Doin’ muh best to shitpost.
You’re all welcome, citizens!
Heroic Trumpet Music
Farting sounds
And I’m doing my best to keep it spam-free and ad-free.
I have many, many sovereign citizens to keep us alive.
Okay, now I am imagining that you are imprisoning sovcits in your basement and farming them for insanepeoplewhatever content.
Nah I’d post videos of them if that was the case.
That’s just what someone keeping sovcits in their basement would say.
Bet those sovcits would be cits real quick in that situation ;)
I’m doing my part too!
I’m doing my
partfart too!deleted by creator
deleted by creator
You are now our king.
deleted by creator
Edit: Doesn’t exist. Someone needs to start this.
That’s the most delusional shit i’ve ever heard
There’s always one in the comment section. And today, it’s you!
Thanks for doing your part.
One of what? Quite sure I had contributed to the Lemmyverse more than most people here, I have nothing left to prove. Thx
If you’re reading this, just know that I will probably butt heads with you at some point. I can be abrasive, and I typically don’t censor what I think.
That being said, I wouldn’t choose any other social media. Lemmy makes me think of what the United States should be, disparate communities coming together to form a larger and stronger whole. I can be an asshole, spit my shit and have people discuss things with me in a rational manner - for the most part coming to a common understanding.
I’ve learned a lot about who I want to be from talking to and reading what Lemmians have to say. I will always appreciate this place.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
im taking a shit
Same
Add me to the shit list
Added
nice
This is what Lemmy is all about, right here. Just a good, honest nutsack taking a simple shit.
Oh boy…
Not yet.
Using the same client and everything works flawlessly, do your updates buddy
The janky network penetrates the enshittification
Be the change
Your presence and attention are the most precious thing on the internet.
“the future of social media” reminds me of “the year of the Linux desktop”. Like, what does that mean to you?
The most obvious explanation is that you think it will overtake corporate social media entirely. Or even exist anywhere on the same level. But that seems unrealistic.
From experience, Lemmy/Mastadon is a lot easier to pitch to potential users than Linux lol
Yeah, but we’ve been on this stressful ride before, and we know where it ends.
There were lots of attempts at a closed source proprietary Internet protocol. They have all resoundly failed, after looking unbeatable. Some folks still fondly remember the closed Internet protocols like OLE COM, ActiveX, Flash, Cold Fusion, and SilverLight, but few of us miss them. Okay, I do miss Flash games.
Good touchscreen phone operating systems were a “will this ever be matched?” trade secret at Blackberry and Apple. Now the vast majority of phones run open source Android.
Much earlier, most good-enough C compilers were expensive proprietary closed source products. Now I see very little being compiled on anything other than the free and open source GCC. Even most other programming languages and tools are now FOSS, as well. I can’t think of much for development that cracks the top 20 that isn’t FOSS. JetBrains IDEs stand out as a lone closed source hold-out.
Open standards always win, in the end.
The desktop computing default is honestly way overdue to switch to FOSS. That’s why it’s the year of the Linux desktop.
The Fediverse is here to stay, and is all that’ll be left in a couple decades. But in the meantime, it’s cozy!
Now the vast majority of phones run open source Android.
to be fair, this was almost certainly a reaction to the iphone. Still open, so there’s that.
Seems like the cycle is either:
- someone has a good idea, it’s open source.
- someone has a good idea, it’s closed source, someone else makes something similar, but open source.
Yep. It often takes quite awhile. And I honestly don’t mind supporting innovators who want to sell something closed but really good.
But as I get older, and watch the pattern over and over, I’m starting to appreciate skipping the cycle by directly adopting the open thing as early as I can.
yeah, the general rule of thumb seems to be that if it’s universal, it needs to be open. The farther niche it goes, the less open it has to be, on principle of utility. Open standards are only good people it’s so easy for them to get accepted. That’s why closed standards often just don’t go very far.
The farther niche it goes, the less open it has to be, on principle of utility.
That’s a great point! I kind of skipped over, that. Good add, thanks.
it’s a rather weird concept, but it makes sense. If you want to standardize, let’s say, threaded hardware across the continental US that you would inherently need to do away with any closed standards, assuming you want it to actually work, and along with that, whatever you settle on, needs to be open.
