- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
This has happened once before and they reversed it. But they said this last time too:
The discussions that have happened in various threads on Lemmy make it very clear that removing the communites before we announced our intent to remove them is not the level of transparency the community expects, and that as stewards of this community we need to be extremely transparent before we do this again in the future as well as make sure that we get feedback around what the planned changes are, because lemmy.world is yours as much as it is ours.
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The question we should all be asking is why did the defederate?
Oh, noes! There’s only like a billion other instances you can access it from.
Can confirm, moved out of lemmy.world by this bullshit.
So start your own instance, with Blackjack and hookers?
As expected that’s the power of Lemmy!
Great thing about the fediverse is that you have options when admin/moderation actions occur that you don’t agree with. If Reddit were to remove /r/piracy then we’d have no recourse
Very true…as long as the federation of servers remains as it is now, but I’m increasingly worried it won’t.
I mean, yes, Dbzer0 still exists, and yes, you can access it from other instances, but Lemmy.world is the biggest one and users here being cut off from it from here will strangle the amount of activity it gets. Visibility is important for the health of other instances and their communities. There’s a good reason why alternative subreddits never outgrow the main ones.
There’s also a sentiment among some admins and some of the contributors to both Lemmy and the Sublinks project that feels like it runs counter to the premise of Lemmy as whole: an unwillingness commit to a truly shared space or adhere to a standard for what federation is supposed to mean. Instances are not only encouraged to do whatever, they’re being given more tools to. And that’s good for fighting spam, child porn, and malicious instances, but it doesn’t stop there.
I really hope an app or frontend comes along at some point that will seamlessly combine instance accounts and “fill in the blanks” created by instance admins so users can have a clear picture of Lemmy, regardless of the instance they’re on.
I mean, yes, Dbzer0 still exists, and yes, you can access it from other instances, but Lemmy.world is the biggest one and users here being cut off from it from here will strangle the amount of activity it gets. Visibility is important for the health of other instances and their communities. There’s a good reason why alternative subreddits never outgrow the main ones.
Yes and no. While it’s true that piracy might not get “drive-by” traffic from l.w. users, those users who become aware of it, or who want to access it will be forced to create an account elsewhere than l.w. which will also help with redistributing users to smaller instances.
When “reddit outside of reddit” does reddit things 🫨
When the people using a free service you’re not obligated to provide try and shame you for not taking on multimillion dollar legal departments.
The communities they banned are only for the discussion of piracy(whick is legal). There are no copyrighted material hosted in any of them.
It doesn’t matter if they’re blessed by the Pope himself. The people who run the instance get to decide what moves through it.
Yes, and I can voice my dissatisfaction with it. I’m not sure what your point is other than trying to tell me to shut up in a more verbose way.
To be fair, Rudd is just a hobbyist who runs .world in his spare time. If he’s getting legal pressure, he’s probably going to cover his ass. He’s not a company with a legal dept. He’s a guy with a family and a day job.
Another problem is .world part of US-centric instance
The benefit is that it isn’t just another reddit but rather network of reddits
Banned on one? Get from another.
I’m referring specifically to lemmy.world, not to all of lemmy or even the fediverse.
Spin up a piracy instance on a server in China or Russia and be done with it.
The communities that were blocked were not on the Lemmy.world instance.
Ah i missread then. My bad.
A good way to get roskompozor on your back thought 👀.
Roskompozor?
They are busy blocking localhost
A Russian word play around Roskomnadzor, i.e. The Federal Service for Supervision of Communications, Information Technology and Mass Media, an agency responsible, among other things, for censoring media and blocking access to Internet resources, as well as proceeding with criminal allegations on illegal content.
Pozor (Позор) means “shame”.
Russia or EU
IIRC they banned [email protected] months ago. Not sure why it pops up again in the modlog. It was the reason I left lemmy.world.
I believe they reversed course on that ban. It’s just recently that they reverse reversed that course.
Does removing mean defederate?
No. Every community is hosted by a server, just as every user account is. Removing a community is similar to banning a user.
So it just means that lemmy.world users can no longer see that specific community, right?
yep.
