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Since telling them that Bork’s video rentals could be made public got them the pass the VPPA, maybe telling them their TVs know all the freaky porn they watch will get them to pass a comprehensive digital privacy bill.
Though I’d have to use photosynthesis if I wanted to hold my breath.
So which brand is the better of em? I just received my pi so I’ll set up a pi hole but I need a tv. I looked at conference room monitors and they’re too expensive, even on eBay. I could just not connect it to the net, yes, but I can tell ya right now that the other people in the house will definitely connect it to the net and not have patience for using the pc, etc
So which brand is the better of em?
I haven’t found one that isn’t shit, sadly.
That said, I installed Android TV on a Raspberry Pi 4, connected that to a TV via HDMI, and have all the features (and way more) of a Smart TV or Roku, without the OS level ads or spying.
I’d recommend getting a Hisense Android (or Google) TV since they let you set it up without creating an account, then use “adb uninstall --user 0 …” to completely debloat it (including removing Google apps). Then you can use your router to block internet access to the TV’s MAC address, along with setting the TV’s DNS server to 0.0.0.0, which will redirect all DNS traffic to a black hole, effectively blocking internet access.
Also replace the launcher with LeanbackOnFire and the keyboard with LeanKey Keyboard while you’re at it. Note that replacing the launcher will block the Input button on the remote from working, but LeanbackOnFire will allow you to access the inputs from the homescreen. You can also use Button Mapper to remap whichever remote button you want to whichever HDMI input you want using an Android broadcast signal, but that’s a bit more advanced and requires reading adb logcat logs to figure out how to switch inputs using the proper command.
If you’re feeling super adventurous, you can dump the boot.img using UART in the Uboot bootloader and root the device after unlocking the bootloader. Note that you will need to enable UART in the service menu before unlocking the bootloader since unlocking the bootloader will make integrity checks fail (including certain DRM), which will also make the service menu inaccessible.
Additional note: disabling Google apps will make the stock launcher stop working, so you will need to install a replacement launcher before debloating.
So this is why my TV walked into the bathroom while I was dropping a deuce. 🤔
If just using a Smart TV for a computer monitor, what is the easiest way to keep it from sending your information? Just keeping it away from WiFi? Would it be able to connect via your HDMI?
Never connect to wifi. Don’t agree to the ToS. It can’t connect to your network via hdmi.
We have a PiHole running and the TV makes constant attempts to connect to home-base.
The other person said to never connect to wifi, but I’d say either put it on an isolated wifi (guest network) and lock it down to LAN-only access in your router, if at all possible.
The reason being that these devices are aggressive about getting a wifi signal, and even if they can’t connect to yours, they’ll apparently search for unprotected wifi networks and connect to those to send data and phone home. Locking it down to LAN only prevents this, and isolating to a guest network means no information about other devices on your network.
It’s utterly insane we have to do this stuff. If you’re willing to spend more, there are commercial signage displays you can buy that are essentially dumb TVs, and that is pretty much the only way to get a dumb TV today (and obviously, don’t expect smart features from it).
pi-hole ftw. the vast majority of my pi-hole’s DNS drops are from various Roku and Roku-like devices. Also, put all your IoT stuff onto a guest network, or if your gear supports it, on its own VLAN.
So lucky my smart thermostat and door/window sensor are connected via DECT-ULE to my router/modem combo (for those interested AVM Fritzbox) and I can poll those via home assistant.
And I don’t think they could phone home (and I hope AVM doesnt do bs).See, I just don’t connect it to the network. It complained when I set it up but now it just works as a screen.
I’ve got a raspberry pi steaming my desktop to it with gamestream/sunshine/moonlight, and it’s now as smart as my computer. It can even stream from different computers no matter where they are in the house, watch anything with stremio, and play games from them too. It’s way better than using the youtube or netflix button on the TV, most of the services it offers I don’t use anyway.
But actually pihole does sound like a good idea and maybe I should get that set up one of these days.
So with all the recent drama I learned that some TVs look for other open networks or other same brand TVs in range, and if found will join those networks and still share data.
So not connecting it isn’t enough in all cases.
A pihole wouldn’t solve this either if it was smart enough to know it’s blocked and look elsewhere.
I’d be interested to see more information on that. I don’t doubt companies would do that, but some good information on when it happens and how to prevent it would be useful.
