i love how these threads are just people discovering the principles of game design on their own lmao
Rule #1: Maximum Game Fun
rule of kul (fun in swedish)
rul o kul?
I’ve definitely fudged rolls so something hilarious would happen, and our kittens are named after one of those scenarios.
I have just the die for such an occasion…
i’m kind of torn on this. because, if the dice are the be-all-end-all, why have a GM at the table? i’d wager the vast majority of GMs tune difficulty and pacing on the fly without realizing it, even if it’s just “i’m gonna skip this last encounter because we’re already a half hour over and i have work tomorrow” or even just “wow everyone is bored as shit right now, we outta pick up the pace” but on the other hand, I have seen a fee bad rolls in a low-stakes encounter spiral into a character dying, and it was cool as shit. that’s part of the magic of rpgs- no do-overs or back to the title screen, instead the rest of the party (or the whole party if the player rolls a new character) needs to contend and deal with being down a person. in our case we had to drag a corpse across a continent to get to a cleric powerful enough to bring him back, and in doing so accidentally let the big bad into the otherwise secure city limits. we would have completely missed out on all of that if those dice were fudged. i guess it all down to context- fudging to prevent the GM railroad from being derailed robs you of experiences, but we also have GMs at the table for a reason, and i’m ok with them using fudging when they feel it’s warranted so long as they’re not abusing it to the point where there’s no risk to anything. at the end of the day, if we’re all having fun, i trust the GM with whatever they’re doing, and if we’re not, fudging is probably a symptom of whatever actually is the issue
if the dice are the be-all-end-all, why have a GM at the table?
Dice are terrible at making battlemaps, and don’t get me started on their awful faux-Scottish accents.
Actually, dice have a better scottish accent than me by virtue of not having one at all. But you don’t join my table for quality scottish accents.
Laddie, ye betterrrrr develop ain, afore ye git strung up by yer playerrrrrs.
Bro paragraphs are your friends.
What I found in the TTRPG community is that a lot of GM’s like to hear themselves talk. They write these huge paragraphs of sentences stringed together jumping from one topic to the next.
You can even notice this in the way the D&D books are written. Instead of using easy to navigate bullet points, it is just walls of text one after the other. Trying to find some specific knowledge in that is like trying to find a needle in a haystack.
As a data nerd, I can’t stand it.
i’ve been writing a pretty big RPG module for years now and feel the same. in the beginning i was all about the prose and beauty of the written document. now, i’m just like “bullet points. go.”
if the dice are the be-all-end-all, why have a GM at the table?
Well… If the story is so important why have players at all?
Where 2 RPG players meet there are 3 opinions
Glaze at the result but donut turnover the die, it will fudge your rolls
To give the illusion that fate was on their side.
I make a point not to kill my players unless they make a habit of doing dumb shit, or it’s “almost” happened a couple times already.
Especially if I get several good rolls or they get several bad rolls in a row.
The game should be fun for everyone, and if even one player goes home upset with the session I will have considered my night a failure as DM.
Not that I consider it a failing or even “bad” if someone else kills off their players. Everyone has different expectations from games and I’ve seen fantastic role playing of deaths before.
One player ripped their heart out of their own chest, chugging a health potion to stay alive long enough to place it in their spouse who had just died died, and another player healed the spouse.
They asked me if I would allow that and honestly it sounded cool enough that I was all for it.
They asked me if I would allow that and honestly it sounded cool enough that I was all for it.
Rule of cool trumps all.
What stakes do you have in your games? What does your prep look like?
I prefer games with player-facing rolls. I also prefer emergent gameplay so I’ll roll on random charts, but that’s it. Stakes are stakes, and character death should be something in the forefront of player minds imo
Depends heavily on what you and your players want out of the game. In all the campaigns I’ve been in the focus has been storytelling and character growth, so having a character die to some random happening would be counterproductive.
There have been situations within those campaigns where we’ve done things knowing that character death was a possibility, though, and in those cases we’ve carried through if the dice fell that way. The key is having buy-in from both player and DM on those particular moments of risk. Even a regular combat could turn into one of those if the player decides to press forward into danger.
Yeah. I can see I’m clearly in the minority, but I do want my character to be able to die at any moment.
-Sam Riegal refusing to use his free advantage except the one time where it would fuck with the rest of the table
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Play a system that accounts for this.
