The ideal is “plays fine at lowest graphics settings on old hardware” while having “high graphics settings” that look fantastic but requires too-of-the-line hardware to play reasonably.
Generally this is almost impossible to achieve.
So you’re saying there IS a chance…
When you see what ONE coder was able to do in the 80s, with 64K of RAM, on a 4MHz CPU, and in assembly, it’s quite incredible. I miss my Amstrad CPC6128 and all its good games.
When you see what they did in the 60s and 70s, where they ran an entire country’s social security system in a mainframe with a whooping 16Kb of memory (I’m not sure if it was 4 or 16, but it doesn’t make that much difference).
Still happens.
Animal Well was coded by one guy, and it was ~35mb on release (I think it’s above 100 at this point after a few updates, but still). The game is massive and pretty complex. And it’s the size of an SNES ROM.
Dwarf Fortress has to be one of the most complex simulations ever created, developed by two brothers and given out for free for several decades. The game, prior to adding actual graphics, DF was ~100mb and the Steam version is still remarkably compact.
I am consistently amazed by people’s ingenuity with this stuff.
SNES ROMs were actually around 4MB. People always spoke about them being 32 Meg or whatever, but they meant megabits.
I did like Animal Well, but gave up after looking at one of the bunny solutions and deciding I didn’t have the patience for that.
I think most of the size of games is just graphics and audio. I think the code for most games is pretty small, but for some godforsaken reason it’s really important that they include incredibly detailed doorknobs and 50 hours of high quality speech for a dozen languages in raw format.
I think most of the size of games is just graphics and audio. I think the code for most games is pretty small, but for some godforsaken reason it’s really important that they include incredibly detailed doorknobs and 50 hours of high quality speech for a dozen languages in raw format.
True. Even Xonotic - opensource game - has very small game engine, but game logic and assets(maps, textures, lightmaps) are 1 gig. And same with AltCraft - small engine, but minecraft assets are huge.
You have my vote.
Yeah, screw CEF, Electron, and webdevs who can’t live without those.
Yeah, well, I have 1.8Gb so 😏
Get yourself a drink now!
I knew someone that refused to upgrade the programmer’s workstation precisely because it would have been a big leap in performance compared to what their costumers used the software on. Needless to say the program was very fast even on weaker hardware.
That someone is me.
I can think of a few games franchises that wouldn’t have trashed their reputation if they’d have had an internal rule like “if it doesn’t play on 50% of the machines on Steam’s hardware survey, it’s not going out”
I think it’s given us a big wave of “Return to pixelated tradition” style games. When you see 16-bit sprites in the teaser, you can feel reasonably confident your computer will run it.
Unless they use Unreal Engine and don’t know what they are doing. It can be pixely and run like ass.
Octopath Traveler was the last UE based game that really ran well that I can remember.
Was that game any good? The mobile version had a Gacha mechanic that scared me off, but it otherwise looked like a really smooth SNES style JRPG.
I liked it. It’s not particularly hard or deep but the mechanics are nice, battles and encounters don’t overstay their welcome. The interwoven story was done quite nicely. I played it on PC. It runs great on Proton and Windows 7.
I haven’t played the second one, but reviews consider it an improvement. Now that they removed Denuvo I might get it.
I don’t mind if indie devs try something experimental that melts your computer. Like beamNG needs a decent computer but the target audience kinda knows about that sort of stuff.
The problem is with games like cities skylines 2. Most people buying that game probably don’t even know how much RAM they have, it shouldn’t be unplayable on a mid range PC.
Im making a 3D game now, and the goal is to get it running on a gtx 660
And it plays at 5-15 fps like Rabi-Ribi.
Planned obsolescence is one of the major engines that keep our current system of oligarchic hypercapitalism alive. Won’t anybody think of the poor oligarchs?!?
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, THINK OF THE SHAREHOLDERS!
Stop making him cry, ask him some Rampart questions!
If I can’t type the program into my TRS-80 from a computer magazine I don’t trust it.
I was going to laught at the hypocricy of you using lemmy, definitely not using your TRS-80 but I don’t trust my phone, the lemmy app or lemmy server either.
We just need to write a version of Lemmy that runs in basic on a TRS-80 and publish a magazine
Trash 80 dialing in to a Linux shell account using one of the various cli lemmy clients should work
I 100% agree. But, where Linux?
