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I don’t like Biden either, but anyone with half a brain knows there are two choices in the 2020 election. If we had a sane voting system, voting third party might be worth it, but as it stands, no one but you knows your favorite candidate exists and unless you want to become their campaign manager that will still be true in November. Even if you did, and even if you convinced two thirds of the people who would otherwise have voted for Biden to vote for your chosen candidate instead, Trump would still win because half the country voted for him and your guy only got a third. If you vote third party you might as well stay home.
Not voting isn’t going to stop the genocide in Gaza. The US will continue to funnel them arms no matter which candidate wins this November. Trump practically campaigns on how much he hates the Jews and he’s publicly told Israel to “finish up their war”. He’ll also make life a living hell for anyone who isn’t a straight cisgender male back here at home.
A vote for a candidate is not an endorsement of them or their policies, it’s a statement that you like their policies more than the other guy’s, and “sticking it to liberals” and “refusing to support genocide” (that’s not what voting for Biden is doing, by the way – a vote for either candidate is a vote for genocide and a vote for neither is an endorsement of both) is not more important than keeping the furthest right politician America has ever seen out of office.
How incredibly privileged do you have to be to see an entire national election as what will happen in the Middle East and ignore Trump’s campaign promises to wipe transgender Americans off the map, and further, to not realize that the same thing will happen in the Middle East regardless of which candidate wins?
I hate Biden as much as every other leftist here. But I’ll still vote for him because Trump is worse. If there’s a single bone in your body that cares about the lives of your trans friends you will too.
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I worry what will happen if Trump wins or loses. If he wins, it will be terrible. If he loses, he will claim he won again and he will try another insurrection, but harder.
you guys just dont want to get it do you?
i dont care about making you feel better with your right wing democrat. go actually do something about trump if you care so much.
I’m not okay with either of them having a second term right now.
Hard pass there, votes are earned, and Biden has given us thousands of reasons why we shouldnt vote for him and none as to why.
So! Much!! This!!!
I agree with you but can we please leave “This!” behind us?
Point taken. Reddit habits die hard.
I refuse to make a choice between trash, garbage and shit. /S
P.s.: we need a hard reset of everything
If i’m being realistic with myself the reason I won’t vote is because it’s futile. The USA like to give you the illusion of choice and “Democracy” while at the same time having the most undemocratic two-party system any civilized nation can have. Going through the process of voting for either a genocider or a fascist is a waste of my time, and that time can be spent playing another game of league or whatever, at least I’ll have some fun. America won’t change because of my vote, or any of your votes. America will change because of coordinated, collective action from unions and when people decide to eat the rich.
And i’d even argue that refusing to vote IS democratic and not necessarily evil. Biden committed a genocide, he needs to feel the consequences of a disinterested and conflicted democratic base.
I think we should stop rationalizing and proselytizing the act of voting. Choosing to vote for red, green or blue, or not choosing to vote at all, is a personal decision. Rationalizing it won’t do anyone any favors, and demonizing people that don’t vote or don’t vote for your personal candidate because it doesn’t fit in your ideology just makes you a bigot.
People need to understand that it’s possible to vote against genocide.
No, it doesn’t matter that he’s an active participant in the apparatus that’s creating the genocide, because if he’s in office there’s less genocide. Which is the important part, and pretending otherwise is sophistry. If you abstain from voting, you are increasing the likelihood of more genocide and if you discourage others from voting, you are an active participant in the overall social apparatus that is probabilistically increasing the amount of genocide.
The utility calculation is dead simple: more votes for Biden in key states makes more genocide less likely, and discouraging people from voting for Biden makes more genocide more likely. Therefore, discouraging people from voting for Biden is a pro-genocide strategy and voting for Biden in battleground states is an anti-genocide strategy. I live in a solid blue state, so I reserve the right to vote third party, but I will also encourage other people to vote for Biden.
You should vote for Biden unless you live in a solid blue state, and even then it’s not a bad idea.
Edit: grammar correction
The endgame of your utility calculation is genocidal. 30 years from now, I suspect you’ll still be blasting this “vote blue no matter who” nonsense when the choice is between a dem supporting 5 genocides and a repub supporting 10 genocides. You’ve been anchor biased hard as fuck.
In your hypothetical 30 years in the future scenario, this would still be a “more genocide” and “less genocide” pick. We should never have genocide but there’s no way to express that in the US binary voting system, so the choice would have to be tactical.
What do you propose instead?
I’m a transhumanist; my endgame is the abolition of all hardships including involuntary death. I want as many as possible among the those alive today to experience the universe beyond the fading of the last stellar remnants. That means clawing and fighting in every way I can and know how to allow as many people alive now to continue living. That means less genocide is better than more genocide, which in turn means that the immediate goal is making a Biden victory as likely as possible as I prepare more long-term projects. The long-term projects eliminate genocide. The Short term projects mitigate genocide. More successful short term projects increases the likelihood of more successful long-term projects.
In short: it is incredibly small-minded, presumptuous, and uncharitable of you to assume that I think voting is the only part of this massive game. Fuck off.
Let’s suppose there are going to be genocides, what’s better, 5 or 10?
Thank you for defining anchor bias in such a succinct comment.
Thanks for not answering a very simple question.
