Of course people should vote where it’s working. The argument on the federal level is that it’s not working. It’s not harm reduction because the federal Democrats are too cowardly or too compromised to enforce protective laws and the Constitution as evidenced by reality.
It’s really “relative” harm reduction because conservatives are literally trying to conduct harm amplification
Only it’s still not. The Democrats aren’t willing to stop the state level Republicans. So they can just do whatever they want. The GOP would need to win the Senate and Presidency in addition to holding the House to make it actually worse. And at that point it’s mathematically unlikely the Democrats would have held the presidency anyways.
They aren’t doing anything? I recall some student loan forgiveness that happened recently that sure as hell wouldn’t have happened under a republican. I dislike Biden too, but he is doing some things. Say it’s not as much as we’d like, but stop spreading the bullshit nothing is happening.
Also, the Biden administration is enforcing anti-trust laws like we haven’t seen in decades, which I’d say is a pretty massive step. Sure, yeah, not far enough yet but it’s a step.
Biden has forgiven about $150 billion in student loan debt, has passed some big economic reforms which led to wealth inequality falling for the first time in quite a long time, wages at the bottom 10% of wage earners are going up faster than inflation even under fairly historic levels of inflation, his climate bill put the US on track for a 40% reduction in greenhouse gas emissions by 2030, and he’s been raising corporate taxes by quite a lot in order to pay for all that stuff. Given how unified most of the US government is against things like that happening it’s actually fairly impressive.
There’s some other stuff but those are the big ones I’m aware of. It’s just that the news media doesn’t have any reason to report on that type of boring progress stuff, and actually has a couple of big reasons not to report it in favor of some other more titillating types of stories.
That’s cool. I notice your taking credit for state minimum wage laws now. And they’re already talking about pushing back the climate change stuff.
But none of that is what I was mentioning. What is he doing to protect women and minorities from the conservatives coming after them? He doesn’t have to be hands off. The 14th is incorporated against the states and Presidents have used that in the past. Or have we just given up and decided we can have climate change as long as it’s evangelical Christian climate change?
I’m just gonna sit in quiet contemplation of how you’ve managed to make it sound halfway sensible “Yes, Biden’s done some substantive good things even though the majority of the rest of the government is against those things, but they’ve been too effective at making sure he can’t do more, so I oppose him.”
Please explain how either of those protect people from Christian Nationalists criminalizing them and destroying their medical infrastructure?
The only people who can really do anything about that on a federal level are congress, not the president. Democrats don’t control congress though. Even if they did, the federal government has limits to what they can do to control states. People need to vote in local elections for that stuff. Local elections influence your life far more than federal.
You are opposed to voting for democrats because they aren’t doing something that isn’t possible. Yeah, you definitely hold a well reasoned position that people should listen to.
Oh the president can, and has. Even to extremes, or am I the only one who remembers learning about the 101st Infantry Division escorting students?
That was applying the constitution’s rules on equality (as ruled by the Supreme Court of the United States). The executive can use its power to enforce laws, but it can’t use its power to create new laws. That is the purview of congress. Once congress creates the laws then the president is in a position to enforce them, but not before then.
You might want to learn about the civics and workings of the US if you’re an American. Most of it isn’t that complicated.
Stop? How would federal Democrats do anything to state Republicans?
Enforce the Constitution against them. Reform SCOTUS by appointing more judges. (In the past even this threat was enough to bring SCOTUS around) We have rights and it’s blindingly apparent the Democrats aren’t willing to do more to protect them than ask the people violating them to stop in a polite manner.
And that’s on the issues they claim to care about. On other things they are actively causing harm.
Oh so just change the entire framework of how states interact with the federal government. Cool.
I’m all for the adjustments you mentioned, but it’s unreasonable to suggest all that is possible in one term, right now, based on this vote.
It’s gonna take years of building legitimate progressive candidates, That’s where the work is. It also comes from downticket mandate. Republicans are gobbling up every small posting, seen and unseen, and use that to drive policy and action.
The 14th amendment enforces the Constitution against the states. Has done since the civil rights era. This isn’t anything new. In fact Biden’s inaction is the new thing.