Can current Windows even work with 2GB of RAM?
Yep, minimum win 10 1gig cpu 1 gig ram (32 bit) 2gig ram (64 bit) just don’t expect much out of it lol
can we get this law passed pls
Yeah, you’d better hurry.
I’m training to work in hardware currently. Its my hope that there at least, people still care about min-maxing power vs performance.
My understanding is that hardware companies usually alternate generations: one for performance, one for power. It seems like this is the balance that makes the market happy.
It’s really hard.
Wasn’t expecting it to be easy. Think it will be much more rewarding though. Already has been thus far.
Edit: wait, that was a pun, wasn’t it?
Any recommendations for a beginner or hobbiest? I’m going to assume it goes beyond writing more performant code
A lot of it is in the design stage tbf. If features/UI can be cut or simplified then it can make a big difference. Performant code is good and the tech stack you choose also matters.
I started with raspberry pi zero projects. Specifically projects that make use of various GPIO hats like cameras, displays, speakers, etc. At that level, things are still very abstract compared to bare-metal firmware, but you learn some of the basic principles of I/O. Next plan is to read up on circuit design, and start doing more projects with arduino-controlled breadboards.
No, it was a palindrome.
In 1000 years this meme/tweet/post will be what my entire generation’s existence will be known for. Noone will remember the politics, the disasters, the geopolitical events good or bad, they will remember our entire world and existence ad the only time that technology advancement was driven by the big tech mafia trying to see how far it can get it’s dick in your digital footprint.
It’s the new cops v robbers or bootleggers v prohibition race. Our tech is getting faster to out run the corporate fuckin maleare but the faster we go the more they stuff in so to the avg user they’re ended with paying $6k for a GPU/cpu combo that runs at the same efficiency as my school library’s c9mputer did running ms-dos running Oregon Trail in 1995. You are so confined by only having access to functions with massive fuckiing app buttons that even logging in as a guest user req you to memorize every CLI ever made.
It’s become my defining “I don’t want to live in this world anymore”
You’re provoking my alcoholism. I reread your comment three times and here I am on my way to the liquor shop.
Resources are just way cheaper than developers.
It’s a lot cheaper to have double the ram than it is to pay for someone to optimize your code.
And if you’re working with code that requires that serious of resource optimization you’ll invariably end up with low level code libraries that are hard to maintain.
… But fuck the Always on internet connection and DRM for sure.
lol pay for someone. If it’s your code, you are that someone.
Companies own the code you write.
It’s not your code if you’re working for a corp - it’s theirs.
If someone else is paying you, you can write sloppy code. Got it.
Psychopath
Just because you don’t own something doesn’t mean you should trash it.
First you insist that companies don’t own the code then you say if you don’t own it you don’t have to care.
God I hope I never work with an idiot like you.
I don’t think I’m saying either of those things. I’m saying the opposite actually.
You seem to be suggesting that even though you are responsible for writing code, the company should hire someone else to optimize it for you.
Resources are just way cheaper than developers.
It’s a lot cheaper to have double the ram than it is to pay for someone to optimize your code.
I don’t see where you’re reading that idea.
It’s a lot cheaper to double the ram ergo you do not have to pay someone to optimize your code.
Where are you getting this bizarre inverse from?
My point is, developers should be writing optimized code in the first place.
You can also build a chair out of shitty plywood that falls apart when someone who weighs a bit more sits on it, instead of quality cut wood. I mean, fine if you want to make a bad product but then you’re making a bad product.
Resource optimization has nothing to do with product quality. Really good experiences can be done with shitty resource consumption. Really bad experiences can be blisteringly fast in optimization.
The reason programmers work in increasingly abstract languages is to do more with less effort at the cost of less efficient resource utilization.
Rollercoaster Tycoon was ASM. Slay the Spire was Java. They’re both excellent games.
Yeah, I don’t really have a problem with games except for the stuff added on purpose just to make the user experience worse like DRM. I was more thinking about trends like using Electron for desktop development.
I love the good old games on ASM.
If you consider only the RAM on the developers’ PCs maybe. If you count in thousands of customer PCs then optimizing the code outperforms hardware upgrades pretty fast. If because of a new Windows feature millions have to buy new hardware that’s pretty desastrous from a sustainability point of view.
