gdb: Am I a joke to you?
Yes. It’s a surprisingly bad debugger the more you think about it. I use it largely in assembly and it loves to spit out random errors about memory it tried to access based on the current register state. The shortcuts are kind of dumb.
It certainly works but I wouldn’t call it a pleasure to use.
Ex: try
disp x/1i $eipoften just doesn’t work.I use gdb with great success for x64, rv64, and c:
info registers ripor just setup tui:# ~/.config/gdb/gdbinit: tui new-layout default regs 1 {-horizontal src 1 asm 1} 2 status 0 cmd 1 tui layout default tui enableI honestly vastly prefer using IDA and Windows specific tools (x64dbg) over gdb. IDA can interface with gdb so it can act as a frontend which can be handy for visualization.
Except the C++ “Core dumped” line is telling you it just wrote a file out with the full state of the program at the time of the crash, you can load it up and see where it crashed and then go and look at what every local variable was at the time of the crash.
Pretty sure you can even step backwards in time with a good debugger to find out exactly how you got to the state you’re currently in.
Where does it write the file
Nobody knows
Probably the same place as failed sudo reports
On a secret FBI server somewhere where they watch your failures and laugh
When you apply for a home loan or a passport:
“Unfortunately we will have to reject your application”
“Why?”
“We have received several reports of failed sudo attempts and segmentation faults”
tl;dw: writes to the path in
/proc/sys/kernel/core_patternIf you are using systemd, there’s a tool called coredumpctl.
I believe it’s
/var/lib/apport/coredumpon Ubuntu.imagine if it, like, told you this so you didn’t have to find out about it via a post on lemmy
imagine if it like, read that file and gave you a stack trace
gdb gives you waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more than a stack trace.
I love gdb! I recently had to do a debug and wow its so cool! On gentoo I can compile everything with symbols and source and can do a complete stack trace.
Am I the only one in this thread who uses VSCode + GDB together? The inspection panes and ability to breakpoint and hover over variables to drill down in them is just great, seems like everyone should set up their own c_cpp_properties.json && tasks.json files and give it a try.
…unless you build the executable with optimizations that remove the stack frame. Good luck debugging that sucker!
i mean you’re expected to know the basic functioning of the compiler when you use it
Imagine if you knew the most basic foundational features of the language you were using.
Next we’ll teach you about this neat thing called the compiler.
I’m not a C/C++ dev, but isn’t
apportUbuntu’s crash reporter? Why would dumps be going into there?Though on a rhetorical thought, I am aware of systemd’s
coredumptctlso perhaps its collecting dumps the same way systemd does.https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Apport
It intentionally acts as an intercept for such things, so that core dumps can be nicely packaged up and sent to maintainers in a GUI-friendly way so maintainers can get valuable debugging information even from non-tech-savvy users. If you’re running something on the terminal, it won’t be intercepted and the core dump will be put in the working directory of the binary, but if you executed it through the GUI it will.
Assuming, of course, you turn crash interception on- it’s off by default since it might contain sensitive info. Apport itself is always on and running to handle Ubuntu errors, but the crash interception needs enabled.
Ah I see, that’s actually pretty cool - thanks!
gdb ./fuck r whereyou should get a complete stack trace (complete with values of some function arguments)
Imagine unironically praising Java.
Java is good. Supporting Java legacy is bad
The one thing I can say about java; the kinds of people who like Java tend to really like Java. Everyone else just leaves them to it.
And the people hating on it somehow never used any version above 8, which is 10 years old and EOL.
Oh I’m firmly in the second camp. They can use whatever version they like, as long as I don’t have to go near it.
Same could be said about PHP
Having used PHP and Java extensively in my career, it’s always entertaining to read what people think about these languages.
I haven’t touched PHP since college, so about a decade, but back then I compared it to a very disorganized but well equipped toolbox. Everything you need to do your projects is there, but it’s scattered through 12 different unorganized drawers and cubbies, there’s an annoying mix of metric and imperial stuff, plus some random bits and bobs you inherited from your grandfather that you have no idea what they do.
I’ve used Java 21 pretty extensively, and it’s still comically bad compared to various alternatives, even apples-to-apples alternatives like C#. The only reason to use Java is that you’ve already been using Java.
it’s still comically bad compared to various alternatives, even apples-to-apples alternatives like C#.
I’d be interested to hear why. IMO Java has the superior ecosystem, runtime(s!), and community. The best part is that you don’t even HAVE to use java to access all this - you can just use kotlin, groovy, scala,… instead.
In terms of the language itself, while it (still) lacks some more modern language features, it has improved massively in that area as well, and they’re improving at a significant rate still. It also suffers from similar issues as PHP, where it has some old APIs that they don’t want to get rid of (yet?), but overall it’s a solid language.
Oh yes, let’s pick on the weak programming languages because haha funi
Java good
Opinion bad
All the ideas are good.
Only the ideas are good.
