Thank you for bringing more attention to the Jill Stein campaign
Hate to break it to you, but “any press is good press” is just copium. Especially when we’re talking about politicians not named Trump.
It’s nonsense to assume that every vote for Stein in 2016 would have voted for Clinton. Most exit polls showed that people who voted for Stein or Johnson would not have voted in the first place. Hillary was a losing candidate from the start.
The first time I voted, I cast it for our green party, not because I wanted them to win, but because I knew they wouldn’t win and my vote would have no effect on the outcome. I haven’t been paying much attention to politics at that point in time so I didn’t have an opinion on who should win. I just wanted to vote to understand how the process works.
But then I hear so many Trump voters would have voted for Bernie. So who is the real spoiler?
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Nobody ever claimed “everybody”, just the “enough”, and the data actually reflects that. Even if they didn’t vote, Clinton would’ve won.
I voted for Stein for 2016 (before we knew what we know now), and I voted for Howie Hawkins in 2020. But then I lived in New York, and I knew my vote wouldn’t matter, so I could vote my conscience without threatening the concept of democracy. This year I am in Florida, and I damn well fucking know I’m gonna vote for Kamala Harris and a straight democratic ticket below that. Because I understand the consequences of my actions.
Let us salute this brave soul who has moved to Florida.
God speed.
It was family stuff. I absolutely hate living here, I wanna get back to New York as soon as possible.
That sucks, mate.
Hope you are able to move back soon.
Nader is a mich better example. If 99% of the Florida Nader voters had stayed home and the remaining 1% voted for Gore, he would have won even with the Supreme Court’s decision to stop the recount.
Anybody who cares about Green policy should vote against Trump.
Logically, yeah.
But if these voters were logical they would realize the issue with FPTP voting systems and not fuck with 3rd parties in the first place.
At least not at the national level. Third parties do fairly well locally.
The ones that bother actually showing up. AKA not the Green Party.
Imagine supporting a political party so unappealing to a majority of the population, that you resort to blaming them when you don’t win.
Trump was appealing enough to win. Was it that he was actually good or are a good portion of voters just fucking idiots?
It is harder to get the bothsidesing done if you think of Repubs as having agency and responsibility for their actions, instead of believing only Dems do. Dems as a collective are also all as bad as their worst member, whom they are all actively colluding with. Repubs are just a few bad apples so we can interpret their actions individually.
Weak ACA is the Dems’ fault, Citizens United is the Dems’ fault, Donald is the Dems’ fault, Dobbs is the Dems’ fault, Chevron is the Dems’ fault.
This tbh, if we don’t want Green votes, make better reasons to them to vote the way you want them to vote. They vote green because they don’t agree with the other candidates. They should fix that instead of complaining about it.
Somehow “not facism” isn’t enough for some people
Bro the overly repetitive usage of that word won’t guarantee you the votes, and worst, may even deter people from voting
By most definitions (some require national malitia backing) it’s fascism. Why mince words or pretend the current rhetoric isn’t following the exact same route as previous iterations?
Funding genocide is fascist.
Fascism is fascism, not sure what you are on about. A vote for Trump or Jill is just a vote for genocide here with the rhetoric the right is currently spouting. But I guess fuck trans rights, immigrants, the climate, and the economy because your hill to die on is peace in the Middle East. JFC
I agree. Voting for Jill will fund the trashcan with one ballot. So I guess I’ll have to take the advice of Uncommitted and vote Harris because I am against Donald instead of for Harris.
Why do you think you had to resort to mental gymnastics there?
Why do you think Donald “finish them” “best King of Israel” “Biden is trying to hold Netanyahu back, he should be doing the opposite” Trump would be better for Gaza, or how do you think anyone other than Harris or Trump could become president, or how do you think that letting Trump win absolves you of complicity? Inaction is a moral choice, and it’s not like you haven’t been warmed that Trump is today the most fascist candidate this close to the presidency in our lifetimes.
The mental gymnastics of… listening to what Uncommitted has asked voters to do?
It’s literally not actually. All political ideologies are capable of genocide when taken to extremes, and many have done so. Colonial America, Stalinist Russia, too many absolute monarchies to count…none of those were fascist, but they were genocidal. We associate genocide with fascism because of the Holocaust, but they’re two different concepts.
Sure and maybe by not voting these people could’ve said “I wasn’t foolish, I was just lazy!”
But unfortunately for them, Jill Stein was on the ballot and they foolishly voted for her and here we are.
Good thing you don’t need to assume that every vote for Stein would have voted for Clinton… In Michigan, the number of Stein voters was ~5x the margin of victory. FIVE TIMES.
