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- cross-posted to:
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Researchers jailbreak a Tesla to get free in-car feature upgrades::A group of researchers found a way to hack a Tesla’s hardware with the goal of getting free in-car upgrades, such as heated rear seats.
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Why are people buying this crap!? There are so many regular boring cars that just do things cars are supposed to do.
Cars already are bad why make them worse?
I’m not defending this practice (it’s gross), but
people and critics almost universally lovemany people and critics who actually own/drive Teslas love them.So, you’re kind of mischaracterizing them as “worse than other cars.”
edit: it’s unsurprising that this comment is downvoted in a thread hellbent on shitting on Tesla. I don’t know what I expected.
…people and critics almost universally love Teslas…
Not sure where you get that from. Elon and Tesla cult members might have you think so but a Google search on Teslas reputation show differently. Consuser affairs showing about 60% positive.
https://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/tesla_motors.html?#sort=top_reviews&filter=1
This is an interesting comment to make. For years I’ve seen people shitting all over musk and Tesla, specifically because they have a ton of build quality issues
No, it’s not “almost universal”. Even before musk becomes public idiot number one, there was a lot of hate for these cars
Maybe my opinion is dated/anecdotal.
My belief re: critics comes from early days of Tesla, when the concept of a fast ev was very foreign to most auto journalists. So, most of the reviews were something along the lines of “I wanted to hate this car, but goddamn if it isn’t faster than insert critic’s favorite sports car and way more useful too. I’m converted.”
Re: people in general, I’m basing it off of people I know who own them. That’s admittedly a very small sample size (~a dozen), but their opinions are the polar opposite of what you’ll find on random Internet forums. There’s definitely selection bias going on in both directions.
For what it’s worth, I’m very aware of the QA issues and no I don’t own a Tesla myself.
Most people that have purchased Teslas have already been invested and just about everything ever including gut feel tells you at that point that they’re not going to say it was a mistake to buy a thing they spent $50-100k on.
People don’t like admitting they were suckered, and certainly not to people they are trying to impress.
How do you come to that conclusion, and why would it be different for any other car?
I have both a bmw (330, 6 cylinder) and a tesla m3. The bmw is only 2 years older. Nowadays I prefer to drive the m3 by a wide margin for various reasons.
Musk had nothing to do with that, on the contrary it is more in spite of him than because of him that I bought one. I think that goes for most Tesla owners, as most of them are politically moderate and centrists and do not like extremists like him (or any).
Right wingers are ideologically against it and rather damage themselves by their ideology, and lefists tend to not have the money :) or (in Europe at least) are against any means of individual non-public transport.
We have a Tesla and most owners love them because they’re good cars. Cost of ownership is next to nothing and our Model Y had next to no issues so far (scratch on seat when we picked it up which they replaced with a service appointed).
It costs less than $2 per 100 km to run while the prior car cost closer to $20 per $100 km in premium fuel. Also no oil changes or other significant maintenance (spark plugs, transmission oil, etc.) We save $3000 of gas per year and we’re in a luxurious/premium car. What I don’t understand is why anyone would buy a GLC/Q5/X3 over a Model Y. Who wants to spend $15k on gas in 5 years?
The economics are compelling, but the cost of ownership for someone like me would also have to factor in the extra interest paid on a loan at least $20K more than a comparably-sized ICE car
Tesla does a lot of things right - their cars are amongst the fastest around and their charging network is superior to any others to date
But their build quality is poor and their autonomous driving features are overstated compared to what they can deliver
Plus their service support is limited due to their direct sell model - there aren’t many places to get Tesla’s repaired
Tesla did make EVs mainstream though. Consider that their cars outsell popular ICE cars even though the Tesla’s cost 50%+ more
So, it’s a mixed bag with a lot of their customers, and some outsiders, absolutely fanatical about them, some people hating them by proxy because of Musk, and some people 50/50 on them like any car brand
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How high are you right meow?
Universally loved? LMAO where the fuck are you hearing that? Teslas are known overpriced shitboxes.
