Product elitism is dumb.
And yet every time Apple announce a new product or feature, Android fans are here with their ‘welcome to the past’ memes.
So you dislike Apple, then? All they do is product elitism.
Yeah.
This isnt elitism, this is trying to show apple users they are being scammed. Sure, most of them are happy that way, but maybe some of us should have higher standards for ourselves
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Youre right, unfortunately the popular alternatives are not great, either.
It was fun before… like 20 years ago. Now it’s just… eh. Apple users don’t care about any of that. They want a device that “just works” and has their ecosystem. They’re trapped in it, but eh, what’s the point. They aren’t going to convert, and after converting some people you learn you just become tech support for them.
I‘ve used Android and iPhones for multiple years. Now I am using an iPhone and I am very happy. Main reasons are build quality and software. It just works. And the main advantage is primarily if you use multiple Apple devices. And since Android phones are expensive as fuck, too, I don’t care about the price anymore
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Seriously, does anyone think Apple users care about unlocked bootloaders and LDAC codecs? They want whatever the new iOS features are and their AirPods to work seamlessly.
I have an Android phone and an iPhone, and they both do pretty much the same thing. I can do some things with Android that iOS can’t, but it’s nothing an average user couldn’t do without, or even know they’re missing.
To be fair i do care quite a bit about that. Phones just make bad computers to me. Small screen and half is used by a keyboard.
They seem designed to frustrate me so “it just works (most times)” is the only way i can stomach owning one.
I have a dream where apple is forced to make ios fully open source and where screen/input devices can freely stream any system/OS from a dedicated server.
Iphones are so “cleverly” dumb it makes them usable.
where screen/input devices can freely stream any system/OS from a dedicated server.
I experimented with that, you can kinda do it with Android and an Android emulator. It was decent on the local network, ok with good cellular signal, and terrible when cellular wasn’t the greatest
I dunno, I had iPhone in my hand for app development, and I wanted to shoot it out of the cannon into the sun.
You have to understand the thinking process behind the UI, and it’s not ‘intuitive’ to everyone.
And I just couldn’t use it, it drove me crazy.
Switching OS is a pain. And when you aren’t using it as your daily driver, it just makes it worse. It took me a couple of weeks of exclusively using iOS for it to become comfortable. If I were using Android at the same time I doubt it would’ve ever stuck and I’d still be annoyed rather than quite comfortable and agile now.
Not being able to do some things is the biggest blocker.
Sideloading for instance. Photos disappearing inside the Photos app and not being in files is also weird. It just felt like I was a moron who couldn’t handle my own files.
They’re also all made by heartless megacorps anyway. None of the companies are really ‘good’ just different forms of terrible.
I’m gonna sound like an Apple fanboy but, I would say Apple is the least worst of them all. Don’t get me wrong, they’re still terrible and all the shit they do but, they at least seem like an okayish company. But I still hate the whole closed ecosystem, and the stupid non-repairability but, almost every phone is now like that sadly.
Apple installed nets on the roofs of their factories because too many workers committed suicide jumping off them.
I think even the average users are becomming aware because of how inferior iOS is. For example, all these things I’m going to mention below are doable on any Android (no root or bootloader required) since 2015 or even older versions while iPhone cant do shit:
iPhone cant temporarily disable apps, can’t prevent apps from using networks, cant disable system apps, cant open multi apps in mutli windows, cant location spoof, cant disable any system app or feature, cant customize themes or control anything in comparison.
Yes but 99.9% of users don’t care about any of that, that’s what others were saying in this conversation.
Just to bring my personal pov: I’m a tech guy and I couldn’t care less about any of those features. My phone is an appliance like my dishwasher, i only need it to do well the few things it does for me and the iPhone does them incredibly well. Productivity work and fun is done on real computers. I don’t care if android phones can purr or do somersaults.
If you like to do complicated stuff on your phone then those things matter to you and you will deem iOS inferior, and that’s fine. But realise you are planets away from the average user.
I’m using both iPhones and Android phones (vanilla and rooted), the only valid point you make is about using themes. I belong to to the 99,9% of users who don’t bother.
