Well, with how the country is handling the migrants, they proved that they could have solved homelessness the whole time,
Trans people being put in camps? Nope. Just the gender reassignment for minors is an issue. Just because people disagree doesn’t mean trans people would become ostracized. Maybe if trans women would stop begging for attention because men are always the problem. Never see any issues from trans men. Only skewed views coming from them is their belief of “men can get pregnant”. Let’s not confuse opinions with facts. I don’t have issues with trans people but if society has to revolve around them rather than them assimilating with their preferred gender, then that affects everyone.
Us and gay people would become third class citizens? Are we not all Americans? Why segregate the gays as if they’re special? We’re all Americans. The flag represents us all too. Maybe we should start acting like it.
No one is forcing you to read the Bible. But it’s good to be versed in it. It’s one of the oldest books after all. Even if it is all made up. Religion shouldn’t rule our lives either. I wonder if religion is banned, that sex crimes would slowly drop. Maybe.
The only issue is abortion. But people who want abortions more than any issue resolved is insane. If the government has to intervene, maybe they should make sure parents raise their kids with respect , decency and tolerance and maybe most abortions can be preemptively prevented. Only the medical cases would be necessary.
Abortions can be a useful procedure if used properly. If you constantly get one because you always have unprotected sex, you’re irresponsible. If a man constantly gives a woman a need for one, perhaps that man should get snipped.
IDK. There seems to be a logical solution for these problems, but of course we don’t have time for any of that. Or capable.
Forgive my ignorance please, I’m not an american. I see these posts often on reddit and lemmy, but shouldn’t these posts be displayed on tiktok, billboards, or anywhere that those poeple who don’t vote frequent? Is there any stat at all to show whether such posts work?
shouldn’t these posts be displayed on tiktok, billboards, or anywhere that those poeple who don’t vote frequent?
No. This is all just preaching to the choir for karma.
There is no karma on Lemmy
Yes there is. It’s just more self gratifying and less purposeful though.
People still vote based on “in-group” logic and moral opinions whether comments add to discussions or not. People still act superior on here for feeling they have support when getting upvotes.
I think it’s actually mostly a product of the overton window kind of being split, but, not really split in the ways that you might think. It’s not so much that each party is getting more extreme in what their actual beliefs are, it’s just that people are getting more extreme in their rhetoric, more extreme in their isolation. This, if anything, encourages people they disagree with not to vote. You need only look beneath these kinds of posts to see the sheer amount of people that chirp up, disagree at any time, and then totally fail to be convinced.
No, much like underpantsweevil said, this is purely something that’s for the in-group, to make them feel good, to make them feel like they’re doing something productive, and more than any of that, it’s a way for them to work out ideological insecurities and reinforce pre-existing beliefs. Which further feeds into that rhetorical isolation. Keep that running for 30 years online (maybe more like 10 if you’re just considering web 2.0), and you shake out to about where we are now. Continue this for another 10 or 20 years and you’re probably directly headed for some absolutely heinous shit as the gulf gets wider and wider.
Pay no attention to them, they want people to vote for someone who supports genocide. They know they’re losing so they’re doing everything and anything they can right now, just tune them out.
So your solution is to let Trump win and make everyone but the rich pay for that genocide, probably destroy us democracy, while all this will change nothing for Palestine ?
Dude there are 2 options in the us both support genocide just one of them wants to deport every immigrant and put in a ton of awful policies And genuinely is a threat to democracy pick the better option and vote
one of them wants to deport every immigrant
They both deport the same amounts of immigrants: https://ohss.dhs.gov/topics/immigration/yearbook/2019/table39 Obama deported more than Trump
a threat to democracy
You just admitted that you don’t have democracy two seconds ago. You can’t say “I have no choice but to let my rulers commit genocide in my name” and two seconds later say “We have a democracy worth defending”
Have you not heard their new plans for deportation its going to be wayyy worse than he was when he was in office.
At least there are 2 shitty options versus none
The democrats have also drifted rightward on deportation in this election, saying that they’ll be harder on the border than trump was in 2016, which, again, they already had been doing. The cost benefit here is an argument over whether or not one or the other will be like, 5% worse, and some of us, like you’ve just been sent evidence for in the previous comment, aren’t even convinced that the democrats will be any better.