You could theoretically do this with closed source, but the problem here is that there will be someone that comes along and does it with open source, and if it’s better, you’re fucked. And if it’s equal, and cheaper, you’re fucked. And if it’s marginally worse, but trivial to adopt, you’re fucked.
They have all resoundly failed, after looking unbeatable
“Failed” how? Failed in that they sucked to use, yeah. Failed as in people stopped using them? No. Failed as in their profits plummeted? No. Their users are gluttons for abuse and exploitation. And their users are nearly everyone I know. They don’t care.
Now the vast majority of phones run open source Android.
No they don’t. It’s only ~50% of the US market and ~60% of the global market. Also at the time it was a very competitive market and OEMs like Nokia and Motorola all had their day. That hasn’t been true since the original iPhone some 15 years ago.
Open standards always win, in the end.
LOL no they don’t? In fact they almost always don’t.
The desktop computing default is honestly way overdue to switch to FOSS.
It will never be, for the same reason it has a whopping 4% today. It’s complicated and difficult to use, and no one is spending money on marketing to convince people to even try it.
The Fediverse…is all that’ll be left in a couple decades.
That’s nothing but a wild utopian delusion…
Honestly, I wish it were true. I wish you were right. I wish people respected themselves to take the time and learn about all the corporations that are fucking up their lives, and to take the time and learn how to take the according action, but at best they don’t care, and more often then not they will actually go out of their way to defend the corporations that are fucking them. If they cared, the corporations wouldn’t be able to fuck them, and we would live in a completely different world.
Failed" how? Failed as in people stopped using them? No. Failed as in their profits plummeted? No.
What the actual fuck?
I gave several concrete examples whose usage was originally seen as unassailable, and is now easily measured as essentially zero.
Of the examples I listed, only Shockwave still has any publicly recorded examples of actual continued use, because there’s a virtual museum dedicated to preserving it’s memory.
That’s a fine definition of a failed technology.
You’re out of your element, Donny.
Edit: Your other points are essentially that those technologies aren’t at their dominant phase yet. I can agree about that.
If you still need convincing (your clearly do) about open standards, read the history of licensed screwdrivers. Closed standards either die off, or become open ones. There are no exceptions.
Windows and iOS are both notable because, in my expert opinion, both have already missed their window of time when they could have become successful open standards.
Their respective owners actually realize that, as well. IBM Mainframe also missed that window, and there’s history available to read. We are now seeing the same business patterns (as IBM Mainframe) with Windows and iOS.
Incidentally, IBM Mainframe actually doesn’t qualify for my failed technology list, because it’s still holding on. Windows probably has similar staying power to IBM Mainframe (hanging on in zombie death for decades). iOS isn’t lucky enough to live on huge expensive machines that are hard to move, though. It’s not going to be as lucky.
My guy, you are completely overreacting.
OLE COM, ActiveX, Flash, Cold Fusion, and SilverLight
I don’t know what any of these things are but I’m pretty sure they’re not popular social media platforms. If you don’t understand why that matters then you have a fundamental lack of understanding of the situation as it stands.
You’re out of your element, Donny.
…who? are you talking to?
who? are you talking to?
Sorry. Movie quote. The Big Labowski. Check it out. It’s fun. For context, the guy that says that line is a blowhard, not to be taken too seriously. (Like me!)
I don’t know what any of these things are but I’m pretty sure they’re not popular social media platforms. If you don’t understand why that matters then you have a fundamental lack of understanding of the situation as it stands.
I understand network effects. All of my examples had large network effects supporting them, in their time.
Seriously. Open standards win. It takes flipping forever sometimes. But they do. Check into the screwdriver thing. It’s a cool read. Or for something more recent, the histories of open and closed web browsers. I think you’ll find it encouraging.
Open standards win. It takes flipping forever sometimes. But they do.
Did XMPP win? Did RSS win? Did Linux win? These open standards have been around for decades and are still not widely adopted. At what point are they considered a failure?