Most car manufacturers charge money for those kind of upgrades. The difference is they specifically build or do not build the features into the car. If Tesla doesn’t charge meaningfully more and if they do not turn it into a subscription, I wouldn’t knock them for it.
There’s a lot to bitch at Tesla about, but being able to decide after the fact that you want a heated steering wheel isn’t one of them. FSD being bullshit even if it was free (and it is far from free!), the refusal to allow Android Auto/CarPlay, the intentionally rosy range estimates, the association with Musk… those are what I’d focus on. Unlockable steering wheel heating is not an issue.
but being able to decide after the fact that you want a heated steering wheel isn’t one of them.
No one is bitching about being able to decide that you want a heated steering wheel. You can decide to install it on literally any car brand or model.
People are bitching about the hardware that they have paid for and they own being locked behind by a software paywall. This would cause a riot with practically any other consumer electronics. Imagine if the fingerprint scanner on your smartphone was an extra $50 to unlock? Or quick charge being an extra $75?
That would be the most anti-consumer horseshit we’ve seen, and that’s exactly what Tesla is doing.
Kind of like adding a little chip to the charger cable of a cellphone that identifies the charger as a brand cable and without that chip, the phone won’t charge or use the perfectly good cable for data transfer. If that sounds familiar, it’s because that’s what Apple did/does.
E: fixed autocorrect
It’s not even extra to unlock in some cases. They want a monthly subscription. They want you to own nothing. They want you to “license” your car from them and then turn your shit off if you miss a payment.
It’s all rent seeking bullshit and I’ll ride the terrible public transit instead of buying another car if those are my options the next time I go to buy a car.
Imagine if the fingerprint scanner on your smartphone was an extra $50 to unlock? Or quick charge being an extra $75?
Or not including a charger, or doing away with useful features like removable batteries or 1/8" Jack’s so you have to buy new earbuds… shit
Elon is pulling this shit because it will probably work
Also… what happens if the heater breaks? Are you still charged for fixing it or is that included in the subscription?
Right? If the hardware is in the vehicle, there’s no additional cost for them to enable it on all vehicles. If they want to have a way to offer vehicles for cheaper to increase sales, they’re not saving any money by doing it the way they are. They’re just saving on not having to make multiple models. But if that’s the case, just give everyone the damn heated steering wheel if it’s installed in the car.
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Other brands are experimenting with this too. BMW already has features that you have to pay to unlock as well. See https://basic-tutorials.com/news/coding-companies-want-to-unlock-additional-features-from-bmw/ for example.
You know what? I am going to just maintain my old economy car until I die. I am out of the system. I don’t want a touchscreen or a subscription or vendor locking. I want a machine that takes me from place A to place B when mass transit or my bicycle isn’t practical. That’s it. You people enjoy your car as a service bullshit model. Don’t come crying to me when the batteries light on fire and the brakes require you to upgrade flash.
You did not understand what I wrote if your retort is on the “car as a service” subject.
Guess I didn’t. Explain it to me like you would Bitcoin and I will give the attention it so richly deserves.
Bitcoin can fuck off.
The point here is that car companies already charge for these things. The reality is basically two scenarios when ordering a car:
A: You pay $x, and they offer you heating steering wheels for $y. If you do not get them then, you do not get them ever.
B: You pay $x, and you can pay $y at any time to get heated steering wheels.The business “bet” that (B) represents is that maintaining additional SKUs for each upgrade-feature and splitting off production lines to include or not include various combinations of features 1-2-3-etc. will cost them more money than just including it in every car. Then they can sell it to you on a whim. The actual feature itself does not cost anywhere near $y in either scenario to include, which is an important component of making this possible.
Now, you can say that (B) is a shitty scenario in a vacuum: if they’re willing to include it in every car, they should just charge every car what it costs to include plus some minor markup to allow the business to operate. E.g. if it costs $50 to include, they can increase the price of every car $55. And in that vacuum I’d agree. But it isn’t in a vacuum. That is not the scenario (B) is competing with. (B) is competing with (A). In (A) you are going to pay $200 or $300 or whatever for that $50-cost feature up front, or you never get it ever. In (B) you pay that $200 or $300 whenever you like.
