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There was a post about making cats vegan. The mod then decided that people posting information on why that is a bad idea were antivegan or something. The mod started then removing any information that pointed to cats not being able to be health while on a vegan diet. The Lemmy.world admins them stepped in stating that improperly feeding your cat constitutes animal abuse and is unethical. This made many die hard vegans very mad.
For the record, cats can not be vegan. They can survive on it but they will have shorter more painful lives and they will go blind. There bodies start breaking down without the proteins and amino acids found in meat. I understand why vegans would be unhappy with that answer but it is the way it is.
Interesting enough, that’s not the case for dog. You can put a dog on a vegan diet as long as you are very careful and are constantly monitoring. It isn’t for the faint of heart and can have very sad outcomes. It isn’t something you can arbitrarily do.
Was this the article that started it? Do you have the thread or would an archived link be required to see it?
Vegan versus meat-based cat food: Guardian-reported health outcomes in 1,369 cats, after controlling for feline demographic factors [Andrew Knight, Alexander Bauer, Hazel Brown | Published: September 13, 2023][1]
Abstract
Increasing concerns about environmental sustainability, farmed animal welfare and competition for traditional protein sources, are driving considerable development of alternative pet foods. These include raw meat diets, in vitro meat products, and diets based on novel protein sources including terrestrial plants, insects, yeast, fungi and potentially seaweed. To study health outcomes in cats fed vegan diets compared to those fed meat, we surveyed 1,418 cat guardians, asking about one cat living with them, for at least one year. Among 1,380 respondents involved in cat diet decision-making, health and nutrition was the factor considered most important. 1,369 respondents provided information relating to a single cat fed a meat-based (1,242–91%) or vegan (127–9%) diet for at least a year. We examined seven general indicators of illness. After controlling for age, sex, neutering status and primary location via regression models, the following risk reductions were associated with a vegan diet for average cats: increased veterinary visits– 7.3% reduction, medication use– 14.9% reduction, progression onto therapeutic diet– 54.7% reduction, reported veterinary assessment of being unwell– 3.6% reduction, reported veterinary assessment of more severe illness– 7.6% reduction, guardian opinion of more severe illness– 22.8% reduction. Additionally, the number of health disorders per unwell cat decreased by 15.5%. No reductions were statistically significant. We also examined the prevalence of 22 specific health disorders, using reported veterinary assessments. Forty two percent of cats fed meat, and 37% of those fed vegan diets suffered from at least one disorder. Of these 22 disorders, 15 were most common in cats fed meat, and seven in cats fed vegan diets. Only one difference was statistically significant. Considering these results overall, cats fed vegan diets tended to be healthier than cats fed meat-based diets. This trend was clear and consistent. These results largely concur with previous, similar studies.
Abstract states vegan cats are healthier, but fig. 4 would suggest that they live shorter (or are at least younger)
Also, 33% of vegan cats had access to the outdoors, which means they likely caught and ate something occasionally.
Why do people even try to keep cats on vegan diet? It was your fucking choice, not the cats.
Im vegetarian, my cat eats meat. Im not gonna force anything on him unless he comes to me and tells me he wants to try it.
if the cat enjoys the vegan food and it is nutritious then there is really not an issue.
obviously you can’t stop a cat killing things.
This guy has done studies into the very thing:
Often people watch something like Dominion, get shocked, and decide to go vegan. It’s a purely emotional decision. Don’t expect any rational choices here.
What would be the rational choice after watching it?
Ummm. It’s pretty rational to go vegan/vegetarian. Humans can be healthy and we are capable to decide for ourselves. Cats on the other hand…
I think it’s great that you don’t eat meat, that’s a step many people refuse to take. If you have recognized the horror of the animal industry, then try to avoid udder milk as well. The dairy industry is the meat industry, they go hand in hand. Dairy cows are sold as food for humans and animals after they are no longer profitable, after just a few years. Don’t force a life of misery on dairy cows.
Don’t downvote this guy, he is right.
One meow for meat, two for vegan
can you tell.me if you know more than this guy, and where he is wrong:
You left your SI in the link
It’s bizarre to me that harcore vegans want to own a pet to begin with. Keeping bees for honey is bad, but separating a kitten from its mother at an early age and castrating it for your convenience and deciding how they live (restricted to an apartment or not) is totally fine?
