cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ml/post/21396125
Stephen Starr in Hamtramck, Michigan
Mon 14 Oct 2024 11.00 EDT
This group is the single greatest gift to the 2024 trump presidency and he doesn’t know it yet!
Harris? I agree, she’s torpedoing a very easy campaign.
At least trump will be a great ally to Palestinians!
Course not, the genocidal US Empire needs to be overthrown. Join an org like FRSO or PSL.
This is going to be such a leopard ate my face moment. Do they really think the Republicans are going to do anything? They’re just going to drop some bombs and call it a day. At least with the Democrats there’s a slight chance.
Single issue voters, or is this even a single issue because Trump and Harris don’t really have much different on this particular topic? People really have me scratching my head sometimes.
Do you consider war crimes, mass murderand sending in our troops to assist in a far right wing colonial war – all done with our tax dollars to be a “single issue” like… school vouchers or Amtrak funding? It seems a very dishonest or at best an inaccurate method to weigh issues against each other.
If this is a joke, it’s a very bad one. If it isn’t, good luck on pulling your head out of your ass.
There is no difference because Harris knows her good little gooses steppers will vote for her no matter what she does or who she kills.
I mean their single issue is Harris supports murdering their friends and family via her Israel proxy. If you’re going to have a single issue to decide your vote I can’t think of a better one.
Personally Harris lost my vote for two main reasons:
- her continued support of genocide. while its true israel has a right to defend itself, it doesn’t have a right to support of the US while doing so. we have laws on the books for this precise reason and they need to be enforced.
- her unwillingness to commit to supporting labor. won’t commit to khan, will likely happily break a striking union whenever she can as evidenced by the train union and wouldn’t have ‘changed a thing’ comment.
There are a bunch of other things I could overlook but not those two. I jokingly sent my friend a message yesterday.
God it amazes me to watch a candidate who is part of a historically low approval admin go ‘im not wrong its the voters who are wrong’. repeatedly.
my friends response? ‘I can’t tell which candidate you’re talking about’ which was precisely my point.
single issue voters
the single issue is the eradication of their families and friends
yeah man I wonder why they don’t support that
The single issue: genocide
Why are you sheepdogging for genociders? You have always had the option of saying nothing and educating yourself instead.
Just because you’re oversimplifying a complex issue doesn’t make you correct or your choice any better than the alternative.
Unless you’d like to explain how it does…
It is not a complex issue. There is a genocide and there are increasing calls to support those genociders electorally. Instead of supporting genociders, you should oppose them.
Liberals call “issues” complex in order to speak euphemistically about the horrible things they support. They do not actually have an understanding of the alleged complexity, it is just a lazy thought-terminating cliché. When you do understand something, you can discuss it directly. At the moment, you are apparently more afraid of using the word genocide than actually being complicut in it yourself. Is this the “complexity” you are referring to? Your personal discomfort? I suspect so.
Unless you’d like to explain how it does…
Being consistently against genocide is the first step towards actually fighting against it. I have set the bar very low. Can you clear it?
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This isn’t a 1,000 year Middle east conflict, it’s a modern-day Western settler-colonialist project. It’s an ~80 year ethnic cleansing project.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism_as_settler_colonialismI never claimed anything about Zionism.
This is a straw man argument.
Its not 1000 years old. Zionists lie about that to make it seem intractable. Arabs and Jews got along fine for the entire 800 year period of the Ottoman empire which ended in the early 1900s. Learn some history so you dont embarass yourself. its 80 years old, since the land theft, murder, and terrorism of the Nakba, done by Israelis.
A 1000 year Middle East conflict “isn’t a complex issue”?
Israel as a settler colonial entity is around 100 years old. Before that, Christians, Muslims, and Jews lived in the same area with very little sectarian violence for around 800 years.
Thank you for admitting that I’m correct, however, the rest is completely irrelevant. We’re not talking about those 800 years.
You’d say “its nuanced” about colonizers killing indigenous tribes and the indigenous tribes fighting back.
Dude, Palestinians lived largely in peace with Jews in what was called Palestine until WW2. This is not an ancient conflict unless you believe antisemitic propaganda. The state of Israel is compensation for the Holocaust, paid for with land from the Palestinians.
The state of Israel is compensation for the Holocaust,
The state of Israel was secured through bribery and a will to try to appease an extremist terrorist group who the UN hoped would settle the eff down if they were given the land they had been killing people trying to steal. They didnt end up appeased, and the world didnt owe them land for the holocaust anyway. They should take that up with Germany and bill them for it, not the rest of us.
