Legislation that Gov. JB Pritzker signed into law this month bans physical punishment in private schools while reiterating a prohibition on the practice in public schools implemented 30 years ago.
But but but . . . hitting solves problems!
Just ask the guy who invented it . . . Hitler.
(I’ll show myself out)
Earlier that day, the child allegedly spit at a teacher. Now, he was in handcuffs and a police officer was saying he could end up in jail.
Well…that’s assault…what would you like the teacher to do in that situation?
Once upon a time, back in the dark ages when I was in school, kids like that were sent to the principal’s office, at which point they might be given detention, suspension, or even expulsion.
Hell when I was a kid having meltdowns it usually took me chucking a chair for the police to be called. Me spitting while only partially melting down was usually seen as a throw him at the principal problem.
We can’t expel children any more. And I’m betting this was the last straw after several detentions.
What would you like the teacher to do then?
Why can’t “we” expel children anymore? You can here in Indiana.
I guess you can expell children in my state, but the paperwork and procedure makes it almost impossible. The teacher would have to go through the equivalent of a small trial…and that’s only if it’s a normal kid. If a parent says ADHD the kid can’t be expelled.
It’s fucking weird to arrest kids, I get that. But as someone with a kid in school, I’ve seen how batshit crazy school has gotten.
If I had spit on a teacher growing up, I’d immediately have been expelled and thrown in juvie. Welcome to alternative education.
I believe the teachers. They’re under paid and dealing with the craziest fucked up post COVID generation in history.
If I had spit on a teacher growing up, I’d immediately have been expelled and thrown in juvie.
Where on Earth did you grow up that spitting on a teacher would have ended with you being thrown in juvenile detention? Can you provide any evidence of this?
Rural America.
Not to arrest children.
Wipe it off, tell the child in no uncertain terms that this is never acceptable, and if it continues being confrontational to that degree, send it to the principal’s office to get detention.
And after that doesn’t work several times?
You’re talking as if there weren’t pedagogic professionals who have solved this problem. If a child is that unwilling to conform even slightly, the child either has special needs and doesn’t belong there, or, more likely, there’s shit going down at the child’s home and CPS need to get involved.
I’m thoroughly baffled that you think there’s any kind of argument to be made for corporeal punishment. The scientific world has solved and moved on a century ago. The backwater sticklers who still don’t get it are harmful Luddites, not people with opinions to take seriously.
I’m absolutely not for corporeal punishment. I am ok with a kid being arrested.for assault.
Take it or leave it, but there are some children that just shouldn’t be in the public school system for whatever reason.
I absolutely am for better mental health resources and special needs programs. Being tolerant of neurodivergent children is great, I’m all for it, until they are violent or make teaching the other kids impossible.
Then…I don’t know…arresting the kid seems reasonable if they been repeatedly violent and disruptive.
Teachers have their hands tied when dealing with violent children. I don’t know what the answer is.
The thumbnail made me think this was about hitting children with busses, glad to see that’s already illegal
hitting children with busses, glad to see that’s already illegal
…for now.
I thought it was going to be a [email protected] post, until I reached the corporeal punishment part.
Here’s a crazy idea. Every time you wanna spank a kid, don’t. Spank that kid’s parents instead.
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This is overreacting. I was beat as a child and I only need minimal therapy now.
The data available shows hitting kids does absolutely nothing to increase desired behaviors and in many cases is linked to increase in unwanted behaviors.
What do you mean hitting children teaches them that hitting is acceptable?
Next they will tell us that beating our wives for dinner being late is unacceptable!
Yeah I can 100% confirm this. My parents beat me when I was a kid.
I’ve learned to lie better. It’s not something I’m proud of.
Also explains a lot about American culture being what it is.
We all learned to convincingly lie our way out of “the wooden spoon”
My mom wasn’t strong enough to beat me and I quickly got bigger than my step-dad, but the psychological and mental abuse was there. And now she questions why it don’t let her hang out with my son alone and will abruptly leave with him when I get even a whiff of it.
Edit: forgot my point, but yes, I too became a master liar.
To be fair, your case applies to any sort of punishment.
- I’m punished if I do something wrong.
- If they don’t find out, I don’t get punished.
Conclusion: need to hide doing something wrong better.
Doing it out of fear makes it a survival response. Unlike getting grounded and talking about what was wrong.
What kind of beating are you supposed to give children for them to actually fear for their lives? I understand that there are sickos like that, but it’s not that common. I’ve been belted my whole childhood, but I never had any survival response, cause I knew that my parents love me. During the whole thing I was much more worried about getting my PS2 taken away.
Parents that beat their kids don’t really love them. They are releasing their anger on their kids. My mom left bruises and welts from the belt until I pushed her into a wall. I have also never hit my kid now that I have one. Because I take the time to chill myself before punishment.
