Imagine getting outflacked from the left by a normal green socdem when you call yourself a democratic “socialist”
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aocia
It was on my bingo card
If any political story of my lifetime has disabused me of the notion of electoralism, it’s watching how the system has absorbed AOC and put her on the path to be the next Pelosi.
AOC
:agony:
I hate AOC more and more, there should be no illusion that she is looking for a long career as a Democrat party sheepdog. I always like Stein.
Hot take but… AOC is absolutely right. What are the greens doing in-between each election cycle? Are they winning down ballot/local elections? Are they organizing demonstrations? No. That loser Jill Stein just runs a failed campaign every 4 years. She’s not a comrade, she’s a grifter.
Say what you will about AOC or the DSA (I’m sure there is plenty of valid criticism), but at least they win and are executing on a plan to gain power. And while I think similarly of the PSL’s electoral strategy as the Greens, at least the PSL does phenomenal organization and activism.
Maybe there’s something I’m missing, but I fail to see what material benefits Stein/Greens actually provide. If you’re looking for a box to check that isn’t D/R, by all means vote for the G. But I don’t really see any material reason to donate or promote the Greens.
but at least they win
Yes, we know that the USian uniparty wins elections. Why did you put ‘at least’ there, as if that’s somehow a good thing?
Back in the day, the Greens could win small seats and get some good stuff through on a State level. They do seem to have faded from public consciousness after the Bush admin, though.
Jill Stien is only doing what the Union wanted her to do
but at least they win and are executing on a plan to gain power
Yeah, gaining power in service of genocide and the persecution of immigrants
But I don’t really see any material reason to donate or promote the Greens.
Anything that reduces the power and vote share of the two parties is a material benefit for the working class, even a shitty green party getting a slightly larger share of the vote falls squarely under the harm reduction rubric left libs love to chirp about
Death by a thousand cuts is the best the western left can hope for, and every cut counts
The theory of voting third party is very simple:
Imagine politicians are all grifters, who want to get power and/or parlay revolving door through some deal making inside congress (imagine). If one party ideologically closest to you forces you to eat shit via spoiling votes, you either have to make policy deals or spend your days fighting battles with them (and not making deals to get board membership at some ngo).
I dont see how you can see entrism in a neoliberal party guilty of supporting genocide as a winning strategy, the squad got reduced by 2 member this year and will probably drop more, the DSA has lost like 30k members from their peak and its still bleeding members, The dems have become even more right wing copying policies from trump
As small as the greens or the psl are they have seen more success than the dsa
Aoc doesn’t really build off dsa anymore to be fair. Dsa can’t even run it’s own budget right. They provided a little extra volunteer power for bernie campaign got a huge influx of people and have been in decline since he dropped out of running for Prez. Dsa is a dead end.
Greens are a waste of time though yes.
Say what you will about AOC or the DSA (I’m sure there is plenty of valid criticism), but at least they win and are executing on a plan to gain power.
Say what you will about the national socialists but at least they win and are executing on a plan to gain power. Also lmao at AOC and DSA in the same sentence in 2024
i dont give a shit if AOC ‘wins’ if “gaining power” means stooging for imperialism. also, i’m not a green by any measure but they do put resources into local elections, sometimes extremely local like schoolboards and selectboards, but there are only a few states where you can run as a green and not be immediately ritually slaughtered by democrats and republicans, sometimes in concert. there’s really no critique of them that you can’t make of any electoralist party in the US but if youre going to expend the effort to vote there’s no material reason not to vote for any greens down ballot over democrats.
Say what you will about AOC or the DSA (I’m sure there is plenty of valid criticism), but at least they win and are executing on a plan to gain power.
Why is this a good thing? The Nazis apparently knew how to gain power. Should I support them?
What’s the point of congratulating AOC on getting elected if she supports genocide? If you want that, you can vote for the other two parties anyways.
Stein is mostly a gadfly, but gadflies get attention. The dems have no incentive to court leftist votes if they assume we’re too small to make an impact or we’ll fall in line no matter what they say. The possibility of the Green party becoming viable is one way to demonstrate that that isn’t true. I prefer PSL as well, but it looks like the Greens are marginally better known and currently ahead in ballot access.
As for AOC and the DSA, the latter rescinded its endorsement of the former, so I don’t think you can treat them as associated. As for why that endorsement was rescinded, it was because AOC got that power and then refused to use it to advance the DSA’s objectives. She executed on a plan to gain power, sure, but she’s not putting that power to good use, so I don’t know what the lesson is there. It’s easier to get power if you submit to the establishment?
The Greens haven’t gotten a president but they absolutely do campaign and win at the local level. And PSL isn’t on the ballot everywhere so they’re the next best option. https://www.gpelections.org/greens-in-office/
Ah, the tried and true succdem tactic of “punching left” (at other succdems lmao). Worked great in Germany in the last 20s, the SPD secured power for eternity and Germany has achieved socialism.