Well no there were Zionist terrorists killing people in that area before World War II. We tend to gloss that over in history though for some reason, maybe it’s because so many people that were targeting were the British and everyone was just kind of okay with it.
A 1000 year Middle East conflict “isn’t a complex issue”?
I already stated what is not complex. It is that there is an ongoing genocide and that you and others are sheepdogging for the perpetrators. I stated it directly and your response continues this pattern of avoiding even mentioning the term genocide even though it is the topic of this thread and the points I have made.
Re: “1000 year middle east conflict”, this is itself an ahistorical, chauvinist absurdity that papers over the real modern history of colonialism and Zionism and usually has a few dashes of Islamophobia thrown in as well, though yo be honest I would not be surprised if the people sheepdogging for genociders were not particularly familiar with the details of that reference.
More realistically, the “it’s complex” line serves as a way to avoid thinking about or interrogating the topic, it is a way for the ignorant to feel secure despite knowledgeable troublemakers telling them specific but inconvenient things. Like, say, that you should oppose genocide.
Either you’re obviously too ignorant to hold intelligent opinions on this matter, or you’re clearly arguing in bad faith by stating obvious falsehoods.
At the moment I’m trying to navigate middle schooler level chauvinist talking points and asking you to address what I say rather than what you make up. Oh, and to remind you of my main and original point, the one you are afraid to even mention!
Why should anyone take you seriously?
This is Lemmy, there is a limit to which anyone should take anonymous forum comments seriously.
But you should take genocide seriously. If you are not knee-jerk advocating against it, and are instead trying to support its perpetrators, you had better have the very best knowledge and justifications, better than I can even imagine, to make a case for why you support those carrying out the greatest crime.
Everyone should take genocide seriously and that is what people should listen to in my messages. They should also recognize that the responses to my advocacy require dishonest behaviors.
Naturally, as the election approaches, liberals will increasingly panic and try to shut down anything that disagrees with their (pro-genocidal) party line. But I have and will continue to peel those with empathy and honesty off of that track.
Cherry picking a single detail out of a complex situation doesn’t suddenly make it a simple situation. That is logically fallacious. As is the rest of your argument, which is based on that logical fallacy.
And blaming me using disinformation, because I pointed out the fact that your argument is both fallacious and nonsensical, does not make you right either.
Cherry picking a single detail out of a complex situation doesn’t suddenly make it a simple situation.
Is it a “detail” that fails to include very important context (none of which you can seemingly specify) or is it genocide, something with so much weight that you are afraid to even mention it despite my repeated reminders that it is the topic here?
One of the challenges of evasive and bad faith behavior is that the little quips and pretenses can easily become inconsistent.
Anyways, the actual topic is pretty straightforward. There is a genocide. You should not support those perpetrating it and should instead work against them. So far, you have offered no rebuttal to this outside of straw men and vagaries and posturing.
That is logically fallacious. As is the rest of your argument, which is based on that logical fallacy.
Parrots can repeat many phrases they hear, but they don’t understand their meaning.
Logical fallacies are a set of ways a person can make errors in thinking. The whole point of them is that some nerds thought they were common or important enough to deserve a name. Reflexively accusing me of logical fallacies without naming any, right after I explained how you were using one? Obviously schoolyard “I’m rubber you’re gkue” pantomiming. No understanding, no applicability, just defensive posturing.
And blaming me using disinformation
What disinformation? What did I blame you for?
because I pointed out the fact that your argument is both fallacious and nonsensical, does not make you right either.
Can you tell me when I said or implied, “when I use disinformation against you it means I’m right”? I think you are very confused in both thought and language at this point. You’re relying on quips and phrases that simply do not apply.
No, it’s been a little over a 100 years of Settler Colonialist Zionism. Zionism has not existed for 1000 years.
‘Palestine: A Four Thousand Year History’ by Nur Masalha gives a detailed account of it’s history before British Occupation and ‘A History of Modern Palestine’ by Ilan Pappe gives a detailed account of it’s history since the British Occupation.
Origins of Zionism
Zionism is a settler colonialism project that was able to really start with the support of British Imperialism. Zionism as a political movement started with Theodore Herzl in the 1880s as a ‘modern’ way to ‘solve’ the ‘Jewish Question’ of Europe.