Is ActivityPub winning? At best it has stalled after gaining a few defectors like myself from those who are unwilling to tolerate bullshit. But at this point I think it’s abundantly clear that there is no amount of abuse that the majority of users won’t tolerate on proprietary platforms.
When open standards win, it’s usually because the platform was built on them, like email or podcasts.
Did XMPP win?
That remains to be seen. I’ll gladly accept XMPP as a point in the “against” column, as it has a long way to go, if it succeeds.
Google succeeded handily at their last round of embrace, extend, extinguish, against XMPP, by dropping support from Google Chat.
It’s worth noting that the question isn’t really whether XMPP replaces WhatsApp, it’s whether it can unseat SMS.
SMS is seriously entrenched. I don’t know it’s state of openess. My understanding is it’s mostly run/owned by a few large proprietary players.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMS
Again, I’m happy to concede that XMPP looks doomed today, like RSS did a couple decades ago.
Did RSS win?
RSS certainly hasn’t won, yet. But RSS is doing fine, behind the scenes. Most of the RSS the average person interacts with doesn’t look, to them, like RSS. There’s a lot of RSS still in wide use, today. Competing solutions are currently enshitifying (Google Search, Reddit, Facebook, Xitter), while RSS is still free and still just works.
That’s not an automatic win for RSS, until you consider that RSS has already outlived WebCrawler, Digg, MySpace and GeoCities, among others.
I’m calling it early in favor of RSS.
We’ve agreed that I am prone to do so, though.
Did Linux win?
Yes. Linux won. The vast majority of computation today runs on Linux.
Windows used to hold a serious percentage of web hosting. My best guess is it was around half. The current percentage is unknown, but generous estimates put it at 3%, at most. For some context, the Azure cloud (Microsoft’s web hosting that Office 365 runs on) is known to mostly run on Linux.
But to address the other part of your question:
Is Windows desktop going away?
Something mostly proprietary that costs money and is called Windows with be with us for a long time.
But the Windows kernel is counting it’s final days now, while most people haven’t noticed.
The Windows kernel is cool, but it’s a pure cost center and no longer offers anything that Linux doesn’t.
Game developers noticed, this year. I personally, held onto Windows desktop for decades, solely for gaming. I suspect the shift this year will turn out to be a key moment in the spin down of the Windows kernel.
A desktop OS has a ton of moving pieces. We’re currently seeing the natural trend for those pieces to take advantage of existing open solutions.
I predict that we will see more and more of that, until the switching cost reaches the current low cost of switching web browsers.
When open standards win, it’s usually because the platform was built on them, like email or podcasts.
That’s the perception I’m trying to counter with the web technology examples I gave above.
I was there building the web, on proprietary products, and I believed that, myself.
I’m delighted to report that I was wrong.
It took decades, but the far less visible corner of the web running on open technologies is now the only portion we currently still have.
With a big delightful exception for Shockwave Flash, and the folks valiantly keeping it alive to preserve it’s part in gaming history.
Hard to tell imo. Big tech has a lot of big advantages and disadvantages over us.
Being centralized and heavily funded, it’s a lot easier for them to rapidly create/change new things, for better or for worse. It also means they do a lot of the testing for us. Mastodon/Lemmy formats are figured out from what we liked from proprietary platforms, then we kept the core that made it good. We also don’t need to make a worse user experience by worrying about monetization.
We also have a lot less development, and I won’t even pretend that Mastodon or Lemmy are anywhere near well developed as Reddit/Twitter backends and other software. We simply don’t have the attention and funding to be anywhere near that level.
I don’t think we’ll ever replace big tech, but I just hope we stay on a healthy trajectory where we are alongside them in popularity.
Thank you, u/cum, for your thoughtful insight.
I still haven’t been able to give up reddit but I have always been a lurker there. Here I’m trying to make a conscious effort to participate in conversations. I’m trying to be positive, kind, and thoughtful because that’s what I want lemmy to be.
Similar here. Reddit has become, for better or worse, just another Facebook. I include in my search queries when I need. I get in for specific communities and get out immediately afterwards.
Thank you!
I started to think of Reddit as just an occasional Google search result necessary evil and have successfully ignored it ever since. Log off DKC, there’s a better world out there.
