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I want a picture of the place/sign.
Is this Escher’s secret sign home?
A stocked minifridge‽
Luxury. Best we could manage was a paper bag in a septic tank.
We were evicted from our septic tank.
The director of a local homeless assistance group is quoted as saying:
“Obviously, we don’t want people resorting to illegal activity to find housing."
IANAL but here’s a funny twist of the law. It’s not generally illegal, per se, for the woman have done this until she was caught and legal action was taken and was successful. The mere act of it was not in itself illegal. Heck, in California you have to give squatters 3 days notice (the area where she stayed could be seen as “vacant”).
Anyway, food for thought. Lest, you know, one require housing.
Trespassing is illegal, even if the law sometimes gives even law-breaking squatters extra rights in evictions.
Wasn’t “trespassing” what cops charged students with for sitting on their own campus?
After they were asked to leave. That’s what made it trespassing.
They paid quite a bit of money to be there.
Meanwhile, pro-Israeli protesters from outside campus blare loud music during the middle of finals and the administration shrugs.
Other Israeli groups invaded campuses armed with baseball bats. No arrests of Israelis appear to have been made.
So it appears the universities are punishing students residents for the actions of counter protesters.
By invoking “trespassing”
They paid quite a bit of money to be there.
And that doesn’t matter a damn once they’ve been asked to leave.
I’m not saying it’s good or bad. I’m saying it’s how the law works
I’m not saying it’s good or bad
:-/
If it’s bad we should change the law. Right now, legally, these people were trespassing. That’s a fact.
Yes, many of them committed the crime as well.
Yes, trespassing is illegal. But you haven’t trespassed until it’s established that you have trespassed. Legally.
You obviously aren’t legally guilty of it until you’ve been charged and convicted, but that doesn’t mean you haven’t actually done it in the meantime.
That’s not how trespass works. You have to be “noticed” that you are not welcome on the property. Once you are on notice you have trespassed if you haven’t left
No, at least common law trespass definitely does not require any noticing. Can you show me any statutory form that does? Obviously crimes are hard to prosecute without witnesses, but very few crimes require someone to notice at the time for it to be a crime.Edit: I read that too fast.
“Common law” has no relevance to state law matters in the US (nor Federal, for that matter). Here is the relevant statute in this case:
https://www.legislature.mi.gov/Laws/MCL?objectName=MCL-750-552
The bar for trespass is met only if the perpetrator has been “forbidden” from accessing the property by the owner. This does not have to be in person, or verbal. A “keep out” or “no trespassing” sign would suffice, and this is why such things exist. In this case I would be immensely surprised if there weren’t some kind of employees only, authorized personnel only, or keep out sign posted on whatever method of ingress was used to reach the inside of the sign.
The intent of this is clear, it’s so nobody can get done for merely setting foot on a property in some situation where they didn’t realize they’d left public right of way or a property where they had authorization to be. You have to tell the person to GTFO (either preemptively or upon discovery) and if they don’t, then they can be arrested.
Ohh, my bad. Y’all mean like “given notice”, not like “disturbing the owner”. I read that too fast.
Common law is still valid in every state in the US (except maybe Louisiana), although obviously statutory law usually overrides it. You’re right that there’s no federal common law since Erie v. Tompkins though.
And I agree with your analysis of that statute. That is interesting too, since my state, Illinois, does not require explicitly being forbidden by the owner. It’s much more in line with the common law idea of trespassing as simply being going somewhere without authority, express or implied.
Incorrect
but that doesn’t mean you haven’t actually done it
Yes, but you are only guilty of it, legally, if you are caught :)
A subtle but useful distinction in my book.
“On the roof, it’s peaceful as can be, and there the world below don’t bother me…”
Sounds like long enough for her to claim squatters rights and no longer be homeless.
The court may argue that the space behind a retail marquee is not a home.
Pure commercial zoning, legally can not be a home.
There’s a lot of bullshit in zoning to begin with. Why exactly can’t we have mixed commercial and residential areas in suburbia? Slap some apartments on top of grocery stores, bakeries/restaurants, and shops; or is forbidden to have much of anything within walking distance of homes?
Mixed use zoning is considered the gold standard of city planning, and it’s why housing in Tokyo is so cheap comparatively
or is forbidden to have much of anything within walking distance of homes?
I think we both know it is. No one knows why tho.
Because then you wouldn’t need a car
The threshold in Michigan is 15 years of conspicuous, uncontested, and exclusive occupancy. So, no.
Who TF snitched on Jane Doe?!
Contractors followed an extension cord and found her up there.
This was not a homeless woman, this woman had a home.
“There are much better options”
She had private shelter, no rent, probably HVAC. about the only thing missing was a bathroom, but there’s no mention of any waste she could ha e left.
Sounds like a pretty good deal. Wonder what “better” is.
No electric bills as well I imagine.
Contractors curious about an extension cord on the roof of a Michigan grocery store made a startling discovery: A 34-year-old woman was living inside the business sign, with enough space for a computer, printer and coffee maker, police said.
“She was homeless,” Officer Brennon Warren of the Midland Police Department said Thursday
Sounds like she had a home you goddamn narcs
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that makes me sad
That is all I would need to distract me from being homeless
Not really “homeless” now is she?
She is now, since they kicked her out. She wasn’t before that.
Setting aside whether they want her living in their sign, if they know that she’s there and let her stay, I’m pretty sure that they have liability if there are problems. She was living on the roof of a building, no obvious way up or down, and if they say “sure, go ahead and stay” and she is climbing off the roof one night and falls, that’s on them. Not to mention that I am pretty confident that a store-roof-sign is gonna violate a long list of code requirements for legal housing, from insulation to having a bathroom.
And even if you’re gung-ho on the concept of relaxing liability and code for property owners who don’t charge or something like that because you want a lower bar for homeless shelters or something, I am almost certain that the kind of place that they’re gonna aim to permit isn’t gonna be people living on a roof in a sign.
EDIT: Also, while I don’t know the specifics of this store, it’s apparently in a shopping center (and the article referenced that she may have climbed up from other commercial buildings, so they’re probably adjoining). I think that the way those work is that the stores don’t normally own their individual properties, but that they lease from a property owner who owns the strip mall or shopping center, and it’s not like the store can just go start treating the property as residential even if it wants to, even aside from zoning restrictions from the municipality.
Lemme check Google Maps.
Yeah, it’s the “Northwest Plaza” shopping center. Looks like they share a building with a pet food store and a UPS store and such, and there are other buildings in the shopping center.
Yeah, and at Street View level, you can see that there are more businesses in the same building. Like, a buffet restaurant, a pharmacy, etc.
Like, setting aside the whole question of whether society should subsidize more housing, this just isn’t somewhere that it makes a lot of sense to put someone, even if that’s the aim.
Lawyers ruin everything.
Sometimes, but building codes and regulations are more than just liability, remember safety regulations are almost always written in blood.
But they sure do use a lot of paragraphs to do so
OK? That doesn’t change the fact that she’s now homeless.
For good reasons, and you can’t blame the ones who were forced to kick her out, get it?
At no point did I state otherwise.
I mean… She isn’t there anymore