Since at least the 1860’s, Europe was increasingly antisemitic and hostile to Jewish people. Zionism was explicitly a Setter Colonialist movement and the native Palestinians were not considered People but Savages by the Europeans. While Zionist Colonization began before it, the Balfor Declaration is when Britain gave it’s backing of the movement in order to ‘solve’ the ‘Jewish Question’ while also creating a Colony in the newly conquered Middle East after WWI in order to exhibit military force in the region and extract natural resources.
That’s when Zionist immigration started to pick up, out of necessity for most as Europe became more hostile and antisemitic. That continued into and during WWII, European countries and even the US refused to expand immigration quotas for Jewish people seeking asylum. The idea that the creation of Israel is a reparation for Jewish people is an after-the-fact justification. While most Jewish immigrants had no choice and just wanted a place to live in peace, it was the Zionist Leadership that developed and implemented the forced transfer, ethnic cleansing, of the native population, Palestinians. Without any Occupation, Apartheid, and ethnic cleansing, there would not be any Palestinian resistance to it.
Herzl himself explicitly considered Zionism a Settler Colonialist project, Setter Colonialism is always violent. The difficulty in creating a democratic Jewish state in an area inhabited by people who are not Jewish, is that enough Palestinian people need to be ‘Transferred’ to have a demographic majority that is Jewish. Ben-Gurion explicitly rejected Secular Bi-national state solutions in favor of partition.
Quote
Zionism’s aims in Palestine, its deeply-held conviction that the Land of Israel belonged exclusively to the Jewish people as a whole, and the idea of Palestine’s “civilizational barrenness" or “emptiness” against the background of European imperialist ideologies all converged in the logical conclusion that the native population should make way for thenewcomers.
The idea that the Palestinian Arabs must find a place for themselves elsewhere was articulated early on. Indeed, the founder of the movement, Theodor Herzl, provided an early reference to transfer even before he formally outlined his theory of Zionist rebirth in his Judenstat.
An 1895 entry in his diary provides in embryonic form many of the elements that were to be demonstrated repeatedly in the Zionist quest for solutions to the “Arab problem ”-the idea of dealing with state governments over the heads of the indigenous population, Jewish acquisition of property that would be inalienable, “Hebrew Land" and “Hebrew Labor,” and the removal of the native population.
Visualizing the Ethnic Cleansing
Peace Process and Solution
Both Hamas and Fatah have agreed to a Two-State solution based on the 1967 borders for decades. Oslo and Camp David were used by Israel to continue settlements in the West Bank and maintain an Apartheid, while preventing any actual Two-State solution
How Avi Shlaim moved from two-state solution to one-state solution
‘One state is a game changer’: A conversation with Ilan Pappe
Historian Works on the History
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Palestine: A Four Thousand Year History - Nur Masalha
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The Concept of Transfer 1882-1948 - Nur Masalha
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A History of Modern Palestine - Ilan Pappe
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The Hundred Years’ War on Palestine - Rashid Khalidi
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The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine - Ilan Pappe
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The 1967 Arab-Israeli War: Origins and Consequences - Avi Shlaim
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The Biggest Prison on Earth: A History of the Occupied Territories - Ilan Pappe
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The Gaza Strip: The Political Economy of De-development - Sara Roy
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10 Myths About Israel - Ilan Pappe (summery)
No, it’s been a little over a 100 years of Settler Colonialist Zionism. Zionism has not existed for 1000 years.
I never claimed Zionism existed for 1000 years. That’s a strawman argument, and you wasted an awful lot of time typing all that out.
Do you often find that using logical fallacies and disinformation and mischaracterizing what people said to be an effective debate tactic?
A 1000 year Middle East conflict “isn’t a complex issue”?
This is what you said in the context of the current conflict, which is Israel engaging in Genocide of Palestinians. That is a result of Zionism, which is fundamentally a Settler Colonialist Ideology that has only been around for a little over a hundred years, not a thousand.
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Calling it a thousand year conflict is Zionist propaganda. Plain and simple.
Considering that I never said that the Zionist were right, I certainly don’t see how that’s anything but something you just made up to feel better about your lack of position In this argument.
Yeah sure you’re not saying you agree with them, you’re just repeating their racist propaganda that’s all. Totally different.
I am not a single issue voter and I don’t think that way. There are many important issues on the line and I will vote for the candidate that addresses the most. I am not saying that genocide is unimportant, just that I can’t impact it with my selection.
What is more important than supporting and normalizing genocide?