In all seriousness I think eventually conventional social media will start to feel very siloed like AOL did as more people join the fediverse. I can’t imagine using a site that I couldn’t look at everything from anymore, save for stupid ass Facebook which I do solely for sovcit material. Why would I want to look at crap ads and AI when I can be here?
I started to think of Reddit as just an occasional Google search result necessary evil and have successfully ignored it ever since.
This is my experience. I try to search elsewhere, but consistently still find good info there. Only when I exhaust other options I go crawling back.
Oh it’s no biggie if you use it to deshittify Google. It is there, after all. Just treat it like ghetto Wikipedia and don’t hang around. Haha.
The future is decentralized, not federated. That’s why I’m on nostr, even if it doesn’t deliver yet.
Do you not know how this site works
It is decentralized.
Somebody takes out the lemmy.world server and your identity is gone. So decentralized, lol.
It weirds me out that most of the arguments for nostr I come across are around how “you can’t loose your identity, it’s just a private/public keypair!”. Maybe I just don’t get banned enough to understand the perspective, but to me the real problem is the content/discussions being lost, not usernames for some corner of the web.
I really don’t care about loosing my identity on a social media website; I’ve found it healthier to view social media accounts on the same level as my customer account at my isp and power utility. When I change ISPs, the old account is closed down and I start up a new one at the other ISP. What’s important to me is the service getting delivered, not that it remembers that I’m the same person from however many years ago. It’s still the same me here in my body, interacting with the web. I know what I need from it, it doesn’t always need to remember who I am (and sometimes I’d rather it forgot or never knew in the first place).
My final point is a bit of a troll, but also kinda serious: how decentralized is it when your identity is “centralized” in your key pair? Loose your keys or loose your password to the key, and your identity is similarly effectively gone. Even worse in this case, no-one can restore it for you. Which is why I don’t tie my identity that much to any online service, especially ones I don’t host. The only thing that truly preserves my identity is the flesh-and-blood body that I inhabit (and even that isn’t fail-proof).
I’ve interacted with GPG signing circles before. So many people are losing access to their keys. So many more are considering some of their keys as compromised. In either case they’re regularly generating wholly new keys, essentially rebooting their “identity” from scratch. When they do so, they always rely on flesh-and-blood interactions to have their new identity verified and trusted by others.
Maybe it’s a question of which circles we’re involved in; mine are already regularly hopping accounts, without being forced to by bans or server outages. I’m used to interpreting the tone & content to recognize “people”, and ignoring usernames. On top of that so many people regularly change their display names on social media for vanity and expression purposes that I can’t reliably use them anyways for recognizing accounts.
Maybe I just don’t get banned enough
You may also interact with countless bots without ever knowing, because creating fake identities is free.
I really don’t care about loosing my identity
Fair, some people value their identity.
how decentralized is it when your identity is “centralized” in your key pair?
For average people nothing changes, the app can hold their key for them and even offer email recovery.
On top of that so many people regularly change their display names on social media for vanity and expression purposes that I can’t reliably use them anyways for recognizing accounts.
That’s something having signatures and a web of trust solves.
Besides, you fail to see another problem: Whichever centralized, federated site you use can manipulate anything you read and publish.
Anyway, if you don’t see a need for tools like nostr you don’t need them.
You may also interact with countless bots without ever knowing, because creating fake identities is free.
Maybe. Bots don’t seem currently capable of holding a conversation beyond surface level remarks. I think I tend to engage with thought-provoking stuff.
On the off chance that I reply to a bot, it is as much for my reply to be read by other humans viewing the conversation. So I don’t understand how interacting with countless bots is supposed to be such a big downside.
Plus, I don’t see how public/private key pairs prevents endless “fake” identity creation/proliferation. It’s not like you need a government-issued ID to generate them (which, to be clear, still wouldn’t be great -just got other reasons).
Fair, some people value their identity.
To be clear, I’m talking about online identities. In which case, I would argue that if you value it so much you should not delegate it to some third party network. My IRL identity is incredibly valuable to me, which is why I don’t tie it up with any online communications services, especially ones I have no control over.