Some of those who work forces are the same who burn crosses: many that advocate for not voting from a “progressive” point of view are actually the ones who wouldn’t be in power if you did. They think it’s hilarious when we don’t vote, and they love it.
“I don’t think poor minorities who are tired of picking ‘the least evil option’ exist.”
Well you can kindly go fuck yourself.
Valid emotions behind a stupid decision don’t make it less stupid.
Thanks. Suddenly I want to support your candidate. The scales have fallen from my eyes. You have enlightened me. I’m forever grateful. How could I not have realized that the decision was “stupid”? I needed no rationalization or evidence, just a person thinking I’m stupid on the internet!
I hear you and want to be on your side during the revolution. I just don’t want a revolution. Conditions are bad right now but violent revolt is a coin flip. The people who will suffer most are the most vulnerable. The children that witness it will suffer for it their entire lives. If we did win, the only faint glimmer of hope will be future generations don’t squander it like their fathers and their fathers fathers and their fathers fathers fathers…
I’m sorry my compassion cripples me from making the extreme but arguably understandable choice of uprising.
We both know you would never suffer having your dumbass opinions changed, you have too much tied up in this. It’s why you’re being so emotional. Maybe you should take a break and go outside.
Relax my friend. Derision is all they know how to use. They were yelled at by MSM until they bought it, and now they want you to see it too. But this is the only way they can speak. Talking down at you with nebulous and broad truthy statements is all they know how to do. Nuance and questioning their faith cannot sweat them, for now derision and arrogance is their “love language”.
So sure, it makes me frustrated too, but have pity not anger, if you can. It’s not like they know any different.
Things are not great in the US (and worldwide). But I always get pushback when I encourage people to vote and remind them that this is not North Korea or Russia, your vote still actually matters! Whoever you are, you can help prevent your country’s slide into fascism…
your vote still actually matters
What do you mean? How does a vote matter?
When… it is accurately counted and applied? That should be a low bar, but dictators in the aforementioned countries regularly win with more than 100% of the total vote percentage.
When… it is accurately counted and applied?
I don’t follow. How does a vote being accurately counted mean that it matters?
applied
Not sure what you mean by this.
I can explain it to you, I can’t understand it for you.
I can explain it to you
Please do?
Bot, troll, whatever: blocked.
Hah you’re doing the thing
Tell me you’re not a woman in Arizona who has an ectopic pregnancy, without telling me etc
I have no idea what you’re talking about.
There’s an image which explains what I’m talking about
It is somewhere
It’s very near
If you search, I think you will be able to locate it. Don’t give up
Still have no idea what you’re talking about.
And yet, you’re such a genius at political science that you’ve got essential insights on how voting works that the rest of us aren’t privy to. It is a mystery.
Killing in the name of
I wonder how many get this reference.
Yep
I used to be alarmed that people were being taken in by this stuff, but I now think the overwhelming majority of people saying it are just shill accounts. For a couple of different reasons, I think the percentage that are actual human accounts that sincerely believe it is extremely small.
I notice they’ve pivoted to just general nihilism about the US economy and the state of things as of a few weeks ago – I think they might have concluded, as I did, that expressing this type of viewpoint and doing such a bad job of it and getting unanimously yelled at in the comments was actually having the opposite effect, highlighting to people how important it is to vote and how it absolutely makes a difference.
Thank you for your perspective. It’s nice to know that you think I couldn’t possibly be a real human being just because I’m a financially impoverished minority in these United States and sick of being told that I need to vote for someone else’s option time and again because it’s the best possible option. Every time the leftist majority makes a decision I want, they don’t look for concessions to bring me in. They just beat me over the head with fearmongering.
If you want voters, appeal to them. I’m not responsible for the message put out by the party not convincing me.
Did you miss the primaries? There’s more than just the president, you know.
What an unhelpful comment.
“I’m in this Class Project. The whole class is in on it and every time we do a class project half the class tells me that I have to agree with them or else the other half decides how to do the project. I try telling them I will agree with them if they’re open to concessions to me. They just yell harder and threaten that it will be all my fault if I don’t agree with them.”