Perhaps there is a third approach here, yes? Perhaps there is something in the specifics of this lack of actual, tangible democracy that exists for people, that means your specific vote is mostly meaningless anyways, which means it’s freed up to be thrown at some third party candidate, yes? Do you live in a swing state? Do you live in a gerrymandered swing district in one of said swing states? Do you live in a state where your electoral college candidate has to obey your vote? If the answer to any of those was no, then congrats, you basically have free reign to vote for whoever actually aligns closest to your beliefs, because your vote doesn’t actually matter.
Bullshit. Your vote matters. It might not impact you local election but the more obviously backward the electoral college looks the more likely someone will throw it in the trash like they should have decades ago.
Do you have any actual argument other than just saying “Bullshit. your vote matters.” though? Anything more to back that up, with a basis in how the system actually functions? Do you think the democrats will legitimately provide a challenge to FPTP voting? To the electoral college? Do you think the republicans will? How would that get overturned, what would that actually look like?
There’s no point arguing with MAGA about who to vote for. Just point, laugh, and move on. It’s the 11th hour. They’re not going to stop now.
True
Both support genocide, it’s not just the democrats.
A LOT of the time spent being an adult is about making choices where only bad ones are available. You don’t have to like one or the other but you have to be grown enough to recognize the difference between an orange hippo flinging shit around and someone who you can trust won’t be taking an actual shit at the table during a meeting with heads of state
Love seeing bullshit like this downvoted. It goes to show how common sense and an adherence to reality can effectively stand up against propagandist bullshit.
This is assuming that the dems are anything but Captialist lapdogs, and willing to do any of this. They will not I am sorry to tell you that
Your opinion is not welcome on Lemmy!
Get out of here! Downvoted.
#VoteKamala
1 what lemmy lemmy.ml lemmy.world lemm.ee lemmygrad please specify [email protected] I need you to be more specific
Second Oh no your down vote hurt me so much how will I ever recover that someone on the internet disagreed with me.
This is assuming that the dems are anything but Captialist lapdogs
It assumes Dems are in the majority at a uniform distribution. As though an extra 10M Californians voting for Harris will bend the needle on a race in Ohio or North Carolina or Texas.
Nevermind the “You get a supermajority and can pass anything you want!” is a scenario we already had in 2009. And what happened? Big bank bailouts. Lukewarm regulations. A bloated Pentagon churning out failed project after failed project to the tune of trillions. No DC statehood. No SCOTUS majority. No gun control. No immigration reform. No Single Payer. No Abortion enshrinement.
Republicans only hold power because you let them hold power
True! But only for the leadership of the party. When grassroot Dems turnout in droves, the senior leadership takes office on a platform of Bipartisanship and Cooperation. When grassroot Dems collapse in exhaustion and despair, suddenly you’ve got a Unitary Executive and a Simple Majority in the House and Senate and a SCOTUS that can tear up the Social Contract at its leisure all stacked in the favor of Republicans.
What does happen if Harris wins big in November? Do Democrats get anything they were promised over the last 30 years? Or do we get a Democratic President more fixated on going to war with Iran and “balancing the budget” on the backs of SS/Medicare than offering an improved quality of life for American residents?
no matter what time it is going to be the second, agian the Democrats are not beholden to the people, they know who’s intrests they serve and they lerch farther to the right each election
They only held a supermajority in the Senate for 72 days. The Minnesota seat was disputed and another democrat died of a tumor. Plus, enshrinement was not important back then as RvW wasn’t considered to be in danger.
God, I hate fighting people just to get them to vote in a way that makes mathematic and strategic sense.
I have a really hard time staying cool and collected when I discuss politics with people who hold right-wing positions. As a result, I never do volunteer work for political campaigns, because it seems like the only positions available are phone-banking and door-knocking. It’s frustrating; I want to help, but I feel strongly that I’d do more harm than good, doing either of those things.
To be fair, you’re looking at either getting shot at, going to jail for assault of a nazi, or at best, suffer a heart attack from the sheer blood pressure one gets dealing with those insufferable people. I think not volunteering is probably for the best, haha.
