At one point during the interrogation, the investigators even threatened to have his pet Labrador Retriever, Margosha, euthanized as a stray, and brought the dog into the room so he could say goodbye. “OK? Your dog’s now gone, forget about it,” said an investigator.
Finally, after curling up with the dog on the floor, Perez broke down and confessed. He said he had stabbed his father multiple times with a pair of scissors during an altercation in which his father hit Perez over the head with a beer bottle.
Perez’s father wasn’t dead — or even missing. Thomas Sr. was at Los Angeles International Airport waiting for a flight to see his daughter in Northern California. But police didn’t immediately tell Perez.
I don’t understand what’s the point ? Why would the police even do that ? I mean, unless they are psychopath of some kind ? Why would they lose 17hours of their time like that ?
That’s unbelievable.
When shit like this happens, we need an armed mob outside the department the next day.
armed mob
dare I ask why they should be armed? what good do you think will come from that?
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It is insurance, in case the cops respond with force.
and you think you’ll just get away with shooting a cop?? even if they were guilty you’d be gunned down by their buddies in your sleep.
If the protesters outnumber the cops and are all armed, the cops would likely fall back or be outgunned, even if the protesters take losses.
Those fucking bastard pigs are already an armed mob and they’re more armed than we’d ever be. There’s no winning against them in any “fair” fight.
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For legitimate self defence
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ACAB - but don’t advocate killing ANYONE.
Can I report comments that promote meat eating for promoting killing?
Oh, people have tried, they get laughed off and ignored.
Well that seems like a double standard. What makes a cop’s life worth more than an innocent cow? Some kind of supposed biological supremacy?
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In the US cops routinely beat up unarmed peaceful protestors while being pretty respectful to armed but still ostensibly peaceful protestors.
Tis but a coincidence
Peace would be ideal. But the reality is that with the manageable sized protesters that show up, they would probably order the crowd to disperse and when they don’t, you’re likely to be beaten, tear gased, and arrested by some militant armed thugs in riot gear despite being peaceful. It might make rounds in the news for a couple of days then everyone would forget about it before long and nothing will change as usual. All the while the ones who sit above the law (you know, the class that cops protect) are laughing away while sipping fancy wine in their gilded towers with private security, looking down at the entertaining misfortune of the poor batteries that power their money printing machine.
How are these cops not under arrest by the FBI and why aren’t they on trial??
How is it they’re not treated like the criminals they are?!
Different orgs, same cartel
Because all cops are bastards. The system is working as intended.
There was a case here in Sweden where the Swedish police was tipped off on a potential paedophile by an American agency that had trawled through Yahoo email and found suspected CSAM. Swedish Police essentially swatted this man, assaulted him early in the morning, while he was in his bed sleeping, took him away without telling him what was going on; he thought he was being kidnapped. Eventually when it was made clear that the materials were private photos of him and his 30 year old boyfriend getting it on, they faced no repercussions.
The reasoning behind it? The police were masked so they couldn’t single out who was responsible for the assault. Of course they knew who was present, but since they didn’t know the actual perps it’d be unfair to investigate properly because that’d put them all under unfair suspicion, and it obviously wouldn’t be reasonable to punish all of the police present.
But it’s perfectly okay to beat the shit out of someone they think is a paedophile, and honestly it’s probably because he’s of middle-eastern descent.
Please don’t spread misinformation.
- Article about the event on SVT
- Article on how the officers were never questioned
- Article on how video evidence (and the lack thereof in this case) is often critical when it comes to punishing misbehaving cops
- Article about the event on Kontext
- Article on how cases like these often don’t lead to any sort of punishment
- Follow-up with a chief of police on the event, who tries very hard to say that the thing didn’t happen without outright stating that the victim is lying
Knock yourself out, sweaty.
that’s not all cops, not even close.
All cops participate in a system of state-sponsored cruelty, racism, corruption, and violence. Their purpose is to suppress minorities and the poor in the interest of capital. Any cop who participates in this system is culpable for its outcomes even if they personally did not engage in unlawful or cruel behavior.
So yes, all cops are bastards.
I’m not sure by now but I used to think that some of fresh cops may be all right and they usually get removed from cops soon.
At least, I can imagine how one can want to do good until they’re shown and/or involved in the actual crap on their first day or month of work.
