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Just raising the minimum wage won’t do anything other than intensify class warfare for anyone who isn’t rich or mildly rich (making more than 200k per year) and work further in the Republicans favor. What needs to happen is this:
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Cut social security entirely (all this shit does is support the old rich fucks) and instead initiate a universal basic income which yields a yearly income equivalent to working a full time job at 18.50 an hour. Why 18.50? Because that’s the amount needed to cover the cost between the 7.50 minimum wage and 26 an hour which is where the minimum wage would be if wages hadn’t stagnated. Furthermore this increases everyone’s wealth by the same amount so the people at the top effectively get nothing while the middle class is also helped in addition to those near the poverty line (effectively mitigating potential class warfare). Also the homeless would be helped, whereas a minimum wage increase would only help those with jobs.
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Pay for the UBI with taxes that massive tax anyone effectively making over 1million a year. This means corporations and billionaires. In order to do this we have to break the slimy garbage they pull to leverage their non-liquid wealth to avoid paying any taxes while further increasing their billions.
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Impose strict regulations on corporations so that they cannot arbitrarily raise their costs in response to the newly raised tax rates.
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US has the cheapest houses in the world, the fuck are you taking about?
If there’s no corresponding regulation on rent prices, minimum wage is irrelevant.
Raise the minimum wage to a bazillion dollars? Great! Rent is now three hundred bajillion!
Raise the minimum wage to $25/hr, tie it to inflation… Use the $67billion a year spent on section 8 housing to build people houses which they end up owning, instead of shoveling all that money into slumlords’ pockets. Flood the housing market with supply to keep the prices down, even as people are able to afford more.
Raise the minimum wage to $25/hr, tie it to inflation…
I fully believe this would cause runaway inflation as wages only went up and up as the majority of americans have more money and thus prices can be raised. This cycle would constantly repeat as raised prices cause a raise in wage until the american dollar is worthless and we’re all making millions or billions of dollars a year which adjusted to inflation… is like today’s $15/hr. Interest rates for loans would skyrocket to an unfathomable percentage as double digit inflation remains y/y.
The billionaires would quickly turn into trillionaires and quadrillionaires as their investments rise in price proportional to inflation.
Inflation is happening anyway… Prices keep going up and up regardless of whether pay increases enough for people to afford them
So basically the idea is to just make everyone make the same amount of money unless they are very rich, in which case they are going to have their total compensation pegged to 300x+++ of minimum (or some other absurd number.)
It’s all bullshit man. Crazy minimum wage hikes are never going to become law in the united states.
I fully believe this would cause runaway inflation
https://fortune.com/2023/05/30/inflation-worker-pay-not-a-major-cause-fed-study/
https://archive.riksbank.se/Upload/WorkingPapers/WP_159.pdf (PDF Warning)
https://www.upjohn.org/research-highlights/does-increasing-minimum-wage-lead-higher-prices
Please don’t believe BS.
I’m glad someone made this point. Raising the federal minimum wage too fast is a great way to cause inflation. Control rent and interest rates and creep minimum wage up in steps, going to $15 federal would be great for a while but isn’t a stable solve. We can start establishing a living wage economy slowly, especially where many states still tax food and health essentials. $7.25 is embarrassing, but funnily enough, it is still the 17th highest across all countries.
Your defeatism is toxic and not supported by evidence.
So I’m curious. When you feel compelled to shit on some random Internet stranger with no apparent substantiation beyond general anger, do you prefer virtual toilet paper or a digital bidet?
You tell me I’ve no evidence, and that’s pretty much true as I’m just making a casual remark, but you’re taking it upon yourself to verbally attack me with words like toxic without providing any basis yourself.
The rest of this conversation is level headed, some agreeing, some disagreeing, some expanding on the thought.
But you’ve just got to scratch that Internet hemorrhoidal itch.
Yes. Good meme. More like this.
Except the Dems have controlled the house, Senate and Presidency since 2009…
I mean. 2021-2023 Biden had House and Senate majorities…
Did I miss something?
Was it that as soon as we had a majority just enough Dems said they wouldn’t vote with the party? And then party leaders saying “welp, trying would be pointless”?
Is that what I missed?
Don’t get me wrong, it should work the way your meme makes it sound. But unfortunately the rich bought out both parties awhile ago.
