My lower res, lower DPI display from my old Dell laptop looks much more sharp and crisp than the fancy pants Framework 13 high res display.
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768p
Yeah totally the customer’s fault for wanting a nice display in friggin 2024, certainly not the software’s which still has no proper support for it.
Exactly! All I want is a nice display in 2024—and Framework chooses a garbage display with known issues.
No, YOU chose the software with known issues.
Discord, Spotify and other electron applications will work fine in a browser. Rather than installing packages that are causing you issues just run them in Firefox.
It’s not a hardware issue but a combination of software issues.
You should just add
FREETYPE_PROPERTIES="cff:no-stem-darkening=0 autofitter:no-stem-darkening=0"as an environment variable, and use waylandIf youre not on debian stable and kde.
Why?
„Debian stable” – Unstable don’t use it
Something like that, yes. Especially on nvidia I think.
What does that do?
The environment variable enables stem darkening(a font rendering technique), and wayland is noticeably better at scaling
Everytime I think I know something about linux someone else comes along and starts speaking magic.
2K + KDE + Wayland works like a charm
Either the framework display sucks or there’s something wrong with their setup. I’m staring at a high-res display at 200% scaling and it looks great
Nothing to do with the hardware. It’s the lack of fractional scaling support and not knowing the workarounds
It has everything to do with the hardware. This specific piece of hardware is not as compatible as a regular DPI display.
These problems only exist because of this poor hardware choice on Framework’s part.
If they go from the resolution they used to native 4k, they waste a lot of battery life. If they go the other way, you have low res. I think they happened to pick within a golden DPI range. Not too high or low.
On KDE Wayland, I really don’t really see any blurriness issues. I’m not even on KDE 6 yet.
The irony is that my old “low res” laptop looks sharp and crisp while “high res” looks blurry. My old laptop doesn’t require me to give up my distro of choice (Arch btw), doesn’t require me to give up apps I like, and doesn’t require me to spend days applying workarounds that ultimately don’t even completely solve the problem.
why would high dpi rule out arch??
BECAUSE THERE’S NO EXE!!!
…?
I use Arch on a Framework 13 and 125% scaling in KDE. It works fine and I honestly forget that it’s not at 100% scale. The only big issue I’ve seen is when you have multiple monitors with different scaling, some applications can get a bit confused, especially if the edge of the window is touching the edge between two monitors with different scaling.
SIMP’ing to the max here. Sorry not sorry .
Just get Windows if you can’t manage the pitfalls of Linux
It’s the lack of fractional scaling support
200% isn’t fractional scaling, though
5k display and you’ll never have to deal with fractional pixels again.
Until I disabled my nVidia GPU and switched to Wayland the only problem I had with my HiDPI screen was with mixing in a low DPI display. That was easily solved by just running the HiDPI display at half the resolution. Now with Wayland even that problem is gone.
Do you even have blurry fonts with Wayland applications? There must be something wrong with your configuration.
Use KDE, especially Plasma 6. Hasn’t been an issue for me FW13 12Gen Intel since the last few Plasma 5 releases. I tried GNOME for a while but it can go pound sand.
How dare you use modern technology in current year?
Let me guess… You’re running an X.Org based WM/DE?
X11 Doesn’t support fractional scaling properly . So some DEs will simulate it by scaling the apps the same way you scale a rasterized image like a PNG or JPEG, and as a result everything looks blurry. You’ll generally also have the same issue with XWayland apps on a Wayland display.
The best way to combat this? Try to use Wayland native apps as much as possible.
2nd best? Use non fractional values for scaling (x1 or x2 instead of x1.25)
So some DEs will simulate it by scaling the apps the same way you scale a rasterized image like a PNG or JPEG
So in the end they DO fractional scaling
You can also adjust the x dpi with .xresources, but switching to wayland is the better solution
Doesn’t Gnome ignore dpi in .Xresources in favor of its own hardcoded dpi?
Probably, since GNOME is a poorly written piece of shit
Idk, I don’t use gnome
Let me guess… You’re running an X.Org based WM/DE?
Na, using Wayland with Gnome 45. 1.25x scale actually looks less blurry than 2x. (Putting aside that 2x is ridiculously large.)
The best way to combat this?
Is to buy a laptop with a regular DPI display and avoid this class of bugs altogether. This way I can keep using Discord and 1Password.
Is to buy a laptop with a regular DPI display and avoid this class of bugs altogether.
Yeah, never understood why people believe the image quality is better if it goes beyound their eye’s capabilities and they have to work around it.
Also kde is way better about this than gnome. Especially kde 6.
