How does it stack up against traditional package management and others like AUR and Nix?
My main problem with Flatpak is that it hands temporary /var/run/1000 file links to programs instead of real filenames. That would almost be bearable, if Flatpak also took responsibility for keeping those links from breaking sometime after your next reboot.
If I say “here is a path that an app is allowed to use”, flatpak should just allow an open() in there to work. It should not lie about the name of files in there. An app should be able to open a file there, remember that name, and count on being able to access it again in the future.
Other than that, Flatpaks are the bees knees. I love finding something I want to do, finding a solution in the flatpak store, and click-click I’m already doing shit. Finding Windows software is absolute garbage next to this.
Thats basically persistent portals. Would be possible if Distro portals had a button to give the app permanent (static) permission to that dir.
Would indeed be useful and not hard to implement. In the portal window just add a button “permanent” which does
flatpak override --filesystem=$PWD org.app.nameWant to open a discussion or Feature request for your desktops portal?
AUR is similar to flathub in that most packages aren’t thoroughly checked. Except for the packaging guidelines which usually have to be followed. I’m not sure how in depth nixpkgs or other distros check the source of packages of new maintainers.
Flatpak runs on all distros and supports sandboxing, which makes it a great addition to all distro repos. AUR can cause issues with dependencies and unmaintained packages, and the make file should be read since it’s run with root privileges. Additionally the AUR only works on Arch Linux. Breakage isn’t a risk with Nix and it’s seamless rollback, but has to be installed deeply into the system (
/nix)My personally preferred package manager for most GUI apps is flatpak. Nix is great because it allows to install packages declaratively.
Edit: NixOS -> Nix
Except on NixOS, where it’s possible to install packages declaratively.
Why only use nix on nixos?
You’re right. I’ve never tried installing a wm with Nix on another distro, but it should be possible.
Half of the packages on my system are debian, the other half is nix. It’s a really good combo, and home-manager makes it easy.
I click install, app launches and I don’t need to deal with dependency hell for it. (I like them)
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Ambivalent. I like the consistency between distros and the idea of sandboxing, in practice sandboxing is a pain in the ass and Flatpaks use up an inordinate amount of space for different library versions. However, if I have to use a proprietary application I do appreciate the sandboxing and Flatpak is my preferred install method.
I’m a bit “eh” on flatpak. The only benefit I see is that it’s sometimes more up-to-date than what I can get from an LTS package repository. As a heavy CLI user they force me to find and click icons which is irritating (yeah - I know about
flatpak run something.I.always.forgetbut that’s even worse somehow).I’ve hit occasional issues with applications being too locked-down. Like with Darktable only being able to see things in $HOME/Pictures. But I keep my photography work in a different location so it can’t see it. I had to jump through some odd hoops to fix that. Not a problem of flatpak itself per se but something you can expect when dealing with package makers.
I fall back on flatpak if the version available through the standard package manager is too out-of-date for my liking. Other than that I can’t be bothered.
EDIT: Okay - for people who think they’re being “helpful” by telling me that “aliases are a thing” just stop. I’m not going to workaround a broken system. I’m going to use another one that isn’t broken (or less broken).
Try this aliasing script I made
No idea if it still works lol, but should tbh. I think its even pretty well done.
- Lists your installed flatpak apps
- Searches for already added aliases
- Convert the appname to be the last part, remove
-_ - Alias to bash, fish, zsh
Only thing missing is handling duplicate apps I think.
If you’re going to use flatpak from the command line you’re definitely going to need to start aliasing those flatpak run commands. It’s still annoying, but at least that way it’s only annoying once.
No. I’ll use snaps before I start maintaining a bunch of aliases that I shouldn’t have to. It’s a flaw in flatpak.
No snaps are insecure on other distros that Ubuntu, as they are only isolated using apparmor. Also they are nonfree by design, just no.
They’re not insecure. No more so than when I install a package via apt. No more so than when I download some code and compile it. This is propaganda.
