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I don’t like Biden either, but anyone with half a brain knows there are two choices in the 2020 election. If we had a sane voting system, voting third party might be worth it, but as it stands, no one but you knows your favorite candidate exists and unless you want to become their campaign manager that will still be true in November. Even if you did, and even if you convinced two thirds of the people who would otherwise have voted for Biden to vote for your chosen candidate instead, Trump would still win because half the country voted for him and your guy only got a third. If you vote third party you might as well stay home.
Not voting isn’t going to stop the genocide in Gaza. The US will continue to funnel them arms no matter which candidate wins this November. Trump practically campaigns on how much he hates the Jews and he’s publicly told Israel to “finish up their war”. He’ll also make life a living hell for anyone who isn’t a straight cisgender male back here at home.
A vote for a candidate is not an endorsement of them or their policies, it’s a statement that you like their policies more than the other guy’s, and “sticking it to liberals” and “refusing to support genocide” (that’s not what voting for Biden is doing, by the way – a vote for either candidate is a vote for genocide and a vote for neither is an endorsement of both) is not more important than keeping the furthest right politician America has ever seen out of office.
How incredibly privileged do you have to be to see an entire national election as what will happen in the Middle East and ignore Trump’s campaign promises to wipe transgender Americans off the map, and further, to not realize that the same thing will happen in the Middle East regardless of which candidate wins?
I hate Biden as much as every other leftist here. But I’ll still vote for him because Trump is worse. If there’s a single bone in your body that cares about the lives of your trans friends you will too.
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This will be the most important election in the history of the united states. You have two choices, Dictator, or Democracy. A no vote is a vote AGAINST Democracy.
Who to vote for. Tweedledum or Tweedledee?
If the Democrats want left-wing votes they should appeal to left-wing voters rather than just take them for granted. The reality is that there’s little difference between Biden and Trump. Just two sides of the same old corporatist coin.
Indeed, you’ve spelled it out plainly: there is no vote option to end the U.S. funding of Israel’s genocide in Gaza.
I can either make a vote that won’t end it, or I can make a vote that won’t end it (and may actually make it worse, as you alluded) and will also lead to significant negative consequences for many groups of people here.
If there’s a single bone in your body that cares about the lives of your trans friends you will too.
Not just trans, but homosexual, non-white, non-religious, women.
If I reply with STOP will these “please vote” memes go away? Because I’m gonna vote the way everybody wants me to and they’re almost as annoying as the texts I get from the DNC.
Let’s be real, this isn’t about people not voting anymore.
Those of us who have resolved to vote Biden despite much of our displeasure towards the handling of Israel/Gaze were going to do so anyways. You won’t convince those who have decided not to vote this way either.
Screaming at people to vote will not make them want to vote. Worst case scenario you piss them off enough that the spite vote against you. People aren’t puppets for you to control by telling them what’s in their bests interests and demanding they follow through. You have to work with them in a pleasant manner if you genuinely want to convince them.
But again, I don’t think this is about people not voting anymore. Some people are genuinely unhappy that others are unhappy with their options for candidates. So many people on the moderate left can’t be satisfied with the fact that they have such a firm grip on intelligent voters who understand the status quo. It’s not enough for them to know that our options are bleak and that we have to vote for someone supporting genocide, versus letting someone who would openly participate in genocide get in office. You genuinely want us to shut up and stop complaining and to stop criticizing the current administration.
Also, the amount of people I’ve seen discuss implementing mandatory voting as if it wasn’t a trait of an authoritarian government is insane. Maybe if our voting process had more options it wouldn’t be authoritarian, but as it stands now making voting mandatory would be little more than coercion.
It’s a good time to not be American and not having voting for one of those pricks on your conscience
Jill Stein and Cornel fucking West are also on the ballot.
I’ve had “leftists” here on lemmy act like Stein and West are legitimate candidates. She hasn’t gotten any traction any other time she’s run and I’m not sure why this time would be any different.
If you can get on enough ballots to win, you’re a legitimate candidate.
I agree, unfortunately .036% isn’t a winning percentage.
The traction she got in 2016 is the reason we’re having this conversation.
Oh, I was having the conversation because of her failed run in 2012.
It’s a bad time to not be an American because that country holds far too much sway over the rest of the world and you can’t even help picking the lesser poison.
You seem mad at ME because THEY don’t give enough of a shit
I’ve been saying it for MONTHS. If they run biden they WILL lose.
I do not WANT them to lose, I am just informing you of the outcome babe.
Why dont you pressure Biden to stop genociding people then? I have a hard and fast rule about genocide, sorry but present day me doesn’t make the rules about who I vote for.
Do you believe Trump/Republicans will decrease, maintain, or increase the current genocide levels?
