So by blocking apps we’ll be more like China? Great point!
It’s not being more like China. It’s treating them the way they treat us. Simple reciprocity. The same thing is often done when other countries level a tariff against our products.
It’s not being more like China. It’s treating them the way they treat us.
So…acting like China acts is not being like China?
The same thing is often done
Did nobody ever teach you that two wrongs don’t make a right? Or about the Appeal To Tradition logical fallacy?
when other countries level a tariff against our products.
Which rock were you living under when Trump waged his stupid tariff war with China? Nothing good came from that bullshit, least of all for the working class people of both countries.
It’s not “being like China” so long as the U.S. does not seek to ban platforms from countries that do not ban U.S.-owned platforms.
The freedom of information should absolutely be bilateral between states, otherwise the permissive state cedes undue influence to the restrictive one.
Again, Tiktok ≠ China.
While it can certainly be argued that its ties to the government are problematic, it’s not Tiktok banning US platforms.
If Tiktok WAS banning platforms for xenophobic reasons (demonstrating intolerance), banning it for that would be prudent as per the paradox of tolerance linked above.
That isn’t the case, though. The US ban is an intolerant and oppressive violation of the freedom of expression of the users of Tiktok and, yes, even the owners.
Even if the oppressive Chinese government has a big influence on the platform, that influence hasn’t been proven to cause Tiktok to behave in an intolerant manner, so it’s basically a case of declaring guilt by association.
The US government could and SHOULD introduce regulations to minimize the amount of data collection and -sharing that Tiktok, Facebook, Twitter, Google and others currently get away with and then punish all transgressions against those regulations.
AKA regulate and punish bad behavior from anyone doing it, not banning a popular platform guilty only of what congress refuses to try to stop them and others from doing.
Again, Tiktok ≠ China.
Point to where I said TikTok = China lmao
it’s not Tiktok banning US platforms.
I also never said TikTok is banning U.S. platforms, either…
The US government could and SHOULD introduce regulations to minimize the amount of data collection and -sharing that Tiktok, Facebook, Twitter, Google and others currently get away with and then punish all transgressions against those regulations.
Yes.
Point to where I said TikTok = China lmao
I also never said TikTok is banning U.S. platforms
What you DID say was that it’s ok to ban Tiktok because of the actions of China, namely the banning of some American platforms. That would only make any kind of legal sense if Tiktok indeed WAS China.
Dude, what?
You claim that banning TikTok would make sense if TikTok was China. How would the U.S. “ban” China if not for banning Chinese private enterprises from U.S. markets?
That doesn’t apply here since Tiktok isn’t being intolerant. The Chinese and US governments are.
An eye for an eye leaves the world blind
Except blocking an app is also a treatment of your own citizens.
What kind of brainwashed supporter can you be to say such thing? This is about freedom of speach and right of property, the things supposedly sacred in the USA.
USA is merely demonstrating its hypocrisy here.
Don’t forget China blocks tiktok too.
IIRC China tried to stir up its internet users about the US blocking Tiktok and it fell flat because it’s blocked for them too.
China doesn’t block Douyin
I believe they use a different backend/storage. Different content shows up depending if you are searching from Tiktok or Douyin. Perhaps someone from Bytedance is curating select content from Tiktok for Douyin.
Either way, if I put a video on Tiktok it does not mean Chinese users on Douyin will see it.
https://chinasocialmedia.net/tiktok-and-douyin-are-not-the-same/
I don’t understand why you guys are trying to educate me on how Bytedance operates. It’s the same as how Weixin and WeChat work. China wants to moderate and curate Douyin but you guys still expect China not to get involved in Tik Tok. Sure it’s content is different but it’s literally the same thing with the same backdoor accessibility. Anyone that argues ‘bit China do good seeeeee’ is obviously masking their love for the red boot flavor.
Hilariously, you can interpret what I said in two ways:
-
China do good by blocking kid access
-
China do bad by limiting kid exposure internally while letting tik Tok run amok internationally
I’m of the latter camp, personally.
What I don’t understand is the sentiment that China would want to let Tik Tok run amok but drills down on Douyin. All while at the same time they say “see China doesn’t allow Tik Tok either, it’s nothing like their child friendly great alternative Douyin”.
China allows TikTok to run amok to do damage. Why would they want to do damage in their own country? Of course they would restrict it there.