You forgot some important feature that Android phones have: They don’t pester you too much about privacy: they allow apps per default to use the GPS, message you, etc. Also they come with a lot of unneeded apps preinstalled, some of these being impossible to deinstall
You can uninstall a lot of Apple’s apps that come preinstalled on an iPhone. Not all of them, but a surprising amount.
They’re trapped in it
Oh my god, you really believe that.
They are as trapped as people are requiring Adobe products even though they fuck them as hard, or even harder, as apple.
Well I’m trapped in it (purchased software, connected devices). The fence is knee-high at most though.
Weirdly, a lot of them seem to care a whole lot about the color of their speech bubbles in their sms app
I’ve seen people spend money on less I guess
Except when the shitty ecosystem fucks with everyone else. Eg. when trying to get files from an iOS device to another phone. You need to use 3rd party software, which is almost exclusively shit on iOS and (at least in my school) no iPad kiddie managed to use local file sharing websites. The real kicker? Sharing stuff from the teachers iPad to the students does not work reliably either. Never. 20 students, and Apple can’t manage to transport shit. We resorted to uploading it to Teams - so much for Apple’s nice ecosystem for easily sharing files, which ends up taking 15+ Minutes.
They want a device that “just works” and has their ecosystem.
i have friends that struggle to pay rent and they’re forced to pay apple’s extortion-esque prices when something goes wrong or when purchasing their phones and equipment.
witnessing them suffer like this hits close to home for me because i grew up poor enough to ration out the government cheese & powdered milk along with asking extended family and begging neighbors for food so that we could stay alive until next payday and also because i’m tech savvy enough to understand how unscrupulously apple has behaved at creating this well designed trap of an ecosystem that’s actively easy to fall into and passively difficult to leave; locking my friends into a seeming perpetually repeating cycle of new iphones and government cheese.
i think that the icing on this shit-cake is that they’re all atleast vaguely aware that apple is screwing them over; but they still accept it because it either “just works” or it’s “all they know” and that blows my mind because 5-year-old-me HATED government powdered milk in my cereal enough to switch to oatmeal for breakfast if it were an option.
I would have shared the hell out of this meme on Facebook when I was ~18 years old.
mAh is a stupid way to measure batteries. Wh is more relevant.
It also tells nothing about the efficiency of the device. You can add a 50kWh battery to a device but it doesn’t matter if it uses 2kWh at idle
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A 4Ah battery at 5V would be a 20Wh battery, drop the kilo. Electronics draw power at idle, not energy. 2kWh is meaningless without an idle duration. What are you saying?
Wh may be better for determining total energy storage across differing cell chemistry. mAh is standard for electronics and makes more sense at the design level as the battery voltage is chemistry dependent and known to the designer.
What? They draw power, not energy?
Energy is just the product of power and time. And just like amperage, the power draw of a device varies.
And this should be obvious, but what makes more sense to an electronics engineer doesn’t matter one bit to the end user. And the end user doesn’t know anything about milli-amperes or volts (except maybe their wall outlet voltage).
Yes power is a rate. As you said energy is the time integral of power. So it’s meaningless to state an “energy draw” without a duration implied or explicit. E.g. what does drawing 2kWh at idle even mean?
I agree about end user sentiment. I was trying to suggest as well. The only way to know which battery/phone is going to have a better battery life is to identify reviews with similar usage to your own or cross-compare metrics across devices you’re familiar with. In general, phone A with a 4000mAh battery won’t necessarily outlast phone B with a 4500mAh batt.
Well you don’t say it draws 2 kWh at idle. You say it draws 2 kW at idle. While that is incredibly inefficient, it means that for every hour the device is idle, it draws 2 kWh of energy.
Oh yeah battery size isn’t sufficient to fully gauge battery life. You need to know power draw to calculate that. And it’s good to get battery life ratings from reviews. Great. It helps a lot.
But it doesn’t mean we shouldn’t get good, comparable physical specs.
Kinda like processors. Gigahertz and core counts are far from telling you everything, but it doesn’t mean it should be abstracted into some weird unit.
Per the kW vs kWh, see top level reply.