How about putting up signs?
Where meme?
Then with a supermajority the dems will talk about bipartisanship and you’ll watch the slowest change ever.
just like obama when they could have passed universal healthcare the dems stalled until the next election cycle
I recall they only had like 8 months of a super majority (if you include Manchin) before Ted Kennedy died in office and was replaced by Scott Brown.
Fuck that. Post trump they can GTFO.
“You” in this context, is reffering to over 200,000,000 individuals.
That’s right reader. YOU are responsible for this nightmare. If only you
recycled your plastics more,used a non plastic straw, shouted at your peers to vote, you could have prevented this hell hole. So hold yourself personally responsible and then push that anxiety and stress onto others without any nuance. Cause if you can prove your moral goodness maybe the world might be heaven without any work other than checking a box.This is not really at all accurate math and it won’t change the people happily voting the other way. Or the Electoral College. Or the ridiculous amount of bribes, corruption and party politics.
I hate this photo for so many reasons and I also think voting should be a mandatory holiday. I just refuse to pretend that this idea that it would fix everything because you yelled at enough people to
pray harder, vote more.Actual analyses done on this topic by Pew, Breugel, and National Affairs suggest this effect is largely not true. When considering the entire electorate, a significant number of non-voters lean Republican or are politically unaffiliated and would not support the democratic party.
Further research indicates that, despite popular belief, higher voter turnout does not consistently benefit either party across the board. Over the past 70 years, there has been no strong correlation between increases in turnout and the Democratic vote share in presidential or midterm elections. This suggests that while higher turnout could marginally favor Democrats, it might not drastically alter outcomes.
Democrats could gain some advantage from 100% turnout due to the inclusion of historically underrepresented groups, but the overall impact would likely be less substantial than expected, as the partisan balance among non-voters is more evenly distributed than commonly thought.
The notion that 100% voter turnout would deliver sweeping political control for Democrats is just a comforting illusion—one that feeds into the fantasy that everyone secretly agrees with you. Both parties indulge in this kind of wishful thinking, convinced that non-voters would tip the scales in their favor if only they showed up.
The truth is that America is fiercely divided, and non-voters are just as politically varied as regular voters. Believing otherwise is just a way to avoid confronting how split the country really is.
The government keeps fucking everyone but the democrats blame the republicans for it, and the republicans the democrats for it, not realizing they are talking about the exact same group of people.
I’m shocked either party can maintain the illusion at this point but thats just my perspective.
If you don’t see a difference between the current political parties, that seems like a you problem.
Sources please
I’m voting Democrat like I always do. I remember being the only non-right wing senior citizen looking person at my polling place for Hilary Clinton when no one showed up. Not with any hope, just so I can say I voted against gleeful hatred.
I’m just pissed that I will never, ever get a vote against market capitalism, as it controls both parties on economic policy and we only get a vote on how to manage the social issue symptoms it causes.
If you keep the left in power your can steer them left, if the right gets in power you reset your progress to 0
Resetting to 0 is a best case scenario for Republicans regaining control
0 what? 0 A.D.?
Could you walk me through steering them left when they’re in power? Over the years the democrats seem to only get more right wing. The thing is, I always thought that you steer politicians through your vote, and if I guarantee my vote to you regardless of what you have done in the past or are currently doing, what incentive do you have to change course in a way that I like?
It works the same way the Republicans have been steered further right while not in power. When Democrats have to worry about moderates, they move to the right. If they only have to worry about liberals, they can support and back more progressive positions. If they don’t, they are more likely to be primaried.
See also: the Tea Party takeover of the GOP which pushed them further down the path to the current fascism.
The criticism of the democrats is that they think they are on the left but they aren’t. They do represent a lot of Americans, but they don’t represent the true left very well at all.
You’re absolutely right about the current Democratic Party, but that party’s been pulled to the right by moderates and former moderate republicans. If the country really is more liberal than our representation would indicate, as put forth by the meme, then a more progressive voting populace will eventually result in more progressive liberal party. Right now everything is skewed to the right because of the oversized influence of moderates and moderate conservatives who don’t want to vote for fascism.