I think we are on the same page here
-
Ooh… i dont think the tankies will like this!
Its hilarious the instance the tankies most frequent is banned in china
Tankies like a lot of evil shit, so I really don’t care about what they like or don’t like.
Oh no anyway
China also blocks tiktok
Pooh_tapping_head.jpg
They blocked Douyin? That’s news to me
It’s not the same platform. Douyin has a different, separate database of content. Even though they share the same idea of how the app should function, they are disjoint social media platforms.
Doesnt china have its own specific version?
More like, tiktok is our specific version
Douyin is what China has. That came first, then the parent company developed tiktok for release outside of china.
Then they bought Musical.ly, merged it with tiktok, and that became the modern version of the appMusical.ly, the pedophile platform?
The what? Lol
Yeah.
My self hosted DNS does all of that banning too. But that’s just my little quality of life thing (and whatever little that does fighting the global data overlords).
The fine line between “I don’t want to do the thing” and “I don’t want you to be able to do the thing”.
Yes.
But it’s a blurred lines between having to do something or being pressured or heavily encouraged to do something (otherwise you are left out of an important social system).
I’m totally agreeing with you, just adding that sometimes infrastructure matters (as it gives little choice to population) & can be especially bad if there is a single entity behind it with it’s own agenda not aligned with users interests (eg for profit companies, or in this case I guess geopolitical stuff too).
I love these winnie pooh memes
deleted by creator
Huh, interesting. Thanks for that.
ETA: I realized I was unclear. I’m thanking the user for giving me such a clear reason to block them. It’s not always so cut and dry.
deleted by creator
Defederating from lemmy.ml? What a loss!
No way, only China and Russia (THE BAD GUYS) spy while the US is innocent and unaware of even how to spy because it’s the GOOD GUY.
deleted by creator
yes, because its being done for different reasons with different results.
I hate tiktok
but all these talks about keeping children off phones is restricting the flow of information to a point that it scares me. we have Enciclopedias in our pockets ffs.
if the bar kids from easily accessing the internet, they’re effectively blocking 2mil people (14-17) from instant access to information. (I did some sleep deprived math, dont @me if its off)
Well it should come as no surprise the dictionary is in one of the most recent pushes for book bans in Florida
I’m thinking of downloading Wikipedia for my kids to use offline. Apparently it’s around 300gb, so I’ll probably do it on work’s wifi one day.
Lol yeah its far smaller without the pictures - I think closer to 50GB? Not sure though you’d have to check, but much better than 300GB.
Sweet!
As far as I know, there’s no legislation being talked about to keep kids off their phones, or even social media. This is more of a concern about China having unfettered access to user data at the drop of a hat, which I can absolutely agree is an issue. Though I don’t know that current legislation is the solution.
That said, kids absolutely do need to spend more time off their phone than they do. We’ve seen legitimate issues arise from perpetual phone use. The issue is… you can’t really legislate that. It’s parents that need to get their heads out of the sand and actually parent.
If they actually cared about that, they would legislate data privacy laws that keep our data from being sold on the open market. As it is now, everyone from the FBI to your local cops, to the RNC to Chinese or Saudi companies can pay cash for user data. This legislation is largely protectionism for our own domestic surveillance capitalism industry.
Absolutely agreed, but that’s something republicans would never vote for. This is something that actually has a chance to be implemented.
Baby steps are better than no steps.
A fine example yet again why a two party system is so bad.
So China is fascist because it bans your tools. Now you ban china’s tools. What do you think this means?
Yes, it means you’re fascist too.
Ah yes, the classic definition of fascism, the banning of tools.
The expropriation of tools of communication, with the aim of controlling them…
Do you think the U.S. controls Zuckerberg or Pichai or Musk?
They have no way to get to those companies either.
Ah yes, the classic other definition of fascism. Governmental control or restriction over communication software.
LoL. I am a fascist guy. I might kill you. But u are very peaceful guy. U should not attack me while defending yourself
china blocked tiktok first
Not Douyin
They’re technically not banning tiktok, they’re banning China from owning tiktok
They’re functionally forcing the sale of the company to a US Firm at fire sale prices.
Yeah, you are right. They should do like they do in China, sell to a JV with a local company at fire sales price… Oh wait
sell to a JV with a local company at fire sales price
The Chinese policy is to share ownership with locals, so that a firm isn’t simply extracting wealth from the Chinese market.