Not all corporal punishment by parents is “beating”. I was belted, but it wasn’t done out of anger (maybe only sometimes). It was just a misguided method of disciplining, done “for my benefit”.
I have never seen, heard, or talked to anyone that spanked their kid after waiting for 20min. It’s always been in the heat of the moment. It’s a power exchange. An outdated punishment just like making kids eat castor oil, being denied food, or poisoning their kids by making them put soap in their mouth.
A child depends on their parent for every aspect of their survival. To have a parent turn on them in any respect is potentially a life-altering experience, and not in the way the parent intends. We have mountains and mountains of research that you can easily take advantage of. Two people can have the same experience; one receives permanent trauma, and the other just has a bad day. You were fortunate, but it is quite likely you are suffering affects (eg in relationships, self image, spiritual disposition) you are not presently able to acknowledge.
Lemmy back to making assumptions about comments. Not in the least indicated by the amount of downvotes to my original comment. Also Lemming really don’t like hearing truths that don’t vibe with them.
But to address your comment, I suppose you didn’t say anything wrong, but it assumes that I don’t know about adverse effects of corporal punishment and somehow approve of it.
I come from culture where corporal punishment is the default. 90-95% of boys (not so sure about girls, should be much less) experienced it, at least in the years of my childhood (it luckily seems to be going down, from my personal experience). But this doesn’t mean that 95% of boys get beaten to pulp with a bludgeon. Most of the punishment is a slap on the back of the neck or something equivalent. Do I approve of it? No. But unlike some, I’m also willing to acknowledge that it’s by far not the worst thing a parent can do, and the amount of potential trauma is likely negligible. And most children don’t see these as “parents turning on them” or “life threatening experience”. (Source: was a child who went to many different schools with children of various socioeconomic status)
I wasn’t saying I was fortunate, I’m pretty sure I have enough traumatic experiences, including some instances that I remember to this day. And just because all of what I said above is true, you don’t have to assume that my comments are an emphatic endorsement for child-beating, or beating any living creature, for that matter.
Parents who dont respect the bodily integrity of their children are already on the path to more serious corporeal punishment, and that is something that does happen, even if you didn’t see it. Furthermore, it perpetuates the issue, since the children (like you!) learnt that it is a valid parenting tool, and among those there are again future parents who take it further than a small slap, and so on and so on… simply say no to corporeal punishment.
and by the way, it does not take grievous bodily harm to traumatize children. verbal abuse takes it’s toll too, creating deep-seated psychological issues in many children.
The problem is that during childhood, the parents are literally the only lifeline for a child. Every experience that betrays the trust that children HAVE to have towards their parents has potential for trauma. A few isolated incidences might not do damage, but it’s like playing roulette: the more often you play, the higher the chance your number comes up, creating lifelong consequences like anxiety/fear/depression (or when happening in the first few years of your life, personality disorders like my AVPD), inability to have a stable relationship, or bonding issues with your future children.
Don’t hit your children. Don’t yell at your children either. Do not make excuses for people who do this.
Hitting your kids just teaches them to self harm before problem solving
Showing a picture of buses made me think they meant hitting them with vehicles lmao
Otto is way too stoned to get road rage
same lol
It’s CHILD ABUSE!
To not allow TEACHERS to SPANK KIDS! I’m a Republican trying to Protect The Children!
In school and 99% of scenarios, physicality doesn’t do any good. But if you have a really young child, like 3-5, and they hurt another child or an animal and show no remorse, I think spanking is acceptable as a punishment immediately after the incident. They might have trouble with developing empathy and need to understand they hurt another being.
How does their adult role model hitting them not just teach them that hitting is socially acceptable?
Teaching this to a kid without empathy seems like the worst imaginable circumstance lol.
And I sure as hell don’t want someone other than the parents ever making that decision.
This is the same logic given for school aged children to not fight back against bullies for decades, and bullying is now a huge problem.
I’m talking about a situation where your own child is exhibiting bullying characteristics at a very young age. You can’t sit them down and explain why pulling their sibling’s hair shouldn’t give them gratification…they still want to do it. Just when you’re not around. The consequences have to be emotionally driven, and something they can understand and feel even when an adult is not present. What’s your alternative? Timeout? Take a toy away?
I had a brother who tormented me for many years. My parents tried various things, and nothing worked. The thing that did work was me hitting him in the face with a metal belt when I was like ten when he physically attacked me for the millionth time. He just name-called after that, never touched me.
Obviously an adult is not going to do something like that. But how do you correct a very young child who is exhibiting signs that they are growing into a bully?