Yeah a metric would be nice but it would need a standard test. That’s why idle time and video playback time makes a good amount of sense. But it’s not entirely clear how that would translate into usage for example in back country (where cell network drains power harder) or travel. So it’s not perfect. But it is probably the best measure guven hardware and usage vatiation. In any case it’s subject to marketing dudging the numbers in various ways.
i don’t think any manufacturer publishes the voltage their devices run at, could be anywhere from 3.3 to 5V. so i don’t know how an end-user is supposed to compare battery sizes between devices.
They would also have to give current draw which isn’t really possible since each end user has different apps and behavior. So you more often get standby time or video playback time which are based on an “ideal” (probably non-bloated) clean OS. That’s more useful to an end user but also subject to marketing fudging the figures.
You can often look up the battery chemistry or use an app to access sensors btw.
At the end of the day battery capacity is only one factor of many in battery/charge life and is generally just marketing in the context of phones.
you can optimize your android device battery in ways iphones cant. For example you cant disable or remove any system app consuming your battery in iPhones, but that is instantly doable in Androids
Try disabling google play services.
To be fair, you can do pretty much anything on a rooted Android.
But I wouldn’t say “instantly” since you’d have to root it first.
Settings, apps, Google play services, disable. Very easy. Nobody is saying “you can disable any app you want on android and your phone will magically just keep running perfectly as though it’s not dependent on it” just that it is possible to do so. Yes, I understand disabling Google play services will cripple many features. It is however possible, and you’ll still have a functional phone afterwards. The same cannot be said about iPhones.
You can take background permissions from system apps on iOS
iphones cannot temporarily disable apps, cannot prevent specific apps from accessing network, cant spoof live location sharing, cannot even multi-window several apps at once. those are 4 simple examples which I personally find very helpful which all androids can do for more than 10 years already while iphone cant.
I’d argue Wh is a complete waste. Just use J, which is the much more established unit.
I disagree. Joules are really hard to understand to laypeople. Watt-hours directly relate to the power of a device without conversion, and can even be really translated in terms of power bill.
3.6 megajoules? Eh, I guess that’s maybe a lot? Or not?
1000 watt-hours? Oh, like running a microwave for a whole hour? Dang that’s a LOT!
I guess it comes down to whether we want to primarily communicate battery size in terms of charge (Coulombs = Amps * Time) or energy (Joules = Watts * Time).
The first metric you multiply by your operating voltage to get the second metric, whereas the second metric you have to divide by your voltage to get the first. Depends on what comes easier to most people.
With the increasing abundance of electric vehicles people are getting used to (k)Wh as the unit for battery size. It would make sense to use the same unit for smaller electronics as well, IMO.
I believe it actually has to do more with historical conventions in electronics or math. (This is just what I remember from heresay when I was in university as an electronics engineer), but there is also a mathematical reason.
history hearsay theory
The easiest way to measure power draw is by measuring current draw (voltage across a sense resistor) way back before there were affordable, quality ICs to measure voltage and current and pretty much joule count.
To add to this, current sensors are much easier and cheaper than test machines that do the calculations for you.
When lithium batteries and NiCAD batteries became standard compared to the earlier lead-acid (which are measured in Wh), they had an extremely flat voltage curve compared to lead acid. They could be considered to be at a constant voltage.
Now cheaper electronics were being made and if a designer wanted to know how long a battery would last, they could take the nominal battery voltage that the battery would be at a vast majority of the time, and they could just measure the current draw over a short time of the circuit, 10s of calculations, and you have your approximate battery life. There is a joke that engineers approximate π to 3.
Even designing electronics today, everything is specced to current draw, not power draw. ICs take X current in mA during Y operations. Your DCDC converters have Z quiescent currents and from there you can calculate efficiency. It is much easier to work in current for energy running through the circuit.
Math units
Ah is a measure of electrical charge.
Wh is a measure of energy
Batteries and capacitors hold charge so are measured in Ah, generators that power the grid generate energy and use of that energy is measured in Wh (it also isn’t a “constant” voltage source like batteries as it is AC)
The thing is, it does not matter how much charge the battery holds, it does matter how much energy it holds. Without knowing the Voltage the Ah is useless.