No, it means the community no longer functions and most posts to it aren’t available on other servers either. You can view some remnants of it on other servers, but I’m not sure what will happen if you try to post to them.
It’s the other way around, you linked another community. The correct community, visible from SJW: https://sh.itjust.works/c/[email protected]
Hi there! Looks like you linked to a Lemmy community using a URL instead of its name, which doesn’t work well for people on different instances. Try fixing it like this: [email protected]
No that’s not correct because the community they banned was not on their instance.
All this does is prevent Lemmy.World users from using or seeing the community. Everyone else is unaffected.
I misunderstood which community was being discussed. You’re correct.
- A server banning a community it hosts effectively destroys that community
- A server banning a community it does not host makes that server’s users unable to interact with it
That’s very similar to banning a user.
Did they really do it again, fucking hell. I came here for a better experience then Reddit and I feel like it’s starting to be a worse experience then Reddit. Transparency from admin my ass.
Feel free to join any other instance from that list: https://github.com/maltfield/awesome-lemmy-instances?tab=readme-ov-file
You can export and import your settings (including subscriptions and block lists) in two clicks from your account settings.
Yeah looks like I’ll have to.
…if your metric is admin transparency, how the hell do you figure that Lemmy is worse than Reddit…?
I feel like Lemmy falls short in a lot of ways but transparency is not one of them
Transparency is there in the sense that the modlog makes clear that a lemmy.world admin blocked the community. If it were Reddit we’d never know how, just that it is blocked.
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I’m aware of this broken promise. My comment is speaking specifically on a limited technical basis when comparing it to Reddit, which is what I mean by “in a sense”. I hope this clarifies it for you.
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That’s weird, I haven’t seen u/spez around here lately.
Reddit was great for at least 5-10 years, the main issue that caused everyone to leave was that it became corporatized and had to start making a profit. That can literally never happen on Lemmy, because it’s free and decentralized. So yes, Lemmy is special and insulated from corporate abuse. If you can’t understand the value of that, you may as well go back to reddit.
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It’s not free of corporatist behaviour though, especially on the large instances. This is a classic example. I guess at least people can vote with their feet, and still stay on the fediverse.
*than *than
…you can just change instances. World did this before and I that’s how I ended up on this account/instance.
.ml is terrible. They actively ban people who aren’t tankies. Reasonable discussion is not allowed there. If there is one instance that should be defederated it is .ml
I’m not a tankie, and I haven’t been banned.
You sure you’re not confused with lemmygrad?
Yes I know a lot of people on .ml are not tankies but .ml admin is repeatedly banning anti tankie discussion. See my other comment above. Look at the modlogs and you’ll find people being banned for critical thinking. I blocked the instance because Lemmy <> lemmy.ml . The code can always be forked.
User accounts can be migrated to new instances with version 19
>They actively ban people who aren’t tankies.
this seems unlikely.
I’ve seen multiple posts from people who were banned from .ml and I looked at the removed comments and modlog myself, and people are being banned for even mild general discussion of topics debating the legitimacy of totalitarian communist policy.
You’ve hit the nail on the head. The Lemmy experience is quickly beginning to sour. They’ve received an influx of trolls and I’ve run into a few moderators now that seem to be taking harsh actions. Maybe Lemmy isn’t for me after all.
Feel free to join any other instance from that list: https://github.com/maltfield/awesome-lemmy-instances?tab=readme-ov-file
You can export and import your settings (including subscriptions and block lists) in two clicks from your account settings.
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“People disagree with me! I must be right because they’re uhhhh triggered! Yeah!”
Conservative-ass viewpoint
yep I got downvoted, as expected. More proof. What’s a surprise. Just like Reddit
Where have I heard it before? If my memory serves me right, it was very popular cope on another discussion platform. What a surprise. Just like Reddit.
“dOwNvoTeS pROvE mE rIgHt”
did you think you’re going to get a hero’s welcome?
Maybe you guys are getting downvoted for conflating Lemmy on the fediverse as a whole with Lemmy.World.
These actions don’t affect anyone not on Lemmy.world, assuming db0 federates with you, !piracy is still there for you
Hey it’s a free world. You’re welcome to migrate to a different instance. Heck why not run your own? That’s the power of the fediverse. Or just head back to Reddit.