“Have you tried participating in Group Projects?”
Your waiting for concessions reminds me of Martin Niemoller’s “First they came for”. You’re waiting for specific focus on your needs, but in the meantime by abstaining from the process you are enabling others suffering.
You sound politically self-centered. It’s fair to feel that way. But perhaps you should participate so that you can sway the process towards a side that is attempting the opposite of harm.
You could work to better the world you live in with the tools at your disposal (voting, for the lesser of two evils). If you don’t, then you only have yourself to blame when no one helps you.
Did it my entire political existence. I’m the one that wasn’t helped. This is your party having no one to blame but themselves for how this is turning out at this point.
So your life would be better if every time you voted the other politician won? That seems crazy.
You could join an organization of people trying to fix the system for you and people like you. You’d probably find quite a lot of common cause with the people there, if the Democratic establishment is too worker-hostile for you even in its Bidenized form (which I could understand).
Thank you for the resource. I’ll look into it!
Yah dude. The disillusionment with the current US governmental and economic system, I get that. It makes sense to me.
Is the economy okay when everyone knows their costs are close to double what they were five years ago? Like that you lost a vote (however small the margin) literally shows your view is unpopular. But please keep hoping you know and want better for people without doing the work and ignoring the will of people.
What do you suppose trump will do to help you?
Different user, but it’s obvious to anyone who’s been paying attention that he will just give more tax breaks to the rich and corporations. The wealth divide will grow even further.
And Trump will further destroy protections that Americans rely on.
Most pollution sources in the U.S. are placed in close proximity to residential areas in which POC & impoverished people reside. Trump crippled the EPA and as a result air quality for said people dropped like a rock that was already at the bottom of the ocean.
This isn’t fear mongering, this is the shit we witnessed the first time around. The second time will be just as bad at a minimum.
He’ll also set forth many of the components of Project2025 which, if you haven’t read, is scary to say the least.
I have, and it is terrifying.
Even if Trump doesn’t get elected, eventually another republican will. And with goals of theirs looking like that, I don’t know if this country will be safe in the foreseeable future.
Hopefully by Zoomers (currently aged 12 – 27) pushing back hard on it when they actually vote in large numbers. Because, you know, young people don’t vote.
Thus all the social media PsyOps. Like it or not, TikTok is critical to the future of our country.
I’m not sure you replied to the right person.
I did. you’re claiming voting is pointless, but all abstaining can lead to is trump
I never said Trump would help me. So your question is irrelevant.
Your actions will help elect him. 2+2=4 whether you’re acknowledging it or not
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But voting only determines which face of aristocracy is in power?
If someone unacceptable wins, it gets fiat discarded.
Not even hypothetical. Remember that time a bland vaguely well intentioned nerd won an election against the grandson of the guy who was gonna be German ambassador in the business plot government, and they just threw the whole election out and gave it to the third generation fascist oligarch guy?
Do real action, and while theres nothing wrong with spending five minutes to vote, remember it is not politics and won’t save you, get you infrastructure, or stop a bullshit war. Not ever.
That shit was only possible thanks to “both sides” horseshit keeping turnout low and results close.
You are part of the problem.
So admit the points are made up and the rules don’t matter?
I wish you people meant things when you say words.
That’s my line!
‘Your actions cause the problems you’re pointing to to excuse your actions.’
‘So you admit there’s problems.’
Shoo, enabler.
So you’re saying the rules are made up and the points don’t matter
Therefore we need even more points than the rules say we need
And the guy making that an unpalatable moral
compromisegetting raped for six hours straight, instead of a thing you pester your roommates to hop in he car and grudgingly take an hour off to do, that guy isn’t at all at fault.You shit the bed and failed to fight for the rules, you offer me a shit deal I don’t even want, and you scold me for not lifting a finger? Fuck you.
it is not politics and won’t save you, get you infrastructure, or stop a bullshit war. Not ever.
–
Not ever.
If Al Gore had won Florida outright, there’d be no recount, no Brookes Brothers riot, no 5-4 decision cancelling democracy, and quite possibly no September 11th attacks. Plus eight extra years of giving a shit about climate change instead of openly funneling no-bid contracts to a third-gen oligarch’s decrepit oil-baron vice president.