Sorry, but you are simply wrong. Simple math says that you are wrong.
You can buck or boost convert nearly any voltage to any other voltage.
Then measure the current output of the battery, boom you have battery life.
Also electrical charge can be used in many, many very valuable calculations without involving voltage at all.
Let’s take an arbitrary example with an arbitrary battery powered device. Let’s say the battery is somewhere between 1V and 10000000V. You can’t measure it because you might blow up your multimeter.
You know that the battery is 5000mAh. You can safely measure that all of the circuitry is draining 1000mA because sense resistors or contactless magnetic current measurements don’t have anywhere near dangerous voltages. You know that the battery will last about 5 hours. What is the voltage? Doesn’t matter.
Yes, charge and the flow of charge is not the entire story, but to say it is useless or does not matter is just a straight lie. It is fine if you don’t understand electronics, but then don’t spit out misinformation.
Yes Watt-hours would give a more complete picture to slightly tech-inclined consumers (makes 0 difference for 99% of consumers), but then it returns to not mattering because you can do the 5s calculation yourself because single cell lithium batteries are overwhelmingly 1 nominal voltage.
Literally 90% of calculations related to efficiency are JUST as valid using mA as W.
Your device uses 12mA at idle with a 5000mAh battery has the same relevance as your 18.5Wh battery using 45mW at idle.
I am ONLY speaking from a consumer position and for those Wh is more useful.
The consumer looks on device a and on device b and then determines how often he can recharge its device. With Ah you cannot do this unless you know the Voltage, with Wh you can make this decision without any further knowledge.
Yes this does not include battery life or conversion of efficiency. But a cunsumer measures nothing he looks at the lable.
It is fine if you don’t understand electronics, but then don’t spit out misinformation.
Btw. no need to insult me. I have never put out misinformation, I may have not stated enough that I am viewing this as a consumer.
Please explain to me what the difference is between battery life if you have a 5000mAh battery and an 18Wh battery.
Please state the calculation that you would use to “determine how often you have to recharge” that is valid for Wh and not for Ah. I am all for it. If you can cite a single source where the manufacturer gives a specification that would give battery life in Wh, and not in Ah, I will concede the entire argument and say that you were right the whole time in every comment make a note that you were right. Please show your calculation work.
The thing is, it does not matter how much charge the battery holds, it does matter how much energy it holds. Without knowing the Voltage the Ah is useless.
This is patently, objectively misinformation and completely false. That is a direct quote of your words, today. That was your last comment. I have already laid out multiple examples of how Ah is a useful measurement and what you can do with it. Therefore, it is misinformation. It is not disinformation, but stating untrue things as fact is misinformation, even if you have no idea you are wrong.
If you can cite a single source where the manufacturer gives a specification that would give battery life in Wh, and not in Ah, I will concede the entire argument and say that you were right the whole time in every comment make a note that you were right.
Basically every Laptop manufacturer.
Primary Battery
3-cell, 54 Wh, ExpressCharge™ Capable, ExpressCharge™ Boost Capable
Lol, you literally quoted me, didn’t actually read what you quoted, and then did something completely different.
Do you know that battery life ≠ battery capacity? That is not the same measurement as I have already tried to teach you 3 times.
Please state the calculation that you would use to “determine how often you have to recharge” that is valid for Wh and not for Ah.
What is its idle power draw? What is its power draw under load? Playing video? Sleep mode? That source gives nothing which determines battery life. All it gives is a nearly useless capacity number, just like all other manufacturers. So not valid at all. You still have exactly 0 more information about battery life.
If I am wrong, please state your calculations of what the battery life is with that 54Wh battery.
Your entire argument was “Ah is useless and Wh gives consumers the information to determine battery life” So go ahead, determine the battery life.
How is this any different at all if they said that it is a 5.8Ah battery? They don’t give any current or power draw.
As an exercise:
can you tell me the battery life difference between an arbitrary Laptop A with a 54Wh battery and Laptop B with a 27Wh battery?
Yes. I really wish all batteries used watt-hours. All it’d take would be for someone to design a phone that runs at a different voltage and their battery numbers would stop being comparable.