The thing is, this actually if anything proves the strength of the fediverse. Lemmy.world is not Lemmy and Lemmy is not the fediverse. Just find another instance that has not blocked the community yet and carry on with your day.
Lemmy.world have every right to curate the experience for their users as they see fit and/or feel comfortable carrying the risk for.
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Stop crying about it and just join a new instance, pretty simple.
I did that the last time and moved here ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Better management, no censorship, better uptimes and quicker upgrades, no need to look back (I moved “momentarily”).
quicker upgrades
That’s an important one, especially with how long it took LW to upgrade. I completely get why it’s more challenging for them due to their number of users, but that could be an argument for enthusiastic users to move elsewhere.
Here being where exactly?
I think “here” being the instance their account is on, https://lemm.ee
Yep :)
I forgot some apps or frontends might not show up instance names next to usernames.
Yeah that. And I say it as someone who, on a good day, will go on philosophical rambles about how piracy is in fact the moral thing to do.
Do people just not get that this is the entire point of a decentralized system?
Hop accounts, you lil’ bitch. Don’t sit in one server complaining about the owner of that server when you have a billion options.
And if your priority is the piracy community? Make the server that hosts that your homeserver.
Or just have more than one account and use an app instead of the default webpage.
It’s not rocket science. People’s brains are poisoned by centralization. Back in my day everything was its own separate forum with its own separate account and to be honest, it was miles better like that.
The problem with this is that it isn’t really decentralized equally. Lemmy.world has most of the users and getting defederated from them is essentially a death sentence in terms of content and engagement.
I think it’s a good idea to make new accounts on other instances, I plan to but without a proper amount of people, lemmy.world is working the same way reddit did.
Hopefully this will drive people to switch to another instance, and the issue you mentions will be less present.
The problem with this is that it isn’t really decentralized equally. Lemmy.world has most of the users and getting defederated from them is essentially a death sentence in terms of content and engagement.
Self-resolving issue here. If people hop away from LW due to LW making decisions they don’t like, LW will cease being the one-go-to-place for stuff. Which is good, it shouldn’t be. No one instance should be “the main instance”. The right way to use federation is each person & community should make their home at a place where they vibe just right with the fed admins. It’s even good for LW itself as it reduces the burden on its server and the workload for its admins.
Also also – Defederation is a far more nuanced thing than just “is block”. There is more than one tool that can be used by an ActivityPub admin.
If LW defederates from your home instance – You can still manually follow communities that are in LW AND interact with them (unless the admins go out of their way to ALSO block USERS from your home instance), as “defederated from the instance” just removes it from the global timeline/global community search.
What happened here, though, wasn’t defederation, it was a block, and a block on two specific communities, which outright prevents viewing & interacting with content from those communities from within LW. Which brings me to: LW’s block on the piracy communities from dbzer0 doesn’t stop LW users from interacting with dbzer0 as a whole. Or vice-versa. Only with stuff from the piracy coms.
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You… Got a refund on a donation? Wow…
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If I may ask, why still use .world then?
Great question, see when instances have management level disagreements like this there really isn’t any purpose to using their communities from a remote account.
Unlike a lot of people who “migrated” I realize it ultimately doesn’t make a difference using these communities from a remote server because they are controlled by this one and ultimately will be affected by defederations and bans. So I only migrated my non-lemmy.world subscriptions to the other instance accounts and left the local ones on this account.
Reddit syndrome still affects a lot of users here, who view having multiple accounts on different answers as an inconvenience instead of a feature of the platform design. The irony is that tons of users on Reddit had lots of accounts without batting an eye, but that extra step of having to lick a new instance is just SO complicated.
It’s a major inconvenience and I’ll stick to one. If it can’t be accessed from Lemmy.world it’s not really my problem tbh and I’ll just act like it doesn’t exist.
I’ve never noticed any defederation from my instance or drama aside from the main posts talking about it, and if you came here interested in a piracy community it’s good for that, lemmy.dbzer0.com. “Lemmy.World” seems to be where all the drama happens hah. I have only ever made one account, interact with several different instances without issue. I agree using several accounts would be annoying.