For average people nothing changes, the app can hold their key for them and even offer email recovery.
…so then the app can post on my behalf without me knowing? And it’ll be signed as if I had done it myself. I don’t understand preferring this if you’re not also self hosting.
That’s something having signatures and a web of trust solves.
But as I wrote in my previous message regarding gpg signing circles (a web of trust), that doesn’t “solve” things. It just introduces more layers and steps to try and compensate for an inherently impossible ideal. Unless I’m misunderstanding your point here?
Besides, you fail to see another problem: Whichever centralized, federated site you use can manipulate anything you read and publish.
I just take that for granted on the internet. It’s true that key-signing messages should make that effectively impossible for all but the largest third parties (FAANG & nation-states). But you still need to verify keys/identities through some out-of-band mechanism, otherwise aren’t you blindly trusting the decentralized network to be providing you with the “true” keys and post, as made by the human author?
Anyway, if you don’t see a need for tools like nostr you don’t need them.
Maybe I’m not expressing myself properly; I don’t see how nostr (and tools like it) effectively address that/those needs.
Sort of like how there was (arguably still is) a need for cash that governments can’t just annul or reverse transactions of, yet bitcoin and all cryptocurrencies I’m aware of fail on that front by effectively allowing state actors (who have state resources) to participate in the mining network and execute 51% attacks.
My username is not my identity.
Get a life.
Ehh. What’s the average age around here? I’m guessing it wasn’t the youth that migrated from Reddit.
Some sorta survey/census for the fediverse might be cool
We’ve had lots of them. It’s depends on the community but we’re generally older than r/, more female then you think, and slightly to very ‘techie’.
I’m not that young, but sometimes I see people here refer to their childhoods, and then I feel like a baby.
Now I feel old because my childhood was basically over before Reddit was born. Am I already old at 33? Gross!
33 old? Nah. 30s are just the start of actual adulthood (as opposed to young adulthood).
I’m OP and I’m 50 and female.
Old fucker. Your lot taught me an absurd amount of shit on IRC.
I’m 41.
I predate IRC and even web pages. I used telnet talkers!
I did my best, but we were poor.
Fuck it all.
In my mid IRC days I met Suzeran. She was fantastic. Ostensibly a man, but he identified as a young woman. Others in our group were furries or (why the fuck is furry a real word) whatever for the time. Dunno, but our old internet culture was about people, not politics.
So was mine. I mostly hung out in a largely gay men talker, and despite me being neither I made friends I still have today.
Yeah, it’s kinda nuts what we dealt with and/or loved.
My most awkward was a bro named Bronson. He made a joke anti-cuban song. He passed way too early. The Cuban bro that spawned the song was the person who told me about 9/11. “We’re under attack”
I’m in my 20s, is that considered youth?
@Wilzax @Underwaterbob yeah 😁
I’m 33. Joined up during the APIcalypse and ensuing exodus from Reddit.
Look at the baby over here. I remember 33… Actually not really.
I am 17 lol
I am in my mid 20s the kids call me old and the adults call me a kid.
Im interested in this as well
I think it’ll be skewed based on reasons people are here.
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Thank You, BotM! I migrated here from the corporate social medias as soon as I was aware. I’m still transferring my OC over from IG (not an easy task) to Pixelfed. And I use similar talking points to inform people, often about the very existence of a non-comercial social media. Very few people, maybe 2, since July '23 have even heard of the Fediverse. We shall persist!
I’m just learning about Pixelfed from your comment. Any suggestions on where to start or instances to subscribe to?
I signed on to https://social.photo/. And I’m sure I had darned good reasons for doing so at the time. LoL With federation, I’m not really sure it matters which instance one signs onto, as long as it’s not some tankie/nazi crap, of course. And of course one could self host one’s own instance.
It appears to me that, because of the absence of advertising, it is incumbent upon individuals to ‘evangelize’ and spread the fedi-gospel. :-D
I truly believe the fediverse is the future. People will tire of the AI and all that nonsense and fade away from all the big sites.
I lurk!! But, thanks y’all.
Not anymore!
Every minute you use lemmy, spez’s penis becomes 1 millimeter smaller