All of that evil came from one fucking state being within 500 votes. A situation caused by inane “douche v turd” denial that politics matter, god dammit.
Of course, alternate-universe super geniuses would whine about VP Lieberman trying to outlaw video games or whateverthefuck. I guess that’s as bad as starting two land wars in Asia Minor.
Also gore did win Florida though. The only reason he ‘didn’t win outright’ is because of tampering and tantrums by fascists.
He won. He won by all your fucking rules and if elections mattered, he would’ve been president.
One vote, 500 votes, because George bush didn’t win by any votes, and he got to be president.
“My shit doesn’t work so we just gotta do it harder and if it doesn’t work its your fault for not committing” you know I could say the sane thing about direct action, but that actually does work.
Outright winners don’t need recounts. There’d be nothing to tamper with. No opportunities for fascists on the ground to do direct action, or fascists in power to ignore the close results and make up whatever they like. The election would simply have been won.
But that didn’t happen.
And the reason it didn’t happen is that a lot of people stayed home, thanks to bullshit like yours.
He did win outright! Al gore won the election outright!
“The rules are made up and the points don’t matter so anyone who causes us to not get as many points as possible is a Nazi”
And also the people making giving you points a massive moral compromise that makes my stomach turn isnt at all to blame.
“Outright” is not decorative. Words… mean things. Al Gore won the election, technically. But the margin was so slim that there was a recount. There would not be a recount, if he had won the election… unambiguously.
He. Did. He. Won. The. Election. The recount was the product of a fascist babyfit. Oh my god libs aren’t even people I don’t know why I waste words on you.
But 1 < 260 ?
Lots of things work this way. You can play on a sports team and not bring too much to the table, and yet your team will win anyway. And yet, if everyone takes that attitude, then the team loses.
In fact, I would say that almost any real progress in the world depends on shared effort where each individual person who’s part of it isn’t individually critical to the outcome. Not wanting to take part in that kind of thing even when it’s mind-bogglingly trivial (as voting is) is going to exclude you from the majority of good things you can do.
the team loses
This is a false equivalence. An election is not a sports game and voters are not a team.
Not wanting to take part in that kind of thing even when it’s mind-bogglingly trivial (as voting is) is going to exclude you from the majority of good things you can do.
What good things?
This is a false equivalence.
No, it’s an analogy.
It’s a really poor analogy.
You’re a really poor analogy
I’m gonna start using times when I’ve articulated what I have to say, and someone clearly wants to get into a pointless and repetitious back-and-forth about it, as a good chance to link to activist organizations that people can join to make a good positive difference.
Here’s Bernie Sanders’s group; they seem pretty effective.
Scans page
I’m absolutely mystified as to how you could think that page would answer my questions about your statements.
You seem comically, almost willfully mystified by everything happening around you.
I think this is the behavior of a shill who simply has no argument against the things that are being said, but is on the clock to oppose it in some fashion, and pretending to be so pants-on-head mentally disabled that they can’t comprehend the pretty straightforward things people are saying is the only thing they can come up with that still lets them be aggressive against it.
I think. I have no idea; maybe they’re just a deeply combative person who’s uninterested in reading. Like I say, I think if they are a shill, that this type of behavior actually has the exact opposite effect of what it’s supposed to be doing. If it was me I think I would start talking about anarchism and rebellion and how the left needs to turn to real violence to achieve its ends… like sidestep the whole brain-dead argument of “voting won’t produce electoral outcomes” and try to positively support something that will indirectly get people thinking in a different direction from political organizing, and still be destructive to the country overall.
no argument against the things that are being said
Nothing is being said. All I see is responses. No answers.
Here’s a list of jobs with the Biden campaign, for anyone who’s okay with the establishment version of the left and wants a job that’s more productive than optimizing Adwords campaigns to sell sneakers or whatever. Most are in-person in Delaware and pay about $90k.