I know of non-US corrupt police practices that boils down to “order something illegal to be done in a group with a newbie”. If ey refuse it’s goodbye immediately, if ey agree however reluctant ey is already a criminal and if something happens ey can get accused and get a jail. This makes every cop a possible target and they are very loyal out of fear, it seems
I’ve tried and failed to find an article telling this story. Do you have a link?
It honestly wasn’t as covered as it ought have been. SVT has a couple of articles, as well as an outlet called Kontext Press.
- Article about the event on SVT
- Article on how the officers were never questioned
- Article on how video evidence (and the lack thereof in this case) is often critical when it comes to punishing misbehaving cops
There’s also three articles on Kontext. I hadn’t heard of Kontext before, and was thus rather suspicious of the whole thing; it all sounds too American to be true. SVT however is a very reputable source.
- Article about the event on Kontext
- Article on how cases like these often don’t lead to any sort of punishment
- Follow-up with a chief of police on the event, who tries very hard to say that the thing didn’t happen without outright stating that the victim is lying
It’s all in Swedish. I’ve tried and failed to locate sources in English before. This event wasn’t reported on nearly as much as I personally would’ve liked to see. My impression of Swedish police has always been a positive one, but this kind of thing is beyond unforgivable.
This wasn’t a bug, it was a feature.
to all the people talking about malpractice insurance here.
Please stop, like seriously, what the fuck are you blabbering on about? You’re arguing that we should pay a private sector company, who’s entire goal is to make money, using tax dollars, to then use those tax dollars they got (but only some of them because we make profit, remember?) and then give that money to people who win cases against insurance.
This is an objectively worse solution. The current system with lawsuits against the state is much more efficient, and has this cool little thing where we don’t randomly decide to give money to a fucking insurance company of all things…
you are literally suggesting we create a state funded extortion company.
Not sure who you’re listening to but no one has suggested using tax dollars for the insurance. The cops have to pay for it, if they do shit and get sued, the insurance company pays out. They like their profit, so they drop the cops that lose them money. Cops can’t get a job as a cop if they can’t be insured.
Lawsuits against cops punishes the community since they are the ones paying out, not the cop. And typically cops see little to no repurcussions. If there are it’s just off to the next town over and get hired there. You can’t fix bad behavior with no consequences.
I work in police professional liability claims / litigation. The general public has no fucking idea how much money is paid for shit on the daily. Only the few that hit the media cycle. It’s truly absurd and it’s in every state and every city town Burrough etc. It should make people’s blood boil way more than it does
Not sure who you’re listening to but no one has suggested using tax dollars for the insurance.
remind me again who pays the cops salary?
They like their profit, so they drop the cops that lose them money. Cops can’t get a job as a cop if they can’t be insured.
or they just don’t pay out claims, because not paying out claims, and raising premiums is an even better way of making money.
Lawsuits against cops punishes the community since they are the ones paying out, not the cop. And typically cops see little to no repurcussions. If there are it’s just off to the next town over and get hired there. You can’t fix bad behavior with no consequences.
i fail to see how this punishes the community any more than paying cops tax dollars, to pay insurance companies, who would then have to deal with problems, which not only adds more bureaucracy to the problem, but less efficient cash flow.
We should be creating a legal solution to this problem, rather than a private sector solution to this problem. Cop does something reprehensible? Bar them from working law enforcement for life. Pay out with tax dollars, because it’s going to be more accessible, and much more efficient than traveling through an entire insurance and claims system. I don’t really mind paying tax money if it means people who were wronged by previously spent tax dollarly doos. I have a problem with a dysfunctional system that does nothing to remove the dysfunction.
Putting insurance in the mix here does nothing to remove the problem, it just disincentivizes it, while making the whole system vastly more bloated and bureaucratic.
Lawsuits against cops punishes the community since they are the ones paying out, not the cop. And typically cops see little to no repurcussions. If there are it’s just off to the next town over and get hired there. You can’t fix bad behavior with no consequences.
genuine question, how is this any different from forcing cops to pay for insurance, which is paid out of pocket. Why is a for profit industry, which then leads to less state money getting to the people who need it. If we actually punish cops while benefiting the offended party, this would solve the problem.
