Some young American workers are moving to Europe in hopes of a healthier and happier life.
If only Europe wanted us there! If moving there were easy, I’d have done it years ago. Unfortunately, I probably need to wait until I retire.
just a heads up, retiring to europe is only possible in very few places and a few more if you’re loaded.
Yep. Focused on a Portuguese passive income visa. Portugal is beautiful
I’d do it if I could afford it or was younger. Honestly wish I had. The sacrifice now, with family and kids, is too massive.
You can get a new family and kids! Or bring em I guess
IDK, does the salary deficit makes up for it?
Depends entirely on your values and perspective
If you’re coming from the upper echelons of US income then it might not.
Otherwise you’ll potentially find the increase in quality of life to be significant.
Americans work too much, commute to much and don’t take enough holidays. Europeans work significantly less hours day to day, have significantly shorter commutes on average and have legally required and protected minimum annual leave that vastly outstrips US workers.
E.g. Take myself and a US friend in a very similar job into account. Yes he earns roughly double what I do.
- However I average 10-15 hours less work a week than he does.
- My commute is half what his is and I have actual public transport options that aren’t trash if my car broke down.
- I get 38 days of paid leave a year. 8 national holidays and the time between Christmas and Jan 1st by default… That leaves me with 27 days to use with some degree of freedom. He’s lucky if he takes ten days total per year.
- I get private healthcare but also know that if that was removed from my benefits I’d have access to state healthcare without the risk of bankruptcy.
Those listed things are just employment based. Culture is also a factor. I’ve never once worried about being shot in my entire life. Our food quality standards are higher whilst also costing significantly less. We don’t have the institutionalised national self delusion of tipping culture. Our religious and crazy right wing aren’t politically powerful enough to be dragging us kicking and screaming inti the 18th century like the US is. We aren’t completely and utterly dependent on cars, so being car free is a viable way to live.
My final note is this. I’m not some US hating zealot. I literally booked flights for a two week holiday in the US yesterday. I adore the NBA and find American people to be absolutely lovely on average. But I couldn’t live the way most Americans do.
What always seemed strange to me: Every single US-American I’ve ever personally met (in Europe or the US) has always been nothing but polite, helpful and friendly. But 300 million of them (mayby together with historcal ballast) create this political system that seems to be rather counterproductive for raising the average standard of living (emphasis on average, if you are in the top 10%, USA seems to be a nice place to be).
I do concede, that the average standard of living is still impressive, but the continual improvement of the 50s and 60s seems to have stopped
I cannot speak to what working in Europe is like, but as someone who works in the public sector in a very blue state, the work/life balance and benefits are unmatched. Yes, the pay is slightly less, but it is more than worth it imo if it means I only have to work 4 days and 35 hours a week, and not 6 days and 70 hours a week.
Coders in the US can make six figures easy. In Spain it’s like 20-40k, 60kish un Luxembourg if you’re a specialist and got a masters degree, etc. I’ve looked at the tech jobs in Europe in general and I’m unimpressed.
Rookie mistake is to look for coding jobs in Luxembourg, you earn 68k as a elementary school teacher
Yeah but I don’t have a uni degree or any credentials for anything. I currently get 84k just making websites. I don’t wanna stop everything I’m doing to go get a degree to them work for less iykwim
Wages in general are much better in the US. But then expenses also tend to be higher, not only health, even the tipping gets crazy expensive. But in the end it’s very personal, what makes you happy? Is it money? Being close to family? Being in your own country? For most people the move would be too troublesome to be worth it, I guess.
Wages in general are much better in the US. But then expenses also tend to be higher, not only health, even the tipping gets crazy expensive. But in the end it’s very personal, what makes you happy? Is it money? Being close to family? Being in your own country? For most people the move would be too troublesome to be worth it, I guess.
Wages in general are much better in the US. But then expenses also tend to be higher, not only health, even the tipping gets crazy expensive. But in the end it’s very personal, what makes you happy? Is it money? Being close to family? Being in your own country? For most people the move would be too troublesome to be worth it, I guess.