It’s why Biden and the DNC have their PAC, the Biden Victory Fund, that coordinates directly with the candidate and party, and you can give up to a million!
They play both sides so that even when we win, we lose.
We just try to lose less.
Trying to win means votes too…
It cost Biden over a billion last election to barely win, this year they’re predicting it will cost 2 billion
The reason we’re told we’re tuck with bad candidates who take corporate money, is it costs that much to win and the only way to get is billionaires and corporations…
But that’s not true, only “moderates” need that to win.
Jimmy Carter didn’t need it. Bill Clinton didn’t need it, Obama didn’t need it…
Bernie was able to run a competitive primary against Hillary without it too.
I don’t know why people act like Hillary and Biden are normal, they’re terrible candidates voters don’t like, but we don’t have a say in it anymore. The DNC took Biden on a victory lap before the majority of states even voted.
Shit was still bad 20/30 years ago, but it wasn’t as bad as the last decade.
Like, I’ve never understood the rationale that because trump is so dangerous, we had to run candidates that voters from both parties strongly dislike.
That’s why I’m voting Trump.
Everywhere I see you, you’re fabricating facts.
Democrats have controlled the Senate and the House for six years since 2009.
Only four of those years included a Democratic President.
They were two, non-consecutive two-year terms, a decade apart, with different Presidents.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_divisions_of_United_States_Congresses
Like fucking clockwork. Goddamn you’re so predictable.
There’s a reason the right have earned the label of the poorly educated. This guy doesn’t realize a simple majority in the senate isn’t enough to move legislation.
It’s covered endless in the political news cycles but morons cannot retain the information and spout the most banal nonsense as if they’re uncovering some grand conspiracy that they aline have discovered.
If such people could feel shame they would still spread their bullshit because they don’t realize how far down left side of intelligence the curve they are.
It would be entertaining if they weren’t voters.
This guy doesn’t realize a simple majority in the senate isn’t enough to move legislation.
Democrats could have changed that any time they had control of the Senate with a simple majority vote.
They chose not to.
this is an “i’m rubber you’re glue” moment for the ages
That makes no sense. But nice try.
people whining that obvious criticisms of biden are made “like clockwork” while offering absolutely no counterclaim happen “like fucking clockwork”, because goddamn, you’re so predictable.
Nah, you’re just stupid enough to fall for the posters bs. He’s got a long history of spreading misinformation and propaganda. But go ahead and keep drinking that kool aid champ.
circling the wagons and ignoring any criticism of democrats come hell or high water because their only possible source is clandestine trump supporters IS drinking the kool aid
Ironic.
Another day, another fascist account to ban
8 members of the Democratic caucus in the senate hate workers so much that they voted against increasing the minimum wage.
Pretending that anyone who notices is "both sides"ing is insulting to the workers Democrats said they totally wanted to help and then betrayed.
The party expects perfect lockstep from the electorate, but doesn’t care about voting with the party when it comes time for the elected to do what we voted them in for.
They don’t expect perfect lockstep from the electorate, they don’t even expect 41 out of 48 voters like they voted. They have literally never gotten it either.
They don’t expect perfect lockstep from the electorate
Vote blue no matter who.
Just checking here, what percentage of blue representatives voted for and what percentage of red representatives voted for? I think that’s where you’ll find the answer for why you vote blue no matter who, because people’s lives are on the line, not because they’re perfect. Then you harass that blue candidate, 'cause fuck those centrists. Still better than the fascists in the far right, though.
Nice diversion. I answered your question about Democrats demanding lockstep behind even their shittiest anti-worker candidates.
I never asked you a question.
Because the alternative is fascists, you dunce. You can’t move the needle left if there’s no needle. Vote blue no matter who has to do with not letting fascists take away our rights and kill women who need abortions.
It’s not Democrats asking you to vote blue no matter who, it’s your fellow Americans who don’t want a fascist takeover. It’s common sense that shouldn’t even need a slogan.
You can’t move the needle left if there’s no needle.
You don’t move the needle by being content, either. Which is why centrists are so fucking angry at people who aren’t pleased as fucking punch at all the deliberate failure of the second worst party.
That’s why I wrote this
Then you harass that blue candidate
We have three powers of control over politicians
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vote
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protest
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media
That’s why they work so hard to take away, delegitimize or sow distrust in those powers. You want to move the needle left, you vote as left as possible and protest and harass them until they do what you want.