Yeah what we need is criminal incompetence laws for police, and they need to be consistently enforced. This was a serious crime the police committed and they need to be punished for it criminally
exactly, we need a more strict system, which forces proper etiquette to exist, as well as the surrounding legal structure to enforce it.
Fuck the police.
So taxpayers are paying this right?
The cops responsible should be forced to give every penny they have to their name. Cash, property, investments, 401k, the clothes on their fucking back. Then they can go work in those prison chain gangs for 8 dollars a day picking up trash on the streets to pay off the remaining debt. Unironically.
The tax payer pays up almost $1M and these scumbags remain employed. How predictable.
Also, just in case anyone isn’t aware: rule number one if you’re in the US and police ever bring you in and try to interrogate you is to shut down and demand a lawyer. Legally, the interview has to stop immediately until you have one present. If the officers don’t comply, then you know they’re corrupt and there’s no reason to believe anything they say from that point onwards.
The money should come from police department retirement money
The money should come from municipal funds. What’s that? Can’t afford parks and other basic services anymore? Too bad, maybe you should pay attention and vote.
.
I think it should come from the union, and directly from the pensions.
Why?
This is about changing culture. It’s not one bad cop in isolation; this is a system of bad cops in league.
If a 30 year officer is hiring having their ability to retire threatened by a rookie cops behavior, that sr. officer WILL not be accepting any bullshit from the rookie.
If you want to change the culture it has to come from within the institution and their needs to be a forcing function to do so.
I agree with the sentiment but then we get into the moral issues of collective punishment. I’d rather the individuals at fault suffer the financial hardships along with anyone who tries to help them cover it up.
Punishing the entire group incentivizes the entire group to help hide it.
Then you know the fun is just beginning
Unfortunately, there has been precedent for the argument that the right to remain silent is one that needs to be continuously and positively invoked.
So if they keep interrogating you and you choose to start talking, that can be interpreted as you waiving your right to remain silent.https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/questioning-after-claiming-miranda.html
https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/when-how-invoke-your-right-silence.html
Remaining silent is not enough, you have to articulate that you want to invoke your right to remain silent, unambiguously request a lawyer (no “I think I should have a lawyer for this”), and request a lawyer generally (no “I want a lawyer before I answer any questions about where I was”).
“I am invoking my right to remain silent and I want a lawyer” is basically all you should say.
The ACLU remains an excellent resource for being aware of your rights.
It’s fun to mock sovcit whackos, but this is the sort of thing that gives them the idea that there are magic words they can invoke that let them wallhack through the legal system. The judicial system has spent literally hundreds of years working hand-in-glove with police and prosecutors to make it as difficult as possible for the everyday citizen to exercise the legal rights that protect you from them, and only by knowing exactly how to navigate the legal labyrinth set up between you and those rights can you actually use them.
A lot of it’s not intentionally for that purpose, but a side effect of hundreds of years of arguing over wording and what exactly the law means in different situations.
The cases that caused the “disagreeable” (most polite phrases I can think of) changes to Miranda protections happened only in the past few decades.
It’s still preposterous that the system, which is constitutionally pretty obviously slanted against the government, is so eager to find loopholes in protections for people to the advantage of the government.
Yeah, the police should be required to ask if you wish to remain silent and if you’d like a lawyer
My father-in-law is a defense attorney for juveniles, he always said that the best thing to say is " I understand you guys are just doing your jobs, and I really would like to cooperate, but to do so I need a lawyer present".
Otherwise they can basically classify you as a combative witness, or claim that you are interfering with an ongoing investigation.
By saying that you really want to help, it puts the imperative of wasting time on their end. If you guys need the information that bad, you should be rushing to get some representation here as fast as possible.
Its kinda bullshit that to get proper treatment people need to know a bunch of little phrases to throw out like a secret password. Fuck cops for real
True, but, that’s kind of something you have to do for anyone in really any position of authority generally.
ACAB
I watched this video a few years ago. You can tell its age, but I found it very enlighting. In it a lawyer explains why you should never talk to the police even if you’re innocent:
I read this guy’s book, “You have the right to remain innocent”. Definitely reinforced my ACAB inclinations.
I was going to link that but you already got it covered!