It operates in a similar world to how Apple charges $200 to go from 8gb of RAM to 16gb of RAM, when that might cost them $10-20 at volume pricing. Or to use a well-liked company, how Valve charges $250 for a ~$10 SSD + ~$5-10 carrying case + ~$5-10 glass coating, on the base Steam Deck vs the fanciest Steam Deck.
This is not a “as a service” model. It’s a simple upselling business model. Profits on base models are low so as to have a low sticker price, and then they try to create profit off of upgrades. In this case, the software locked version is preferable to the consumer over the default version because it’s something you can unlock at any time, instead of only at purchase. It is not a new business model, nor is it even limited to electronics. The overall business model is shitty, but that applies to every instance of it: (A) and (B), and (B) is not differently shitty.
Service based systems are based on recurring revenue, in this case anything with a subscription. Which I specifically called out as something that would make it shitty and pointed to their subscription based or subscription-incentivizing behavior as shitty.
Subscription model is what the manufacturers are heading for. They see the dollar signs and are chasing after it.
Yep, rents. That’s what all of these assholes want. No more ownership. No more selling products. They keep the ownership and you rent the privilege to use their junky piles of shit. I’ll sooner walk everywhere than involve myself in such an agreement.
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This looks to have already been discovered years ago as this company sells an OBD2 plug that can toggle all of this stuff, as well as highjacking some controls to add new functionality, as well as adding 50HP to those cars with a specific rear motor version https://ingenext.ca/products/ghost-upgrade
Is this method software only? Because the upgrades on that site are pretty expensive and proprietary.
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If I hear I can solder a modchip to a Tesla to get free features, bypass paid subscription stuff, I totally would.
I guess? But I also would never, ever, buy a Tesla.
as well as adding 50HP
Holy shit, IRL health buffs to mounts
Takes pay-to-win to the next level
If you read the article it is different. This relies on physically bringing connections to gain root access to the file system.
It’s also unlikely Tesla can’t just watch for modified files and update them everytime the car goes into drive or something. They probably won’t do it, but to claim it’s impossible is just disingenuous
Teslas have x64 CPU’s? What the hell?
It does have the letter x in it…
/s
Muskovite builds vehicles with a built in micro-transaction PTW scheme? Hilarious.
Can’t imagine a bigger “fuck you” to give to the Muskrat… other than when Xtwitter finally implodes.
GOOD!! I despise it when hardware features are held at ransom!
This is great. When you buy the car, you own it. I don’t care what kind of weird licenses and contracts they put together. If I buy the car and there is hardware in the car that allows for heated seats, there is no reason why I shouldn’t be able to enable it myself, tear it out, or do whatever I want with it. It is mine.
I can understand there being safety concerns for modifying a car. But the owner of the car already accepts liability for the operation of that car. If I do not modify the car and I get into an accident due to Teslas auto pilot feature or another thing baked into their system, does Tesla accept liability? No, they do not. If it is my responsibility for the safe operation of the vehicle, then it is also my responsibility to modify a vehicle in a safe manner. 
It’s ridiculous how nowadays a lot of hardware car features are locked behind a simple software switch. Feels like both a massive waste of resources for people that don’t buy the upgrades, and like having to pay for a feature that is already physically present in your car. Software-only upgrades like full self driving are understandable, hardware upgrades locked behind a software gate aren’t.
[cross-posted from my reply to the same article on c/news]
Why the heck would they install the equipment in the first place if it’s only to block it??? Is that why the base model is so expensive? You’re basically buying the deluxe version but are simply stuck using basic features because of the software???
Because it’s cheaper for them. Building all the cars the same simplifies production and inventory management. They don’t have to configure each car for the end users requirements; they just use software to turn these features on.
The question that should be asked is if they can put these features into the car and still make a profit why are these added features so expensive as all the fees are 100% profit!