Fate gives you fate points to spend when you do t like a roll. It also gives you “succeed at a cost” if your fate points are exhausted or not enough.
You can still just roll with it (pun intended) and die to a random goblin if that’s fun. But you also have agreed upon procedure for not doing that. “It looks like the goblin is going to gut me, but (slides fate point across the table) as it says on my sheet I’m a Battle Tested Bodyguard, so I twist at the last second and he misses (because the fate point bumps my defense roll high enough)”
This is pretty easy to import into DND, too, if you like the other parts of it
Baldurs Gate does a good job of this with the inspiration
Inspiration is already in DnD!
Inspiration in raw DND is extremely under baked. Bg3 expanded it a little by letting you hold more than one, and actually using it. Most tables I’ve played at don’t use it, or it’s pretty rare.
Fate by default starts you with 3 fate points per session. It expects you to use them and has clear ways of getting more.
I really tried to get my old DND group to use then more, but it didn’t really click. I wasn’t a good fit for that group really.
Also scrolls of revivify are so common, and even without them you can revive an ally for 100 gold with no strings attached
So that my players see me roll the dice. As long as they believe the illusion, the roll is real to them, and so their experience is meaningful and memorable; at the end of the day, that’s what matters most to me as a DM.
As long as you’re not going super hardcore, I don’t see the problem with just letting the truth of the dice decide whether a character receives a ‘fatal’ blow, only to find after the combat encounter that the character is barely alive, and the rest of the group needs to focus all their resources on triage and emergency evac.
Getting out of a dangerous place with a barely conscious character can make for a pretty tense situation.
That’s why revivify is for. What you did here is taken away a meaningful moment from a player, just because you wanted them not to make a different PC. If you want that moment, write it into the story with an NPC. Don’t keep someone alive “just because”. Playing “hardcore” has nothing to do with this - that’s about balancing enemy encounters. Don’t throw a dragon at an unprepared party sort of things.
Otherwise people will either be annoyed that a moment was taken away, come to the conclusion that their choices don’t really matter, or they would expect of you that every time a character dies, they become “half concious”. Suddenly you have a “why didn’t my char do that???” moment at the table. It’s the same with fudging dice, but when that happens, you are behind a GM screen so you are less likely to be found out. Still a shitty thing to do though.
It’s all about what sort of group you’re playing with. I run a group for some kids at my school and I know they would be heartbroken if I just straight up killed them.
I’ve only had to do this once though. I made it a lesson about caution. The player was being reckless, and they ‘died’. Seeing how distraught he was, I decided after the encounter, that the other players should roll for a perception check, and noticed the character still breathing slightly. It was nice to see the kid perk up immediately afterwards.
Some games have this built in and you don’t have to fudge it.
Fate, my go to example, has important but simple rules around losing a conflict.
At any point before someone tries to take you out, you can concede. That’s a player action and not a character action. If you concede, you get a say in what happens to your character. That’s where you as a group say “maybe they stab me but leave me for dead in the confusion” or “maybe the orcs take me prisoner so you all can rescue me next week”. Whatever the group decides is cool goes, but you get a say. You make this call before the dice are rolled. You also get one or more fate points, which is nice.
If you instead push your luck and let them roll, and their attack is more than you can take, you’re done. The rest of the table decides what happens but you don’t get a say beyond what was agreed to in session 0.
This would also be pretty easy to import into DND or most other systems.
Fudging a roll is for when I, the DM, realise I made a mistake. No, I didn’t realise this creature got a sneak attack until after I rolled that 20!
Legit, I don’t fudge rolls because it’s not fun for me.
If a roll would fuck up the session/adventure/campaign, I just straight up tell the players I’m making a call and override the results. It doesn’t happen often, and it’s really only when rng just screws things, like when you get multiple nat 1s in a session, way out of line with what makes sense without some kind of gymnastics to explain things in game.
That’s exactly what fudging rolls is though… “I’m not fudging, I’m just changing the result of the dice when it isn’t fun”
Nah, fudging is slightly different.
Fudging is saying “the roll was 19” when it was actually 18, and 18 was a fail. That’s a form of lie.
Straight up saying that the roll is being ignored totally, or that the person should roll again isn’t fudging because it’s open and honest.
I think the difference is being transparent about it. This is saying “I know that shouldn’t hit, but I’m saying it hits anyways.” Traditional fudging is “That… hits, yeah, totally.”