So I did some looking, and as far as I can tell, there’s no definitive proof of someone testing this and reporting on it. It might just be all rumors and speculation.
Thanks, I hope they don’t do it. I would expect the security community to be able to find something like this, since it’s not hard to hook up some devices and do packet sniffing to detect if they’re talking to each other.
This would be an excellent use case for LTT’s faraday cage room for instance.
can’t you set a password so it can’t join willy nilly?
That would only work until your neighbor leaves their guest WiFi open.
Gotcha, find its card and rip it out.
This is the way.
In the not so distant future, people will begin turning their houses into faraday cages to ensure nothing can access the outside unless given proper permission.
You could set up a dummy LAN with no internet access for the tv. Unless it actually has more than one network card, it would need to be able to have the ability to virtualize network interfaces to connect elsewhere, and I really doubt these TVs are that smart.
Ah, gotcha. That would seem like overkill if that’s what would be needed.
I need to replace my router as it’s coming to end of life. I want one with vlan so I can put all my iot on a separate lan. Any recommendations?
For consumer grade gear, Ubiquiti is probably the best bet. Unless you want to get into the commercial side of things, but that’s prohibitively expensive for the average person.
Personally I run a GL.iNet system. I like it being completely open source, and the Flint 2 is a workhorse of a router. But as far as ease of use and config, Ubiquiti is certainly more straightforward.
This might be my ignorance, but the Ubiquiti stuff I’m finding seems to be all commercial. I ended up getting a good price on the Flint 2 and it should be here next Friday. I’m hoping to chunk out some time setting it up on the 20th
I have the Ubiquiti Edgerouter X. I got it mostly because at the time it was on sale 😂 but it seems to have decent support. Note that you will have to get a wireless AP as the Edgerouter is a pure router without WiFi function. Lots of people also like Mikrotik products.
I’ll check out mikrotik - thanks!
I don’t really understand the rest of what you said haha
Mikrotik are really aimed at advanced users, ubiquiti brand themselves as prosumer products. I found the Ubiquiti interface a complete mess - but it could just be me.
If it can run OpenWRT I’d suggest taking that path (if you like to tinker / the device supports it). My Google WiFi hubs are still humming away after all these years - now with way more features and a usable interface!
I recently picked up a GL-iNet Flint 2 because it’s a powerhouse and one of the easiest routers to flash Open-WRT onto. If you don’t want to mess with firnware flashing, it comes stock with their fork of Open-WRT. So, either way, you have a ton of control over your router, including setting up VLANs and running AdGuard.
Thank you for the reply - you’ve offered a great opportunity to ask another question 😂
I was looking at adguard. Is this something worth the subscription? I was looking at it because it seems to handle a lot of ads, including those on mobile games and stuff. But in my cursory glance, people are saying it’s not safe…
I’ll look at the GL-iNet because a) I want a powerhouse and b) I want nothing to do with flashing firmware haha
AdGuard as a service is alright, but it’s essentially just a pihole that you don’t have any control over. It does DNS level blocking, which means the ads get blocked before they even load on your network.
The issue is that since you’re routing all of your DNS traffic through AdGuard, you’re directly telling AdGuard which sites you are using. So there are concerns that you are just shifting the data collection from the ad companies to AdGuard instead, but AdGuard has the ability to be way more invasive in how the collect data.
Just set up dual piholes (one for your primary DNS, and one for your secondary DNS) instead. You get the exact same end result, without any of the data collection worry.
Thank you for your detailed responses. Has adguard any track record of collecting data? Is there a way to know?
I went ubiquity with my entire network. Can recommend
I’ll check it out - thanks!
Me too.
Of course they are without any data privacy laws companies are going to collect and then sell as much of your personal data that they can get away with.
I bought a commercial digital signage TV. No Roku/Chromecast/whatever, but the damn thing STILL has Ethernet and Wi-Fi and nagged me about setting it up on the internet. I’m only buying computer monitors from here on out.
Even monitors are beginning to become “smart” now…
If only our fucking government would do something about this and actually regulate these evil bastards.
but then the market would be ever so slightly less free. the horror!
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But their
constituentscorporate donors would not profit as much. Won’t someone think about my profits? 🙃First you’d need to ban money from politics and change the voting system to better represent the people living there instead of wealthy elites, but that would just be the start.