I understand that most pets live a good life, but man, I can’t bring myself to make choices like these. I mean there are ways to circumvent it (get an older cat from an asylum for example) but it doesn’t really remove the “pet dilemma” to me.
My understanding was always that seeking out new pets was bad, but it was also bad to get rid of one if you already had it. I’m not a vegan, though I did date a couple many years ago and am basing this on what I remember from conversations.
Most people I know adopt from rescue shelters and all the vegans I know do that, often even focusing on pets that are somewhat “disadvantaged” regarding getting adopted, i.e. disabled or chronically ill animals. They go to an animal shelter not primarily with the wish of having a pet but providing a better life for an animal (because let’s face it, even the best-intentioned shelters are understaffed and underfunded).
To be honest, I’ve never seen anyone take a dog from a shelter. With cats - yes, and I only know a handful of people who own a specific type of cat. But everyone I know and all people I meet have specific dog breeds or known mixes that were planned - both in the making and adoption.
Yeah, adopt don’t shop. But I’ve met many vegans who don’t want pets at all. Including myself, I find the concept of owning a pet a little strange. But that’s something everyone should decide for themself.
But that’s something everyone should decide for themself.
Honestly I’m not so sure about that. I’m actually annoyed by the lack of regulation. Why is pet breeding still a thing? Owning a pet seems like something that should be phased out (while working on getting the numbers of new born pets down).
Don’t get me wrong, I like animals, I’ve grown up with a cat who lived to 21 years and I consider him more of a brother than a pet, and I love cats, but I wouldn’t want to repeat this again. With cats you are damned if you let them outside and damned if you don’t. Dogs should just not exist in public spaces. A lot of people are afraid of dogs and every dog “doesn’t bite” before he bites one for the first time. I also don’t care if they bite or not, I don’t want an animal touching me or my stuff, period. The trees suffer, the playgrounds are surrounded by shit, and people tense up in a subway or restaurant when there’s a dog. Unless you are a farmer with a huge piece of land you just should not have a dog. (Or need an animal for disability reasons of course.)
am not vegan but I’ll point out:
giving a cat a home, and fixing it so it won’t breed further rescue cats, is not a dilemma to me.
I am a vegan. While my dogs were alive they ate meat as well as veggies. It seems to me that a lot of vegans don’t realise that it’s a scale and not binary. The whole philosophy of veganism is “as much as you are able” so I guess there is extremism everywhere.
Making dogs vegan still doesn’t sound like a good idea to me tho
Yeah, it’s ridiculous to feed a dog vegetables. My dog gets a diet of pure meat. I drive around my city with a net gun and capture outdoor cats, and then butcher them for Fido. It’s a win-win-win. Win: Fido gets meat. Win: I don’t contribute to factory farming cruelty. Win: the native birds aren’t driven extinct by predation. This is the only ethical way to feed a dog, since this way every living creature that ends up in Fido’s hungry jaws lived a rich and fulfilling life.
Disclaimer that I’m not even a vegan but you’re spreading disinfo here to make vegans seem completely unreasonable. I suggest anyone check out the actual discussions instead of trusting this summary.
Cats are obligate carnivores, sparky. That means they can’t be vegan.
Cats are obligate carnivores in the wild. This just means they have dietary needs that would normally require meat. But we can make vegan, synthetic food that meets these needs. In fact, studies have shown that cats on vegan diets tend to be healthier if anything.
they can’t be vegan as that is an ethical choice. they can be plant based and live a perfectly normal life.
tell me where you disagree with this guy:
I don’t know enough about that topic to argue for or against which is not what I’m trying to argue
I suggest anyone check out the actual discussions.
I suggest not checking out some discussions in search for scientific data.
Yea better trust internet randos at face value. Don’t follow up on anything when you can just consume rage bait and hate vegans.
So it’s either “actual” discussions or this particular discussion, we have no other options, right? That’s, my friend, called false dichotomy.
This post is honestly an excuse for anti-vegan bashing. Even if some vegan mods have bad takes for cat nutrition it shouldn’t excuse the hate circle jerk on display here .
Remember to always be sceptical towards presentations that try to make you angry like this.
This post is honestly an excuse for anti-vegan bashing. Even if some vegan mods have bad takes for cat nutrition it shouldn’t excuse the hate circle jerk on display here .