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You keep saying “Democrats” and “the party”
Tell me, which party was it that voted in pefect lock step against? Surely by your statements it’s the Democrats…
Oh? It’s not?
Only 8 of the 48 Democrats voted against it?
Well fiddly fee fuck me it sure seems both sides are the same and every Democrat hates workers and would never vote yes for a minimum wage increase
I didn’t vote for Republicans.
I’m not being told that voting for more Republicans will totally get a minimum wage increase passed.
We gave Democrats a majority. They found enough no votes. It’s what they do. In order to overcome the votes of those eight plus all Republicans we would need 59 Democrats in the Senate. And may as well make that an even 60 because Democrats won’t ever get rid of the filibuster.
Of course both sides aren’t the same; that’s just something centrists say when people criticize Democrats in any way at all, because it’s easier than defending the party’s deliberate uselessness.
Repugs want nothing less than slavery
Always have. And yet morons who didn’t pay attention in class talk about the party of Lincoln
They proclaim “party of Lincoln” while waving a Confederate flag without a shred of irony or self awareness.
Why don’t states with Dem majorities raise the local wage to match housing costs?
Washington State, New York, Minnesota… none of these states have escaped this problem.
Because the problem is the capitalist class is holding the government hostage with their lobbying. Shit’s class war, not culture war.
[Sic]“Don’t tell me there’s no class war, of course there’s class war. My class, the rich, started it and we’re winning.”
- Warren Buffet
the problem is the capitalist class
I hope there aren’t any capitalists outside the Republican party.
Seattle’s minimum wage is currently $19.97/hr. Why are you whining about placed that have already raised their minimum wage by a lot?
Cost of living has outpaced the sub-living wage minimum
California does. We have a state minimum wage of $15/hr, city minimum wages, (varies by the city, but here in San Diego it’s currebtly $16.85 an hour) and now food service minimum wage of $20 an hour at the state level.
You can’t pay for rent in San Diego on a $40k/year salary.
Even slums are going for $2k/mo. And food plus utilities easily puts you over the line.
$20/hr only really works if you’ve got some kind of subsidy or second job.
Oh yeah. I never said that they are keeping up with COL, but they are doing something at least. I personally think that corporations should be banned from owning residential property, but I don’t believe the political will is there to actually manage to do that.
I never said that they are keeping up with COL, but they are doing something at least.
If the cost of living outpaced the wage rate, effective wages are falling.
Don’t forget the decision banning non-competes. Apparently the decision went along ‘party lines’, with you know who Gop trying to keep them. But nooooooo, bOtH sIdEs SaMe.
Nothing is ever good enough for republican stooges.
In this case it was the gop with “corporations can do no wrong, all hail corporations”.
This thread is chock full of idiots who would vote to lower their own wages because of a spectacular misunderstanding of how inflation works.
Either that or trolls looking to encourage others to fight against raising their own wages.
Either way, it’s sickening.
When the minimum wage is not livable, you subsidize their employers with your taxes.
It’s not the minimum wage people should get. It’s the minimum we’ll accept
And “blue no matter who” means we accept people who think it doesn’t need raised
it doesn’t need raised
Wow, I hate this fucking grammatical diarrhea.
The alternative to not voting blue in general elections is not socialism, it’s republicans.
No it’s not, it’s taking control of the party back from the people that only care about donors.
It’s a private organization, but they haven’t always had the keys, it’s like a HOA.
When it’s good, no one cares who’s in charge, so shitty people sneak in.
The shitty people make things shitty, people accept it because the shits stacks up slowly.
Then one day they’re tired of it, and they have to wait till the next HOA board vote to replace them.
It’s not as easy to replace the people leading the DNC, but it’s doable.
So if 3rd party is something you think can’t happen, are you working on fixing your own party? Are you fighting to replace them?
Do you know any of their names without googling?
You seem to be getting down voted a lot for this comment, but I absolutely agree. The long term solution is to fix the DNC by replacing the corporate schills with progressives. In a city in NH in 2016 we were able to completely replace the local Democratic party with our people. It’s not even that hard, like 50 people vote in those elections.
Everyone should find out who runs their local and state Dems, and start working to replace them if they are garbage. Once the local and state chapters are taken over it won’t be hard to take the DNC
Except the party wants as little turnout as possible in the general
It’s why they started saying Biden was the winner a good 5 months before the convention and only a handful.of.primaties had happened.