(I actually completely by accident linked to an activist organization that does have quite a few concrete answers to your question “What good things?” It’s not my problem if you weren’t able to find them. But, what I was intending to do was just totally ignore your bad-faith combativeness and link to some useful resources, instead of engaging in this whole hostile exchange in any capacity.)
Here’s a list of jobs with the Biden campaign
Firstly, not voting doesn’t seem to disqualify one from those jobs. So this is not “good things” that one would supposedly be excluded from by not voting.
Secondly, I’m not a US citizen which does seem to disqualify me from those jobs.
It’s not my problem if you weren’t able to find them.
Can you tell me what you’re expecting me to look for? Or even better, to save everyone’s time, just give a link to exactly what it is that conveys what you’re trying to convey? Or even better, if you’re really serious about this whole communication thing, copy and paste the text and provide a link to where it came from? And explain clearly why you’re quoting the text?
bad-faith combativeness
No idea why you think my questions are either in bad faith or “combative”.
If you’re concerned about climate change specifically, Extinction Rebellion is a protest group agitating to turn the governments of the world against their currently mass-suicidal course of policy. Biden’s been able to do a certain amount about it even in the face of pretty stiff resistance from the entirety of our corrupted governmental system, but the current pace of change isn’t going to be enough to give us a livable planet in the future, so getting involved in the solution seems like a good idea.
Not to mention that the less people think their votes are worth, the more every individual vote is actually mean.
If you have two elections, one with a 40% turnout and one with an 80% turnout, in the one where 40% of people voted, each voter was as important as two voters in the 80% one.
important
What do you mean by this precisely?
Impactful.
I mean the fewer people vote, the more power those who do vote end up having.
Your country’s youth didn’t vote? Enjoy the regressive concervatives that the old people elected taking away minority rights, reproductive rights, LGBT rights.
power
What do you mean by this precisely?
I mean the ones who vote choose who makes decisions and passes laws.
I don’t understand what you mean. An individual voter doesn’t choose who makes decisions and passes laws.
Are you okay?
He is not ok.
What do you mean by this precisely?
What do you mean by this precisely?
Call the zoo, the sea lion escaped!
The outcome of the election, by vote percentage, is altered more by one vote if the total vote is 400 than it would be if the total vote was 800.
That makes sense, thanks, but I don’t follow how that idea relates to the everyday meaning of the words “important” or “power”.
Is this some kind of new annoying bot? I refuse to believe a real person could be this stupid.
I think they are a very, very funny and clever troll. (sarcasm)
I checked their posting history and, nope, they’re just a moron.
He’s trying to derail discussion.
Usually when I read “both sides are the same”, it’s a blue conservative like you trying to make people critical of the Democratic party seem unreasonable.
Both sides are capitalist and conservative, but there are differences for sure. Dont you want more differences?
If you wanna really shut up those people bitching from the sidelines, the best way to do so is to put them in the game! Force them to show us how to do things since it’s so easy and they have it all figured out.
Switching away from first past the post voting allows people to vote for who represents them best while still counting their vote against those they dont want to win. Just search for videos on FPTP voting if you want an explanation on how and why the spoiler effect exists.
Electoral reform is possible in each individual state (for now), we dont need federal reform! Maine and Alaska have already passed electoral reform.
Republicans are moving to make alternative electoral systems illegal in their states. Why would you want to use the same voting system republicans prefer?
More political parties means a higher percentage of the population is representedby their choices in the voting booth. More people involved in the electoral process, more people engaged.
Its a win win win all around for not just the people, but also for the democratic party. More people voting means more democratic votes. The numbers dont lie. So what’s the hold up blue states?
You believe it’s critical to vote for the democrats to beat the Republicans, thus you should 100% be fully invested in passing electoral reform in your state.
Electoral reform needs to be the number one priority for every democrat. This is a existential threat to our nation, so we must use EVERY tool at our disposal. No more waiting. This especially goes for those in blue states.
Consider starting a campaign to change how we vote in your own state! Force our representatives to compete with fresh outside ideas. We deserve the best representation, not excuses.
This just emphasizes to me that every vote matters. Sure, both parties are terrible and the chance of a third party making any headway, nevermind winning an election is, at best, unlikely.