It is an inconvenience. Having to track which account can view which communities, with all the drama and defederation happening each week isn’t easy.
Indeed. There are lots of proposals for perfectly portable decentralized user identities, subscriptions that transcend specific instances, and whatnot, but until those things actually arrive that’s not the Fediverse we’re dealing with. It’s a hassle having to switch instances.
Centralized Reddit brain poison tbh.
Your password manager will keep track of your credentials. If you have THAT MUCH trouble keeping track of which communities are on which server, stick to local communities.
Back in the day we had everything be its own separate forum and no one died from that. You’re just lazy.
Nice bait dude.
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Picking a better instance for your main is most advisable. Users can accept that the primary benefit of a free and open source federated service can also sometimes inconvenience them, or they cannot. Complaining about the core mechanic of the technology that literally cannot change is silly IMO. Corporate owned centralization leads to enshittification. Your account age indicates that you know that first hand.
A lot of people are saying “just connect to another instance”, but it would be nice if the client could connect to multiple instances at once, and merge things internally, maybe even spreading the load a bit.
Probably a bit tricky for the web and linking, but maybe something for the mobile apps to consider?
Ideally the only time I’d need to swap accounts is to post.
How would you deal with votes? That’s a pretty common action, and having to choose every time would be tedious
You could list your accounts in priority, and the highest account that has access to the post you’re reading will be responsible for the vote.
Just choose default in the app
Just have it default to one of them. A simple priority order, preferring an account on the host instance I guess.
Same for commenting, and posting. You wouldn’t have to select another account unless you really wanted to.
Considering how well voting has turned out in general, maybe the voting system is the issue.
You know, I don’t even disagree with you. Voting really doesn’t bring any good to the table, it only creates some sort of hive mind mentality
Plus it allows users to anonymously express disdain towards somebody, not just to their comment or opinion but them personally I’ve seen this happen on Reddit where people were mass downvoted for seemingly no reason other than being openly trans/queer.
It only gets worse when you use that as a reputation system for restricting users because then it’s a social credit system.
Agree. I moved to an instance without downvotes for this reason.
and warframe!
EDIT: dbzer0 had nothing to do with this ban, it was done by a Lemmy.World admin.
I updated my post after another user stated that it wasn’t lemmy.world admins that performed the ban but the db0 team that did. I can’t say with certainty that’s actually the case since the modlog is pretty opaque and I don’t have full knowledge of how [federated] actions are propagated & displayed.I (incorrectly?) assumed since those communities had existed for so long on the dbzer0 instance they had at least tacit approval from the admins there and were in communication with them enough that a full ban wouldn’t occur – when I saw the removal in the modlog I didn’t even consider that possibility.Sorry for kicking up drama here if the Lemmy.World team had no part in this :(Here is the modlog: https://lemmy.world/modlog?page=1&actionType=ModRemoveCommunity
Seems to have been made by a mod from LW indeed
Sigh… if “indirectly linking” is prohibited then literally the entire web breaks.
When you check the mod logs and filter by mod you can see that it came from Mr. Kaplan which is a lemmy.world admin.
So yes it was a lemmy.world decision. The question is whether or not this admin was a lone actor.
This is why you don’t sign up with the biggest possible instances, eventually they will become the biggest possible bottleneck in a network. Anything dot world admins do will affect all of their users, that shouldn’t be surprising 🤷
As for dbzer0, this might affect users in the short term but eventually people will figure out how to access the sub from more friendly instances.
What a bunch of fucking clowns.
Anyways… [email protected]
That returns an error.
Is there another instance you’d recommend?
Try this link: lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/piracy
Hi there! Looks like you linked to a Lemmy community using a URL instead of its name, which doesn’t work well for people on different instances. Try fixing it like this: [email protected]
Heartbreaking - AI Is Starting To Take The Jobs Of People Who Make Unhelpful Corrections On The Internet
genious!!!
I can see it just fine. ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ
Making a new account isn’t difficult; I chose my instance specifically because I wanted access to that particular community.
Which instance do you recommend?
I mean, dbzer0 is the one I actively use, so that one. It’s an anarchist instance, it’s the one that hosts the community, and I happen to align with the prevelant way of thinking, which made the decision fairly easy.