It’s like you’re mentally incapable of reading a comment and responding to the words in it.
I responded directly to what they said re: there being multiple issues they want to weigh. That was their response up me challenging complicity in genocide and asking why the person I was responding to was sheepdogging for genociders. They are trying yo be euphemistic and retreat to the thought-terminsting clichés that reinforce complicity in genocide, which also means avoiding even using the word. So I recontextualized their attempt to decontextualize while still directly addressing it.
Please feel free to tell me which specific parts you would like to see addressed or responded to. I certainly already replied to the first sentence, which was the main point of deflection.
So, you admit to intentionally mischaracterizing what they said and then creating a straw man argument based on that, just so you could win an online argument.
Not that you haven’t been doing that this whole time, but it’s nice for you to admit it.
So, you admit to intentionally mischaracterizing what they said
No? Please do your best to engage with what I say rather than making things up.
Preventing someone from gaining power who will continue genocide, find new targets for genocide, and turn the country into a dictatorship? Choosing the lesser of two evils is the way it works. If you want the greater of two evils then it’s your choice to not participate.
Preventing someone from gaining power who will continue genocide
There could not be a candidate this describes more than Harris. You know, from the Biden-Harris administration behind the genocide happening right now. The one supplying bombs to burn refugee children alive. Have you heard their screams?
I am told Democratic voters are empathetic and strategic. But all I see is racist normalization of genocide and toeing the party line.
find new targets for genocide
That’s a Dem specialty! They have a knack for stoking and supporting genocides. Heck, Obama got one started in Yemen. Even NGOs were saying a vhikd was killed every minute for years by this. Why do you think they are so resilient and steadfast against this genocide and Western attempts to free up Zionist shipping lanes? Did you even know what was done to Yemen?
and turn the country into a dictatorship?
Given that the current “system” has you shilling for genocide you should already question whether you live in a democracy.
Though all of this lesser evilism is also premised on nobody remembering that Trump was already president for 4 years and it was basically the same shot as under Biden. In fact, Biden came in from the right, normalizing the pandemic and slashing benefits for the public, then did the usual, “I’m just a widdle president I can’t do nothin’” act when the SC overturned Roe v. Wade. Ah, but now that there is a genocide to support, unlimited billions for Israel, don’t worry he can bypass Congress. Do you see how the system functions? Do you feel enfranchised? How much less enfranchised were you under Trump?
They’re on the same team. Why do you think Harris’ team is celebrate endorsements from Republican war criminals? A human that cared would spit in their faces and announce charges. You are not provided with such an option for your mainstream party “choices”. They laugh at their committed voters, I’ve seen it in person.
Choosing the lesser of two evils is the way it works. If you want the greater of two evils then it’s your choice to not participate.
No, that’s the way you are told it works by your masters so that you work for them instead of against them. You’ll notice that I am not voting for any genociders. Did I break reality!? Or just deviate from a focus group-tested party talking point?
well I’m gonna say… if enabling genocide doesn’t make you a single issue voter I suspect you’re morally deficient of an individual. Frankly while genocide is enough Harris has a number of issues you’re free to overlook by claiming people are ‘single issue’ just because a thread is covering a particular topic.
- doesn’t support labor. (won’t commit to keeping khan, will break a strike whenever convenient)
- won’t be effective at reducing inflation/cost of living.
- won’t be effective at humane immigration.
- won’t be effective at health care reform. both at a cost and medicinally via weed/psychedelics legalization.
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Oh look, anti-Arab racism from liberals already
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I think calling Arab-Americans stupid for refusing to vote for genocide is racist. Harris is handing Trump a victory because she can’t cease US support for Israel.
I don’t think anyone is calling anyone stupid for calling for an end to the genocide. But what’s stupid is when people think that Trump will somehow stop the genocide.
Oh and btw… I was banned from world news. LOL.
Virtually no one thinks Trump will stop the genocide. You’re just strawmaning.
Then why not vote for the other people, who will possibly make it a slightly less bad genocide? What’s wrong with less bad?
You’d have to ask them. If your family or the families of people in your community were being slaughtered by the incumbent administration, you might discover you have a red line after all. Fortunately for you, you’ll probably never really know.
But what’s stupid is when people think that Trump will somehow stop the genocide.
No one thinks this
Meaning these people are consciously assisting continuing what they believe is a genocide abroad AND making things worse here too?
Or do they not understand FPTP voting?