As anyone reading the comment section would see, there’s far from a ‘hate circle jerk’ on display here.
Remember to always be sceptical towards presentations that try to make you angry like this.
And remember to always be skeptical towards presentations that insinuate that justified anger towards harmful conduct is an overreaction, and you really just need to chill and sit back and let it happen.
Perhaps one should also be skeptical towards presentations that attempt to dismiss criticism as ‘bashing’ and irrational regardless of the context or actual content of the criticisms.
By some freak statistical improbability, a significant portion of the Lemmy community revealed that they’re all qualified to debate the science of the nutritional needs of animals.
I wouldn’t go that far. I think it is more about people knowing just enough to be dangerous.
Until I joined Lemmy I had no idea how militant vegans could be. I sorta just assumed they were a different brand of vegetarian.
I’m not opposed to their ideaology in any way, but after reading the comments on a few posts that found their way into my feed… I had to block their communities. It didn’t seem likely that I’d be reading any productive discourse there.
I like how they expect everyone to share there ethical views. Fun fact: most people don’t.
If Lemmy had its version of r/atheist users, they’re either vegan, Linux obsessed, or politics obsessed.
Hey. Do you have time to talk about our lord and saviour, Linus Torvalds?
Savior? Do you mean Terry Davis, AKA King Terry the Terrible?
Oh yeah, I love Linus Tech Tips, it’s one of my favorite YouTubes.
It would have to be the Linux crowd, just by force of numbers.
the vast majority of vegans are not represented by a tiny segment that has found lemmy.
Exactly my experience. I often heard stories of vegans being like that, but I never ever saw it so I thought it was just made up to belittle vegans.
Then I joined lemmy and found out that I’m apparently in favour of massacres, slavery and rape because I consume meat/milk/eggs from time to time.
I imagine the vast majority of vegans just go about their lives and resprectfully discuss the ethics of animal consumption when the topic comes up, but these loud militant members really make vegans look bad and they sure as hell make it so that even less people consider going vegan
any movement will have more or less militant members. that’s life.
I was vegan for 8 years and during that time I didn’t talk to anyone about it other than to say, “I don’t eat that.”
I say that to say this - vegans are insufferable and a large reason why I quit the community and went back to omnivore. Even after 8 years, other vegans were still ‘more vegan’ and would nitpick the dumbest stuff.
“Bro, did you eat a date? That killed a bee or something. Not cool.”
Shut up with that. Let me eat my damn fruit.
I was healthier though. But, to be fair, I was younger.
As you might have experienced, it’s pretty hard to be vegan in a carnist world. People talk about animal abuse all the time, they confront you all the time, make fun of you. Most don’t want to talk about it, they want to shut you up. The hate and ignorance is strong and different people react diffrently to that situation. Some stay quiet, like yourself, some get vocal. Some debate, some get angry. Calling vegans insufferable is like calling gays insufferable, or feminists. Some might be. We have recognized a major injustice and we want to change it.
“Bro, did you eat a date? That killed a bee or something. Not cool.”
That’s rage bait and you made it up. Why would anyone say that?
he is confused with figs. which are pollinated by wasps. and some vegans choose to eat them and some don’t. it’s really not that controversial.
You know what, it’s so much easier to say you’re an omnivore and end up eating meat once a year than to say you are a vegan who makes an exception about once a year. The first label would earn you a “wait so you’re basically vegan?!” vs “you’re not vegan then and you’re a dirty cheater”.
exactly. you choose your labels to vest express your positions.
"Bro, did you eat a date? That killed a bee or something. Not cool.”
I’m a level 5 vegan. I won’t eat anything that casts a shadow.
Between them and Linux evangelicals, this place can be pretty annoying at times.
Linux evangelicals
We just want to save your code from eternal damnation
Spoken like a meat eating windows user
Do you think that’s an insult?
No. If he wanted to insult you, he’d call you a MacOS User /s
meat eating windows user (derogatory)
Oh you must also be a reddit uaer… Here you go: /s
Lol pretty sure /s has been around LONG before Reddit
I’d just like to interject for a moment. What you’re refering to as vegan, is in fact, GNU/vegan, or as I’ve recently taken to calling it, GNU plus vegan.
