• anarcho_blinkenist [none/use name]
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    207 months ago

    Reminds me of that Frankie Boyle bit

    American foreign policy is horrendous 'cause not only will America come to your country and kill all your people, but what’s worse I think, is that they’ll come back 20 years later, and make a movie about how killing your people made their soldiers feel sad~ boo hoo~

    Americans making a movie about what Vietnam did to their soldiers is like a serial killer telling you what stopping suddenly for hitchhikers did to his clutch.

  • zaza [she/they/her]
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    7 months ago

    Idk I personally can empathize with people that have been forced by the Zionist regime to indiscriminately kill civilians “for the greater good” without necessarily blaming the individuals themselves…

    Like I don’t question there are IOF soldiers that are bloodthirsty and see Palestinians as less than human target practice - but I also doubt that a person that experiences severe PTSD and takes their own life was like “hell yeah let’s bulldoze some Palestinian kids!1!” - I think this just shows that while the Zionist genocidal machine massively harms Palestinians first and foremost - it also has a detrimental effect on its own citizens (see Vietnamese war veterans) - so while it may seem “just” to clown on the puppets carrying out the genocide on the ground - some of them are still just mislead people that have been fed on an abundant diet of hasbara 🤷🏽‍♀️

    • FALGSConaut [comrade/them]
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      97 months ago

      Naw they always have a choice. That one person who ran a Taylor Swift fan account took a moral stance and is braver than 100% of any of the cowards in the IOF.

      Every single IOF troop could get hamas-red-triangle or officer-down and I wouldn’t shed a tear

    • AssortedBiscuits [they/them]
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      7 months ago

      but I also doubt that a person that experiences severe PTSD and takes their own life was like “hell yeah let’s bulldoze some Palestinian kids!1!”

      I dunno, he sounded pretty fucking happy to me bulldozing Palestinian homes with a shit-eating grin. Just laughing it up with his fellow genocider and appearing on talk shows to brag about bulldozing 5000 Palestinian homes. But it stopped being so funny when his partner-in-genocide got liquidated by the Resistance.

      Hope his suicide was one of those botched hangings where the hanged suffocates for hours before finally dying.

    • Belly_Beanis [he/him]
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      27 months ago

      This is nazi apologia. I mean like actual, 1945, “guards at Auschwitz” nazis. A lot of Germans developed psychological problems due to their crimes against humanity. It’s why they created death camps. And they all claimed they were “…just following orders.” Many more claimed it was a “necessary evil to eliminate the Judeo-Bolshevik hordes.”

      Despite all this, nazis still got hanged after the war (especially if they were caught by the soviets). We can list Germans who didn’t commit atrocities or actively fought against the genocide being carried out. There’s hundreds of them listed on Wikipedia alone. The Germans knew what they were doing was wrong. They ignored morality because they wanted an excuse to steal from and kill their neighbors.

    • somename [she/her]
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      137 months ago

      No. That’s bullshit. You can fully blame them. Nothing forced them to serve in the IOF.

        • CindyTheSkull [she/her, comrade/them]
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          37 months ago

          I guess I’m just worried we’re falling in the same trap of painting all Israelis as bloodthirsty monsters - instead of acknowledging that some of them are just normal people that have been duped by the Zionist state into committing atrocities against their fellow humans and that black and white thinking only serves to uphold this cycle of hatred. (literal example from this very thread)

          Duped into committing atrocities. Duped into committing atrocities. Those poor saps were just mislead into committing crimes against humanity, literal torture upon children. Your logic here is that we shouldn’t paint them all as bloodthirsty monsters since some of them were “duped” into being… well, bloodthirsty monsters. Regardless of how they arrived there, that still makes them bloodthirsty monsters!

          You are what you do. It doesn’t matter whether or not someone was “duped” into believing the obvious lie that a Palestinian’s life isn’t worth as much as theirs, or that they were “duped” into committing (or even just supporting) atrocities. They still did those things. Those who were the victims of those atrocities are no less victims, no better off just because one or two of the perpetrators were “duped” into mercilessly murdering entire families. At this point, anyone who identifies as an Israeli but who is not actively fighting against Zionism and all who support it then they well deserve the title of bloodthirsty monster. They deserve far worse than just a label, honestly.