As so many Harris-voting lemmitors have instructed me, stopping the genocide is not on the effective ballot as-presented, so no, they are not assisting continuing what is absolutely a genocide. The goal is that they either pressure Harris to not be a ghoul, because they presume she cares about winning more than aiding genocide (this is most likely false) or, if Harris sticks to her guns and either loses or wins by such slim margins that it makes the Dem winning next election without stopping Israel much more hazardous, they (the Muslim/Arab voters) can extract concessions, because even electoral politics doesn’t end with one election cycle, and some strategies aimed at maximizing some long term result can introduce a risk or even a guarantee of short-term costs.
I don’t believe, like I think those voters do, that Dems would trade Israel slaughtering with impunity even for a guaranteed victory, but I think them demonstrating that unwillingness has its own value, since the DNC needs to be brought down. I don’t expect you to agree to this and am not terribly interested in persuading you, I’m just offering an explanation.
There was a commenter calling Arab-American voters stupid for abandoning Harris.
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Yeah… I’ve heard better Lowkeys.
Well that is stupid. People can be stupid from all corners of the globe.
The knee jerk response from lefties is that any insult or criticism of people who are members of a minority is racist, regardless of if it has anything to do with race (or race adjacent).
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When you are faced with high numbers of marginalized people refusing to vote for candidates contributing to the genocide of friends, relatives, and people of a similar heritage, and your response is that they are “stupid,” rather than trying to understand why they are acting in that manner, you assert yourself as more “enlightened,” and the marginalized people as uniquely stupid. That is why it is racist.
It’s like you didn’t even read what I wrote.
It’s NOT uniquely stupid. Dummies vote against their interests all the time (see comment about white Christians).
And it doesn’t take any special enlightenment to acknowledge how FPTP voting works. In fact, it’s so simple, you’d have to be pretty stupid to be unaware.
But keep ruining that word to the point of meaninglessness.
I read every word of what you wrote.
Arab-Americans are refusing to vote for genocide at much, much higher rates than other ethnicities. My answer is what they have been saying themselves: they can’t vote for continued genocide of their friends, family, and people of a similar background. Your answer is that it’s because Arab-Americans are uniquely stupid among ethnicities in America, which is racist.
He hopes that Trump, on the other hand, uses his business acumen to bring down the cost of the products he sells in his store, many of which are imported from overseas. “Trump is not perfect, but we have no choice,” he says.
Hashim’s other major concern is Gaza, where more than 42,000 people have been killed by Israeli attacks. “The No 1 reason [to not vote for Harris] is that she is supporting Israel 100%,” he said.
I don’t understand how someone this stupid is able to run a successful business. The high price of goods now is completely due to republican policies that have taken the brakes off of corporate price gouging and Trump has stated that not only is he 100% supportive of Israel but he will happily supercharge their genocide of the Palestinians in Gaza.
She had so many chances to make this election easier. Could have had a Palestinian talk during the DNC, and that would have likely changed this story.
Yeah, earlier in her campaign, I was optimistic that she was just trying not to undermine Biden’s foreign policy, and that she would eventually take an at least slightly more critical position on Israel. So far, though, she’s seems entirely committed to Israel’s escalating violence, and she won’t even make the smallest gesture towards the Palestinian community. I didn’t expect her to denounce Israel, but staying lock-step with Biden on this is looking like political suicide.
You’d have to be an idiot to make another countries conflict an election issue, when neither candidate supports your side. The fact that neither candidate is pro Palestine, it’s a moot point in terms of the election
Is this a joke? This genocide is as much our “conflict” as it is Israel’s, given that Israel wouldn’t be able to do what it’s doing without massive US financial, materiel, and political support. It’s absolutely an election issue. You can say it’s not ’till the cows come home, but uncommitted is as real as death & taxes.
You’d have to be an idiot to make another countries conflict an election issue
apply this to Ukraine :)
Sure. Also to every terrorist nation, you murderous fucks supply. Maybe make amends or even so much a apologize for the atrocities and genocides committed by your country before you moralize to the world
Now I’ve lost track of who, or what country, we’re even talking about.
they think im Russian
Biden and Harris went to the right of the right wingers on immigration to defang the repubs, and they threw the election on their own to defang russian election interference agents. Checkmate Russia, you lose again.
Thats not really a problem. The people you are talking to are only talking to themselves in a mirror anyway.
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Guess I’m an idiot then. 🤷 I think I can live with that label. its unfortunate harris couldn’t find her moral spine when it mattered but here we are.