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That Sony retailed for $1300 when it launched
The iPhone goes for $800
The 13 Pro which released around the same time also had USB 3.2g2 and 120hz display. The Pros are clearly a better comparison.
That’s not to say Apple’s done good or anything, just a super expensive Android device vs the entry iPhone doesn’t seem like the best comparison
in 2021
The iPhone 13 was 2021.
op’s post was making the point that a lot of specs of the 2024 iphone 16 were already found on the 2021 sony xperia 1 III. I don’t really care about either, and you could use a lot of different 2021 android phones as a comparison. I don’t even think the comparison is entirely fair, but to ignore the fact that apple is clearly lagging behind android on certain aspects while hiding behind marketing is just misguided. Also, their phones are just overpriced because of price, and the innovation argument is getting old.
Thanks for the clarification!
goteeeem
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So, iPhones retain their value better?
€
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Apple was right to get rid of the 3.5 mm jack. Come at me.
How so?
Cause I don’t need one 🤪
You haven’t given your reasoning. You’re given nothing to “come at”.
I’m know. Mostly I was trolling. I personally would never use a 3.5 mm jack ever again. Once I started using Bluetooth headphones, I can’t possibly go back to cables. And a jack dedicated to that is pointless to me.
Fair enough.
For me personally, I love having technology from right before the explosion of Bluetooth integration. For example, I have stereo receivers and other sets of speakers that require that 3.5mm jack for input. Not having that jack on my current phone (Pixel 8) has made it more annoying to use these devices. Also, I still have an iPod Classic that I used to use exclusively in the car but now I have to carry it around more so it can be used with my old stereos.
Also, I can’t stand the bluetooth latency; especially in the car. If I’m parked having lunch somewhere, I can’t watch a video without a terrible audio desync.
I still value the 3.5mm jack.
I imagine 3.5 is all around a better quality connection than Bluetooth. Like WiFi can never compete with wired.
They forgot to put a balanced output jack in place of it.
IPhone is a overpriced shit^^
60 Hz in 2024 is crazy, aside from the fact that iPhones have been the same for the past 6 generations.
What are y’all doing on your phones that 60hz isn’t enough. For the power user I guess but your average user. Makes no difference
I mean usage wise sure you still see the display either way. But high refresh rate is better for your eyes, especially when it’s a quality display with high PWM rate. There is a huge difference between an S24’s display and an iPhone 15’s. I can use the S24 without my eyes getting tired for hours, while my eyes get sore after viewing the iPhone for a while.
60 Hz in 2024 is crazy, aside from the fact that iPhones have been the same for the past 6 generations.
iPhone Pro has been 120Hz for a while now. Also
bigger base level storage andUSB. If you want the fancy specs you get the fancier phone.both 16 and 16 pro have 128 GB base storage
both 16 and 16 pro have 128 GB base storage
I stand corrected.
That said, if you up the price to match the pictured Xperia 1 iii ($1300 when new in 2021), the iPhone Pro (13 in 2021) will have 512GB (256GB for the Pro Max at $1200). Fancy price for a fancy phone.
At the end of the day people should just buy whatever phone fits their needs and their wallets, and let others do the same. Android phones are great. iPhones are great. We’re living in the future and other than the dystopian tendencies, it’s pretty awesome.
Just stating we shouldn’t have to pay over $1000 usd to get a 120hz display. This doesn’t justify it when you can buy phones with high refresh rate for $300
So buy the $300 phone! If the iPhone isn’t your cup of tea you don’t have to buy it. You’ll sacrifice some stuff to get the price point that low, but if they’re things you don’t want or need, awesome!
That Xperia 1 iii pictured? $1300 new in 2021.
i hope i don’t end up with the -4000 mAh battery if i buy the phone
If you had one you could sell it for millions to some thermodynamics denyers.
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I don’t really care about any of these things and I’m also fine being any number of years behind the current tech trends.
Obviously. Who would want to pay less money for a better phone? That’s absolutely ridiculous. In fact, why even get a new phone? We should all just be making yearly donations to apple for the privilege of keeping our old iPhones. God damn am I lucky to lick, suck, and deepthroat the boot. Feels so good.