But not voting is being complicit in what comes next. Good or bad, you’re okay with whatever happens.
Harm reduction through voting is surreal, but it’s required at this point. Don’t be a filthy fucking collaborator, go vote.
You need a different voting system for third parties to be viable
I agree. The problem is getting a new voting system to be implemented. Neither of the two parties want third parties to get a decent shot at dethroning them, so the two parties right now, are not going to willingly go for a new voting system since the current one ensures that they only have one rival during elections.
It doesn’t benefit either party, so neither is going to agree to change it.
Yes ok but still…
Genuinely not trying to be a dick, but I don’t understand what your response means?
The response means, “I agree, but it’s not relevant to the topic at hand.”
Yes, we need a better system. In the meantime, we need to work with what we have.
OK. The op mentioned voting third parties so my comment was a response to that. Thanks for explaining thou
Wasn’t sure at first but you brought me home safe in the second half
They are both imperfect but only one is legitimately terrible. I’m actually pretty tired of everyone feeling the need to qualify this sentiment, as if the Democrats haven’t been behind basically every bit of progress in the US going back a century or more.
A hundred years ago the Republicans were still ok and the dems were well, pretty bad. Reminder that by 1924 the last Democratic president was fucking Wilson, ya know the man who showed birth of a nation at the whitehouse. It wouldnt be until FDR that the Democrats started to not be fucken horrible.
* 50 years or more
Not that I’m disagreeing with your thesis as applied to the modern day, but pre-Lyndon Johnson, the Democrats were the racist party. There was a massive sea change during the era of Nixon, when the Democrats decided after quite a bit of heated internal debate that they couldn’t possibly stomach depending on the support of the segregationists, whatever the cost, and the Southern Strategy scooped all the for real lynch-mob enthusiasts all up for Nixon. Except for Carter’s brief flirtation with actual human decency, which the US isn’t okay with for some reason, the Democrats got accustomed to losing elections for quite a while, until Clinton decided to make a pact with the neoliberal bastards since all the actual progressives were so ground down into not-voting-land that they weren’t even worth appealing to anymore. That worked and that set the tone which has continued to the modern day of slight steady progress under Democrats versus absolute naked fascism under the Republicans (accelerating year by year to its current breakneck pace.)
Side note, if you want to have your heart broke a little bit, read Hubert Humphrey’s speech at the DNC in NINETEEN FUCKING FORTY EIGHT, where he calls out the Democratic party for their acceptance of racism:
My friends, to those who say that we are rushing this issue of civil rights, I say to them we are 172 years late. To those who say that this civil-rights program is an infringement on states’ rights, I say this: The time has arrived in America for the Democratic Party to get out of the shadow of states’ rights and to walk forthrightly into the bright sunshine of human rights.
He was still around in 1968, in the literal bloody battle, inside and outside the convention hall, for what the Democrats were going to be. They never fulfilled their promise completely, and they still haven’t, and that year it cost them the presidency, just like it did in 2016.
I say this 1,000% agreeing that Biden has represented a big step forward and accomplished some genuine impressive things, and that voting for him in November is an affirmative good thing and not just a way to prevent Trump’s end of the world. But the Democrats had to be dragged kicking and screaming by their progressive wing into doing good things, just as they have to be now on Israel among some other issues.
The difference is that they can be dragged into good things, which is enough. And they’ve done pretty much all of the progress the country has made since 1976; I’ll fully agree with you there.
Just remember there are people Mango who respond to every single post on the entire thread but can’t handle reacting to a single counter argument to their ideas. That’s why you need to vote, and if you are Mango and you try to over analyze this post and can’t even see something hitting you in the face your vote wouldn’t help me achieve my interests anyway. If you vote, keep doing what you are doing.
Oh look. It’s time for another round of “the ethically bankrupt decisions of the powerful people in the world are your fault because voting is real.”
It must be all the lead poisoning making people so shallow minded as to believe the toys they’re sold and occupied with are anything but a means to keep them in line and shift blame. Your cheap TV tells you what they want you to think and exists for that. Voting is a black box that exists to convince you that there’s a chance you can improve outcomes rather than just serve the rich. Political faces are literally only faces.