Java is a traditional and conservative language, which has its strong upsides, like the syntax being familiar to many people who haven’t used the language before. It’s a language that brought us the JVM, gave a job to many people and established fundamentals for other languages to inspire and improve on. If you don’t like Java, you can just use another language for the JVM, like Scala, Kotlin or Clojure.
and inspired C#, which is pretty rad! (humble opinion… preparing for downvotes because I don’t get the feeling lemmy is where M$ devs hang out)
Only a fool could miss the value C# has when used to solve the proper problems :)
Totally! Thanks 😊
You only named one upside, I can’t think of any other, and C-like syntax is pretty common, so it’s not much of an upside. It’s at least debatable whether the JVM is a good thing at all - the majority of languages get along perfectly well without it, and there’s no reason to believe the ones that do target it wouldn’t be doing just fine if it didn’t exist. It’s weird to say Java gave a job to anybody - the demand to have software written resulted in programmers being hired; if Java hadn’t been pushed on the market by Sun, it would have just been another language. Java didn’t establish any fundamentals at all, it just borrowed from other places. While all three of the other languages you mention are interesting, for sure, I’m not sure why somebody who doesn’t like Java should limit themselves to JVM languages.
Java is awesome. There ya go
Java: Not all poo poo.
This C++ message has an urgency vibes to it:
“Segmentation fault!! Drop the Nuclear Reactor quick!!”
Average C++ error
I know this is supposed to be humorous, but there’s a reason why these languages can, and are doing what they’re doing.
Core dumps are also worth learning about, they’re really helpful if you understand them.
Embedded C entered the chat
// I am responsible for every byte of this code and still don't know why this line breaks everything.Your loop had a race condition, so we let the smoke out for you.
Can’t believe that my code is racist smh
Ho hoo, that isn’t smoke, it’s steam, from the steamed rams we’re having! Mmm, steamed rams.
The guy is testing the result of malloc and you are complaining about how?
https://www.youtube.com/@TsodingDaily
If you’re a programmer, or think you might want to be one, I highly recommend this channel. He’s a savant at all sorts of low level things, quite funny and entertaining, and does a fantastic job of explaining what’s going on.
tsoding’s channel is one I look forward to watching every single day, never a dull moment in his streams/videos.
If you’re someone who likes to watch things live, his Twitch channel is available here.
he’s russian tho
Good gods, a long-form content creator! Will be checking this out later
C#: Time for a treasure hunt! Find the Null Reference Exception. Here’s a map. X marks the spot.
C# tells you the call site/method name and line number right at the top. It’s only really annoying when you have aggregate exceptions, which sometimes occur because someone async’d wrong
Actually getting there is the other part. It’s not like java where you can go down the chain if the problem isn’t where it says it is.
Nevermind that the C++ program is two orders of magnitude faster when completed.
I would love to learn and use Rust but I’m a embedded systems guy. Everything of consequence is C and C++.
If the embedded system is old or poorly-maintained enough, there might be more Rust than you’d think.
Rust seems pretty performant
https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/fastest/rust-gpp.html
I meant faster than Python, not faster than Rust. Rust is fast.
Ah. OK. Makes more sense.
There’s embedded rust for a few platforms. Using it on ESPs is fun
puts me in mind of the old guru meditation error messages that popped up in the stone knives and bearskins era of computing.
No bounds checking, only fast.
There is bounds checking, but it’s opt-in. I often enable it on debug builds.
This right here - C++ iirc is used mostly for microprocessor code in an industry setting, where EXTENSIVE testing is done so that bloated code doesn’t need to constantly check for programmer errors every single time, i.e. where execution speed is prioritized over programmer development time. And whenever that is not the case, well, as OP pointed out, other higher-level languages also exist (implication: to choose from).
I also currently use it for a new project since all needed 3rd party libraries are from a very specific domain and the project has a deadline, so writing and testing wrappers for Rust that would provide me with any meaningful advantages down the road are too costly to budget for before the deadline.
That could become part of a future refactoring, though.
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Lots of those in C# now, especially with Unity coming along like it did.
C++ iirc is used mostly for microprocessor code
lol no, it’s used almost everywhere where performance is important and people want(ed) OOP, from tiny projects to web browsers (Chrome, Firefox) to game engines (Unreal, CryEngine). Many of these are hugely complex and do encounter segfaults on a somewhat frequent basis.
Saying C++ is mostly used for embedded applications is like saying C# is mostly used for scripting games, i.e. it doesn’t nearly cover all the use cases.
higher-level languages also exist
This depends on your definition of “higher-level”, but many people would argue that C++ is on a similar level to Java or C# in terms of abstraction. The latter two do, however, have a garbage collector, which vastly simplifies memory management for the programmer(generally anyway).
Where’s rust?
Compilation: top row, runtime: button row.
Rust: this garbage code is beneath me, come back when you have your shit together.
Rust required you to fix all the errors before running the code.
Runtime errors are still a thing.
Compared to that trio, they are a rarity that make people excited just to spot one.
Runtime errors are rare? Interesting. I guess it depends on how much error handling the dev additionally wants to do.
I have a graphical application that crashes regularly when I switch between displays with Ctrl+alt+number. Something in the winit stack does not like it.
More like 100 lines of template errors
If only I could show segfaul stack tracetrough looped macros.
It breaks VSCode (it would be hilarious if I wasn’t the author of said macros).
At least you are getting a dump, count your blessings. Could be worse!
Just hook your app to a debugger and load the dump.