They are less secure than flatpaks and there was malware on that store
You think the unverified flatpaks which choose their own permissions are “safe”?
You have the option to add the verified subset only, and you can always check permissions before starting an installed app, and it will not start before.
Sandbox not working = insecure. Very simple
Indeed - if your understanding of “secure” is that simple then that definition works fine.
In the real world there is no such thing as “secure” and “insecure” - there are tradeoffs and levels of security.
Oh yeah for sure I’m just mentioning what it means in this context. Definitely means snap is more insecure off Ubuntu though.
Well okay. I agree that it’s a flaw in Flatpak, but if you think adding a single line to your .bashrc is some kind of unbearable burden that you shouldn’t have to endure and you’re willing to make your own experience far worse just to avoid it, then I think you’re being a bit silly. I mean, be as silly as you want. Don’t let me tell you what to do. You are being silly though.
if you think adding a single line to your .bashrc is some kind of unbearable burden that you shouldn’t have to endure and you’re willing to make your own experience far worse just to avoid it, then I think you’re being a bit silly.
I’m making my experience much better actually? Stop justifying flatpak’s flaws because you like flatpak. It’s flawed. Deal with it.
I don’t even like flatpak very much, I’m not currently using it at all, and I already agreed it was flawed right at the very start of the quote you cut off there. I was just trying to be helpful. Sorry. Won’t happen again. If you want to make things hard for yourself and no one else as a weird self-defeating protest then don’t let me stop you. Don’t pretend I didn’t do the thing I just did and you had to edit out of the quote though. That’s a real dick move, frankly.
If you want to make things hard for yourself
I’m sorry - but WTF? What part of me “doing something that is easier for me” also “making things hard for myself?” Talk about a “dick move”…
I prefer Flatpaks because it’s a nice easy way of getting software without the chance of broken or missing dependencies for a program.
Much better than Snaps, snaps is flatpaks but MUCH worse and slower.
Doesn’t work properly, apps are bigger and don’t always apply GTK themes. I also can’t easily edit the desktop file to edit the icons. I therefore only use it as a backup when I can’t find an app on the AUR or office repositories, which is very rare.
“Dont ask yourself if it works, but how it works”
For editing desktop entries, copy it fron this strange directory
~/.local/share/flatpak/exports/share/applications/to your normal~/.local/share/applicationswhich will always override the others.
A lot of people seem to complain about them, but I really like them. I’ve even started using them over the AUR for some things now. I like that they keep certain things like Steam a lot tidier, and I like being able to see and control permissions and settings for everything all in Flatseal. The main downside I guess is that they use up more space by downloading dependencies for each app individually which is kind of redundant, but for me I’ve got a pretty big SSD in my laptop so it’s never caused me any trouble. I could see how it could be a problem for someone with limited space on their system though.
Generally I tend to go Flatpak/AUR as a first choice, Appimage if I really need to, and Snaps never lol.
I love them. They make the immutable distributions possible.
We need to stop with the idea of shared libraries, it’s nice on the paper but in practice you only save a bit of disk space and it’s a pain for developers to package for different distributions.
Distribution packages are great for core components of the system, or utilities everyone needs, but for end users applications something like flatpak makes more sense. This way it can be packaged by the upstream developer for all distributions, and sandboxing adds a layer of security. You wouldn’t install an app that have all permissions on mobile, why do it on desktop?
It’s a decent packaging solution.
regarding the sandboxing, all the negatives are present with none of the benefits, wish they’d just rip that shit out
if you want to run software you don’t trust, firejail it or get it’s snap
Flatpak is very nice. Flathub is very nice. Flathub’s developer documentation is shit covered shit.
The problem with Flatpak is that for me I would only use it to sandbox propietary apps, and most of these are not officially supported, so there is almost always something broken, like screen sharing, etc.
They’re great on certain desktops, like Fedora’s Atomic Desktops, but you usually have to work around Flatpak specific issues. On NixOS there doesn’t seem to be a declarative way to install them.
I love flatpak. It makes it easier for Linux to become mainstream.
