPID FUCKING SMELLY NERDS

    I can kinda vibe with that. Worst I’ve ever seen was installation instructions posted in a Discord server.

    • @[email protected]
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      321 year ago

      i quit my CS degree 2 years in because these sorts of people are the absolute worst at empathizing with a problem and giving a clear and fair answer. the attitude is usually that if you’re asking at all, you didn’t try hard enough to figure it out yourself. how dare you make me do my job

      • @[email protected]
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        261 year ago

        I understand where your coming from but this example is awful because it’s literally git clone, pip install and you’re good to go.

      • Iapar
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        571 year ago

        If you give normies a solution they will bother you all the time. If you teach normies how to nerd they will leave you the fuck alone.

        • @[email protected]
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          151 year ago

          No they won’t. They’ll remember nothing other that the fact you know what they don’t, and bother you about everything.

      • @[email protected]
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        181 year ago

        how dare you make me do my job

        Ah yes, the open source dev “job” with it’s very lucrative paycheck of $0 lmfao

    • Album
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      121 year ago

      Jokes on you all the good software you’ve never heard of has obscure and hard to find instructions for a reason.

      • @[email protected]
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        21 year ago

        They also have crazy long config files. All but like two lines in the file will be the same for everyone.

        Except the program also is ignoring half the config file and is instead using hardcoded values.

        Oh and there are six different config files all in different directories. Why? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

  • Hailstorm8440
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    141 year ago

    Whenever I make an app I’ll hide the built exe in some random and obscure folder