I mean Biden spent more on the immigrant wall than Trump, so prob less genocide somehow, seeing as how there is precedent. Funny how none of the presidents tackle the corporation side of the “immigrant problem” by going after people hiring the undocumented if that is such a big problem. You remove the incentive that would slow it down more than trying to torture people at the border no?
Yo you kids can’t behave, I will look this now, it’s Easter and I don’t want to have this burning here
There aren’t many people that call themselves leftist and elections are won for Democrats by getting disinterested voters to the polls.
This meme is trash and serves no purpose other than dividing people. Anyone worried about Biden to losing this election should hope he changes strategies and starts motivating voters like he did 2020.
I understand their frustrations given how Biden was brazenly treating Israel until lately (almost like he realized there was an election going on).
No.
I will never vote for Joe Biden again.
If anyone reading wants some apolitical food for thought: your average “no-to-Joe” leftist has a straightforward “I won’t vote for genocidares” explanation. The liberals opposite them have a wall of text about game theory and harm reduction.
🤔
The thing is, the game theorists aren’t wrong. If you want to vote your feelings, that’s your right. It’s exactly what the ~1/3 of Trump supports are doing.
And much like them, you aren’t even required to understand the consequences of your actions to do so! (Assuming you’re privileged enough to never have to face them, of course)
For the game theorists to not be wrong, endorsing a genocide has to also not be wrong.
And they’re bottling tf out of the votes too
The DNC has had more than 6 months to pivot off Biden, out deserve anything that’s coming to you
Well I’m glad you live in a fantasy world where your abstinence doesn’t have real world impact that is demonstrably worse, specifically in regards to the very genocide to which you refer, but unfortunately the rest of us live in the real world where sometimes we have to evaluate the weight of ideological purity vs real world harm impact.
it’s a little disingenuous to call not supporting a genocide ideological purity.
i mean, i guess it’s a technically correct categorization, but the people who dont have that particular ideological purity are nazis, so…
i don’t plan to abstain though. PSL is lookin good for president.
Pumpkin Spice Latte ain’t winning a thing. That’s exactly as good as not voting, which benefits republicans every time.
how do you figure that?
i cast a vote for party for socialism and liberation and it gets counted for that party. thats not at all the same as not voting. that vote doesn’t get counted for the republican party so it doesn’t benefit them.
Voting isn’t a chess game. I just vote to my ideals. I hope more people do, because it’s the only way things will ever change, sans revolution.
Voting isn’t a chess game.
It very much is. Especially if one of the options might result in never having to vote again.
What, are liberals not willing to fight (physically) to get their democracy back from a dictatorship?
Eh, my country has its experience with the “dude is a little bit loony but we’ll manage him” approach. Led to a bit of restructuring, first of the German government, then of the entire continent of Europe.
Seeing how you guys have nukes and all that, I’d prefer you wouldn’t try to verify our results.
Or maybe Americans would be more successful than the Hotel Kaiserhof in Berlin was.
Are you? If so, give me a place and date! I’ll be right there!
If not, then shut the fuck up!
You sound like a cop.
Lol, yeah I’m going to organize an armed rebellion against a country that can shoot me in the chest with a fucking rocket covered in swords from the other side of the world while I’m chilling on my deck with my family.
Just put on a red hat and you’ll be fine.
Worked for the average German in the 1930s-40s
Saying “if I don’t get my way entirely I’m taking the ball and going home” is the opposite of how progress happens.
And as a follow-up, aside from voting, what other real on-the-grounds steps have you taken to progress or legitimize real leftism in America?
Who says I’m left?
Sorry, I just assumed you were decent
I’m fairly moderate, and extremely moderate for a Lemmy user.
I’m sure you’re decent, even though you try to make fun of me for having a distinct political ideology that doesn’t conform to the leftist internet hivemind.
Most of my biggest priorities are left leaning, but outside the scope of common discourse. Such as independence from Chinese rare earth elements, prohibiting child marriage, and banning cigarettes and tobacco.
I don’t subscribe to any specific version of ideology, I merely think leftist mentality is the foregone conclusion of reasoned thinking amongst decent people.
If you think I’m using “leftist” in the tribalist way popular online and not as colloquial shorthand, you are mistaken.
Trump is your man all the way!
nah, i’m not planning on voting for trump.
Your vote or non-vote is just effectively counted for trump. Fly the Maga flag proudly!
Are votes for Libertarians votes for Biden? Is that how it works?
Yeah. Last election, I campaigned hard for Jo Jorgensen and Spike Cohen, then I voted for Biden. It was an effective strategy to siphon off the pedophile and racist-but-likes-weed votes away from Trump. A vote for a non-viable third party is just as effective as voting against the real candidate that most closely aligns with your views.