So what you’re saying is a simple law proposal of “you cannot ask questions without a lawyer present. Any interview done without legal representation is illegal and inadmissible.” Would do wonders for civil rights?
They’ll just have an in-house “lawyer” present in the room. Boom, law complied with, abuse continues.
See, this is why I’m not writing the full text of the law right here. That would be up to legal experts. I figured “The official legal representation of the person being interviewed” would have been a given, but here we are…
Also noteworthy for visitors to the U.S.: The police are allowed to lie to you.
The police are allowed to lie to you.
They’re also allowed to just be flat-out wrong about stuff. Like, for example, the law. You’d think as enforcers of the law they would be legally required to actually know the law, but that’s a big nope.
The police are allowed to lie to you.
The pig is allowed to lie to you pretty much everywhere.
They can lie to you here or there.
They can lie to you anywhere.
Not only will they lie to you, they will tell you that lying to them is also a crime. Cops are not your friend.
They are not allowed to lie in court, under oath… but they will anyway. To protect their illegal searches, their planted evidence, their bullying and excessive force, or just to save another cop they don’t even like! It’s called “the Blue Wall” and they will kill you or send you to prison to defend their right to be above the law…
The police are trained to lie to you.
Full stop. Never ever talk to the police under any circumstances.
It’s my turn to share it again! The most important video for any American to watch:
Is it Shut The Fuck Up Friday already!?
Every day is Shut The Fuck Up Friday!
“Anything you say or do can and will be used against you in a court of law,”
Used AGAINST you, not FOR you. No attorney has ever said, “I’m so glad my client spoke to the police.”
Never speak to the cops without an attorney.
Am I under arrest?
No -> goodbye
Yes -> lawyer -> STFU
But if they’re corrupt and don’t care about your rights, then that’s more reason to fear them. They threatened to kill his dog, that’s what broke him. And they probably would have.
You are a fucking shitty investigator if you have to threaten to kill a man’s dog to get him to talk. I’m surprised this guy still has all of his fingernails.
ACAB
Tbh, I don’t consider these officers to be human. They don’t really deserve human rights.
Any officers
I mean it sounds like they tortured this man for fun. Absolutely harrowing. ACAB holds true.
I mean, they’re not officers. They’re criminals in blue, hiding behind a badge.
To these people, making sure everyone knows they’re ‘police’ is important to them, it’s they’re entire identity. So strip then of that.
But they are police officers, that’s the problem. And there are still others doing this and worse, and they’re all protected.
don’t they have any law enforcement there?
Sadism. The pigs enjoyed watching him suffer. It’s the simplest and most obvious explanation, and all that bullshit about smelling blood is a lie designed to cover their tracks.
In a slightly more just society, that $900,000 would have come out of the bastards’ malpractice insurance, their careers would be destroyed, and they would face investigation by an independent civilian oversight committee & face harassment / abuse charges.
A society that was slightly better still would see them afraid to show their fucking faces in that town ever again.
Perez was not released until after the end of the three-day psychological observation period. He then retrieved his dog from Riverside County Animal Services, tracking her down through an implanted chip, Steering said.
They didn’t even give his fucking dog back!!!
As a responsible pet owner, that makes me unbelievably angry. Bad decisions would follow. I would likely go to jail for my actions and argue that I can’t be held fully responsible on account of my reasonable and extreme rage.
To be honest, were I in that guy’s position and they threatened to euthanize my dog and brought him to me to say goodbye, that likely would have been the ultimate end of my stint in free society right there. Zero chance I don’t try to kill them with my bare hands when my sanity is already hanging by a thread. In my opinion this fully qualifies as psychological torture, and no person has any duty to suffer it quietly or otherwise.
malpractice insurance
i like the romanticism of insurance companies somehow wanting to pay out people who are being fucked over by the police.
Bro they’re literally only here to make money, what makes you think an insurance company backing the fucking police of all things, is going to pay out victims lmao.
Also this is kind of a stupid take, because these people are literally paid by tax money, if they had to pay for insurance, that would just be covered with tax money, that has been taxed, so we get like a little bit of return on it. This doesn’t even solve the tax payer problem fully lmao, plus now we have an entire business who’s entire existence is making money, and actively employs a shit ton of private sector people, which also means now we’re paying private sector employees doing a job that arguably shouldn’t exist, with fucking tax money.