I’ve just discovered a new game: start posting how you love windows, meat and Elon, place bets who will attack you first
My money would be on Elon. Windows users and carnivores are quite common here, but hatred of The Musk is near universal.
It was honestly more fun to irk the “grammer” police on reddit using misspellings and improper vocabulary.
to irk the “grammer” police on reddit
Hmm…
*Squints*
You done messed up.
to irk the “grammer” police on Reddit
FTFY
I see, I still giggle when I do it, on Lemmy to!
I stick with Margaret Cho’s advice on vegans from her Assassin tour back in 2005:
And especially, especially, don’t fuck with vegans. Do not look vegans in the eye. If you get into an argument with a vegan, say “I’m wrong” and run away as fast as you can. Do not fuck with vegans because they will fuck you up…BECAUSE THEY’RE HUNGRY.
Quite a bit of their content is antagonizing and alienating. What a shame.
This topic touches a very soft spot in my heart as I’ve had to watch a cat die from being forced on a vegan diet. I’ve seen the results, and it is so very sad. Keep your goddamn morals out of other’s lives. Especially an animal that has no say in the matter. Fuck vegans.
Vegans could just get an animal that can be safely put on a vegan diet. They could walk into a vet or animal rescue and ask about vegan animal diets.
Worse case they could get a miniature pony.
Yeah I see no difference between militant pro-lifers and militant vegans. You don’t get a say in how I choose to interpret the information presented to me. But if you want to teach me things I didn’t know before or hadn’t considered I’m happy to listen. Just don’t tell me my choices are morally reprehensible when they’re my choices
It’s not just your choices alone, you’re ignoring something here: If the animal whose death you pay for every day could speak, it would object. If it could defend itself, it would fight against its death. It wants to go on living just like you. But you kill it anyway, against its will, because you can, because the animal is innocent and because you simply like it’s taste.
In addition to this violence, animal agriculture is also causing great damage to our planet, so your personal choice affects the lifes of other people, living and yet to be born as well. I can hardly think of any parallels to the pro-lifers.If the
animalfeotus whose death you pay for every day could speak, it would object. If it could defend itself, it would fight against its death. It wants to go on living just like you. But you kill it anyway, against its will, because you can, because theanimalfetus is innocentI can hardly think of any parallels to the pro-lifers.
10+ years vegan here. You should not feed plants to a carnivore. Maybe in the future, but not today. I attended a PETA workshop about a healthy plant-based diet a couple years ago and everybody agreed on that. I met a lot of different vegans and not once have I heard this opinion.
Keep your goddamn morals out of other’s lives. Especially an animal that has no say in the matter.
You are on to something here.
You should not feed plants to a carnivore
You can feed plants to a carnivore, just don’t expect it to be enough.
My dog, for example, loves carrots and cucumbers. They make great treats for him. But please don’t substitute real meat food that he has evolved to eat with carrots and cucumbers
Dogs are omnivores like pigs or humans. They can get everything their body needs from plants. Cats are carnivores, their digestive system is completely different, they are designed to eat raw meat.
We are not. If the meat is slightly too old, too warm, not well cooked we get super sick. Pigs eat a rotten squirel and be fine.Aren’t dogs some type of omnivores instead of carnivores?
Whoah whoah whoah. Let’s chill with the general fuck vegans statement. Most vegans are just people. Now the psycho vegans who try to make their cats eat vegan. Fuck those people. But broad statements like “fuck this group” tend to stick in people’s heads and promote undeserved hate. “Fuck the Nazi’s”? Yeah. “Fuck Germans”? No.
Then “most vegans” need to tell those vegans to shut the fuck up. Just like the Germans did the Nazis.
I’m stuck with a memory I can never get rid of because some piece of shit decided to do that to this poor animal. It couldn’t even hold it’s head up because it was infected so bad and didn’t even have to the energy to live. I got to sit there and watch it’s life slip from it’s body and there was nothing I could do. It was withered to bones.
They never saw jail time or even punished in the slightest amount.
So don’t come in here telling me to play nice.
Fuck.
Vegans.
So… you had one experience and now you associate that with all people you think are the same?
I dunno, seems a bit extreme.
If a sick cat upsets you so much, then watch out when you learn about the incredible suffering, misery and billions of deaths caused by the global animal industry. I’m vegan because I watched the videos most “animal lovers” refuse to look at. Unspeakable horror, 24/7.