Whenever wealthy elites have even a tiny bit of power (as they do in any capitalist system, including social democracies like what the Nordic countries have), they will seize as much control as possible. We saw this happen many times.
Nico Semsrott (Kabarettist and member of the EU parliament. Yes, both) proposed in jest sponsoring placement on the jackets of the political members that got donations by companies.
The jackets should then look like the race overalls from Formula 1 or (not US) football players.And I am fully supporting this.
Edit:
Like this:
What do I do? I don’t live in the US, by the way.
The situation is really bad for consumers. Even with a Pi-Hole and a dumb TV and something like a Fire TV stick (they tend to send lots of telemetry too and apps like Toggo will nag you to oblivion to consent to data mining - if an app asks at all that is).
I’m slowly building up a Jellyfin library and yeah I jumped the hoops to find a non-smart TV. Wrote about it at https://beko.famkos.net/2022/11/27/on-non-smart-tvs/ and settled with a https://www.homex.eu/u55nt1000.html that ticked all my boxes:
☑
cheapaffordable ☑ 4k (UHD) ☑dumbnon-Smart ☑ HDMI ☑ 55″No idea about it’s tuner though[1] alas it’s not really any longer available in any market space today and I hope it will not die on us any time soon or the quest to find a new one starts again 🤓
[1] We’ve a decent external receiver that does all the work and HDMI juggling but even that thing is on the WiFi for software updates and in-house streaming but from what I can tell it behaves at least, which is probably just because it’s old by now.
While they are at it take a look at car manufacturers too.
my TV incurred my wrath by having the gall to show me a banner ad while I was in the middle of a game.
so I promptly cut its balls off. (disabled the internet entirely). now it is a dumb TV. and it behaves like a TV. and not an ad machine.
But what device do you use to stream? That’s the dilemma I’m in, streaming sticks and devices are all so spammy.
I just run an old PC plugged in to my TV. It’s been running Windows, but I’m strongly considering switching it to linux now that it seems HDR on linux is getting stable. I might even use SteamOS directly since it’s got a nice interface for controller use.
Same here, still on Windows 10 though it’s desperately trying to reinstall it’s crapware removed from the image with NTLite.
Will be switching to some flavour of Linux at some point (we also use this PC for some Steam games), so I’ll check SteamOS out!
Google “Rii i6”
You’ll thank me later.
Looks like a nice little device. I’ve already got a similar Logitech keyboard that’s a bit bigger and is missing the IR remote, but I’m still able to turn on my TV via an HDMI CEC command.
Ah nice. We were using a mouse/on screen kb for a minute before i got fed up and did some looking around. we also didn’t have a TV remote so we thought we were killing two birds. Turns out you can only copy IR commands from another source, so I hit the bullet and bought a cheap 7 dollar remote too to program it that way were just using one device for the bedroom TV.
I didn’t realize Valve released SteamOS to be installed on other devices, that’s killer! I just threw mint on a 15 year old laptop a few weeks ago and VNC into it from my phone to control it as my streaming box.
I think they still haven’t officially released it, despite promising years ago. There are community projects like HoloISO
They did release it but the latest iteration that’s on steam deck is still steam deck only, or shared via community projects like the one you mentioned
I’m using a N100 mini-PC with Kodi as a Media/TV Box and it works pretty much as a dedicated device would with one of these remotes.
I seldom have to actually access it with a keyboard and mouse, though that machine also works as my home server so I do regularly access it remotelly for stuff that has nothing to do with using it as a media box.
Oh that remote is not a bad idea, does it do mouse input via the circle d pad? Or is it keyboard only?
There’s a button there to enable/disable air-mouse functionality (basically the tilting of the remote moves the mouse pointer), though it’s awkward to use compared to a normal mouse.
The keyboard on the back is also awkward to use, not just because the keys are small and not quite in standard positions but also because Shift and Alt are both “press to enable, press to disable”, with no notification lights (so, say, your keyboard might be in “Alt mode” and you’re trying to used it and it’s just doing weird stuff).
The thing does work as a combo of media player remote + mouse + keyboard, but it’s not very practical for the last 2. Also that specific model seems to have problems with the remote buttons not working if the remote is tilted (which shouldn’t be at all a problem given that’s a wireless remote).
The idea is good, the implementation could be better. There are other models like that around. Just avoid the “Google” remotes as that’s Android-locked and for voice recognition (plus it comes pre-enshittified with only a handful of buttons which only start apps such as Netflix).