          So no, we’re not “falling in to the same trap” of painting with too broad of a brush, we’re recognizing actual material reality. We’re recognizing the material consequences of Zionism and correctly concluding what must happen to Zionism itself. This isn’t black and white thinking, to the contrary it is recognizing the very real nuances that differentiate the colonizers from the colonized, and it is doing so without falling into the idealist trap that you have that leads down the same road as “well those Nazi concentration camp guards, hey some of them were just normal people trying to make the best of a bad situation.” As usual, the problem is not that we as communists are failing to see that these monsters are human too, it’s the liberal who fails to see that “normal humans” can and do become monsters. And whether or not one did so with giddy abandon or because their mind was already rotted to the extent that they believed (were “duped” by) propaganda telling them that they were righteous for trying to wipe out all Palestinian children, it doesn’t fucking matter. Functionally, they are monsters.

      • miz [any, any]
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        7 months ago

        per a recent article posted here from an “Israeli” media source, the IOF isn’t even enforcing rules against desertion

    • hotcouchguy [he/him]
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      57 months ago

      To a small degree maybe, but I imagine if you’re not enthusiastic about killing children you get shuffled off to some other role reasonably quickly. As an institution they’re motivated to match the real bloodthirsty psychos with the hands-on jobs, and give the genocide-support roles to the squeamish ones.

  • plinky [he/him]
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    7 months ago

    Israeli warcriminals, don’t be cowards, shoot your hq in blaze of glory some measure of justice

  • WhatDoYouMeanPodcast [comrade/them]
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    227 months ago

    07 to the brave Palestinian freedom fighters who continued resisting from beyond the grave for their success. I hope this sort of thing keeps happening - I support it.

  • ComradeSharkfucker
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    327 months ago

    I have no sympathy for ex-IOF unless they are ex-IOF because they fragged their superior officers

  • vegeta1 [he/him]
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    287 months ago

    This is like those Hollywood movies that always say how hard it is for the American soldiers who slaughter hundreds.

    • anarcho_blinkenist [none/use name]
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      7 months ago

      yeah I commented above before I saw this it’s the same trend as that Frankie Boyle joke

      American foreign policy is horrendous 'cause not only will America come to your country and kill all your people, but what’s worse I think, is that they’ll come back 20 years later, and make a movie about how killing your people made their soldiers feel sad~ boo hoo~

      Americans making a movie about what Vietnam did to their soldiers is like a serial killer telling you what stopping suddenly for hitchhikers did to his clutch.

    • ComradeSharkfucker
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      217 months ago

      There are roughly 12 Israeli anarchist who use themselves as human shields in some capacity (according to badempanada, I have not checked this info) so not every Israeli. However, 12/9,425,624 or 0.000127% is actually much more damning than anything. Regardless those roughly 12 Israelis are cool with me, everyone else though… shit gets complicated

      • bbnh69420 [she/her, they/them]
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        207 months ago

        There was the guy and photographer who got detained and interrogated by the idf, he shows up to video settlers when they’re attacking Palestinians. So a literal handful of good Israelis

        • spectre [he/him]
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          127 months ago

          I’ve seen a bunch of orthodox get beat up by IDF for protesting the war. Not sure where they are as far as direct action but wanted to give it a shout out at least.

            • spectre [he/him]
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              37 months ago

              Ah I see, well give them the credit even if it doesn’t save them from the pit.

    • Erika3sis [she/her, xe/xem]
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      157 months ago

      My first temptation was to say “JK Rowling writing a Jewish character ass name”, too, but apparently Mizrahi has been a fairly common (or at least not unheard of) surname for centuries. Wikipedia seems to indicate that Mizrahi is most often a Sephardic surname — originally pointing to someone who arrived to Iberia from the east — however it seems like there are also a number of actual Mizrahim with the surname Mizrahi, interestingly, including a number of American Jews of Middle Eastern descent. The most famous person named Mizrahi appears to be Elijah Mizrachi (1455-1525), author of The Mizrachi, a very creatively titled supercommentary on Rashi’s commentary on the Torah. There was apparently also an Egyptian Olympic fencer in the 1920s named Joseph “Jack” Mizrahi, who I am very curious about now.

      So in hindsight, you know, I don’t know if Jenny Mizrahi actually chose that name in the same way as Bibi’s dad was born Mileikowsky, or if ol’ Jenny was like born in Seppoland and was given a typical Anglo forename with the inherited surname Mizrahi. But you know, in any case, with that added context, “Jenny Mizrahi” seems only as silly a name as like, I dunno, Jason Costello or something.

  • LeninsBeard [he/him]
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    537 months ago

    Fanon right again

    His superiors refused to give him sick leave, and since moreover the patient did not wish to have a psychiatrist’s certificate, we tried to give him treatment “while working full time.” The weaknesses of such a procedure may easily be imagined. This man knew perfectly well that his disorders were directly caused by the kind of activity that went on inside the rooms where interrogations were carried out, even though he tried to throw the responsibility totally upon “present troubles.” As he could not see his way to stopping torturing people (that made nonsense to him for in that case he would have to resign) he asked me without beating about the bush to help him to go on torturing Algerian patriots without any prickings of conscience, without any behavior problems, and with complete equanimity.