I think its the social shaming from democrats and republicans to third party voters. It reminds me of some of the stuff church cults do to prevent people leaving the group. Let people vote how they want to, or at the very least attempt to win them over with discussions and policy rather than throwing them under a bus.
There’s a lot of this assumption that democrats get more votes by going for moderates. Meanwhile they’ve alienated the entire left, and (I know, not a representative sample) but my Lemmy feed is jam packed with arguments about “you have to vote blue to stop fascism” vs “I really don’t don’t want to vote in favor of genocide”. No one seems to actually like the democrats, they’re whole appeal is basically “not fascist”.
Bernie Sanders got people excited, and while not exactly a leftist, he did represent a move toward the left. But they couldn’t let Bernie happen, he was too radical, apparently. You’ve heard the term “Bernie bro”, but where are the Biden bros? They aren’t, because Joe is boring.
So I don’t think they “have to worry about moderates”. The post here claims that if they could motivate people to go vote, they’d win. So offer something fresh. Present a real alternative to the inexorable right wing decline of all of US politics. Do you not think that would work? Why are they 0% willing to consider it?
Adding that both things need to happen for the country to reverse the rightward shift. More liberals need to vote, AND the party needs to recognize, or be shown in primary elections, that they can publicly embrace more liberal stances. On or the other and we wind up with the status quo.
the party needs to recognize, or be shown in primary elections, that they can publicly embrace more liberal stances
Not “can”. Need. Or else we, the voters, are at the whims of their donors. They “can” move left now. There is policy on the left that polls very well with the general populace, much better even than what they’re running with now. It’s just a matter of framing and defending good policy instead of limply letting the republicans run the show. Biden did it just a couple days ago “I never heard of getting lead out of the drinking water being a bad thing” (paraphrasing). That is what needs to happen, more broadly.
The only election that matters as to whether they as a party get to hold power or not is the general, thus it is the only election that can show them they need to do any particular thing to get a base of support large enough to get them elected.
They don’t want a majority, or they would have it. Easily. They’re playing the same game as Republicans, 50 + 1 to win. No less. No more.
The liberals will vote, and the left will too. If you motivate them with policy that actually stands up to criticism and makes voters more optimistic than cynical about a Democrat win.
The Dems need all 3 of presidency, house of reps, and Senate to do anything. And they’ve only had that for 4 of the last 24 years. Or 6 of the last 32 years. Or 6 of the last 44 years. That’s why they keep going to the center to find voters, because they need all 3 and basically never get it. So how do you get them to go left? By giving them consistent and overwhelming victories.
You realize this all happened with Gore and Bush, and then Obama and Hilary and so on. The story has been the same every time. End of a democracy, republicans will destroy the country, blah blah blah.
You know what else happens? The democrats talk a huge game before the election, and do fuck all with it while in office. Even if you take something like obamacare, it wouldnt have gotten passed if there wasnt money in it for the wealthy.
And just the non stop war crimes and global terrorism. You know its literally been my whole life that this country has done this and its never mattered who was in office. Military expansion in this day and age is absurd, and its harder and harder to hide the truth that most of our wealth is stolen.
Its like a mafia family that can’t hide that their protection racket is actually what’s causing the danger in the first place. Apparently we don’t need a godfather sequel because its here in real life on a national scale.
The actual incentive that they have should ideally be actual political activism that exercises some real and material form of leverage against their power. Seeing as these movements have all been totally deconstructed, mostly by the federal government, instead, you’ll find that the way you’re supposed to change the party is just by voting harder for them, and then just kind of hoping that they somehow naturally decide to swing left, after you’ve already handed them the keys to the kingdom. It’s pure cope, basically.
The thing is, I always thought that you steer politicians through your vote
To some extent, yes. However the amount of steering you can do this way is rather limited, since a vote only indicates a preference of one candidate over the other.
For example, if you decide to vote Republican out of protest, Democrats might conclude that you like republican policies, and to win your vote back, they need to move even further right. If you decide to stay home and not vote, you don’t really give any information to democrats what they actually need to do. They may decide that you are an unlikely voter in any case, and focus towards those folks most likely to turn out (that’s generally older white conservative folks).