Even with the quirks of the remote, whilst using that setup I often find myself altogether forgetting that what I’m using there is a PC with Linux.
Honestly, the apple TV is the least spammy by a long shot. I also hear great things about the Nvidia shield, but it is pretty ancient by now. Or use a computer, but of course that’s got its own annoyances. Of course these are all the most expensive options, apparently for a reason.
It’s ancient, but in a way I respect Nvidia for not milking it by releasing a new version every year.
Its still a perfect decive. Fast, streams absolutely everything, amazing remote. I seriously don’t know what I would want from a new version
I’ve been using a Chromecast for years. I cast whatever I want from my phone. It plays media and that’s it.
The newer Chromecasts won’t even let you use your own DNS.
Buy an old used one off ebay or something, then. By the time they go so far out of support they stop working, I’m sure there’ll be a replacement.
It wasn’t out of support at the time, and I bought it before they gimped it. Google is actively preventing the use of Pihole or AdGuard by disabling the device if you redirect DNS queries away from their servers to your own.
I haven’t experienced this. I have the Chromecast with Google TV dongle and use a DST Nat to redirect all traffic from 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4 to my own DNS server.
I also did this with my old Chromecast only from phone version
Maybe I should have specifically mentioned that it’s the ultras.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Chromecast/comments/pmt4cw/chromecast_ultra_just_updated_and_now_wont_work/
https://xdaforums.com/t/chromecast-ultra-issue-with-custom-dns.4396853/
https://discourse.pi-hole.net/t/custom-dns-group-for-chromecast/50996
It’s a bit of niche arrangement, so finding out what happened when it suddenly stopped working was a challenge.
I wouldn’t bet on one of the biggest data harvesters not using a smart device to harvest data.
Join the darkside, and run something like a Raspberry Pi with Kodi, and/or Plex, etc.
The dark side is warm!
LibreELEC is basically a Linux distro with Kodi and installing it in one of those (or quite a number of supported similar boards, such as Orange Pis) should be the easiest way to “join the darkside”.
I use a rooted Xiaomi Mi Box 2S rooted and degoogled filtered by pi-hole and I only use stremio or jellyfin and smartube for youtube.
I bought an Apple TV after I had some smart tv related issues with my Samsung. I’m happy with it and it supports any app you’d want.
I usually hook my Steam Deck up to my TV via a USB hub and HDMI, and then fire something up on Plex, which I keep running on my desktop.
Bonus: Make it a wireless HDMI dongle (which I’m too cheap for but are a thing), and now using it from the couch is even more convenient.
Another chiming in on the best device by a long shot is the AppleTV. It’s damn fast and its UI is actually nice to use. Oh and all the apps are always up to date. Zero ads just sitting on the screen anywhere.
My main PC has HDMI directly to my TV because I’m not a desk gamer but my backup or when I’m using my PC heavy for something else, I have a ~4 year old flagship android phone with a USBC dock. It has a broken screen so no further mobile use but I could tape it to the back of my TV and have keyboard and mouse on android to do whatever and forget its back there.
Just plug in an Android streaming device and use Projectivity launcher.
Love this launcher
Or Flauncher
Nvidia Shield
This is the way
Apple TV has been reliable for many years. Don’t even have an iPhone or iPad anymore but the OS gets the fuck outta the way and it probably has the least spyware of all the commercial options.
Building your own with like, a Pi or a PC is the best option if you mainly have pirated content… If you stream anything that option isn’t great because your device won’t pass all the DRM checks to play higher definition/4k stuff. (Someone correct me but last I looked into it this was still true)
Yeah, streaming platforms are problematic even on Windows, nevermind Linux
I rooted my (Android TV based) smart TV, removed all the tracking (verified with PCAPDroid), and I use Stremio and SmartTube to stream everything. I also use AFWall as a firewall to whitelist only apps that I install to access the internet only through my VPN. I set my DNS to 0.0.0.0 to block all traffic outside of my DNS if my firewall ever fails because Android TV doesn’t have that option unlike regular Android.
I have a Hisense TV if you’re curious. You can also get a TV box that is supported by LineageOS and do the same thing on there.