I still cannot believe I thought this woman was cool
God the Overton Window in the US is so fucked lmao
Seriously, Greens would be considered conservatives in Cuba or even France. Yet they’re still somehow leftwing extremists compared to progressives within the DNC.
Sadly not just in the USA. Getting fucked everywhere
At least in other places it seems like the economy receding or stagnating has led to some measured resurgence of keynesianism or some resistance to neoliberalism in forms that are distinct from fascism, i.e. left wing populism. In the US the only response to the failure of neoliberalism is more neoliberalism, and anyone who wants an alternative is attacked as a stooge for the fascists (who also just want more neoliberalism).
They do actually have a shot at winning though.
As much as people like Claudia are 100x better, the Green’s have over 270 possible electoral votes
AOC wouldn’t be shit-stirring (against a party that she once campaigned for) unless shit was really hitting the fan for the dems.
What I want to see is third parties targeting local and state elections where they have a chance of getting in office as opposed to presidential elections which are just neutered demonstrations. I must see the PSL take Chattanooga.
Is there a reason why we haven’t seen this happen?
I get that PSL does the Presidential campaign for exposure, but I don’t see why they don’t do local campaigns where they could actually organize a victory. Shit like that is why I feel like participating in PSL would just be pointless protests without much substance or wins.
Granted, I feel that way about the other parties too. I also talk a lot of shit about DSA but at least they’ve ran candidates and won.
Can you give me a source for that? I saw the Breakfast club interview, and as much as I want to believe they have a genuine chance to win many electoral votes, are they not just mostly scrambling to get enough Dem voters to force Dems to make concessions?
To be completely honest, no candidates are likely to beat the Imperialist/Fascist combo of Kamala/Trump.
However, the Green’s have waaaaay over 270 possible electoral votes
Versus the map that the Dems keep sharing
And they’re having AOC campaign against her old party (and acting like she’s never even heard of the Green Party that she took the Green New Deal from)
That, along w/ forcing large lib talk-shows to shit on RFK/Stein/Claudia, makes me think that the dem’s internal polls must be abysmal and they are 100% not winning.
Can we get the libs on board for anything left of “hunting the poors for sport”? Likely not
Edit: To clarify, I would vastly prefer the PSL, but I think the Greens have a genuine shot (albeit, likely very naive of me to think so)
And they’re having AOC campaign against her old party (and acting like she’s never even heard of the Green Party that she took the Green New Deal from)
Tbf If i’m a high level politician with the dem, i would keep a person who betrays her old party on a leash and keep giving them crumbs
Greens don’t really have any shot to do anything of substance. But voting for them pisses off libs so it’s the best option for voting currently.
God she is such a fucking rat
The reason why voting Green is productive(ish) is that if they get a high enough % than they get certain rights as a “legitimate” party. Certain federal funds and ballot access are the basic ones. I think if they get a certain amount then they’ll also be included in the presidential debates. If they ever get that far it may just tip their legitimacy enough to make them a viable third-party.
I think if they get a certain amount then they’ll also be included in the presidential debates.
like most things in the us political system this is actually not formalized and afaik is just a handshake deal between the parties and the news networks that put on the debates. I’ve heard polling thresholds bandied about in the past for primary debates but only as a way to exclude candidates, never a consistent number that small parties can actually reach.
i’ve been saying, these days in western capitalist countries being to the left of mussolini is considered a threat to the system.
The problem with the Overton window argument is that democrats move right even when they win
“We lost? It’s because we didn’t do enough to appeal to conservative voters!” “We won? In the spirit of unity, it’s time to work across the aisle with our Republican colleagues.”🥰
God the Overton Window in the US is so fucked lmao
I have low expectations and still I was surprised by Kamala “FUCK YOU I LOVE FRACKING” Harris’ showing during the debate
She seriously sounded like an early aughts Republican it was quite jarring
“Organize, build power and infrastructure” to enact mass killing and starvation of Palestinians.
Spicy Stein
if the green party is a threat to your candidate they’re already cooked
AOsi Pelosi
Democrats try not to do genocidal imperialism for one presidential term challenge (impossible)
i wish I could go back to 2015 and 2019 and get all my $27’s back
My then girlfriend convinced me to join her in donating hundreds to candidates like Bernie, AOC, and other smaller, local people. We even bought cringe merch. I never wore it, even while they were still in our good graces.I was always very skeptical of them but thought and hoped maybe I would be proven wrong, and if it went well then it would very much be worth it. It was my first time but I’ll never donate to these social fascist campaigns again.
I’m so grateful it’s only one 27 for me 🙏
"hey it’s me, i mean you, i’m from the future. you’re not ready to hear this, but…
spoiler
they’re all nazis!!
… you should spend that $27 on weed"
unfortunately you now are on all DNC mailing and texting lists forever
This is the saddest truth of it. Their texts are the fucking worst.
unsubscribing does nothing. I was absolutely finessed
I don’t want to do the math on how much I’ve donated but I can tell you now its been more than $27.
WIsh I could go back to 2015 just for grocery shopping tbh
Collecting PlayStation 2 games was such a cheap hobby back then
Magic The Gathering was good