Dems pick garbage fascist candidates. Why blame voters for that?
And the republicans pick rational, honourable, sensible, caring and responsible candidates?
And 7 times the margin of victory left the presidential spot on the ballot blank in Michigan, if stein wasn’t on the ballot they would’ve just gone there. People did not like Hillary, blame her for that not stein.
Oh ð youngins hate ðis one.
Little shitstains become allergic to maþ ð red second it requires ðem to acknowledge shit like ðis or ðat Bernie was absolutely smacked by ð popular vote boþ times.
This thread mostly shows how broken the democratic system in the US is, not that she did anything wrong. Try coming to a real democracy with many parties and coalitions being formed. They actually thrive on dissent, finding compromise and collaborating for the greater good ;)
Her buddy Putin definitely doesn’t think she did anything wrong.
The fact that this thread replies to facts by going “b-but, Russia” like it’s still fucking 2016 is just peak political literacy from USians. Not only do they vote for candidates everyone hates, they get absolutely piss mad if a candidate tries to run on issues their voters believe in.
I thought the issue with reddit was that it was full of idiots and bots, turns out it was just full of Americans lmao.
Replace Stein with Trump and it’s still accurate.
Aside from having a friendly meal with Putin, I would say that disappearing for four years, only to suddenly show your face on election years to tear impressionable young, left-leaning voters away from a party that could actually win… that’s not a good thing.
If she, or her party, were for real, they wouldn’t disappear for four fucking years.
I just wish she, and all of her shills, would just crawl back into the hole they came out of. Hoping this happens in a couple of weeks when she inevitably falls off the face of the planet for another four years.
Interesting! I did not know any of this. Sort of confirms my impression which I should have framed differently: the other candidates are so niche that the rest of the world has no clue
What do you mean by disappear? Did Joe Biden disappear after Trump was elected only to show up and run for President? No it’s just that he didn’t have a job in politics so the media didn’t cover anything he was doing and he “disappeared”. If it wasn’t for the medias obsession with trump he probably would’ve disappeared in these last few years too. What do you expect a candidate whose not currently in office to do between runs that wouldn’t make them disappear?
She should work on building her party
She does, but this isn’t England there’s no mass party system where there is much off election work to do. If your party doesn’t have any representation then it’s job is to get representation, and the only time you can do that is during election periods, especially big ones like the presidential season. Even party’s that have representation do most of there work during the campaign season. The Democrats ramp up there work and engagement multiple times over leading into the election.
Tear impressionable young left-leaning voters from a party that could win
Kamala’s Gaza policy did that, stein is just picking up people who wouldn’t have voted any way or would’ve left President blank. The people voting for her aren’t stupid, they know she isn’t going to win, they’re voting for her because they don’t like Kamala and are trying to send her a message.
Biden has been a career politician for decades. He never left DC.
Stein on the other hand… Uh… What exactly does she do again?
I don’t disagree that it’s bad we can’t have third parties, but you need some qualifications to hold the office, and have more than one person at each level.
Hell, I’d argue Stein is less qualified than Trump because Trump has at least been in office once. Her presidency would be a clusterfuck of every other better political group steamrolling over her.
Here’s a deal for the Green Party: I will vote for you for president if you can manage to get a governor or senator elected.
Can we just say that, going forward, if you’re over 70, we don’t want you in ANY high pressure leadership role.
Your career is over. Shuffle the fuck off.
Pretending these elderly politicians weren’t elected in…
they were elected in like 40 years ago, then made it their career to stay there. so yeah, they may have won an election recently, but being an incumbent and household name in the area gives them a pretty massive advantage over anyone new running against them sadly.
This is about Stein and age in general, but let me say that, for example, I don’t fault Trump for being an absolute garbage person, statistically there will always be garbage people. It’s his supporters I take issue with. Nobody should be voting in incompetent or dangerous candidates, and if they are in a position of power, the average person is to blame.
you don’t fault trump for inciting an attempt to storm the capital, or the lies he’s told to vets, or the attacks he’s invited in minorities? there’s a long ass list of things that you should very much fault him for.
I understand what you mean, but still. the blame can be on a lot of people, such as the voters, trump himself, and the massive power structure of the gop behind him that’s been weaponizing voters for many many years.
She’s has experience going to Russia.
…At which she shared a table with Vladimir Putin and disgraced National Security Advisor Michael Flynn.
Takes a real and TRULY out of touch individual to drop “monotonicity paradox” with ZERO attempt at offering context to the reader - either this is an actual thing (in which case you’re an asshole) or it’s a full on fabrication (which would make you a liar).
