Fun fact: Torx screwdrivers are compatible with Torx Plus screws, but Trox Plus screwdrivers are only compatible with Torx screws that are one size larger
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Useful tip: with security torx screws, with the little nub in the centre, if you get a small flathead screwdriver to jam in there and wiggle a bit, that centre bit will snap off without much difficulty.
You should be able to use a regular Torx screwdriver bit after that.This is really gonna come in handy during some of my heists
Their only “heists” when you get caught, until then they’re “shenanigans” 😁
It’s easier to just pick up security bits at any hardware store…
Yeah, just exclusively buy security bits and stop worrying about it.
Torx are superior to all other types. I’ve been a carpenter for roughly three decades, and have suffered through all manner of fastening methods that have come and gone. None of them can hold a candle to Torx. I’ve never seen another type that can resist stripping out so well and for so long.
Torx should be the default over Phillips for sure. Phillips is fine for shit like access panels or screw terminals. Slotted is useless for anything but the adjustment on pots and thermostats. Robertson is just a proto-torx. Everything else either exists to make someone money or is a bolt
What about hexes?
Robertson is superior to all.
Fellow contractor here. Torx or go home. Drywall screws are the only exception I’m willing to make.
Where do you buy torx wood screws or torx metal screws?
I’ve never seen any.
IIRC Spax and GRK make torx multi-purpose fasteners that you can use for wood and metal
Most screws sold around here have a torx head
And a set of Allen keys usually saves a trip to the hardware store if you’re missing the right size Torx bit.
Hexes save trip to store when you need torx? How?
Because a hex key can fit (albeit imperfectly) into a Torx opening and loosen or tighten the fastener as needed.
It’s more likely to slip or strip, but it’s better than nothing.
The opposite is also true.
Torx can’t hold shit. They’re single use screws.
How do you feel about square drive? I’m no carpenter, just someone that’s done enough work around the house, but I’ve found that Torx are the best option but square is a close second (but I don’t think I’ve used them in any especially high torque situations, and they may fall short there).
Square drive (or Robertson) I consider a close second. They do tend to strip out faster, especially in “softer” fasteners like stainless steel.
So square is a close second in terms of quality, while being vastly simpler and cheaper to manufacture. Seems to me like i’d prefer square.
Also i’d be terrified of getting dirt in a torx screw, good luck cleaning it to make it usable again. Though i haven’t actually had this problem personally so it’s just a hunch
You clearly have no idea how fasteners are manufactured… and you worry needlessly about hypotheticals.
Torx, hex, and square/Robertson all require broaching, generally with a rotary broach. The manufacturing process is basically identical, though the manufacturing of the machine tools varies slightly.
I have torx all over my mountain bike that gets caked in dirt, a little bit of water and a pick gets them usable in seconds. I could argue that hex is superior to square but they’re both worse than torx so who really cares.
Square and Robertson are different. No taper in square
Robertson drive tho
Least favorite for sure.
Vastly Superior to Philips, which is vastly superior to blade/slotted for anything resembling a power tool.
robertsons are tapered, so unless you get a proper positive lock, or they have dirt in them or something, they’re more liable to stripping out. But other than that, they’re great.
Not a single person sharing the xkcd comic about standards? Well I’m not doing it.
my brother in christ have you seen phillips head and posi drive?
Life sucks. You can’t win.
Working on an 86 RV and hating posi drive. I swear they were designed to strip.
Also no mention of Spider drive that everyone insists is a torx
probably because nobody buys anything other than torx, considering it’s a brand name, it’s not like they’re going to just do the funny and mislabel a screw. Phillips heads are so common it’s a lot easier to mistake them.
Though if you’re in the field and you run across one i could see it being annoying.
Or Phillips and JIS?
JIS isn’t real
Why is tamper-resistant torx plus the only one that’s 5-pronged?
To make it even less likely that someone will be able to get it unscrewed without having the right set.
They’re not perfect, obviously, but they do harden a target more than regular Torx.
I use tamper resistant screws to keep an AirTag on my eBike to discourage its removal. Obviously a determined thief could remove it, but lots of stolen bikes get abandoned anyway. My hope is that if it gets stolen it gets abandoned and I can find it then.
Okay, then a slightly different question: why aren’t tamper-resistant torx (non-plus) 5-prong?
Apple?
because the goal of tamper resistance is to make it harder to unscrew without apple’s approval
Why is screw DLC legal? Why are people ok with companies preventing people from working in their own devices?
You can turn a tamper proof screw into a regular screw by using a flat head as a lever and breaking off the center post. Harder to do the bigger the screw is.
Who said we are? It’s up to Congress to regulate things like that and they don’t know shit about fuck. Unless someone “lobbies” them to do it of course.
Tamper proof is to prevent random idiots from messing with your stuff.