Why not try to actually educate others, rather than manipulate them?
Why not both? That is not my only strategy in life. I educate those willing to learn and I manipulate those trying to intentionally harm humanity.
Your vote or non-vote is just effectively counted for trump. Fly the Maga flag proudly!
How childish. Get your head out of your own ass please.
excited to hear a feddit poster explain how refusing to endorse a genocide is childish 🍿
let me guess, good liberal democrat voters are just following orders, right?
What’s childish is not acknowledging the 2 facts that
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Trump will make the genocide worse. Abstaining from a UN security council vote is a pretty flaccid response, but it’s the most any US President has done since since Israel’s inception.
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The US President has responsibilities and influence beyond whatever Israel is doing. Biden losing increases the chance of a 2nd genocide in Ukraine and potentially an expanding war in Europe. That’s not even mentioning how much worse things are gonna get here for anyone who isn’t a cishet white man.
Your thinking is no different than all the women who kept voting on the single issue of overturning Roe and are now shocked they have to carry dead fetuses to term or be charged with a crime.
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“My argument is simpler than my opponent’s, therefore it is correct”
The point of examining the straightforward morals of not supporting genocide in opposition to the convoluted justifications people put forward as reasons to vote blue no matter who was not to say that the simplest reasoning is correct, but to shine some light on the assumptions, misunderstandings and vast overvaluation of an individuals voting impact that underpin that argument.
You have to build a fucking mind palace to not just look at the two major parties, say “no thanks, I’m a human being with a soul and heart that feels” and walk away. That’s the point.
I do not know how to tell you that not voting will not make neither candidate win.
At no point have I suggested that people abstain, although it’s better not to vote than to perpetuate either of the two major parties.
And how do you propose doing that?
Idk what you mean or are asking…
Not perpetuate either of the major parties. How do we do that, if not by abstaining?
You’re just trying to get anti-Trump people to not vote so Trump can win. Anyone with half a brain knows that Joe Biden didn’t do a genocide.
If I wanted trump to win I’d tell people to vote for trump.
“Their answer is long and nuanced, while mine is short, simple, and makes me feel good about myself. Therefore I’m correct.”
So! Much!! This!!!
I agree with you but can we please leave “This!” behind us?
Point taken. Reddit habits die hard.
Do I hate the two party system? Yes. Do I hate the fact that centrists like Joe Liberman who literally killed universal healthcare in the US are revered and embraced by Biden’s party? Yes. Do I hate the fact that Democrats are always dismissive of liberal ideas and often act like complete jackasses and can’t admit that when Obama was running there were a ton of Clinton supporters that didn’t vote for Obama in a blatant act of pure hypocrisy? Yes.
Do I fucking hate Nazis and Fascist? Fuck yes.
Hence why even if I don’t like the Democrat running, I’ll vote for them and honestly, Biden isn’t too sucktastic. Except for kyrsten sinema, she can fuck right the hell off forever.
democrats are fascist.
Okay they Billy Madison.
this doesnt change the truth of what i said
Sure. Very nice truthiness there Billy.
this is an appeal to ridicule. it is not a rebuttal
not literally everything that’s bad is fascist
Do I hate the fact that centrists like Joe Liberman who literally killed universal healthcare in the US are revered and embraced by Biden’s party?
Joe Biden explicitly said he would veto any legislation involving universal healthcare. You oppose universal healthcare, but you’re hiding behind the spectre of “centrists”.
And again, as a minority in America, I would take Biden over a Nazi any day. Doesn’t mean I love him to death and would take him into my arms and give him a reach around but fuck anyone who would vote for a Nazi.
Do I hate everything going on in this country? Yes. Do I still keep voting to have the same shit happen over and over? Yes.
I mean if you want to vote in a bunch of fucking Nazis and fascists just for some change , well feel fucking free to do so, I’m just going to consider you stupid and a Nazi.
I hate how so many critics talk about they when criticising a political party. Get involved. Run for local office, become a part of the inside of the party. How can Democrats ever represent younger leftists, when so few of the younger leftists let their voice be heard outside of anonymous forums?
Yeah lemme get like $2,000,000 so I can go run for office.
Campaigns don’t tend to be self-funded.
All so a bunch of white Boomers can show up and vote against you for being “too radical”.
Hey are you involved in your political party? Have you run for local office?
You aren’t also being a hypocrite by telling other people to get involved while not doing it yourself right?
The party needs to start trying to win apathetic voters over if they’re as terrified as they claim to be of trump, not just spout vague platitudes, push out the most bare bones minimum viable policy possible and then shrug when it gets dismembered in committee.