It’s not fair to assume a member of a population is guilty until they condemn/renounce the problematic members of their population. I remember there being a problem after 9/11 where some people expected individual Muslims to publicly condemn Al Qaeda or else be assumed complicit. If it wasn’t alright there, it’s not alright here.
Don’t even bother.
That person is so obviously full of shit, picking the most obvious and easiest strawman to beat on.
I am vegetarian and know many vegans.
None would even think about torturing our pets to death with food that is not edible for the specific species.On the other hands I have heard multiple omnivores tell stories about how they “know” crazy vegans that would do shit like that.
There are some crazies (like in any big group of people) and I can’t know if OP accidentally ran into one, but the way they generalize makes it clear to me that they are the one with issues, not every run of the mill vegan.
Vegans usually care a great deal about animals, including carnivorous animals. So fuck them right back for spewing their indiscriminate hatred.
And also: Shouldn’t forcing an animal to live you for the lulz be a problem in general for vegans? The animal didn’t choose to live in your cramped studio apartment just to comfort you.
Animal ownership is, in fact, seen as unethical by some vegans.
Sounds more reasonable to me than forcing unnatural diets onto animals that cannot consent.
That’s okay, they’re just vegans.
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Next up we need to officially protect Star Trek fans
Make it so.
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What if I like both?
And could I register as a member of a sub-belief? Like, I’m a true believer of the unified collective of the Borg?
You ever see the movie Raw? Yeah not good
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I only make it through the first fifteen seconds of the Pornhub one.
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I’m pretty sure they’re talking about the Eddie Murphy special.
xd
Context: official c/vegan post, lemmy.world admin post 1 of 2
TL;DR: Debate over whether claiming that plant-based diets for carnivorous animals could be safe constitutes encouraging animal abuse + whether an admin’s reaction to demote the entire mod team was justifiedMan, they don’t take kindly to being called out, do they?
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Wow that is a proper trash fire comment section! Haven’t seen one that stinky since I left reddit
“Meatsplained” made my day though fr.
I read it as “meatspinned” the first time and was confused on how that was relevant to veganism.
I mean, they’re vegans. What exactly did you expect?
Censorship of dissidence discussions due to “misinformation,” “disinformation,” and only allowing “science.”
Our science institutions and media are just as corrupt as our politicians; that is why critical thinking should be encouraged instead of more censorship to baby the people.
🤦♀️
Keeping predatory grifters away from health discourse is on a different level than discussions of differing opinions.
This person you’re replying to is basically Lemmy’s Goebbels.
You really like to smear people anywhere you go.
Can’t expect much from Satan, you bring shame to your name.
What are your thoughts on the Russian invasion of Ukraine?
Oh no… (We are about to see an explosion)
So slightly right of Stalin? We know how you love to name call people
I don’t understand your comment, can you explain it please?
You like to call people names. I’ve seen you around, you do it a bit more often than most.
I don’t recognize you, what communities do you frequent?
The mods were removed because they were deleting factual information
Liar calls scrubbing of misinformation “censorship”. In other news, bear shits in woods. More at 11.
liar
Joining in on the lemmy circle jerk of name calling those that don’t fall in line to your status quo.
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I don’t have a lot of context around this issue either as I don’t subscribe to c/vegan, but one could make a compelling argument that stating a claim which is at odds with science as being fact (rather than stating something like ‘I believe (or ‘These sources say’) that feeding cats plant-based diets is safe, but these sources disagree’) is in itself disinformation. Stating a disputed thing as fact is at the very least misleading, and when it’s dealing with the health of animals, that probably should be enough to attract scrutiny.
Yeah, I agree. I made a mistake by commenting on a topic I knew little about. Thanks for additional explanation!
The person you replied to is a troll. Don’t take the bait.
Well, I’m sorry. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Never thought my first interaction here would be like this. But it’s my fault.
You can just block or or ignore the posts that seem extreme and almost emotional. Those people are mostly the very far left.
Smear those that don’t follow the status quo.
The lemmy circle jerk continues.
it’s not up to admins to decide what is disinformation and what is not
Then who? You, perhaps? If garbage isn’t taken out we end up with extreme right insanity like injecting bleach for covid treatment. What you’re pushing for is literally called anarchism and it’s childish af.