Wow, to see an Xperia phone being used as an example instead of a bloody Samsung.
Good day to be an Xperia user.
Ya hear that?!
DOZENS!
Xperia is in my opinion the only phone left worth buying. It has all the bells and whistles you expect from a flagship phone + a headphone jack, SD card slot and very good camera.
I love being able to manually do what ever I want in the camera app and having the camera button is just nice.
Had the Xperia Z3 back in the day after my beloved Sony Ericson Xperia Play died. Loved both phones. Switched to Samsung for a few years and are now back to Sony (Xperia 1 IV) since 2023. Words can’t describe how happy I am being back. :D
I love Z3. I still mourn the loss of it to this day.
However, I must admit that Xperia quality hasn’t been the greatest in the recent years, with the light lines issue plaguing the 5 series from mk II onwards, and now the 1 VI has similar issues too.
What do you mean with “light lines issue”? I haven’t had any major problems with my Xperia so far. Sometimes it reboots after being on for a few months, but that’s about it.
This one. My 5 mk II is completely unusable due to this. It’s a well documented issue on the Xperia sub on reddit.
Oh wow that sucks. :( Haven’t seen that yet, but damn shame that it is common issue.
Does it appear after some time, or mostly DOA? Does Sony replace the broken devices?
It appears after some time. And no, Sony doesn’t acknowledge this issue, so you have to pay out of pocket if your warranty is over to replace the phone.
Oh wow that’s really shitty.
Thanks for the info! :)
Do they offer that in Vader?
If you consider pink close enough to red.
Dunno about other Androids, but just hitting the “power” (or wake or whatever it is) button 3 times on the Pixel pulls up the camera app. Even if the phone is currently locked. I think you can set it up so one of the physical buttons takes a photo as well but not 100% sure.
Yeah, the Sony phones do that as well. The special part of the camera button is that it acts like one on a proper camera. If you half press it (you can feel a slight change in resistance when you hit the spot) it engages the focus and then you can press it fully to take the picture.
I was able to program the Bixby button on my Samsung S10+ to take pictures as well, but it lacks the half press feature.
I miss my Xepria Z from 2013 :( one of the first waterproof phones in the US and I loved the novelty of taking it into the shower LMAO
What you doin’ with your phone in the shower >.>
If they had used a Samsung, half the android’s features would be missing.
Lol yeah
But also let people like stuff. Don’t be a snooty ass about it.Wait, Sony’s phones have unlockable bootloaders? If I’d known that, I would have bought one.
You have not even touched how limited iOS is compared to Android. I can list over 50 things any 2015 Android can do which iPhone 16 can’t. You basically have no control over anything in iPhone while in any Android even without rooting you control what every app access and how it’s allowed to work or at all. I was not even referring to customized OSes like graphene or calyos which give higher level of control.
And how many of those 50 things actually matter? They’re things you want to do, not things the average user needs to do.
Simplicity is the main feature and has been a staple of Apple products for 35 years I’ve been using them. It means we don’t have to spend ages tweaking settings, we can get on with more productive stuff.
But you still sadly have google services everywhere, popping up here and there, reminding you that they have control over apps
No, I don’t want to login with google or rate the app
Dont get up from Google only to jump on Apple’s balls.
Also your point is not valid because degoogling is possible with androids, but you can’t deapple an iphone. And btw many custom OSes dont require anything google no appstore or nothing. So what you’re complaining about has been solved and already out thereI would not call an OS where you can’t really start any “big” app a success. If you can’t do anything with it, what’s the point?
You can’t really degoogle a phone without sacrificing a lot of things. Most “degoogled” phones just use a compatibility layer that still gives google loads of infos
I would much rather have neither of Apple or google, but having to chose, I prefer Apple, at least they’re not on every website I visit
Btw you can “deapple” by jailbreaking but it becomes a huge pain, as degoogling is
Finding a good phone with good specs, a good OS that is elegant and doesn’t track you at an acceptable price with all the features just isn’t possible
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But when it comes to Apple I’m the customer and not the product?
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They’re the same. Apple just has better marketing.
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