One option is to vote for some leftist third party. This sends a pretty clear message about what policies you like. The problem is that, apart from the messaging, your vote is almost certainly wasted. You are in effect helping your enemy win in the short term.
The other option is to engage politically outside of just voting. Most people have been convinced by establishment politicians that your only influence is your vote. This is not true. Protests, activism, grassroots movements, local politics are all effective ways to steer your preferred party in your preferred direction. This does require substantially more effort.
Why are we so preoccupied with ensuring the party we hate most loses, rather than focusing on the party you want most winning.
I’d rather everyone vote closest to their actual morals and values, and give no consideration to who loses.
If we keep fighting over who’s the biggest loser, how can we possibly expect things to improve?
When the Republicans win, the Democrats hear “move right”. It’s as simple as that.
And also when the democrats win, if you look at the way policy has evolved during the clinton years, during the obama years, and also now during the biden years.
The Dems seek out the people who actually vote.
If the Left stays home every election, the Dems have no reason to listen to them.
Clearly they’ll just voter shame and we’ll end up exactly where we are. I’d argue the reason we are where we are is exactly that reason.
I think all the third party voter shaming is actually for the democrat population. Its a warning of how you will be treated if you defect. Churches and cults do stuff like this in some cases, also to preempt members leaving.
I was never his biggest fan, but New York Mayor Ed Koch did say something I liked.
“If you agree with me 51% then you should vote for me. If you agree with me 100% you should see a psychiatrist.”
I did:
“They have to do that stuff first to earn my vote! I don’t care if they never had the power to do so!”
-Morons
“They’ve had 4 years to do something!”
Ughh… Learn how it works people. We had 2 conservative “Democrat” (golly gee look how Manchild is not a Democrat anymore literally…) senators deny everything from 2020-2022, then we lost the house to Republicans who’s idea of bipartisanship is to give Democrats the finger all the time from 2022-2024… Sooo what exactly could we do?
Then there’s the extra special people who want to “balance” by voting D president and R representatives… Ffs… That shit died when Gingrich started his “my way or go fuck yourself” brand of politics…
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You are literally the outside foreign influences.
And who the fuck are you?
Discussing American politics online isn’t being a foreign influence. I’m not American, but sure as fuck their politics affects me.
I mean, where you sign up says something about you, right?
Yarr.
You’re not wrong.
Unfortunately whatever shit goes down in your country affects the rest of the world.
Nobody would’ve given a fuck about USA if it was as relevant as Romania or Denmark.
Lol I can understand the confusion, but I really am an American in America. I came over from the reddit exodus last year and lemmy.world couldn’t handle all the new people for a time so I swapped over to a smaller instance that happens to be from the Netherlands.
I hope you don’t mind me squatting here feddit.nl :P
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Where’s your proof? This is the dumbest shit posted here today.
Why you even speaking up? Where you from?
You came into a comment chain which didn’t involve you and offered no proof of your own. Stop being like you are.
If you didn’t believe me before what would it matter if I told you I’m from NY and specifically long island? I could tell you I hate the L.I.E with every fiber of my being, that housing prices for glorified shacks that look like they burned down twice are going for 300k, and that the ocean parkway is a decent way to get around shit traffic on sunrise highway. I don’t know how a random person on the Internet is supposed to prove that is true though.
You could also just check my comment history, I’ve mentioned where I’m from a number of times. It’s one of the reasons I don’t delete my history, so if anyone questions “who I am” they can just check it. Just be warned, there’s a bunch of stupid comments, exasperation, and self loathing there lol
Not that it matters, but at least I didn’t downvote you. I understand the skepticism
You not from NY, you think anything other a parking spot going for 300, like stop playing
I can’t help anymore than I already have. I’m not posting personal information to prove anything. I really don’t know why you’re so dead set on being convinced I’m not from the US.
If I was trying to influence people by being deceptive don’t you think I’d avoid having a foreign instance? I’d have like America.Patriot.Eagle or some nonsense lol
I’m from Suffolk county so…:
Edit: I had to come back to this because it just hit me, if you were able to tell that most prices really are wayyyyy higher than 300k are you from NY too? That would be absolutely wild out of all the people on here we’d end up having this discussion as “neighbors!” Small world and all that shit lol
Why are you like this
Bah, the only way to suss out a true New Yorker is to check their preferred Pizza joint.