    • anarcho_blinkenist [none/use name]
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      7 months ago

      Fanon right again

      Many such cases. I’ve said it many times and will never stop, The Wretched of the Earth (pdf DL link) is fundamental required reading for anyone in a colonialist or colonized country (or both, in the case of settler-colonies). It is absolutely critical for a material understanding, and Fanon being a professional doctor and psychologist as well as a Marxist gives incredibly valuable foundational insights to not only a dialectical and historical materialist analysis of the material conditions, relations, and struggles in and against colonialism, but also of the superstructural political, social, cultural, and psychological outcroppings from the colonial relation and their mutual interpenetration and cyclical reinforcement.

      It is also the direct theoretical lineage of so many liberation struggles which came after, including in the US with the BPP and BLA; and so it is quite literally necessary, in general and in particular in the places which inherited the legacy of those Fanonist struggles, for one to engage with in order to not be speaking nonsense about colonialism and the colonial relations which exist, and the contradictions and struggles therein. Fanon is no lesser than what Malcolm X was to the heart of the struggle and its history and theoretical body of work.

      From there the next step is reading the criticism and self-criticism and analytical adaptations from the experiences and lessons of those struggles (Huey Newton, George Jackson, Maroon Shoatz, and newer generations such as Kevin Rashid Johnson), which are also necessary because their knowledge derives from practice and its lessons better than anyone who has not this experience. As Mao wrote in On Practice:

      Marxists hold that man’s social practice alone is the criterion of the truth of his knowledge of the external world. What actually happens is that man’s knowledge is verified only when he achieves the anticipated results in the process of social practice (material production, class struggle or scientific experiment). If a man wants to succeed in his work, that is, to achieve the anticipated results, he must bring his ideas into correspondence with the laws of the objective external world; if they do not correspond, he will fail in his practice. After he fails, he draws his lessons, corrects his ideas to make them correspond to the laws of the external world, and can thus turn failure into success; this is what is meant by “failure is the mother of success” and “a fall into the pit, a gain in your wit”. The dialectical-materialist theory of knowledge places practice in the primary position, holding that human knowledge can in no way be separated from practice and repudiating all the erroneous theories which deny the importance of practice or separate knowledge from practice. Thus Lenin said, "Practice is higher than (theoretical) knowledge, for it has not only the dignity of universality, but also of immediate actuality." The Marxist philosophy of dialectical materialism has two outstanding characteristics. One is its class nature: it openly avows that dialectical materialism is in the service of the proletariat. The other is its practicality: it emphasizes the dependence of theory on practice, emphasizes that theory is based on practice and in turn serves practice. The truth of any knowledge or theory is determined not by subjective feelings, but by objective results in social practice. Only social practice can be the criterion of truth. The standpoint of practice is the primary and basic standpoint in the dialectical materialist theory of knowledge.

      If one could hypothetically only read one thing about colonialism, the Wretched of the Earth would be firmly at the top of the list I give them. There is also Orientalism by Edward Said which is too invaluable for those in “the west”, but is more of a broad-focused general deconstruction of the historical notions of “the west” and “the east” and such politically-charged and inherently violent concepts as “western values” (as opposed to the values of these ‘others’) which Fanon touches on in its specific relations and expressions in colonialism, but Said does more broadly in its superstructure and relation to its base in the roots from whence it arose and was constructed out of the dialectical relationships of the history of europe, and of imperialism and colonialism, etc. It is more of a deconstruction through historical and dialectical materialist analysis of the broader history and concepts in and out-of-from “orientalism” than acting as a direct foundational analysis of and for the specific struggles which have been carried out as the Wretched of the Earth has.

  • Lovely_sombrero [he/him]
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    7 months ago

    “There is no such thing as Palestinian citizens.”

    Maybe this is just because of the weird translation, but I’ve seen this a lot. Rights aren’t inherent to humans, they come from the state. And if Palestinians don’t have a state to protect them, or if they live in a state (Israel) that doesn’t want to protect them, we can just kill them all.

    • MalarchoBidenism [he/him]
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      157 months ago

      Can’t speak for this example in particular, but they definitely do believe that. That’s why they think “there was never a state of Palestine” is a good argument for Zionism. The lines on the ground matter more to them than the rights of the people who lived there.