The way I do it is I put a price tag to any benefits I get. I’m currently in Europe but working remotely for Americans. But let’s say I were in the US. Let’s say I’m making six figures. Rent in Madrid or Paris is 1-2.6k for a flat. Rent in the US is maybe 3-4k for a flat. But in Madrid coding jobs are 1.5k-2.5k a month. In the US you get 7-12k a month with the same job. In Madrid you’re left with 500-1500 to live with and in California you’re left with 3-7k a month to live with. Let’s say your expenses are double, or even triple, in California than in Madrid. Let’s say you live in luxury, you spend 1k on food, 500 on clothes and 500 on transport and other expenses in California. You’re still left with 1-5k a month for savings. In Madrid you’re left with 0-900.
Even making a top salary and living frugally in Madrid won’t net you as much in savings as working in a us capital. And then when you want to retire your savings are worth the same anywhere in the world. You can go and retire in a Madrid town if you want. Your degree of comfort before may be the same, but you can save so much that I don’t see how it’s worth it to work for European companies if you’re able to work for American companies, whether living in Europe or in the US.
If you work for European countries you’re usually entitled for retirement money so you don’t have to save a huge amount (although the more the better obviously). I’m a programmer and I’ve stayed in many countries and travelled even more as some kind of a digital nomad. I’m about to move to spain because it’s just an awesome county with very nice people. Even though US companies are the top paying one, I’d never work for one as long as I can’t do it 100% remotely from Europe. I like travelling to the US a lot but I’m also very happy when I’m back in Europe.
Without an atom of doubt. I’ve experienced both, and I will make the choice of paycut again a hundred times if I had to choose again.
look at it this way, necessities in USA are largely out of reach (health care, education, housing, funded retirement) and luxaries are easy to come by (phones, sneakers, branded clothing, streaming etc).
Whereas in Europe, the necessities are much more attainable for the population at any income bracket. Do you have much more “free cash”? No. Do you need it? No, you have a social safety net.
Even vacas in Europe are cheaper bc for an American to travel to Europe is very expensive by means of airplane. In Europe you can take a high speed train and be in any climate.
On the topic of trains, Public transit is more efficient there than it is to drive cars in the states. Imagine not having to buy a ~$30k car every 10 years? Not to mention fuel and maintain it.
When America sends its people, they’re not sending their best.
I get the reference, youre not alone
As an American who has been abroad for many years, can confirm! I’m visiting the states at the moment and its crazy to hear a family member talking about trying to convince their boss that the employees should get five paid sick days a year instead of only three. Three! A year! Insane.
sick days even
Five!!!
insane
What are you supposed to do?
Turn up, shit yourself, keep helping customers?
Or do you turn up, shit yourself, then get fired?
Ok, but what matters is your turned up /s
Last year was super shitty, I had COVID twice and Shingles with nerve pains, I’ve been on sick leave for more than a month over the year, it would have been a disaster without socialized healthcare and workers’ insurance
I vacationed in Germany recently. Something about it just felt right… But it would be hard to be so far from my family, and probably harder to make friends or find a church. :(
There’s plenty of churches. If you live in a city there are usually many churches to choose from.
We have tons of churches in the States, too, it’s a matter of finding one that’s not weird politically, promoting nationalism or the equivalent of US far-right crazy.
Church? Easy. Catholic in the South, EKD in the North, take it or be a weirdo cultist. Orthodox is acceptable.
In Germany you can make your own!
Just attach some Theses on a church’s doors and see what happens.
This gave me a good chuckle…
If only they would leave their political affiliations and a few bad bits of their culture in the US too, that’d be great. They’re otherwise very welcome here, as is anybody else who wants to embrace the European lifestyle and integrate, Iranian, Afghan, Australian, Kenyan, Brazilian, Turkish, whatever.
Muss gerade an diesen Bericht von kürzlich denken, ebenfalls vom glorreichen Business Insider:
https://www.businessinsider.com/us-germany-relocation-american-move-disappointing-2023-6
Lustiger Kontrast.
Was für ein dämlicher Artikel. Wäh, wäh, ich wohne in einem kleinen Dorf und habe nicht Zugang zu allen Modern conveniences wie in einer grossen Stadt. Wäääh… Echt, jetzt?
Mein Highlight war dass sie einen schlechten job hat bei dem sie in einer schwachen Währung Geld verdient aber Deutschland ist teuer.