So, a conflict where USA supply weapons and all other manners of support used for open genocide (btw illegally, US law declare US need to stop in such case, but Blinken and co blocked it) and is even sending US soldiers to serve as a missile bait, isn’t an issue for US voters according to you?
Nice democracy you think they should have there.
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I feel like the lesser of two evils argument fails at the point of literal genocide and war crimes including intentional strikes on aid workers explicitly approved by the Biden regime. I’m sure Trump won’t be better, but it’s hard to see how he can be worse. They’re burning hospital patients alive in their beds. Asking a Muslim to support this genocidal DNC while they are being genocided is honestly the perfect encapsulation of the “it’s your fault you don’t want to vote for our shitty do nothing but evil party” logic that has destroyed the democratic brand and empowered a GOP in chaos, who would be losing to a more competently managed party right now.
Trump stated earlier this year that if re-elected, he would ask Israel to make the Gaza issue “go away” in under a week. It’s one thing to be supplying the weapons, but quite another to have the most powerful country give their approval to do whatever it takes to end the conflict to Israel’s benefit. There was a Palestinian newspaper article I saw a couple months ago that gave the opinion that under Harris they would get bombed, but under Trump they would cease to exist. Of course when I linked that in a similar discussion I was accused a picking my sources, because hey what does a Palestinian newspaper know about Palestine?
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Agreed that we don’t know unless he’s given the chance to try something, but it’s not exactly something I’d like to “fuck around and find out”. There have been a lot of reports from people who were on his team during his last term that are talking about how he was talked down from extreme actions, and this time his people already know what they’re getting in to and are ok with it. I can only hope Harris can be better than Biden, but we do know Trump was willing to let his own nation (California) burn just because they didn’t all vote for him.
Only you can decide for yourself what creates enough urgency for you to support a pro-genocide political party. For me there’s nothing. I can’t control the moral or amoral actions of others but I can control my own. I will not be a party to genocide. Period.
Voting third-party could lead to Trump winning. He has already stated he will cut all support to Ukraine, which also leads to genocide, not to mention what he is threatening to do to everyone of color here at home. Face it, no matter how you vote, you’re going to be a party to genocide. The only available option is to vote in favor of the least amount of damage being threatened by all parties. Yes, even Jill Stein is a problem here because her stated purpose is to spoil the Democrat vote (which leads me to distrust her “concerns” over Gaza even if she does have a history of voting against Israel).
Besides which, if you’re a US citizen then you’ve been a party to genocide your entire life, between our direct interference in the elections of other countries, to straight-up installing leaders of our choice, to simply withholding aid to civilians because our government didn’t want to step on any toes. You’re living the good life because our nation kills people for profit, so don’t pretend like you’re not already a party to it.
Well, depending on my tax bracket, which I’m not revealing to you, I may spend a LOT of money on Israel and not benefiting as a party of it – at the height of the British Empire, the average British household wealth wasn’t much more than India. The left heel can grind one population while the right heel grinds another and all the profits go up and to neither heel, thus global worker solidarity. I also don’t care if Trump wins. Biden has murdered hundreds of thousands and started a process that will kill millions if not lead to WWIII… With recent events the formerly magic words “antisemitism” and “Trump bad” have lost all power
Trump says a lot of stuff. It’s usually awful. But he’s not much of a do-er
This sure does read a lot like MAGAts saying “he doesn’t mean it like that” when he has repeatedly demonstrated he means the thing he said
I’m sure he means it, I also know he’s kind of a mess and there being no philosophical underpinning to his movement beyond him won’t lend itself to an effective administration when he’s out to lunch even more than last time.
but quite another to have the most powerful country give their approval to do whatever it takes to end the conflict to Israel’s benefit.
Israel already has approval! The arguments on the phone are kabuki theater
You wanna know how he’ll be worse. You’re going to prison for this post. And you’ll ‘never have to vote again’ for any choice ever. He’s straight up fucking said it. This level of stupidity is un-fucking-fathomable.
Okay, support a genocide out of fear. I won’t do that. If I go to jail for that, it is what it is. Only YOU can debase yourself by becoming evil out of fear.
Some people can’t/refuse to comprehend that this was the Democrats race to lose. The same was true in 2016, and just like then, they will blame anyone but their own party. They’ll do anything but look in the mirror.