Change my mind. Prove to me that voting is actually implemented and a functional interaction with the world. Hint: Some words on my screen will be about as meaningful as a Harry Potter book at best. I see voting to be about as real of an attempt at achieving something as praying. It’s a way to convince yourself your supposedly good intentions will have any sway over reality.
I need something better than faith.
I can imagine that there would be less reason for many to vote when there are only two options to vote for. What would it take for USA to implement a multi party system like many of the other democraties in the world?
Not voting as a means to show dissatisfaction is probably the dumbest fucking thing I’ve ever seen people do. And I say this knowing people willing vote for Trump.
They are at least voting.
It’s like the people who try to run from the cops and then once they get caught and asked why they did it, they say “because I didn’t want to go to jail.” My bro you have articulated the problem and I get it, but the solution you have chosen is going to make it quite a lot worse.
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Yeah because it means you actually think votes have some correlation with outcomes. Pretty dang stupid.
Speaking personally as a brit i’m not going to comment on whatevers going on with the american election but in the case of britain at least im absolutely not going to be voting for Keir Starmer since most of the left neoliberals in this country telling me i have to swallow my pride and vote for the most right wing and second worst (to his “credit”, unlike Tony Blair, he doesnt have the blood of a million iraqis on his hands, only 30,000 palestinians) party leader labour’s had in recent memory were the exact same people 5 years ago saying they couldnt in good faith vote for the most far left, trans positive labour leader in decades because he criticised Israel which led to the largest conservative majority in years.
Under Sir Kid Starver, Labour stopped members from voting for a ceasefire right at the start of the Palestinian genocide, members have repeatedly been expelled over bogus antisemitism charges, starmerite labour’s trying to push to have the NHS privatised, the party has pivoted so far to the right that you have promiment members saying “Margaret Thatcher was a visionary leader for the U.K; no doubt about it", they’ve proposed policies to segregate trans people out of single sex NHS hospital wards and those are just the things from the last few months or so that i remember off the top of my head.
I’m going to vote for the Greens instead.
Anyone who genuinely believes that voting doesn’t matter should ask themselves why conservatives ALWAYS make sure to vote, come hell or high water.
They’re brainwashed into believing they’re affecting something. The outcomes are decided by the powerful who are getting them no matter what numbers they show you with the TVs that are allegedly subsidized by ads rather than how much they decide control over your media exposure is worth.
go home, putin worshipping comrade.
Go fuck yourself random unrelated insult maker.
how does Putin’s taint taste?
I ran into someone like this on Lemmy just yesterday. They said that “we” deserve to suffer if Trump gets elected. I said that I was guessing they weren’t queer or a person of color. They were not. Therefore they were not part of “we.” ‘Innocent people that are definitely not me deserve to suffer so that America gets what it deserves’ is a really fucking galling attitude.
not twitter (tumblr)
no evidence that any of these people are white? advocates a position that protects the interests of POC?
why is this posted here? this is such a useful and well formed post but i have this community blocked and only found this thru some modlog drama. whatever lol. saving this for later reposting somewhere more relavant. thanks for sharing OP. :)
the “Voting is Not Harm Reduction” article is possibly the most covert insidious thing that’s happened to online political discourse since 2019.
somehow, it’s managed to SEO weasel its way on top of every other article since the dawn of the internet for the search terms “voting harm reduction” and similar. and not just once, but reposted to every corner of the internet imaginable. literally try it now, if you set your google search to find articles before February 5, 2020, you will see inumerable articles with diversity of positions on the topic. after that? literally just the same article reposted and crosslisted, with the occasional reddit/twitter/tumblr comment thread.
it’s not even a bad article per se, it’s just indecently self-contradictory as OOP says, admitting at the beginning that small rights can be preserved by engaging in voting, and then pulling a 180 and accusing those who vote of perpetuating white supremacy.
like i get it, harm reduction has a specific meaning originating in addiction treatment. but for heavens sake, this flub of language doesn’t mean you should throw away one of the only miniscule rights the oppressor class has granted you to help your neighbors.
editing to add this comment thread and article which i think give helpful insight.