I read a little more about this situation, and I agree after all. I made a mistake by jumping into a discussion I knew little about. I guess there are some topics that may be quite harmful.
Then who? You, perhaps?
I’ll be honest, this is close to what I was thinking initially. I believe the person who consumes information is responsible for checking if this same information is true. But now I see it may not be as simple.
I respect that you came back to share that.
it’s not up to admins to decide what is disinformation and what is not.
I agree, we are becoming much more similar to other social media sites.
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There must be some moderation or the loudest but stupidest would have the rest of us unable to have discussions. I don’t agree with demoting the entire mod team but ehh, cats are obligate carnivores. Not giving them meat will make them sick and possibly die. Encouraging that contrary to reality is encouraging animal abuse. If they want a vegan pet it can’t be a cat.
some moderation or the loudest but stupidest would have the rest of us unable to have discussions
I don’t agree on this; it is just using it as an excuse to censor dissent.
Not giving them meat will make them sick and possibly die.
Yes, many on Lemmy pointed that out, and enough reports were made that admins got heavily involved in the managing of the community, which should be a huge concern for those that left Reddit for similar reasons.
Discussions are good for those that can handle critical thinking, but it seems that any “science” not aligning to the status quo will be censored.
This goes back to more enforcement and more interference with what moderators want vs. admins vs. users.
IMO: Like our society and our social media, Lemmy is becoming much more similar to a Police State.[1].
[1] Police State - DEAD PREZ | 03:40 | https://youtu.be/Ic-E7OHWvGQ ↩︎
some moderation or the loudest but stupidest would have the rest of us unable to have discussions
I don’t agree on this; it is just using it as an excuse to censor dissent.
You WOULD think so, being one of the loudest and stupidest.
The controversy is about abusing cats, who are obligate carnivores, by forcing them to be vegan. It’s about not enabling animal abuse, not censorship overreach.
Joining in the lemmy circle jerk of name calling anyone that does not align to your thinking, nice.
There’s “not aligning” and then there’s “spreading misinformation in furtherance of animal abuse”.
You’re firmly in the latter camp, so you can gtfo with your persecution complex bullshit.
Discussions are good for those that can handle critical thinking, but it seems that any “science” not aligning to the status quo will be censored.
Unless your quotes around ‘science’ are intended to refer to things that are not actually science at all, you’ve got the situation backwards. In this case, it was the status quo disagreeing with science (in a dangerous way) that was being censored, but honestly, I don’t think that’s bad in this case…? Someone who legitimately doesn’t know better could easily go to a thread like that, see a lot of folks saying “Oh, yeah, you can do this!”, and assume it’s true.
It’s similar to if I posted a bunch of BS stating that bleach could be used in place of milk in cereal if you run out. That should be censored, because unless you subscribe to the belief that people shouldn’t be prevented from making stupid mistakes if they’re not smart enough to do their own research, it has no chance of doing good to leave it, but some chance of doing harm. Like, how definitively factually inaccurate does something need to be, in your opinion, before it can be censored?
Can you explain why you believe that the science institutions are corrupt?
it’s the exercise of soft power from the state that has always made academic pursuits suspect, if you go against the narrative you might find your funding cut. but I’m sure OP can speak for themselves.
How can you go against the narrative before you publish the research with some funding?
it’s the threat of losing funding not the withholding of funding before the fact.
self censorship is much cheaper than any other form of enforcement.
and you think publishing won’t allow journals to sell stories to the press and sell more copies and shake up the industry, leading to awareness and campaigns to fund the scientist? there’s like no information online on self-censorship in academia, not even from 2nd world countries, so this sounds really sketchy.
that would be a nice world to live in wouldn’t it.
the one thing that distinguishes “conspiracy” theories from plausible theories is the absence of evidence
As someone who’s been a STEM researcher for about a decade, this person has no clue what they are talking about
how many reproduction studies have you had published?
reproduction studies
What the hell are you talking about, what is a reproduction study?
You either mean a reproducible study or a study specifically on something reproducing which is irrelevant. Again you don’t even know what you are talking about and 3 from college, I work in industry now so I don’t publish. We also directly collaborate with a large university and a national laboratory, so I know a thing or two about how grant funding is acquired from both an academic and industrial side(industries such as mine actually fund studies that do get publicly published). There are absolutely issues with politics in academia, it just isn’t what you are describing.