How the Hillary Clinton campaign deliberately “elevated” Donald Trump with its “pied piper” strategy
Yes, I love how with no other thing do these people understand that THEY, not Jill Stein or Bernie Sander or Russia are why they lose. A minimally functional DNC would be CLEANING Trump’s CLOCK right now, his coalition’s in chaos, his policy proposals are unpopular, the DNC has a lack of economy issue polling problem I haven’t seen in FOREVER, which speaks to people thinking “You’re the FDR party, and the party who stopped the Nazi genocide, can’t you save us now?” And the answer is MORE CHENEY!!! And MORE GENOCIDE!!!
The New Deal was an attempt to save capitalism from the threat of socialist revolution. The Great Depression left the working class in grave financial straits, and socialism was a foreign & domestic threat. This was before the socialists were purged from labor unions, before the Cold War and the House Committee on Un-American Activities. The Democratic Party didn’t make concessions to the working class out of the kindness of its heart.
Over decades, those temporary concessions have eroded along with any threats to the capital order: the collapse of the Soviet Union and the rise the US’s neocolonial hegemony; the end of history. The Democratic party is to the right of Reagan now, and some in the Republican party are itching to remove even the trappings of democracy.
Yup, social democracy and unions were concessions capitalism stopped making once there was no competing ideology after the collapse of communism (current Chinese “Communism” isn’t even Fascism as that still had SOME social benefits). I do still think our best hope is do what we did with FDR which is “I don’t care about your shitty party, give us material long term policy concessions, and then we can talk”
(current Chinese “Communism” isn’t even Fascism as that still had SOME social benefits)
Not to imply that China is a utopia—as none can exist—but most of our understanding of it comes filtered through Cold War II propaganda, which, in the rear-view mirror, will look about as ham-fisted as the first Cold War’s propaganda does now.
Most Chinese polled actually describe their country as democratic, because they view the state as generally responsive to their needs, and for many of them that matters more than token votes. I would not describe my government as democratic, as I live in a one party rule state where the state and national party dictates the primary winners when they deign to allow them and my vote doesn’t count, and at no level is the government I pay taxes to responsive to my needs.
You love genocide so much you hope another one happens here.
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They’re the target of racist assholes now and their families are being murdered now. What you hope for is that it gets worse so that they are punished for not being obedient.
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Their families are being butchered, infantilizing them as being too stupid to know what’s good for them is actually kinda racist.
I think you just want them to be punished for not bending the knee. It’s a revenge fantasy.
The important thing here is that I don’t have to be civil to these people. We should shame them at every chance and equate them to literal MAGA. Only then will we win the election, which is what this is about and is not some distraction.
Average democratic party outreach strategies. This would be funny if it wasn’t covering for a literal genocide.
I wonder if some of these posters are working for some Hasbara marketing agency. When you cant tell the difference between Dem supporters and far right Hasbara propogandists, things have gone very very very wrong.
I’m sure that shaming them will make them change their minds and will not backfire in any way whatsoever.
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How would you feel if the US was sending weapons to a country that was killing your friends and family? What would you do?
Vote to hurt more people domestically and continue killing my friends and family… wait…
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narrator: and then, under harris, it continued to get worse.
biden admin is about to cause an regional outbreak of war. causing our friends and family to be pulled into it. all because he wouldn’t redirect a few boats to ukraine. I have 0 interest in trump but harris needs to pull her head out of her ass and commit to enforcing the leahy law w/ israel.
legit question, if arabs love Palestine so fucking much, why don’t they open up their countries’ lands for the creation of a Palestinian state?
Good bye frying-pan, hello fire.
Oh boy, that’ll teach 'em…you know, the party where they absolutely listened to the people who didn’t want Hillary just because “it was her turn”.
yup…this’ll fix it!
If anything handing over the presidency to Trump would be incentive for Democrats to move further to the genocidal right.
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Good!
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This is the kind of meme that talks past you, degrades you, and then will complain when not responded to.
The meme is not abusive but it does describe a cruel and illogical behavior rife in this thread.
A behavior in support of genocide, no less.
Interesting, this was exactly my mindset on voting at age 10 or so. Guess some people never gets out of that phase?
stop paying your taxes too, that shit is funding the genocide
My man… This the FO stage and TAXMAN will deliver FA stage.
Tax evasion is a crime to served for the elites and their regime whores.
Wouldnt recommend this to anyone unless you are in the club
Way ahead of you.
Right behind you (͠≖ ͜ʖ͠≖)
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