Its why the stole NH’ delegates for voting progressive.
If people could show up and say who they want for president, then theyd vote down ballot tok.
The Dem party isn’t for us, it’s to take advantage of us
But it wasn’t always, and doesn’t have to keep being that way.
But I’m barely old enough to remember when it wasn’t
They certainly only want people who are going to vote for them to turn up.
I’m not sure what you mean by stole NH delegates.
I wish more people would vote down ballot. Rs almost always vote top to bottom of the ticket, Ds tend to only vote for names they’ve heard of. That’s why Republicans have taken control of so much local government. Democrats need to win the presidential race by a huge margin for enough of it to trickle down to local stuff.
Yes, the current DNC is there to work for the rich, just like the RNC. If we took over the party though, we could make it do whatever we wanted.
I’m not sure what you mean by stole NH delegates.
…
When the party took away NHs say in the Dem primary for something only their Republican state government can control.
I mean. Technically NH Dems could violated state law to keep the DNC happy like they asked, are you saying that’s what they should have done?
Because the most common sense explanation is they were made NH kept rejecting moderates like Clinton and Biden.
If we took over the party though, we could make it do whatever we wanted.
Which is what I’m saying to do, and if you haven’t noticed, the more we vote “blue no matter who” the more conservative candidates we get.
Because the DNC thinks anything left of republicans have to vote for them. From that misguided assumption. The party keeps moving right
It’s not working, it’s never worked, and to keep trying it would be fucking insanity.
Yet here we are.
If we are really willing to sacrifice anything to stop trump, why won’t Joe Biden and the DNC sacrifice anything they want?
Why do millions and millions of voters have to vote for someone they don’t want? Why can’t we run someone that agrees with the party platform and will work towards?
The party isn’t the important part, voters are. No matter how much either party tells you differently.
A general election is still about votes
If your idea of taking the party back is “voting independent in the general” I think you have absolutely no idea how elections and parties work. You’re throwing your vote away. You wanna change the party? Run in or work for local elections. Build from the bottom up, not the top down.
Or just whine and throw your vote away.
Or just whine and throw your vote away.
What is hard to understand about this?
The way to get the most votes is a younger progressive candidate.
How is saying the party should get as much votes as possible “whining”?
Is it because a younger progressive candidate isn’t who you want?
Tough shit
40% of the electorate is gen Z or Millenials.
And the majority of over 45 wants trump
You’re arguing against doing what the bulk of the Dem party wants, but some how I’m the one whining for wanting better than a coin flip chance to deal with trump anymore?
What the fuck is the logic you’re using for this shit?
No it’s because voting for a progressive third party candidate in the general election for federal office
- doesn’t work
- benefits republicans
- is the prevailing wisdom of people like you
It’s mastubatory whining. You get to claim that anyone who cares about actual outcomes is somehow less pure than you while you are absolved of any of the responsibilities of your vote. You wanna pretend voting third party for president helps? Bully for you. It fucking doesn’t help progressives, it helped Trump get elected and it will do it again.
You get to claim that anyone who cares about actual outcomes is somehow less pure than you
That’s not the discussion.
The discussion is a younger more progressive candidate is what the base wants, so why aren’t we giving it to them?
40% of this electorate is either Gen Z or Millenial.
And over 45 years old is going to trump.
So why isn’t the DNC going after all those voters so that we can beat Trump?
Stop thinking about if you’re right and how people under 40 are “whining” and start thinking about the best way to beat Trump:
Running a popular candidate. Whether that means Biden starts listening to his voters and becomes more popular, or running someone less than 20 years over retirement age.
I just don’t understand the logic of:
This demographic wants progress, but fuck em we control the party so they have to vote for us. It would be crazy for us to give them what they want and guarantee victory. So we’ll call them babies and blame them when our unpopular candidates loses.
If moderates are the “adults in the room” why are they the ones who won’t entertain the idea of voting for something a little different they want if it guarantees victory?
Why not just do that?
Economics shenaniganery means that just raising the minimum wage will likely just raise prices.
The state apparatus should probably regulate the prices too, and improve the public housing projects.