Then just sell that one model and enable everything. Otherwise don’t complain when hackers crack the box and enable the features.
Oh I agree with you and am not defending this practise. Was just trying to explain why it’s done.
No no I know. Don’t worry. LoL. This reply wasn’t directed at you. It’s just what’s on my mind. It feels good to vent.
Technological serfdom. You don’t own anything anymore. You can perpetually rent from your lord or you can suffer the consequences.
The “you wouldnt pirate a car” crowd will be shook when they finally realize " yes we would"
I used to think " I wouldn’t because that’s a stupid metaphor" but now that it’s not a stupid metaphor oh yes the fuck I would.
Or just don’t buy a luxury car
Never buying any car with this type of tech.
If it’s “our future” then I’ll stick to used cars for life
I have on old car. I should replace it, but it doesn’t have a lot of mileage. I’m honestly dreading the purchase of new car because of this practice, not just the subscription features, but the control the maker has by being networked to it. I love my old dumb car.
Just buy a used car instead, as it’s actually better nowadays with the insane dealer markups
Quick question: Couldn’t Tesla’s telemetry servers detect this kind of jailbreaking and, say, remotely disable the device? I’m kind of thinking of Nintendo consoles and their bans on some jailbroken consoles (typically the ones that play pirated games online).
I’m guessing they spoofed the telemetry in order to enable said features. It doesn’t say in the article the method, so I could be wrong.
How long the instructions would last if posted on Twitter?
good. software locks are anti human and anti consumer. everyone inherently feels ripped off by them, but the more capitalist minded think ‘oh that’s the company’s right to do’
if it’s my property in my house I can fuck with it to do whatever I want
So you think you should be able to pay for a base model and get all the features of the top of the line model? Try that at a Toyota dealership and let me know how that goes.
If they put the premium shit in the car and software locked it out, fuck them. It’s part of the car I paid for, I’ll do whatever the fuck I want with it. Don’t like it? Don’t put the premium shit in a base model.
I love that you think Tesla isn’t pricing the premium features into the base model.
Flipping a bit in software doesn’t cost Tesla anything, the hardware is already installed.
It would be totally different if Tesla didn’t install the hardware by default, and you had to pay to have it put in.
It doesn’t cost VW anything either, they still want 1500€ to enable the fog lights to turn on when taking a turn (not sure how what feature is called).
At Toyota, you pay for the premium shit to get installed, you most certainly do not pay a fee (recurring or otherwise) for them to turn it on.
I’m actually really glad that Toyota hasn’t locked their active safety features (Adaptive Cruise Control, Lane Departure Assist, Frontal Collision Braking) behind vehicle trim paywalls. That stuff is standard on all their vehicles now.
Unlike others cough Dodge cough where is still a premium upcharge for driver assistance technology that can potentially save your life on the road. I get charging more for heated seats and whatnot, but it’s unethical in this instance because the car is certainly able to (on a hardware level) turn on its active safety features without doing a complete retrofit.
Absolutely. Turning those features off is a safety risk and should probably be illegal. Imagine the world of cringe where you tried to pull on your seatbelt but it was locked because you didn’t pay for your seatbelt subscription.
I think that if they’re letting those cars go out the factory door with the parts for heated rear seats, then I own those too, and I’ll do with them what I please.
and if they softlock it they should pay a price for taking up space and load that you didn’t ask for.
Unfortunately because most of this is locked behind DRM you may be subject to crimes best described by someone else as “felony contempt of business model”.
How dare people find ways around our artificial scarcity. /s
Yeeesss first thing I thought when I read the title lmaoo
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#thank you
I was afraid I’d get to the bottom and not find the perfect song.
Y’all should check out their new single too: https://youtu.be/rpsKDDGcDpw
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/rpsKDDGcDpw
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source, check me out at GitHub.
“you wouldn’t download an in-car feature”
I’d do it even if I didn’t want the feature.
You are stealing that feature. Because of you some innocent tesla owner will have their in-car features taken away by the piracy enforcement team.
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