Random idiots that don’t know hardware stores exist
Every lock can be broken. My step grandfather would use tamper proof screws to board up his lake house for winter. Otherwise you risk some drunk ice fishing fuck breaking into your house.
If someone really wanted to get in, it doesn’t really matter what fasteners you use, they would just cut the wood. It just prevents common vandals that happen to have a screwdriver, not determined criminals.
Once they’re determined to fuck with your stuff, they’re no longer random. It’s just to delay the occasional dingleberry with a multi tool until they get distracted and forget.
“Huh, doesnt fit. Oh well, guess I’ll carve some folk art into the shitter door.”
Then you can just spackle over the swastikas, but you don’t usually have to reassemble the privacy panels.
Tamper resistant torx is still a weird niche. Tamper resistant slotted for bathroom stalls makes sense because a person with a coin could disassemble a whole row of stalls without any effort, but if you’re carrying around a torx bit, you might as well be carrying around a security bit.
For some reason, Ford decided to use Security Torx to hold together their hybrid battery packs. Couldn’t tell you why that was better then regular Torx.
For some reason, Ford decided to use Security Torx to hold together their hybrid battery packs. Couldn’t tell you why that was better then regular Torx.
I’d guess that was some sort of safety standard designed to protect vehicle owners from themselves.
As Torx gets more and more common, it’s presence is less and less likely to be a serious hurdle, so the security screws are a simple way for them to sort of say to the owner “don’t mess with the stuff below this”. If they want to, they still can, but it’s a specific effort at that point…so Ford can say they’ve implemented a safety measure. Might even be some sort of government standard too, where using a less common fastener style brings them into compliance without needing some sort of even less accessible design, like a sealed off system.
Ah, torx plus, used on Chevy bellhousings. Real easy to strip with a regular torx driver.
The EU should fine companies for introducing new standards that break old standards. Or any shit standards like Toslink: https://lemmy.world/comment/10671314 . Standardization organizations shouldn’t be sleeping through all this shit.
I don’t use screw drivers enough to know what these are for. But from a programmer’s standpoint, punishing people to deviate away from standard may cause more harm than good, no?
Suppose it’s easier/cheaper/more effective to deviate a bit from standard, why should I be punished to do things a bit differently?
Think about all the micro USB, lightning cables, USB cables etc. In programming it’s different, but for this stuff it’s a waste of money and actual resources.
One issue is that it can be leveraged to maintain a monopoly. Microsoft famously made a bunch of small modifications to the HTML standard, so that web sites that wanted to work with MS Internet Explorer had to write custom versions to be compatible. But because so many people just used IE because it was bundled with Windows, those “extensions” started to become their own standard, so that then other browsers had to adopt MS’s idiosyncrasies in order to be compatible with the sites, which in turn harmed standardization itself. They even had a term for this technique: “Embrace, Extend, Extinguish.” It nearly worked for them until Google pushed them out with Chrome. Microsoft tried to do the same thing again with Java until the government got involved.
It’s complicated, certainly, but there are legitimate cases where “just a little tweak” can be quite a big problem for a standard.
Thanks for the explanation.
I never realised how stupid it is that toslink can only plug in 1 way
Reject threaded fasteners, return to nail and rivet.
I hate torx and my superduke is covered in those fucking things
I repair a lot of tech and I have never seen torx other than the standard, and security version. And security torx drivers are compatible with regular torx
There’s other types on cars
Security torx is actually very weak. If you don’t have the security bit, you can break it with a flat head and turn it into a normal torx.
I assume all those are proprietary temper resistant, tool for it will be expensive so not many tool shop gonna have it.
Not really. A solid set for security Torx is available for like $20 from reputable brands. Naturally, you can get higher quality sets and sets that add other security bits, but you still won’t land in an unacceptable price range even for private use, let alone a pro shop.
Use torx all the time on not only building sites, but in machinery repair too.
There’s only one type of torx and I think OP is winding us up :)
Edit - ha ha oh my fucking god. So it turns out the patent for torx expired in 1990. No change for us in Europe, we’re still mostly using the original design.
Not so much for the yanks. Textron, the original patent holder, realised it’d be faaaar more profitable to “licence” slightly improved designs and try to phase out the original
Enjoy your torx my euro friends, and have a giggle at the seppos paying for a fucking screw head lol
Greed to the point of mental illness 😂
There’s only one type of torx
There isn’t. There’s Torx, Torx Plus, and Torx Paralobe. See here for more details: https://www.semblex.com/en/pdf-files/technology-files/torx-paralobe-pdf/ . Plus there’s also the ttap and tamper-resistant variants shown in the meme.
As other people have mentioned, Torx screwdrivers are forwards compatible with Torx Plus and Torx Paralobe. But the screwdrivers for the newer standards are not backwards compatible with older screws.