Behavior, like what you’ve demonstrated here, is a phenomena all too easily explained by the Hammersmith Bongo Reversal, it’s supercilious proxy darvents and various derivative hyper dogmas.
lame
Fill in the blanks then.
just one ok? fight the antidemocratic electoral college unlike the democrats.
but sure after the election we will hear the democrats chip in again and talk about how bad it is for 3.5 years.
america is no democracy. the democratic party is part of the bigger problem…the voting system.
if kamala wins it will be the first time in what…25 years with no clinton or bush?!
and have the greens or jill stein harmed the democracy as much as the democrats? bernie was what people wanted, hillary is what the regine of the democratic party sent into the race and trump is what you got.
She has done as much to change the electoral college as you have.
Eagerly awaiting her next 4 year hibernation.
you got to let go buddy. the american draft of a democracy is outdated. and whats now happening to the republicans will happen to dems next: being split. liz cheney doesnt like the magas but that make them go away. unless you have a non democratic brain and think it will all go back to 2 parties. it wont. next is the democratic party being punished for what you fight for. greens will not go away. kisses to ralf nader for breaking up the murican pseudo democracy. so jill still did change the political landscape for the better even with shit politics.
They must still be typing, because so far they haven’t responded.
Hardest job in the world?
Given how big a shitshow the US is, it feels like it’s a much easier job than most leaders of state. I’d go as far as to say that if your platform isn’t one of complete reform (it never is) it’s probably one of the easiest jobs.
The US being a shit-show is exactly why this job is so hard. You’re constantly having to deal with political crap from Congress or the Supreme Court, state governors suing your administration whenever it does something they don’t like, opposition pundits calling for your impeachment, and that’s not even mentioning America’s foreign affairs. There’s a reason people call the president of the United States the “leader of the free world”.
The US has a geopolitical position to defend and it’s a never ending queue of foreign leaders clogging up your phone line and calendar book either threatening you or grovelling to you. And then there is the unique military position of being the commander-in-chief of the most powerful army in the history of mankind. So the president also has to attend military briefings, decide how to maintain and achieve the USA’s foreign policy objectives using that army, whether to intervene in foreign wars, and so on. The US just has their fingers in so many goddamn pies that the job of president is unbelievably stressful. Yes, you’re the most powerful man (or hopefully next year, woman) in the world, but with that immense power comes a humongous amount of responsibility. You could change the course of human history by merely scrawling some words on a piece of paper. You have the power to fuck up millions of people’s days across the world with a stroke of a pen or by shouting some words down a phone.
You have to contrast this role with the leader of a country that is comparatively geopolitically irrelevant—their foreign policy is probably limited to dealing with the regional counterparts and/or the leaders of the USA, China, or Russia. The President of the United States has to deal with every country in the world because if there’s one lesson we Americans will never learn, it’s to mind our own goddamn business.
Just look at Obama—the man turned from a young energetic candidate to a ready-to-retire late middle-aged man after just eight years in office. Meanwhile, the prime minister of a country like Singapore governed two decades and is still in good condition to continue a career in politics.
Mathematical likelihood of winning:
Lists of accomplishments?
Being only relevant a few months during election season.
“Hardest job in the world”?
please 🙄
Hardest job to actually do well?
Define “well”
dig a hole until you hit water
Every US presidential or congressional candidate need to hire interns to open up all the checks from aipac, for starters. And then they need to hire someone to watch those interns. And a full time nurse to treat paper cuts. Pretty soon its a staff of hundreds of people. These candidates arent going to ‘bribe themselves’ you know. This is big business.
I would’ve gone with “most important job in the nation,” personally.
That implies that youcan expect the US president to be able to do a good job. I’ve yet to hear from a president who actually did du a good job.
Maybe because it’s a hard job
No, I don’t think that the position is actually able to do good. You could say that being an emperor is hard, too. But I think that emperors are a bad thing to have.in general. Just like presidents.
I have an additional question: are you even old enough to vote?
What’s your point? If you want to say that anarchists are immature, then don’t be such a coward.
So, yes
But I think that emperors are a bad thing to have.in general. Just like presidents.
Why is that? And as a follow up, what would you have in its place?
What do you mean? Presidents or Emperors? Either way: monopolisation of power corrupts both the ruled and the rulers.
One example of an alternative: Democratic confederalism
Presidents don’t have a monopolization on power (in the US); they don’t get to unilaterally order anyone to do anything. The US has three governing bodies which are ideally supposed to balance each other out. Also, the US already had a confederacy, and it didn’t work out so well (even ignoring slavery).