Haha genau das habe ich beim lesen gedacht. “Warum hilft mir denn keiner? Ich vermisse Walmart!” lol
Generell lustiger Artikel, danke.
“We live in a small German town called Otterberg” had me laughing out loud.
I was wondering where she could be living - maybe Munich or some other city in Bavaria, where people are not exactly known for warming up easily on foreigners (read: people from more than 20 minutes away). But no - she’s living in Otterberg. Hilarious.
Moving abroad is always challenging and not for everyone, some people can’t adapt to a different way of life.
America becoming a third world country.
Always was
(••) (••)>⌐■-■ (⌐■_■)
If you understand that the high salary is to meet the high cost of living in the United States then you’ll understand that it isn’t a pay cut. Take that one step further and consider the fact that the higher cost of living does NOT come with a higher quality of life in the US.
I’m bitter because I was never well off enough to escape to Europe. Best I could do is maliciously complying with USA capitalism and becoming an anti-consumer
I went as a student (free university!) and managed to stay.
If I had the money, I’d be running for Europe right now. America has gone to shit and it is only going to get worse from here
My boyfriend only has a year left of nursing school. With so many countries having a shortage, we are thinking that might help us. Like apperantly in Japan they have a program to get people in for nursing and you can buy a house for cheap. But I’m not sure if I want to love in Japan. About 3-4 months ago I actually had some people from Australia on reddit giving me a lot of good info to help us get over there, and one person was talking to me about New Zealand.
So here’s to hoping. I’m gonna miss my family and friends. It’s gonna be hard, but I’m tired of this place.
Don’t worry. It’s also going to shit on this side of the pond.
It seems to be going to shit in most of the world these days. The fight for freedom and against consolation of power is a never-ending fight.
The future still seems better in western/northern Europe than the US.
The paperwork and logistics is going to be a bitch, but if you can start looking for a job in Europe from your current location, the move itself might be less expansive than you expect.
See, that’s the thing. I’m in film and my goal is to parlay this work into a work visa in Europe for this exact reason. I love my work, but I want benefits and protections that just aren’t afforded me here (because my particular Union in my area is problematic as fuck, not to mention hard to break into). But my concern is how this even gets done.
The US has made it very difficult for citizens of other countries to get paperwork to live and work here, so we see a lot of reciprocation in level of difficulty to leave this place. I wish I could get someone to give me some info on the process that’s been through it
Be aware that a lot of US studios love to shoot in Germany, because our unions in the film business are non existent and they can shoot longer and pay less in Germany.
I lived in Italy for two years and would love to go back someday.
I’m approaching the end of a four-year stay in Italy, and I’m considering chaining myself to a fence post or something. The country is a mess, but the quality of life just cannot be beat.
A lady I work with in the Netherlands sent me an email Friday. I responded and got an OOTO message saying she’s out till 7/31
Definitely jealous
I’m in Asia and receive OOTO emails all the time, meanwhile we work even during holidays 🙃. A co worker is a Chilean, and during her 3 weeks leave to go back home after years of not taking any leave, she worked day and night, slept only 3 hours the whole stay. We Asians were successfully brainwashed into the hustle culture
It’s a thing I like about Germans. They tend to be more strict about working hours than other EU countries, let alone somewhere like America.
I worked in the Netherlands for a while, and we’d get loads of German visitors. When we were nearing closing time, we’d often have German visitors going “It’s his ‘Feierabend’(end of day). He can’t help you anymore”. Especially when they had a problem that would last till after closing time to solve. And then when you told them “no, no. It’s fine.” they were genuinely grateful. They didn’t expect you to work, when you were no longer being paid to.
You shift starts. You work. Your shift ends. You are no longer working.
The unsurprising result: experts often say German workers outperform American workers. Turns out strictly enforcing working hours, allowing workers to recuperate when they’re not on shift, means they end up working harder when they are on shift.
I worked for the US division of a German company and found that the culture even for the US workers was very respectful of time off and appropriate working hours. I hated the job because I was customer facing and our customers were typically large US companies, but the German company was a great company to work for.
Damn, isn’t 8 years a bit much?
Dunno. Could be 9 years and then I’d be in trouble
I mean. At least the americans speak and write the better english. There’s just something about british pronunciation and spelling which makes it feel ugly.