Discord is blurry because it’s an electron app, and electron isn’t native Wayland. You can make it work with
--enable-features=UseOzonePlatform --ozone-platform=waylandTIL
Interesting, if it’s a native Wayland app, I’d guess the issue is just gnome problems then - from what I hear gnome is one of the poorest DEs for Wayland use, mainly because they refuse to support things the same way that everyone else agrees to, if at all. And they take a fair amount longer to deliberate and agree how to implement anything they do decide to support.
I’d think of looking at KDE, which is very functional at this point, or a wlroots based Compositor/WM, - hyprland seems like one of the more well supported window managers out of the ones using wlroots.
Gnome was the first popular DE to have reasonable Wayland support and Fedora has switched to it by default for literal years now. I don’t know where you get your info from, that Gnome is “one of the poorest DEs for Wayland use”, but it certainly isn’t from me (and I’ve actually used Gnome on Wayland since before it was the default in Fedora Workstation).
I am using Gnome with Wayland and a 1440p display, and it seems to work surprisingly well. Or maybe I jut got used to dealing with the problems, and would be surprised at how well things work under a different DE.
Do you remember making any tweaks? I had Debian 12 with Gnome and could not figure out how to fix blurred fonts with 1440p display.
I’m on opensuse tumbleweed. It might just be that all the apps I use are Wayland. I’ll take a look when I’m back home, currently I’m on a trip visiting family.
Thanks!
Xwayland apps (running in legacy xorg) are extremely blurry under fractional scaling, native wayland apps can have worse rendering but not very noticeable.
The easiest way of checking if you have doubts is install xeyes and launch it. if xeyes follows the cursor inside the app you are tesing is in xwayland, if not is pure wayland.
Electron apps have to be configured to use wayland, whereas If you are in Debian check Firefox (ESR) is using wayland or install it through the offical deb repo of mozilla the latest. I think in the archwiki are the envronment variables to check.
And, for 125% maybe is just worth to you to just scale text to 1.20 using gnome-tweaks and leave it at 100% the scaling. It is not fancy, but it works. I have to use 150% so is too obvious/ugly to just scale the fonts…
Yeah I’ve heard that xwayland is not great. But I did not have any factorial scaling, just normal 100%, nevertheless I did test esr and the standard one, though the standard is definitely a flatpack. Also just the text on the settings window was blurry so I don’t think that was the issue.
2x being “ridiculously large” is the same as as 1080p display genius.
Try setting scaling back to 1x but then set font scaling to 1.25 using Gnome Tweaks. I’m running two 4k monitors this way and it’s as good as true scaling with no blur
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Man, I just installed debian 12 with wayland (Gnome or KDE can’t remember) to play around and get instant headache from blurry fonts with my 1440p display with no scaling (Firefox and settings window are blurry af). No clue how to fix it, tried out few of the things I found online and none of them works.
Next plan is to try another distro and hope for the best.
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Could be, I’ll try out something else (KDE probably) next time!
Just a shot in the dark, but have you logged out and back in at any point?
Some settings can’t be applied in a running session.Yeah and rebooted but it didn’t help. The settings window did state that some settings require reboot / relogging.
If I keep having the issue after reinstall I’ll make a new thread about it and maybe get some new ideas.
I was excited for the Framework 17 but the GPU in the addon module they’re offering at launch is rather pathetic, especially for the price. Maybe one day there’ll be other options but it’s really not compelling as a performance laptop.
LTT talked about this a while back… it’s because the GPU companies don’t want modular GPUs.
No issues with 4k on Fedora stock
I’m rawdogging my QHD on 14" at native resolution. 10pt font. Sue me
100% scaling on 14" 1440p looks fine to me. More screen real estate the better.
That reminds me that 1440p is probably the worst resolution on a laptop for me. 100%: everything too tiny. 200%: not enough space to fit everything. All in between tends to get blurry.
I’ll wait for a affordable 4k monitor that has the same features like my current one. And the old needs to fall apart first before I get a new one.
1440p is the perfect laptop resolution IMO. Significantly more real estate than 1080p without being high enough to require scaling. I have a 4K 17" laptop and 100% scaling is unusable there, but yet I have 1440p 13" and 14" laptops and can read 100% scaled text fine.
I also just got a 32" 4K monitor for my desktop and 100% scaling is fine on it. I have an older 28" 4K and 100% is readable but maybe a bit small.
You must have very good eyes.
I would but I’ll need to find a loupe to read the text of the lawsuit!
Been using KDE + HiDPI + X11 for close to 5 years now, not a blurry font to be found.
Works for me with a framework 12 on LMDE6 with plasma5/Wayland. I probably did some configuring and forgot.