No it’s not the same logic. Someone in power hitting someone teaches kids that it is acceptable to use physical violence to get your way, this encourages the child to do even more violence. A victim fighting back against their bully is self defence, it is a different situation completely. I support training victimized kids to fight and stand up for themselves, I don’t support allowing adults to hit kids as punitive measures.
There’s no easy answer to the situation you describe, but the evidence overwhelmingly demonstrates that corporal punishment makes things worse, not better. Self defence against a bully is a completely different situation.
This is the same logic given for school aged children to not fight back against bullies for decades, and bullying is now a huge problem.
So you literally want to teach your kid to be violent? You’re staying very far from “teaching empathy” with this one…
I’m talking about a situation where your own child is exhibiting bullying characteristics at a very young age.
Yeah, those kids usually have violent parents. Of course you think this is a problem to be solved with violence. Too bad you haven’t figured out yet that you’re the reason your kid is violent.
You can’t sit them down and explain why pulling their sibling’s hair shouldn’t give them gratification…
You literally can. You just have no patience to talk to your kids, and use violence instead.
But how do you correct a very young child who is exhibiting signs that they are growing into a bully?
By not being the parent that normalizes violence as a solution to problems.
In school and 99% of scenarios, physicality doesn’t do any good. But if you have a really young child, like 3-5…
You think violence against children is only acceptable if you’re beating a toddler? That’s a really weird conclusion to reach…
I think spanking is acceptable as a punishment immediately after the incident.
Because you’re a shit parent who doesn’t know how to raise a child without resorting to violence. The evidence overwhelmingly shows that negative reinforcement is the worst way to discipline a child. If you think it works, you’re wrong.
They might have trouble with developing empathy and need to understand they hurt another being.
You’re teaching them, by example, to use violence. You’re the parent. Be a role model. How can you possibly think you can use violence to teach that violence is wrong?
The answer to a child showing such violent tendencies is therapy, not causing them pain.
Why is the fleet assembled then? Looks like they’re going on a schoolbus spree
When is someone going to spank me for once?
Bonk!
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I’m of the position that violence (broadly speaking, including the smallest offences) is never the best answer to a misbehaving child (or adult for that matter), but there are times when it’s not the worst answer either. When parents don’t have the skills to raise children with other methods, the net result just becomes that the children aren’t raised at all.
Studies have shown that even small acts of violence have detrimental effect on the brain so no, it’s never not the worst, it is always bad.
Can you cite such studies, please?
Thank you for asking. Here is a more recent one. https://www.gse.harvard.edu/ideas/usable-knowledge/21/04/effect-spanking-brain
Great source, thank you!
This will sound like I’m shifting the goalposts (and perhaps it is), but I was at least on some abstract level thinking of something more benign than spanking.
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Somehow I seem to have gotten through 14 years of parenting a good kid without once hitting her for any reason.
The most violent thing I’ve ever done is grab her wrist and pull her quickly when she was a toddler and on the sidewalk and suddenly decided to try to run off the curb and into traffic. And that wasn’t punishment, that was a last resort to stop her from accidentally killing herself.
This is commendable of course. Do you think it’s because you’re just a better person, or because the child was a better person? Where would you put yourself in the nature vs nurture dimension?
I think it’s because there’s never a reason to hit a child. It has no idea with being a “better person,” whatever that means.
I agree that there’s never a good reason to hit a child. I mean unless you’re training martial arts with them or something, but that’s obviously not what this is about.
Surely a person with better self-control (like yourself, apparently) is a better person? Or a person who doesn’t turn to violence when they get too angry to control themselves. Especially as a parent, who is constantly pushed towards angry, at least at some points of parenthood. That’s what I was wondering about: were you a parent with superior self-control or were you a parent with the sort of a child that you didn’t really need superior self-control?
I had my first child decades ago, and until then I had the self-image of being a calm person with a pretty high level of self-control. That image sure vanished quickly, and I was poorly prepared for the dissonance.
You’re the one making this better and worse judgment, not me. All I am saying is that there is no good reason to hit a child.
Do you feel awkward being called a better person? I’m not doing it sarcastically or as a trap.
No, I just don’t think you are really in the position to judge it, only knowing a tiny bit about me. I could be horrific in other ways. But I appreciate it.
I like how america is slowly making it into the XIX c. Well done america!
I’m sure whatever country you’re from has fully rejected out-of-date ideas.
So we’re getting a throwback to 1973 news articles… Wait there were still places outside of backwards ass Pender County, NC that did this shit?
The nuns. That’s what the article is saying.
Wow, I thought that was just a thing in cartoons. Huh, weird.
In schools? How is this even still an open question? I thought the debate had at least moved on to whether parents should be allowed to hurt their children, even in the US.
It was banned in public schools 30 years ago, this extends the ban to private schools
Not in every state.