Whenever Android 10 gets super outdated, I’m hoping that Plasma Bigscreen will be advanced enough to be able to replace it, then I will just use my laptop for TV activities instead. I also would need Linux to get better HDR support (currently it only supports HDR10 and not HDR10+ or Dolby Vision) and for AMD drivers to gain HDMI 2.1 support (which is being blocked by the HDMI forum for stupid reasons. The code has been ready for a while, but AMD isn’t allowed to release it)
But what device do you use to stream?
Raspberry Pi with a bare image of Android TV installed. The result is a Roku without any attempt to serve home screen ads.
Old laptop connected to tv through hdmi + cheapest wireless mouse I could find. If you want to get fancy you can also get a wireless keyboard but screen keyboard does a good enough job
If you want customization and the ability to sideload apps, get an Nvidia Shield. There are custom OSes you can load which remove a lot of the spammy ad BS that the Shield’s default OS has baked in.
If you want ease of use and setup, get an Apple TV. It won’t natively run all of your pirated hentai apps, but it at least has Plex so you can stream custom content from a server if you set one up.
You don’t even need a custom OS, just a custom launcher. I’m using FLauncher on mine. You can use
adbto disable the built-in launcher.
Never connected my LG TV to the internet. I got an Nvidia Shield TV Pro hooked up to it. The default home screen got riddled with ads as well after I got it, but at least you can change it to a third party one and never have to see it again. Otherwise a cheap used Xbox Series S might also work, but is much bigger and arguably less flexible. And if you want a truly privacy-respecting device you might have to go with a Linux mini PC, though that’s much more involved to set up and many commercial streaming services won’t give you the full quality streams you are paying for.
Nvidia shield with a custom launcher. Google updated their Android TV home which made 60% and More of the dashboard just ads so I added projectify as my launcher. There are now only 2 apps being shown on my screen. Plex and Google Play (for updating apps).
My TV has always been run without the “smarts” ever since I bought it.
That said, recently I’ve replaced my TV Box and Media Box with a N100 Mini PC running Linux and Kodi plus a wireless remote and in addition to that the thing even works as my home server with additional functionality than just that of the devices it replaced.
For a cheaper/easier option try LibreELEC on top one of the devices they support (check the downloads page or the Wiki for the list). It’s basically a Linux distro with Kodi, so open and with none of the privacy intrusion risks of Android. The same kind of wireless remote (example - note that you don’t actually need to use the keyboard on the back or the air mouse) also works here since it just relies on standard shortcut keys of media programs like Kodi so works everywhere (even Android).
However what all these privacy-protecting non-enshittified options have in common is that they’re not fully configured solutions that you just buy and use - as you’ve noticed, if you just buy a streaming stick or device it will likely be at the least “spammy” - and you do have to do some of the work to get them working.
Something like LibreELEC on a mini PC should be the simplest to put together as the hardware comes preconfigured in an actual box and all that’s needed is to install the LibreELEC image from a bootable USB stick, but if you have a bit more technical know-how (not really that much needed, mind you) you can get something like one of the supported Orange Pi boards along with a box for it and it will cost you less than half as much as even a basic Mini PC - those boards are basically using the same chips as Android TV media boxes so you get the same performance without the “spammyness”.
I’ve never given a tv my wifi password.
I’m not any techier than the average millennial. Maybe my trust issues are worse than average. I don’t regret my actions.
Also - my xbox one s may have streamed more video content than provided rocket leaguery…until I tripped on a cord…
Laptop now. Learning how to utilize these new capabilities.
What would you guys recommend for a dumb TV with a good quality panel in the 65-75" range that’s a available to buy in the EU? My intention is to hook it up to my own device (probably a mini PC running some Linux distro with Kodi and some other stuff).
Eizo or iiyama monitors are very good imo. The other use raspberry pi ( or anything else ) + tv card
Thanks. Anything more specific in mind? I know Eizo for their monitors for colour-critical work and from looking on their site I’m only able to find a 50 something inch model that’s probably very expensive (I think it was in their medical lineup). As for iiyama, they have some 65 and 75" models for e-signage, but they’re running Android.
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To dumb your TV, just don’t connect it to the internet. Get a SFF pc or something and use that to watch your series/movies. My TV functions as a monitor.
“CTV” is a new term that I wasn’t familiar with.
It’s also slightly confusing because CTV is a major TV station in Canada. I’ve never heard CTV to mean Connected TV.
I’m not even Canadian and the CTV television station is what came to mind. Have also never heard “CTV” to mean connected TV.