What’s your plan that makes the endgame not genocidal? Remember to make it fit reality.
You say “make it fit reality”, but why do I feel like what you really mean is “make sure it does not at all challenge US hegemony”.
If your ecocidal political project whose institutions were devised a blink ago by 30 year old slavers starts going genocidal, your project has lost the right to exist. To put it plainly, I think we all have a duty to start thinking about what dismantling the genocidal US empire would look like: reading marx, getting armed, building networks, embracing anti-capitalism, and preparing for this country’s undeniably inevitable backslide into fascism.
reading marx, getting armed, building networks, embracing anti-capitalism, and preparing for this country’s undeniably inevitable backslide into fascism.
Voting Biden doesn’t prevent you from doing this, you know. Rather, it would probably make it easier.
Wow how edgy. I don’t like either candidate so I’ll protest-stay-home. As if not voting is a form of protest.
Actually I’m legitimately curious. Where did that idea come from? Where did you get the idea that voting = endorsement.
If you were stranded in the wilderness and your options were to eat bug1 or bug2, would you choose to starve to death because “well, I just don’t want people to think that I enjoy eating cockroach”. Get over yourself and your childish mindset. Choosing not to participate is still making a choice.
Maybe when the maga fanatics come for your lgbt+ friends and family you’ll think differently. Or maybe not. I don’t know you or how comfortable you are with the maga end-game.
Even if you’re in a solid blue state, vote for Biden. Because you don’t know if it’s your vote that pushes your state over that line.
I think your stance on the issue is entirely reasonable.
Why dont you pressure Biden to stop genociding people then? I have a hard and fast rule about genocide, sorry but present day me doesn’t make the rules about who I vote for.
Do you believe Trump/Republicans will decrease, maintain, or increase the current genocide levels?
I mean Biden spent more on the immigrant wall than Trump, so prob less genocide somehow, seeing as how there is precedent. Funny how none of the presidents tackle the corporation side of the “immigrant problem” by going after people hiring the undocumented if that is such a big problem. You remove the incentive that would slow it down more than trying to torture people at the border no?
Let us not forget how much Trump hates environmental regulation. He will auction off America’s treasures for whoever sticks enough money in his pocket. Biden has done a pretty decent job of maintaining the old guard mentality of preservation and conservation (as imperfect as that may be).
I wish more people cared about the environment.
Do I hate the two party system? Yes. Do I hate the fact that centrists like Joe Liberman who literally killed universal healthcare in the US are revered and embraced by Biden’s party? Yes. Do I hate the fact that Democrats are always dismissive of liberal ideas and often act like complete jackasses and can’t admit that when Obama was running there were a ton of Clinton supporters that didn’t vote for Obama in a blatant act of pure hypocrisy? Yes.
Do I fucking hate Nazis and Fascist? Fuck yes.
Hence why even if I don’t like the Democrat running, I’ll vote for them and honestly, Biden isn’t too sucktastic. Except for kyrsten sinema, she can fuck right the hell off forever.
Do I hate everything going on in this country? Yes. Do I still keep voting to have the same shit happen over and over? Yes.
I mean if you want to vote in a bunch of fucking Nazis and fascists just for some change , well feel fucking free to do so, I’m just going to consider you stupid and a Nazi.
democrats are fascist.
Okay they Billy Madison.
this doesnt change the truth of what i said
Sure. Very nice truthiness there Billy.
this is an appeal to ridicule. it is not a rebuttal
not literally everything that’s bad is fascist
I hate how so many critics talk about they when criticising a political party. Get involved. Run for local office, become a part of the inside of the party. How can Democrats ever represent younger leftists, when so few of the younger leftists let their voice be heard outside of anonymous forums?
Yeah lemme get like $2,000,000 so I can go run for office.
All so a bunch of white Boomers can show up and vote against you for being “too radical”.
Campaigns don’t tend to be self-funded.
Hey are you involved in your political party? Have you run for local office?
You aren’t also being a hypocrite by telling other people to get involved while not doing it yourself right?
Do I hate the fact that centrists like Joe Liberman who literally killed universal healthcare in the US are revered and embraced by Biden’s party?
Joe Biden explicitly said he would veto any legislation involving universal healthcare. You oppose universal healthcare, but you’re hiding behind the spectre of “centrists”.
And again, as a minority in America, I would take Biden over a Nazi any day. Doesn’t mean I love him to death and would take him into my arms and give him a reach around but fuck anyone who would vote for a Nazi.
The party needs to start trying to win apathetic voters over if they’re as terrified as they claim to be of trump, not just spout vague platitudes, push out the most bare bones minimum viable policy possible and then shrug when it gets dismembered in committee.
If I am an American voting in the election I wouldn’t have voted for either Hillary or Trump in 2016 but I will definitely vote for Biden then and now.
Hillary is full of baggage which is too many to ignore. Trump, in my view at the time, isn’t a fascist but a fascist-adjacent and I thought his presence sets a dangerous precedence. After the first four years, that proved correct. He became drunk with power and became a full blown fascist.
Biden definitely is a better choice in any elections against Trump. He has less baggage and still did surprisingly well that is favourable with the left.
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Liberals would rather blame leftists than actually fight fascism.