I love that all the Usual Suspects showed up on this thread to push “BOTH SIDES”.
if you want affordable housing we need to de-commodify it and get the investors out. no more airbnb, no more one investor group owning 10s of thousands of single family homes. Dumping regular people’s money into this system, even if we give them a bunch extra, is only gonna drive prices even further up. The necessities of living are not speculation opportunities for the ultra rich.
Right, I hate when people ask me if I want to buy a house to invest or to live.
Bitch, I can barely afford one and if I could buy multiple, I wouldn’t because I’m not a piece of shit.
hard same. I’m just tryna actually have something at the end of a lifetime of paying hundreds of thousands of dollars just for the privilege of remaining alive. But the people who already have most of everything are like “Why shouldn’t I have all of this guy’s money and the house?” Swear to God we’ll only have to eat one of them and the rest will fall right back in line.
if you want affordable housing we need to de-commodify it
How would you implement that?
A combination of taxes to the point it’s slightly less lucrative than other forms of investing.
I always find it strange when people call for more government intervention to fix problems that government intervention created.
I find it strange people find Thatcherisms to be witty.
Government isn’t a monolith, nor are the parties that run it.
Government isn’t a monolith, nor are the parties that run it.
Indeed, big government is a behemoth where one hand doesn’t know what the other does and it doesn’t think past the next election cycle. Do you think that replacing parts of the brain can change anything about that?
If we’re using the brain as a metaphor, I would say don’t listen to the voices that are telling you that having a brain is the problem.
We need to remove mortgage backed securities as well housing shouldn’t be part of a portfolio… I am really hating how properties in in demand areas is allowed to sit and decay. There are many properties in Manhattan that have done nothing for decades. There also needs to be fewer regulations with regard to what can be done with them. I really wouldn’t mind a decent Japanese style pod hotel if the price was like $10. An old office building would do well for that.
Mortgage backed securities are a huge part of the mortgage market. Without them it would be more difficult to get a mortgage as there would be less liquidity in the market. The low rates caused a problem though, because investors sought better returns than 1-2% and bought real estate directly.
Sprinkle in some Gay Communism in the form of public housing.
I’m not sure housing is even a commodity currently. Commodities tend to be interchangeable and generally are affordable or low margin. None of those is true with housing currently.
You’re kind of right, but housing is definitely used as an investment vehicle for rent seekers nowadays.
Investment and commodity are different things. You can invest in commodities, but it’s different than investments in the stock market.
No more AirBNB for entire properties… If you need to rent out a room a few nights a week to get by it shouldn’t be a problem banning those does a disservice to people who want to take a vacation without be thousands of dollars in the red, and for home owners and renters strapped for cash. Plus it would give hotels clear monopoly status, and reduce choices for basic accommodations for travelers.
This is the correct answer. If minimum wages go up, the price of everything you buy with those wages increases as well, including housing. There’s artificial scarcity in housing right now because of investment firms and property management firms.
wages drive inflation but it’s not 1:1 and it does tend to benefit low earners.
Lot of dems voted against it too
The 2021 federal minimum wage vote had 41 Yea votes from Democrats, 1 from Independent. 7 Democrats and 1 Independent voted Nay. Every single Republican voted Nay.
Do you consider 7 out of 48 Dems to be a lot? Versus every single republican?
What percentage of Sanders supporters do you imagine voted for Trump?
Do you suppose it’s higher than the percentage of Democrats in the Senate who were willing to go on record as hating workers by voting to kill the minimum wage increase?
Because Sanders supporters are still catching shit for the loss Clinton earned, regardless of who they actually voted for in 2016.
If we’re expected to vote like the party wants, why aren’t legislators?
Nice whataboutism.
I suppose it makes little sense to you that I was comparing centrists not getting what they want (Clinton’s coronation) to centrists getting exactly what they all want (no increase to the minimum wage.).
Yeah, Kirsten Sinema (currently an independent and dropped out) and Joe Manchin (who will also be gone soon).
So by “many” you mean “two”?And do you think if those two senators are replaced with GOP senators it will make an increase in minimum wage more likely?
The “uniparty” meme is a Marjorie Taylor Greene thing. Do you agree with the space laser lady?
Hello from California! Democrat majority everywhere but it’s “still too hard” to do it. Things that make you go hmmmm
Some of the strongest worker protections in the country and the CCPA. Really makes you wonder how much more you could get if young adults actually voted in elections.