Are you sure you’re not just self-censoring?
Cats are obligate carnivores. Forcing them on a vegan diet is animal abuse
I am not disputing that claim.
I am pointing out the “science” that started the whole event.
IIRC, it was a reputable source, not just some random website talking conspiracies.
I wonder if we need some kind of middle ground like Twitter where you leave the content up, with a big banner saying “this content is bullshit and here is the evidence”?
While I agree that harmful information should probably be hidden so that impressionable people don’t act on it, I also don’t like non-experts being the arbiters of censorship.
Lock the thread with a pinned comment to some actual evidence proving them wrong would be the closest alternative we have.
Yeah, and that’s… Ok.
But I’d like something that was more visible without going into the comments, so people could see it in their feedNot to mention how much it puts on the shoulders of moderators to have to fact check every post/comment and find reliable sources to ensure false information isn’t spread. It would likely be unsustainable without a lot of funding if the platform expands furrher over time.
Yeah, but here the Admins had to step in because the mods would do the exact opposite, so that’s also not really an option.
Ideally the mod should’ve pinned a comment with the risks and a disclaimer about the serious ethical concerns. They instead deleted legitimate information.
Vegans argued that cats, which are obligate carnivores, can eat a vegan diet safely. Lemmy.world admin removed the posts for being misinformation, and the vegan community threw a fit over it.
Jeez that is awful! People: if you want a vegan pet, get a rabbit! They are so sweet! There are tons of them in the shelter system, especially after Easter.
I swear they’re the funniest and most affectionate four legged friends around!
I have heard that they’re little fucks, they’ll just bounce to your leg to bite it and shit.
I really hate how many people are spreading disinfo for no reason here. We should be better than that.
The vegans stated very clearly that current science shows that the cat would need a fuckton of supplements and attention to be on a vegan diet but it’s functional.
The admins then overstepped and removed such comments.
I’m not going to argue the validity of any of those claims as I’m not a vegan and I don’t care to research, but the vegan mods were a lot more reasonable than they’re being painted here.
The pet sector must die, pet ownership isn’t vegan, pet breeders are the enemies;
We’re not doing “optimal nutrition”, sorry. That biohacking shit to create immortal adopted pets isn’t going to work out. It’s hardly even clear for humans what the optimal diet is, and they pretend that they know what it is for cats??? These fools don’t even comprehend that evolution doesn’t give a shit about longevity. It’s a standard imposed by the marketing agencies of pet foods who want to milk pet owner feelings to have their pets die after they do. It’s a false standard that is great for advertising, but otherwise functions as a Nirvana fallacy machine.
This is just a rephrase, but pet ownership is bourgeois. Well, aristocratic, then bourgeois. Detach. This isn’t about you, you don’t get to annex a sentient being just to keep them as an emotional service slave or as a status symbol. This one is especially for Americans where pets live better than poor people.
Uh. Hardly reasonable.
Are you just posting a random comment to me or what? What relevance does this have to the admin retaliations?
That’s one of the Vegan mods on .world expressing their views on vegan diets for cats. That’s not “The vegans stated very clearly that current science shows that the cat would need a fuckton of supplements and attention to be on a vegan diet but it’s functional.”, that’s outright “Science doesn’t know shit” lunacy.
That’s not the comment which caused this whole issue. It seems to me you’re cherry picking out of context
Alright, since “Things the mods have said” isn’t acceptable evidence for whether or not the mods are pushing ridiculous views on vegan diets for cats, and not just “The vegans stated very clearly that current science shows that the cat would need a fuckton of supplements and attention to be on a vegan diet but it’s functional”, I suppose them saying the ASPCA doesn’t know what they’re talking about, while THEIR simple ‘common sense’ allows them to understand a cat’s TRUE dietary needs is also kosher?
This whole thing comes down to aggressively anti-scientific mods pushing misinformation and removing information to the contrary and getting removed by an admin for their troubles. Or was removing the link to the ASPCA for being ‘misinformation’ also a sign of how reasonable the c/Vegan mods were?
I don’t give a single solitary fuck what happens to Rooki. Whether they were too quick to remove or too uncivil or what. But defending misinformation, or defending mods pushing misinformation as just being reasonable? That gets my dander up.