Similarly, Tamper-Resistant Torx screwdrivers can be used on regular Torx screws. But Tamper-Resistant Torx Plus screwdrivers cannot be used on regular Torx Plus screws – it’s a completely different shape!
If you’re in a professional setting where you order high-quality screws and drivers in bulk directly from a manufacturer, I’d imagine that this isn’t much of an issue. But if you’re a hobbyist or just need to repair something in a domestic setting, the three different torx variants plus the other non-torx hexalobular screws (WA drive, Polydrive, T-Star Plus) can cause quite a bit of confusion. Anecdotally, I have a set of what I thought were really low-quality Torx bits. Turns out, they’re actually good-quality Torx Plus bits that by design don’t fit my Torx screws.
Yeah that’s just what Big Torx wants us to think man
Put timing chains on a Ford v6 without a torx plus 55 and let us know how that went.
Torx plus is getting more common and you can use a torx bit on them still, and superior to torx IMO. I bet you’ve seen since but didn’t notice the difference. As a machine designer it’s my preference but I don’t often for cost
Torx plus ultra premium pro
Robinson aka the square head is by far the superior choice.
LOL sure, good one… Only time that square abomination is the answer is if the question is “what do you get if you put a toddler in charge of designing a poor knockoff unbrako head?”
TEAM TORX REPRESENT!
Things are getting heated in the screw fandom
I’m not canadian, so I don’t have a lot of experience with robertson. But from the limited experience that I do have, I would rate it 10/10.
What would you recommend for smaller screws (e.g. for electronics)? As far as I know, there aren’t smaller sizes of robertson like there are with torx?
Pozidrive has real nice engagement and doesn’t cam out like Phillips does. And JIS drivers do a better job in Phillips than Phillips ones do.
After wrecking some JIS screws on a vintage reciever, I bought a nice Vessel-brand JIS driver set, and use it for all my crosshead needs.
Pozidriv reliably makes me projectile vomit ☹️
I’ve driven tens of thousands of pozidrive 2/3 screws into timber with an impact driver. For whatever reason my experience is the diametric opposite of yours. Big up the Pozidrive massive.
It’s probably because of the impact driver. The bit seats back into the bottom of the slot between every impact. This doesn’t happen with normal drivers.
People (try to) use a drill driver as opposed to an impact driver? Wow. I now understand why they could have a grim experience… thanks.
I absolutely love the amount of strong opinions on screw heads 🙏
Me too. Nice to see the passion of the construction industry ( and the weekend warriors too)
Philips doesn’t cam out that easily either. Most people just don’t realize there’s three common sizes.
Philips doesn’t cam out that easily either.
I mean…that’s an inherently subjective statement.
But more objectively, regardless of how easily, it’s still the worst of the available options.
Yeah but JIS for screws/bolts has been abandoned by the Japanese govt as of… 2005?My JIS screwdrivers are fantastic, not easy to torque out on a regular Phillips screw. Stick with the “vessel” brand.
E: I can’t find anything more than discussion about it, nothing official. Sorry for the wrong info, looks like JIS screws are still alive.
I did not know that, but yes to Vessel!
I think I was wrong, see edit. Carry on!
Found the Canadian.
Its flaw is that you can only get to it in 90deg increments. When the screw is in a hard to reach place that will drive you crazy
*Robertson
As a person that changes out a lot of electrical outlets and switches I have to agree.
I have to admit that each time I saw a torx security screw on a case I had to open (looking at you, Compaq) this made me so angry that I used to punch the middle pin away with a flathead screwdriver, and replace the screw with a regular one later. This was in those past times I did not have a fuckton of assorted torx bits in a gigantic case…
Didn’t Compaq use to have those torx with a slit in them where you could put a flathead screwdriver in the slit part?
I know HP uses those on some computers. Pretty neat design, if you ask me!
Yes I’ve always referred to them as Compaq screws but mainly because I personally saw them on Compaq first. I think HP bought Compaq at some point and that might explain why they are used on both brands. Don’t know which brand started using them first.
I would have rather had they just used Phillips screws but as far as weird screwheads go these aren’t too bad.
At least the good thing about them is the threads are standard and they can be replaced with a Phillipshead case screw just as well.
I’m with you. I’ve replaced all the torx screws on my Dell with Philips head screws because fuck you Dell. (all the screws inside were already Philips)
Why does Torx Plus have six teeth but tamper-resistant Torx Plus has five? Whereas ‘what the fuck is this’ basically looks like it should be tamper-resistant Torx Plus?
I guess they wanted to make the screws even more tamper-resistant? With the standard Torx Tamper-Resistant screws, they could often be bypassed by chiseling the pin away with a flathead and a hammer, and then using a standard Torx driver. Can’t do that with the pentalobular design!