The American policy is to seize a pre-existing firm after it has developed, by accusing its Singapore founder of being a secret Chinese Communist.
They’re not going to sell though. The US only makes up a single-digit % of their users.
“TikTok” is an American Company. Their owners, ByteDance, also own a nearly identical product in china called 抖音 (Douyin). The Chinese version is much more closely operated by the military, their offices are literally military owned buildings and lots.
The USA is the biggest single market
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/tiktok-users-by-country
Nothing I said is incorrect.
Didn’t disagree with you
Then you agree that they’re not going to sell? What does being the largest single market have to do with this? Fucking make a point, dude.
Bruh have a beer and calm tf down
Calm the fuck down dude, jesus christ. Go touch grass
Still not a point 👍
Then you have no point? They’re not going to sell their money machine because a tiny fraction of it went away.
Then you agree that they’re not going to sell? What does being the largest single market have to do with this? Fucking make a point, dude.
How much of their ad revenue comes from America though?
Do you have a source for that?
This seems to claim the most users are from the U.S.
China doesn’t use the same product. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1299807/number-of-monthly-unique-tiktok-users/
Your source is fine 👍
Yours says that ~90% of their users are not from the US.
Despite the US being Tiktoks largest single-country user base they still only make up a sliver of their monthly-active users.
So just over 4% of the worlds population is making up 10% of the usage. I suppose the owners shouldn’t care about that sliver of the users. They should care more about the smaller slivers, got it.
Tiktok is one of the largest social media apps on earth, they’re not selling it over a sliver. Why does it matter how much bigger the sliver is than the other ones? Are you stupid?
Yes
Me too
This is primarily intended as a hostile buyout of tiktok. It has literally nothing to do with China.
Lmao, the USA doesn’t operate the commercial sector outside of power, trains, rockets, and planes. It won’t benefit from the sale in any way other than lowering Chinese involvement.
The US government works for the billionaires that run the economy. Many billionaires want to buy tiktok. In fact, there’s already teams of people set up for buying out tiktok. The government is just the tool for the hostile acquisition. No one said the US government is directly purchasing tiktok.
The US Government and Billionaires are opposing forces, one political party wants to tax billionaires while the other is on the payroll.
They’re not at all opposing forces. Some billionaires are in competition with each other and political parties are tools at certain billionaires disposal.
The act of taxing income is but one political mechanism used to influence the power of some billionaires over another.
So which of these shadow government billionaires is pro-government in your eyes?
I’m not sure I understand your question. They are both pro-government. If any one human could be the personification of government, it would be the President of the United States.
Which is somehow even worse : it’s like only the USA is allowed to spy on everyone!
They can still spy, but why would we make it easier for them?
It will be just as easy for them, just less profitable. Now they’ll just pay Zuckerberg or Musk for the information. If they aren’t already.
So you don’t ridiculise your country by promoting freedom of trade but seizing the assets of the countries you don’t like when it’s a better tech than yours.
I’m not with my government on a lot of things they do. I want the same data rights and restrictions to apply to all companies that host people’s personal information.
But what’s this about Impressive tech? Tiktoc? First that’s laughable, even more laughable is how you phrase is as if anyone would give a fuck if another country had some better tech. Sounds like you are projecting your own insecurities.
You can’t be ridiculed if you feel no shame.
our most and least popular politician is a sex predator who earned all his money by his dad dying and is currently at risk of losing his money because he can’t stop lying about things.
The greatest monument to american shamelessness is Donald J Trump.
And it’s not like they can’t maintain use of the thing while not being owners. Come on. Like there’s some magic rule if a company’s not owned by China, it can’t be used as a Chinese intelligence source? Come on.
If social media is in cahoots with foreign intelligence, there are better ways to handle it in my opinion.
The fact that China is using disinformation to stop the forced sale of TikTok is pretty telling that they will be negatively impacted by this.
Or that they’re willing to expend energy to get us to think that.
Every superpower spies on their citizens. Every single one.
Well, do you want to be like China in that regard?
Yes clearly the way you know you are always doing the morally correct thing is to sink to the level of the everyone else.
And by everyone else you mean one country known for authoritarian censorship
What I meant was a general operating principle, not to take a side in a pissing match.
The standard is good behavior, not other people. Pointing out that X country is doing something wrong does not mean every country gets to do that wrong thing. The alternative to this viewpoint is one where we are effectively or actually extinct from an escalating cycles of violence and a race to the moral bottom.