My kitchen! Lol
My grandma taught me how to make a fried pizza years ago and now that’s all I want to make when I want pizza lol
We welcome all. You can get your standard issue clogs and bitterballen at check in ;)
Hell yeah! Thanks for the welcome!
Except I keep voting and they still don’t care what I think because I’m on the left.
Vote in the primaries.
The only reason I’m a registered Democrat is so I can vote in the primaries in my state. And I do so as often as possible.
Good! You’re pulling things to the left!
So politics means “when you do things right it will feel like you’ve done nothing at all?”
No, it just means there’s more people pulling things to the right. Next you gotta convince people to pull with you.
The absolute top tier play for Leftists now is to show up in DROVES this election, hand Kamala a landslide. And then put up a ton of candidates in the next primary. Show the DNC that you are a force which can win elections, and then put the fear of being primaried in them. That’s dragging things to the left.
Considering every election makes me feel more like an outsider in my own country I think it will be less frustrating just to feel like I lose every election.
Unless you have some tips on breaking Americans of their patriotism.
i’m just here for the yOuUuUuU sUpPoRt GeNoCiDe!!! chuds to get triggered and provide entertainment
inb4 “Genocide Joe” and “Blue MAGA” comments
What I don’t understand is what harm is being reduced by doing “harm reduction”? I get maybe one or two election cycles the candidate isn’t ideal but after decades of horrible candidates that increasingly become more right wing over time it seems that no real harm is being reduced. Working class people are are still starving under Biden and likely will under Kamala, simultaneously the Capitalist class continues to aquire obscene amounts of wealth. Meanwhile we’re all supposed to go along with the idea that Neoliberalism is the only option while so called “radical leftists” (social democrats and social liberals) are too extreme for government. This election cycle we’re offered a candidate that has promised to encourage fracking, likley will not offer any federal protections for women and other minorities, openly supports Israel, and is overall a spineless corrupt career politican that for some reason we’re all supposed to nod our heads to and say “yup shes the face of the American left”. If we keep doing “harm reduction” soon we will all be reduced to nothing.
It’s not about harm reduction, it’s a slow boil towards fascism. We’re all just frogs in a pot of slowly heating water, except frogs actually will jump out before they boil to death; humans aren’t that smart.
Every four years the centrists say “vote for us, because the Other Guy is worse!” And they’re not wrong, especially since 2016. But they’re also not even pretending to be on our side anymore. Everyone says the Republicans have taken the mask off and aren’t hiding their evil, but it is the Democrats running a candidate who is openly working with members of the party of greater fascism, it’s the Democratic candidate who is pro
fuckingfracking the earth, and it’s the Democrats (as well as the Repubs) who aren’t even bothering to lie to us about wanting to stop the genocide that our tax dollars are directly funding.However, I have to say that I’ll be voting for the party of lesser (or at least slower) fascism come November. Not because I agree with a single thing they’re doing (since their platform is still “We’re not as bad as the Other Guy”), but because they threw us exactly two bones in dropping Biden and giving the VP to one of the few Ds who actually looks progressive (where he can do the least damage, of course).
*assuming you live where your vote matters
Me voting or not voting for the Democrats here in California doesn’t effect the election one bit
I still did it because they ditched the shitty old guy who said he wasn’t going to run again, but I’m not pretending I’ve actually done anything in doing so
No. There are plenty of down ticket races even if your vote for the presidential candidate doesn’t matter, it might very well make the difference between a good School Board candidate in your school district or a right wing book banning bible pushing nut job
It might be the difference between a normal city council or a far-right Nazi take over of your city council.
Just. Fucking. Vote.
There are plenty of down ticket races
No shit Sherlock? Post says “if you want to avoid trump” so I’m commenting on that race
But thanks for the condescension, it’s always cute
kids are force fed the bible
Well that can’t be true
Republicans are strongly against feeding children after allBuy our new Trump Bible Mk.39! This new edition features pages made out of pork rinds so your constituents can taste the word of our lord!