This is beginning to look a lot like it relies upon human goodwill and good faith participation, and it appears like it would be easy to exploit by a bad actor feigning innocence; as we’ve seen throughout history, there’s no shortage of selfish opportunists.
There will always be a leader(s) at the top, even in a confederacy or a union. You need visionaries, and humans, like other apes, are naturally inclined towards having leaders and being told what to do (it saves mental energy for survival).
I’m not saying we should all be mindless slaves—even gorillas and chimps don’t have that—but the way you and others are describing it, it sounds like it isn’t offering anything particularly different than the failed US Confederacy, minus the impotent government at that time.
Anyway, I’ll check out the podcast you suggested. I’m always up for learning! Thanks for the replies, and have a nice day.
Not the same person, but my vote is for nothing. No government. Maybe a national workers council during the transition to no government. Before you ask, no capitalism either. Just a library economy with production managed by worker-led unions
I told you! We’re an anarcho-syndicalist commune! We’re taking turns to act as a sort of executive-officer-for-the-week–
It kind of sounds like a confederacy. Also, each union would have its leadership with someone or a few at the top, so what you’re advocating for is a confederation of smaller governing bodies, yes?
Also, this isn’t a gotcha, but how would you ensure certain unions don’t take advantage of their market position? Would there still be national regulatory bodies?
Don’t forget an endorsement from David Duke.
Don’t forget harris openly taking money from a supremacist organization: aipac.
thats… not how endorsements work. Endorsements dont imply any relationship.
I’m not saying that she isnt a peice of shit, she seems to be but we dont need to be making stuff up.I’m not making shit up.
https://democrats.org/news/former-kkk-leader-david-duke-endorses-jill-stein/
That doesn’t address what they said at all.
This should be the response to the comment from @[email protected]
Did Jill Stein disavow the endorsement? Stein’s campaign says it wants nothing to do with the former American Nazi Party member.
According to herself it doesn’t mean it isn’t concerning or that she didn’t earn it!
Yes, the third page of Google search says she did immediately. We should all be ask ourselves why and how this fact has been hidden in the conversations about this. Again, I’m not a Jill stein supporter, and I dont know if she’s a Russian puppet. attending a RT dinner is suspicious, assuming people and media outlets arent just lying about what the event was about. If true its disqualifying in my book. But this David Duke thing that you are accusing her of, she clearly isnt guilty of in the way you see it.
"Jill Stein
October 15 at 1:03 PM ·
A racist troll has “endorsed” our campaign to draw attention to himself, and certain smear merchants are happy to platform this troll to attack us. Of course, I reject any “endorsement” from a white supremacist like David Duke, unlike Kamala Harris who can’t stop bragging about her endorsement from white supremacist mass murderer Dick Cheney."
https://www.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1094219788739543&id=100044545954739&_rdr
Stein made a good point too about Dick Cheney. The guy is pure unfiltered evil and a war criminal, and everyone seems to have just sort of forgotten that.
https://jacobin.com/2022/01/dick-cheney-congress-capitol-riot-january-6
Their last line is “we don’t need to be making shit up” and the above poster showed that it was factual. It does address one part.
Not the first part about the mechanics of the endorsement but the final part, implying it’s a lie that David Duke endorsed Jill Stein for president.
yes and no. this guy endorsing her is because he realizes she is their best shot at getting Trump to win.
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There should be a third empty block detailing her campaign before September 2024, because that shit was non-existent.
Not true! Stein had a profound influence on the 2016 election, when she got more votes in Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin than Trump’s margin over Clinton in those states. That doesn’t necessarily mean her voters would have voted for Clinton, but getting Clinton voters was definitely her job.
Times like ðis ðat I really appreciate ð opportunity to prune ð latest ban/block dodging propaganda account weeds from my front page.
what the fuck is that symbol
it’s the International phonetic alphabet for the sound “th” in “the”, “this”, " there", “though”… my question is why the fuck is he using it?
It’s in ð IPA but it’s root is as an old germanic letter for ð sound, including in English.
As for ð why, I þink ð latin alphabet is maladapted for ð English language as it is currently spoken, and ðat older letters should be written back in.
I mean really I þink ð whole of English spelling should be orþographized, but outside of a chat where I know people are going to be able to read and understand a reformed spelling system, just using ð and þ where I’d speak the according sounds suffices for me :þ
Block me
Oh don’t worry. Everyone that’s seen whatever it is you typed has blocked you.
Cornel West 2024!
Trump Spoiler 2024!