The insurance company doesn’t get to make that call, the courts do. The insurance company gets to dictate the premiums each cop has to pay.
i guess so, but why even have an insurance company at all at that point, just institute proper punishments for offending officers, and pay out a case using tax payer money directly.
Unless we’re suggesting a realm where this insurance company is state run i don’t see this saving anybody money anywhere.
The point is that the cost of lawsuits would come out of the police officer’s pockets due to higher premiums, instead of out of tax payer’s pockets which means the officers don’t care.
institute proper punishments for offending officers
That is a fantastic idea I whole heartedly agree with. Who is in charge of assigning the punishments? Police unions refuse to have civilian oversight.
The point is that the cost of lawsuits would come out of the police officer’s pockets due to higher premiums
man, it’s a good thing police forces are private institutions funded by their own dollar.
Surely nothing bad could ever come of this arrangement.
That is a fantastic idea I whole heartedly agree with. Who is in charge of assigning the punishments? Police unions refuse to have civilian oversight.
legally, it should be the court, and a jury. Though we should also institute some protections against criminal enterprising, because it could be very easy to stack a court against them.
man, it’s a good thing police forces are private institutions funded by their own dollar.
That’s the entire point. Police stations are tax funded. They torture someone into a false confession and the station gets fined $900 000, which comes from taxes, so they don’t fucking care.
What I said was: the cost of lawsuits would come out of the police officer’s pockets, not the police precinct’s. The Officers would be paying the insurance costs out of their paychecks. Each lawsuit means the officer ends up with less money. If a specific precinct keeps having lawsuits against it that will result in higher rates for working in a “high risk precinct”. Lawsuits should result in financial consequences for the people involved, not for tax payers.
legally, it should be the court, and a jury.
There should absolutely be legal consequences for the officers involved here. How much do you want to bet there won’t be?
That’s the entire point. Police stations are tax funded. They torture someone into a false confession and the station gets fined $900 000, which comes from taxes, so they don’t fucking care.
the problem here is that they aren’t reprimanded or punished, they need to be, not that the tax payers pay someone who was abused by an institution funded by tax dollary doos.
the cost of lawsuits would come out of the police officer’s pockets, not the police precinct’s. The Officers would be paying the insurance costs out of their paychecks. Each lawsuit means the officer ends up with less money. If a specific precinct keeps having lawsuits against it that will result in higher rates for working in a “high risk precinct”. Lawsuits should result in financial consequences for the people involved, not for tax payers.
a decent trick here would be forcing the police dept to represent itself, or the officers more specifically. That would come out of the budget fund, and then be an immediate problem.
There should absolutely be legal consequences for the officers involved here. How much do you want to bet there won’t be?
yeah, we literally run this country though, so i don’t know why you’re sitting here trying to argue something that isn’t actually legal punishment, and then sitting here and complaining about the fact that there won’t be, even though you’re literally steel manning your own argument there.
Jesus fucking shit.
Absolutely horrifying. I’m sure this has already been said here, but it bears repeating over and over and over again: If the police bring you into an interrogation room and read you your Miranda rights IMMEDIATELY REQUEST A LAWYER. This is true even if (ESPECIALLY IF) you have done nothing wrong. Don’t give them any of this “should I have a lawyer?” or “I think I might need a lawyer” bullshit… they have and will twist that; continue to question/manipulate you. You need to state it EMPHATICALLY “I will not talk without a lawyer present, I want my lawyer present.” Legally, the police are allowed to lie to you, deceive you, and a limited amount of bashing you around verbally. There are no police badges that say “this is a good cop who is not trying to manipulate you” and never for a moment think you’re smarter than an investigator… you might be smarter than some people at some things, but these folks whole job is to manipulate people. You need a legal expert on your side.
Yeah, they aren’t going to cut you a deal or show lenience that they can’t show later. Lawyer up immediately. Fuck that “we’re on your side” stuff. They are not on your side as long as they see you as a potential criminal
Watch the “Pot Brothers” video clips that deal with traffic stops. Not exactly the same situation, but the rules are similar. Don’t talk to the cops. Cooperate, but stick to your rights, and shut the fuck up.
A man needs a name