See I thought you meant the exact opposite and thought “damn that’s dumb, that person is being dumb, I should be snarky”
No worries, should have been more clear. Have a good day.
USA is not banning tiktok, it’s banning china’s ownership of tiktok. If Chinese stake is sold to someone else, tiktok will remain.
Oh look… the liberals are at it again.
Your whataboutism doesn’t change the fact that the west’s claims of valuing “press freedom” turning out to be completely false posits severe implications for your ideology, liberal - not anyone’s living in China.
You’re not communicating your point very well. Do you mean like neoliberal liberal or like fox news liberals?
neoliberal liberal or like fox news liberals?
Is there a functional difference?
Doesn’t fox refer to anyone to the left of the American center as liberal? I’m not super versed but I was thinking it wouldn’t make sense to call socialists, neoliberals, and communists all liberals and I def don’t think fox is being that specific
Doesn’t fox refer to anyone to the left of the American center as liberal?
Yes, they do… but this doesn’t change the fact that Fox itself peddles liberalism - ie, capitalism. That is, when it’s not peddling outright fascism - liberalism’s status quo-sustaining alter-ego.
I was thinking it wouldn’t make sense to call socialists
No, it doesn’t make sense to call people such as socialists - who want to dismantle all aspects of liberalism (and with it, fascism) - “liberals.”
He’s on lemmy. He def means “non-tankies”
“non-tankies”
Perhaps it’s best not to use terms you don’t understand, liberal.
😂 okay buddy.
Alright fuck it, I’ll ask: what do you think tankie means?
And more-importantly, what did you actually mean? lol
Like the other guy said, authoritarian communists.
Or authoritarian communists pretending not to be. The type of people to come out and defend everything China and Russia do while decrying “the west” at every opportunity. Constantly at it with “what aboutisms” and other bad faith arguments. People who claim we should vote third party/not vote while pretending they want to make the US better through these actions, when really they just want the US to fail. Jackson Hinkle types or Infra Haz types.
If I recall correctly, tankies are named because tanks were used to put down protests in Czechoslovakia under the USSR and tankies will defend it.
Interesting. I looked at the urban dictionary definition, which was super helpful from a historical perspective (people that support sending in the tanks). But appreciate the straightforward answer. Thanks!
Not sure why people were offended by my comment. Maybe I could’ve worded the question better. It’s weird if people expect others to know this super obscure shit no one ever really talks about anywhere else.
It’s very simple. “Authoritarian Communists”
Tankie is a pejorative label generally applied to authoritarian communists, especially those who support acts of repression by such regimes or their allies.
The term “tankie” was originally used by dissident Marxist–Leninists to describe members of the Communist Party of Great Britain (CPGB) who followed the party line of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union (CPSU). Specifically, it was used to distinguish party members who spoke out in defense of the Soviet use of tanks to crush the Hungarian Revolution of 1956 and the 1968 Prague Spring uprising, or who more broadly adhered to pro-Soviet positions.
deleted by creator
Sorry, I must be the dumbest person who ever tried to be a leftist.
So the first guy criticized libs (seems like the answer is fox news type libs) and then I asked him to clarify and another person replied saying he means not-tankies (so leftists that aren’t neolibs/or just communists maybe?). At that point the first guy replies saying he knows what tankie means and that the other guy actually doesn’t. That’s when I replied again.
Now it seems like you (and voters) are saying the guy that replied to me was in fact correct in his usage meaning she didn’t guy’s actually a tankienor maybe a conservative? I get lost there. Surely the first guy isn’t an authoritarian communist. Like what? Someone help!
I just want to communicate with other political junkies and nerds that want to fight capitalism… someday, somebow.
China isn’t a good country either. I don’t get why your so excited to back people up who commit genocide.
Also is banning TikTok really preventing freedom of the press? They are beholden to the Chinese government and used to suppress talk about the Uighyur cultural genocide.
How about we instead replace it with something like Lemmy but for video?
China isn’t a good country either.
China never claimed to have a “free press.”
Also is banning TikTok really preventing freedom of the press?
What (alleged) “freedom of the press”? This (supposed) “freedom of the press” is a cornerstone of liberal ideology - not whatever it is that China is doing.
Again… the realization that liberal ideology is full of holes (and always have been) has implications for liberals - not people living in the PRC.