The commentary you’re pointing is way more reasonable than you make it sound. I implore people to read the context themselves and not to trust summaries with rage bait agendas here.
Stop doing the reddit thing. Making people angry at people more radical than them isn’t helping.
Ask your vet what they think about a vegan diet for your pets. They will tell you “no”. That should really be the end to the discussion, but I guess these guys think they know better than actual experts.
But they Did tHerY owN rEsEaRCH
They’re alumni of FBU.
I think it can be done for dog if you are careful and know what you are doing. However, I still wouldn’t prioritize ethical views over the well being of my pets. That is very much animal abuse.
It’s so sad, because veganism is a good force in our culture. Look at all of the vegan meat alternatives and more and more restaurants that have to have at least vegetarian options in certain areas. That wasn’t a thing 20 years ago.
Vegan diets help the environment and improve health. But many vegans get this brain rot, probably a consequence of a superiority complex where they have to police everything around them. It happens in a lot of communities.
I’m not a vegan. But the idea has me eating less and less meat every year.
I imagine most vegans are just ordinary people. And hell, good on them for making the environmentally friendly choice. I’ve been excited that my local stores are starting to carry plant-based alternatives that aren’t expensive as hell. Fuck are the weirdos loud, though.
Impossible burgers are better than beef burgers and I’m fully prepared to die on this hill.
But I still eat meat, I just like that there’s options
I wouldn’t mind switching to a complete vegetarian diet if they can get deep-fried chicken substitutes right.
I’ve made beyond smash burgers that are terrible for you, but sooo tasty.
KFC has a very good breaded fake chicken burger
Not better…but 95% there. I will order it anytime I can if it’s reasonable price.
Some of it can be really tasty! Cooking vegetarian all the time isn’t as hard as it used to be. Gotta keep that cholesterol down 🤪
Remember you’re only seeing the very online vegan.
Okay, I troll the hell out of vegans online, because it’s easy and always entertaining. So, anyone coming along after this, take that into account.
But, you nailed it. There’s a subsection of vegans that treat it like a religion, and anyone else as infidels. That superiority complex, the smugness is a huge detriment to vegan living and principles.
But (and here’s why I made the disclaimer), they’re a minority overall. I know too many vegans irl that are chill, wonderful people following their beliefs and ideals without being jerks about it. Vegetarians too, though that’s tangential.
It’s really online that the asshole hats get put on the most, and usually only on sites/services that make it easy to be anonymous. Which is a good thing! Anonymous discourse is not just important, it’s vital to part of humans becoming better than what we are. But there will always be people that hide their true selves until they’re anonymous and can feel safe, and that includes people that are smug, arrogant assholes down deep. It also includes people that don’t feel safe being an outsider or dissenter, and people that are awesome down deep, but have to keep up a front irl.
Anyway my point is that we, the non vegans of the world, have to be careful to not forget the human. Vegans are mostly deeply compassionate, kind souls that want the best for anyone and everyone, including animals. We don’t have to agree with them, just remember that the loudest, most obnoxious voices aren’t the sum total of the vegan community.
I think people confuse the Political Based Vegan lifestyle and the Dietary Plant-based Vegan. They are not the same. Most people hate the political wing because they just cannot shut up. I do not want to be subjected to your religion, and you are not helping the animals you claim to. Dietary people just choose healthier options for themselves and don’t evangelize to others.
This checks the Vegan Bullshit Bingo:
Calling veganism a religion sounds like an attempt at discrediting it as unreasonable and irrational, just to not seriously deal with it. As veganism is based on facts, logic and common sense, it is the exact opposite of a religion. Consuming animal products though, mostly means blindly following irrational traditions and ignoring the facts or refusing them by reasoning: “That’s how we’ve always done it”. That sounds more like a religion to me…No one said veganism is a religion, but it IS a political standpoint and philosophical and moral practice.
Just read the first two paragraphs of wikipedia, it makes it clear.
Following a plant based diet is one thing, being a Vegan is different.
My MIL likes to pull out the phrase “indoctornated” anytime a doctor/vet/educated professional disagrees with her hardcore plant based diet views for all people and animals
“indoctornated”
Sovereign: “assuming direct control”