As a developer, my default definition of “slow” is whether it’s slow on my machine. Not ideal, but chimp brain do chimp brain things. My eyes see my own screen all day, not yours.
But that’s just more business!
Last time I checked - your personal computer wasn’t a company cost.
Until it is nothing changes - and to be totally frank the last thing I want is to be on a corporate machine at home.
Or maybe you could actually read the comment you are replying to instead of being so confrontational? They are literally making the same point you are making, except somehow you sound dismissive, like we just need to take it.
In case you missed it they were literally saying that the fact that the real cost of running software (like the AI recall bullshit) is externalized to consumers makes companies don’t give a shit about fixing this. Like literally the same you are saying. And this means that we all, as a society, are just wasting a fuck ton of resources. But capitalism is so eficient hahaha.
But come on man, you really think that the only option is for us to run corporate machines in our homes? I don’t know if I should feel sorry about your lack of imagination, or if you are trying to strawman us here. I’m going to assume lack of imagination, don’t assume malice and all that.
For example, that’s what simple legislation could do. For example, lets say I buy an cellphone/computer, then buy an app/program for that device, and the device has the required specifications to run the software. The company that sold me that software should be obligated by law to give me a version of the software that runs in my machine forever. This is not a lot to ask for, this is literally how software worked before the internet.
But now, behind the cover of security and convenience, this is all out of the window. Each new windows/macos/ios/android/adobe/fucking anything update asks for more and more hardware and little to no meaningful new functionality. So we need to keep upgrading and upgrading, and spending and spending.
But this is not a given, we can do better with very little sacrifices.
When I was last looking for a fully remote job, a lot of companies gave you a “technology allowance” every few years where they give you money to buy a computer/laptop. You could buy whatever you wanted but you had that fixed allowance. The computer belonged to you and you connected to their virtual desktops for work.
Honestly, I see more companies going in this direction. My work laptop has an i7 and 16GB of RAM. All I do is use Chrome.
It’d be nice to have that - yeah. My company issued me a laptop that only had 16gb of RAM to try and build Android projects.
Idk if you know Gradle builds but a multi module project regularly consumes 20+GB of ram during a build. Despite the cost difference being paid for in productivity gains within a month it took 6 months and a lot of fighting to get a 32gb laptop.
My builds immediately went from 8-15 minutes down to 1-4.
I always felt that this is where cloud computing should be. If you’re not building all the time, then 32GB is overkill.
I know most editing and rendering of TV shows happen on someone’s computer and not in the cloud but wouldn’t it be more efficient to push the work to the cloud where you can create instances with a ton of RAM?
I have to believe this is a thing. If it isn’t, someone should take my idea and then give me a slice.
It’s how big orgs like Google do it, sure. Working there I had 192gb of ram on my cloudtop.
That’s not exactly reducing the total spend on dev ram though - quite the opposite. It’s getting more ram than you can fit in a device available to the devs.
But you can’t have it both ways: you can’t bitch and moan about “always on internet connections” and simultaneously push for an always on internet connected IDE to do your builds.
I want to be able to work offline whenever I need to. That’s not possible if my resource starved terminal requires an Internet connection to run.
Ram is dirt cheap and only getting cheaper.
“Use cloud if available”?
Alternatively they could just use Windows VDI and give you a card + card reader that allows Remote Desktop Connection to avoid this hardware cost, like what my company is doing. Sigh
If the job is fully remote, then the workers could be living on the other side of the country. Using remote desktop with 100ms of latency is not fun.
It’s a lot cheaper to have double the ram
yeah a lot cheaper to force someone else to buy double the RAM. No thanks.
Companies don’t pay for your 2x RAM and it doesn’t slow down their user acquisition so they don’t care.
But how would you implement that new Microsoft Screenshot surveillance bullshit feature? Just imagine what a giant waste of resources that is. You have something on your screen which is information and mostly likely already in a good form to process like text. But it makes a screenshot every few seconds and uses some “AI” to make the already existing information searchable again from a fucking screenshot??? Maybe I missed something but that is how I understood the feature.
If it was for surveillance, do you really think they’d tell you about it?
